Hollow Knight

[Ganepark32]

As this is finally out courtesy of a Saturn drop following Nintendo's E3 Direct, I thought it was worth creating a thread for what is a spectacular game.

It's a metroidvania style game, leaning more on the Metroid side of things, with a fantastic visual style, great soundtrack and brilliant gameplay. And it's an absolute steal at £10.99 on the eshop, with all current DLC and the final one coming later this year.

Team Cherry have done a fantastic job at bringing the game to the Switch. I've been playing it docked and it runs silky smooth so far. There are some areas when I played in the PC that suffered from some lag due to what was in those areas do it'll be interesting to see if the Switch version dodges that or not. So yeah, kudos to Team Cherry (and Shark Jump who helped) for bringing the game over to the Switch.

There's a nice challenge with the game; in both playing it on the PC and now the Switch, I've never felt that it was too difficult but does offer up a decent challenge as you progress through certain areas. And I love the mechanic of being able to retrieve your ghost if you can navigate back to it and defeat it. If not, you lose all of your coins.

I've managed to get back to roughly where I was on the PC version now and I'm pressing on to see what else lies within Hallownest.

Really interested to hear the thoughts of those playing it. I'd certainly put it in a similar level to the likes of Guacamelee and Ori and the Blind Forest for how good the game is. Can't recommend it enough.

[Grazza]

I've been playing it since last night, and it certainly is the real deal.  Whether it will become a personal favourite of mine, I don't know, but it does feel like the most accomplished indie Metroidvania so far.  The art style is so slick and the tone so unusual, it really does comes across as original.  I've very little idea what the story is about, or really what the game entails, which adds an air of mystery.

 

The level of challenge is also pretty high, in that exploration always takes your full concentration.  Wouldn't want to press on too fast and miss a save point (the game is very mean with maps!) Haven't played enough to be sure what I think overall, but it's definitely worth the £10.99.

[Ronnie]

It sounds like much like Shovel Knight and Stardew Valley, the game is worth a lot more than the price tag

[Hero-of-Time]

8 hours ago, Grazza said:

The level of challenge is also pretty high, in that exploration always takes your full concentration.  Wouldn't want to press on too fast and miss a save point (the game is very mean with maps!) Haven't played enough to be sure what I think overall, but it's definitely worth the £10.99.

This is my biggest issue with it so far. I'm finding the areas a bit too large for my liking and as such I think it's easy to get lost, especially if you haven't found the map for said area. Most of the Metroid style games that I have enjoyed in the past are the ones that have smaller areas and are a tad bit more linear. The ones I dislike are the ones that are too big for their own good. I'm hoping that Hollow Knight doesn't end up being the latter but at the moment it's not exactly winning me over, which is a shame considering how excited I was to finally play it.

[MindFreak]

3 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

This is my biggest issue with it so far. I'm finding the areas a bit too large for my liking and as such I think it's easy to get lost, especially if you haven't found the map for said area. Most of the Metroid style games that I have enjoyed in the past are the ones that have smaller areas and are a tad bit more linear. The ones I dislike are the ones that are too big for their own good. I'm hoping that Hollow Knight doesn't end up being the latter but at the moment it's not exactly winning me over, which is a shame considering how excited I was to finally play it.

Yeah, I agree a little, it's easy to get lost. Getting the map and compass help a lot, though, but I wish there was fast travel.

I die a lot, it's actually harder than it looks, especially the combat, meeting a new enemy almost certainly kills me because they act differently all the time. I'm getting the hang of it, though. I'm about three hours in, having defeated two real bosses and been to three places. The vibe of the game is fantastic and it runs smoothly. 

[Ganepark32]

43 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

Yeah, I agree a little, it's easy to get lost. Getting the map and compass help a lot, though, but I wish there was fast travel.

I die a lot, it's actually harder than it looks, especially the combat, meeting a new enemy almost certainly kills me because they act differently all the time. I'm getting the hang of it, though. I'm about three hours in, having defeated two real bosses and been to three places. The vibe of the game is fantastic and it runs smoothly. 

There's fast travel in the game. You can find Stag beetle stations where you pay a small toll (50 Geo or so) then ring a bell and you can fast travel between regions and Dirtmouth. IIRC, the first one you can find is not far from the first boss, in the same area as a bench (it's to the left of this).

I had a frustrating go this morning. In an area I'd not been in previously and was struggling to work out how to progress. Died and then died again and lost the 1000+ Geo I'd collected and eventually figured out that there was a room where I'd gone right but not left  going that direction put me where I needed to go. Clearly needing more sleep 

@Hero-of-Time, hopefully it starts to gel a bit more for you. I remember feeling well out of my depths when I first played it and even now I still am, as evidenced by my play this morning. I'd definitely recommend buying the compass and the thing that lets you see where you are on the map as aids to start if you haven't already. Even then, I do agree it's all to easy to lose your way. It's very much reminding me of Ori and the Blind Forest in that respect in how areas seem to blend together and so it's hard to figure out where you are. I do like having the map a quick button press away to help offset that some what. Hopefully it gets better for you.

[MindFreak]

43 minutes ago, Ganepark32 said:

There's fast travel in the game. You can find Stag beetle stations where you pay a small toll (50 Geo or so) then ring a bell and you can fast travel between regions and Dirtmouth. IIRC, the first one you can find is not far from the first boss, in the same area as a bench (it's to the left of this).

Oh, I menat true fast-travel. Instant. Where you don't have to go to a specific place that can be a bit far from here you are.

Hmm. You lost your 1000 Geo? You just have to kill the ghost of you in the room you died to get them back, you know that right? It's even marked on the map with two white dots.

Edited June 14, 2018 by MindFreak

[Ganepark32]

17 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

Oh, I menat true fast-travel. Instant. Where you don't have to go to a specific place that can be a bit far from here you are.

Hmm. You lost your 1000 Geo? You just have to kill the ghost of you in the room you died to get them back, you know that right? It's even marked on the map with two white dots.

Yeah, but I'd managed to fudge my way into an area I wasn't ready to be in and died a second time in my way to collecting my body so had to say bye to all that coin. That'll teach me for trying to go somewhere I shouldn't be without the right skills or more health.

Not really a spoiler but I'd gotten into:

Spoiler

Fog Cavern by jumping on the big bug in the Greenlands area and taking damage to jump me over a gap. And then the big jelly fishes death throw took me out both times.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Ganepark32

[MindFreak]

4 minutes ago, Ganepark32 said:

Yeah, but I'd managed to fudge my way into an area I wasn't ready to be in and died a second time in my way to collecting my body so had to say bye to all that coin. That'll teach me for trying to go somewhere I shouldn't be without the right skills or more health.

Not really a spoiler but I'd gotten into:

  Location spoiler (Hide contents)

Fog Cavern by jumping on the big bug in the Greenlands area and taking damage to jump me over a gap. And then the big jelly fishes death throw took me out both times.

 

I did the exact same thing!! Didn't die though so ent back and died just before the entrance instead.

[Grazza]

6 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

This is my biggest issue with it so far. I'm finding the areas a bit too large for my liking and as such I think it's easy to get lost, especially if you haven't found the map for said area. Most of the Metroid style games that I have enjoyed in the past are the ones that have smaller areas and are a tad bit more linear. The ones I dislike are the ones that are too big for their own good. I'm hoping that Hollow Knight doesn't end up being the latter but at the moment it's not exactly winning me over, which is a shame considering how excited I was to finally play it.

 

I agree.  In fact, this game reminds me of Super Metroid rather than Fusion or Zero Mission, which will be music to the ears of some, but not to me.  I've defeated two bosses so far.  By this point in Fusion I'd have got into a good rhythm of upgrading my missiles and energy tanks, but in Hollow Knight, I still don't feel very capable.

 

Also, I don't want people to think there's something wrong with my eyes after what I said about Battle Chasers, but a pet peeve of mine is "arty" lighting in modern games that doesn't aid visibility.  Only the area around the player character is well illuminated, and I've fallen into many a pit by just not seeing them until it was too late.  It's not like I can't see it at all, but you have to concentrate too much.

 

2 hours ago, Ganepark32 said:

I had a frustrating go this morning. In an area I'd not been in previously and was struggling to work out how to progress. Died and then died again and lost the 1000+ Geo I'd collected and eventually figured out that there was a room where I'd gone right but not left  going that direction put me where I needed to go. Clearly needing more sleep 

 

It does seem to be a strong characteristic of this game.  The difference between left and right can be crucial, but there aren't usually any subtle clues as to which one is best.

[bob]

Up until about 30 seconds ago, I thought this was DLC or a sequel to Shovel Knight, but it isn't is it?

[Grazza]

Anyone else ploughing on with this?  Although I do think there are issues with the save points and overall design, there's a great sense of satisfaction when you complete a section.  I feel like I've completed about five zones, but only defeated the bosses of two.  It's a strange game, but the general high quality of it has me coming back to get as far as I can.

[MindFreak]

Yup, about 14 hours in at this moment. I'll just spoiler-tag my progress.

Spoiler

Well, I've defeated some more bosses and opened up a lot of areas - currently exploring Deepnest since I bought the lamp. It helps a bit with it. 

I stumbled upon Soul Master at some point but had to give up as he was simply too strong for me at that time. Got another piece of health, some more soul and got better at the game and was then able to defeat it after a couple of tries. Also found and defeated Mantis Lord which was a very satisfying fight!

I've got the second upgrade for my sword which helps a lot but now I need more notchoes - I've got 4 which is not much when I've got so many charms that I'd like to equip.

I have bought everything that I can at this point and have to carry around a ton of cash at the moment. That's a bit worrying I think - and the banker has gone, apparently. With the money that I deposited! That bastard.

Overall, I understand the praise of the game, the atmosphere is amazing and the game is generally satisfying and well thought out. However, checkpoints are too far between, which may be intentional but it's still irritating - especially if you die in a place where you haven't found the bench and didn't just sit on the nearest bench before said area, then you have to go through a lot to get back again.

Fast-travel is nice but again too far between. 

Also agree with @Grazza about the darkness, it's overall a bit dim - but not as much as Battle Chasers. The lamp also helps on this.

Edited June 17, 2018 by MindFreak

[Ganepark32]

I've put in about 12 hours or so now and it's become more about the small victories for me as I try to figure out how I get to the locations I need to get to.

Spoiler

I need to find my way to the 3 Dreamers but for the life of me, I can't seem to get to where they are. Some paths are still inaccessible to me and despite a lot of exploring, I'm yet to find ways round these inaccessible routed or powers that let me circumvent them.

Have managed to get the Monarch Wings this afternoon so with the charged dash move, I've unlocked the Great Slash attack and another which lets me use souls to cause a ghostly explosion around me, with this able to replenish the souls I used up if it defeats enemies.

I just need to find out how to access the Dreamers. I've only one path not accessed in the City of Tears but I can't figure it out. Likewise for the other two. Can't get round the barrier for the map guy, Cornifer, in the Fog Caverns either. That would help a bit in finding my way to one of the Dreamers.

Despite my frustrations as trying to figure out how to get places, I'm still very much enjoying things. The difficulty is just right for me and while I agree that a better fast travel system would be better, I get why they've used the system they have. It can be inconvenient but once you've learned a route, even without the map, it's still relatively quick to get back to places once you die.

[MindFreak]

1 hour ago, Ganepark32 said:

I've put in about 12 hours or so now and it's become more about the small victories for me as I try to figure out how I get to the locations I need to get to.

  Progress so far (Reveal hidden contents)

I need to find my way to the 3 Dreamers but for the life of me, I can't seem to get to where they are. Some paths are still inaccessible to me and despite a lot of exploring, I'm yet to find ways round these inaccessible routed or powers that let me circumvent them.

Have managed to get the Monarch Wings this afternoon so with the charged dash move, I've unlocked the Great Slash attack and another which lets me use souls to cause a ghostly explosion around me, with this able to replenish the souls I used up if it defeats enemies.

I just need to find out how to access the Dreamers. I've only one path not accessed in the City of Tears but I can't figure it out. Likewise for the other two. Can't get round the barrier for the map guy, Cornifer, in the Fog Caverns either. That would help a bit in finding my way to one of the Dreamers.

Despite my frustrations as trying to figure out how to get places, I'm still very much enjoying things. The difficulty is just right for me and while I agree that a better fast travel system would be better, I get why they've used the system they have. It can be inconvenient but once you've learned a route, even without the map, it's still relatively quick to get back to places once you die.

Spoiler

I haven't got the double jump yet or the charged dash. Can't find them - but I finally unlocked the tram! And have got 238 Essence and found the way to the Deepnest dream guy (I think) but haven't gone there as I read it's meant as endgame content - and I don't believe that I'm there yet.

For finding the map guy in Fog Canyon, you need to go in from somewhere in Fungal Wastes but it requires some upgrades. Don't know which or where they are, though.

I'm about done with Deepnest and I think I'm going to Howling Cliffs to see if there is something important up there (again).

 

[Daft]

I picked this up because everyone was singing its praise. I was a little worried that it would be too hard, or too unforgiving. But, I am really enjoying it.

To me, it feels like Dark Sous meets Metroid. I think maybe because you get punished bad for mistakes, the enemies all signal their attacks, going back to pick up your dead body, etc,.

I just fought the boss with the needle and thread weapon (for the first time?).

I love the music. Love the art direction and the animation. I'm enjoying the enemy design. I love playing it on the TV and in portable. Yeah...hopefully it doesn't get too hard because I'm sad to say it only takes one incredibly frustrating boss to cock-block me from progressing through a game.

[MindFreak]

10 minutes ago, Daft said:

I picked this up because everyone was singing its praise. I was a little worried that it would be too hard, or too unforgiving. But, I am really enjoying it.

To me, it feels like Dark Sous meets Metroid. I think maybe because you get punished bad for mistakes, the enemies all signal their attacks, going back to pick up your dead body, etc,.

I just fought the boss with the needle and thread weapon (for the first time?).

I love the music. Love the art direction and the animation. I'm enjoying the enemy design. I love playing it on the TV and in portable. Yeah...hopefully it doesn't get too hard because I'm sad to say it only takes one incredibly frustrating boss to cock-block me from progressing through a game.

Well, the bosses I've met were hard but never unfair and my deaths were on me or from something unexpected from the boss that you are able to foresee once you've tried the boss a couple of times. Some bosses are hard at a certain point but after a few upgrades they become easier and thus, sometimes you just have to leave in order to come back later.

The same goes for the platforming, some sections are really hard but again, deaths are on you even though some places are a bit cheap with spikes or similar traps in certain places.

Spoiler

Well, found a new area that gave me a new ability - Crystal-something that makes me fly straight through the air. It made a few more areas accessible for me and hence, I met Sheo who taught me a new sword move, and now I'm in Ancient Basin exploring. 

 

[Daft]

That's what I'm hoping for so that's good to hear!

[Grazza]

On ‎17‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 10:22 PM, MindFreak said:

Also agree with @Grazza about the darkness, it's overall a bit dim - but not as much as Battle Chasers. The lamp also helps on this.

 

Yeah, I did that and I'm not having any problem with it now.  They make you buy everything in this game! 

[Ganepark32]

After 18 hours of play, I've completed the necessary requirements to take on the final boss. I gave it a go and though I managed to get it to the first stun stage, I got instantly annihilated by one of its attacks that covers the whole screen.

Not intending to call it there, I'm going to go off and collect the remaining upgrades, charms and grubs as they'll help with the final boss.

Made a lot of progress to get to that point today. I gave up trying to finish a room I'd been stuck on and went to try and find some new locations and quickly flew through them thanks to having upgraded my nail (I've only one more upgrade available for it) and trying out some new charms that give off AOE damage to other enemies. I then went back to the room I couldn't clear and after a total of probably 2 hours accumulated over various sittings trying to get through the room and kill its 6 enemies, I finally did it. The sense of achievement with that, man it brought me back to the good old days of gaming where it feels like you're banging your head against a wall for ages but then it finally clicks and it's awesome.

There are definitely some frustrations when playing but the game is still absolutely brilliant. It was already one of my favourite games of last year but playing it again now, and more fully, it's become more one of my favourite games of this year as well, right behind Celeste and God of War.

[MindFreak]

I must admit that I have no idea what the requirements for fighting the final boss are - or what/who the final boss is. I think the story in the game is rather vague and I'm unsure why I'm even there. But it's certain that there is something "wrong" in Hallownest and that you are there to figure out what it is.

I've found the Grimm Troupe. I think that's once of the DLC-packs. I don't know when to do that.

[Sméagol]

Just a quick comment. I bought this after playing and finishing Yoku (so heading straight back in another Metroidvania).

..

And 15 euros is a fucking steal.

I love the Metroid / Dark Souls / A bug's life combo. I'm not having any problems with difficulty, though I did get utterly lost.

[MindFreak]

Alrighty then, I think I can go to the final boss now - but I won't! Hah! 

I have now bought every map and have thus seen every area which is nice. Now to explore them, fight the warrior dreams, find the mask upgrades (I need three more pieces), three pale ores, and the last charms and charm notches. Oh, and I need to beat the Colosseum of Fools level 2 and 3 - I suppose they are really hard?

Summing up the numbers in the Parental App it seems that I've spend more than nearly 30 hours to get to this point. And I've got some help from time to time when I was utterly lost.

[Ganepark32]

18 hours ago, MindFreak said:

Alrighty then, I think I can go to the final boss now - but I won't! Hah! 

I have now bought every map and have thus seen every area which is nice. Now to explore them, fight the warrior dreams, find the mask upgrades (I need three more pieces), three pale ores, and the last charms and charm notches. Oh, and I need to beat the Colosseum of Fools level 2 and 3 - I suppose they are really hard?

Summing up the numbers in the Parental App it seems that I've spend more than nearly 30 hours to get to this point. And I've got some help from time to time when I was utterly lost.

This is what I'm currently doing. Only got a few more Grubs to do and do the coliseum before I might try the final boss properly. Though I may go and try and collect the needed dream essence to work on gaining the second half of an item that is required for getting the true ending to the game, which I've heard is really difficult (both getting through the area for the item and the final boss thereafter).

I've enjoyed getting the bits of story that are slowly drip fed. It's very much like Hyper Light Drifter in how it gives you the story, though a bit more open about it. By and large, you could ignore it but if you want to get the most out of the game, there's a huge amount if lore to delve into. The history of Hallownest and it's rulers and being a has been really interesting to find out as has been finding out about who you are and the motivations for coming to Hallownest. It's part of the draw for continuing to get everything out of the game for me so as to give the game the proper conclusion that it at times suggests you should.

I've only clocked up about 24 hours myself but suspect this will become my most played Switch game by the time I'm finished (Mario Odyssey, Mario + Rabbids and Rocket League are all at 25 hours plus and Zelda is at 20 plus despite not gelling with it).

[Sméagol]

Some of my progress before I continue:

Spoiler

Walking around without a map for most of the time made me venture into areas I'd otherwise would probably not gotten in to. I like to "clear" an area first, which is what I did with the first area as you can find the map easily in that one. I defeated the boss, got all the bugs / grubs I could find, and checked all exits before heading into the ehh forest / park area (forgot the names). Annoyingly, in that area, finding the map was pretty much the last thing I did (before backtracking back there). In fact the map guy was already gone at that point.

That map thing is both refreshing and annoying. After Queen's station, it took me a long time to find another stag station, and I entered, I think it was called Soul Sanctum? Before I found another (and could go back to the city). At that point I had already lost over a 1000 geo twice. Otherwise I'd have that lamp by now, as there are at least 3 other areas I'm still waiting to explore with that. At that point, I had (well, still have) only the dash and walljump, 3 mask shards (so only the original 5 hp) and only fought and defeated a handfull of (mini) bosses. The hardest so far were the Mantis lords. Well, the only one to give me trouble actually, so far. Like some Dark Souls bosses, it's a boss who's easy when you're fighting just one of them, but hard when you're fighting two. Anyway, I got the pattern down eventually, and now they're not actually hard any more.

After without seeing a stag station for so long, I actually failed to notice the one in that city area. After defeating some boss in Soul Sanctum, I finally used that one to go back to the Dirtmouth, and finally did some backtracking in the earlier areas. I finally completed a mask, as some fire spewing boss game me a shard.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Sméagol