Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition

[darksnowman]

What's so special about Abyss, then? I skipped it on 3DS as reviews and impressions weren't great at all. 

[Hero-of-Time]

29 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

What's so special about Abyss, then? 

It has a banging opening.

After that? Not much else.  

I imported it back during the PS2 days and the game failed to grab me. I found the characters and story to be a drag. I don't think I ever finished it. 

[Dcubed]

1 hour ago, darksnowman said:

What's so special about Abyss, then? I skipped it on 3DS as reviews and impressions weren't great at all. 

Abyss actually has some semblance of dungeon design, with actual puzzles to figure out! (basic as they are, they are there!).  It has some meaningful sidequests, minigames (even a stealth sequence!) and some actual exploration and meaningful gameplay outside of just fighting enemies endlesly!

Unfortunately all that stuff started disappearing after Abyss came out.  Vesperia was a sort of last gasp, before the series basically turned into a glorified combat simulator; where every "dungeon" basically became a linear corridor with nothing to do other than fight enemies, and any sort of sidequest that involved anything other than killing enemies was stamped out.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Dcubed

[Jonnas]

7 hours ago, darksnowman said:

What's so special about Abyss, then? I skipped it on 3DS as reviews and impressions weren't great at all. 

It was the next "big game" released after the very successful Symphonia. And it was released for the larger playerbase of the PS2, which explains its popularity. In a way, it was the game that cemented Tales' status as a notable RPG series, after Symphonia launched it. Plus, to its own credit, it was a long RPG to feature an extensive amount of good voice acting (once again, alongside Symphonia) during a time where this wasn't common yet, at least in the English-speaking world.

I remember really wanting to play that game back in the day, really wanted to experience for myself what seemed to be the spiritual successor of Symphonia. I only had that opportunity much later, in 2014, and... it was fine. I did like it as I was playing it (my impressions around that time were pretty positive), but looking back on it, it was pretty damn flawed.

Odd pacing, bland dungeons, barely any use of the world map, writing that's hit-or-miss, and a combat system that becomes too easy too soon (I swear, Mystic Artes shouldn't be that easy to pull off). That said, it wasn't a bad game either, since the good story moments were pretty satisfying, the characters were memorable, and the battle system was still pretty competent. It's just... there were a lot of annoying niggles in the middle.

6 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Abyss actually has some semblance of dungeon design, with actual puzzles to figure out! (basic as they are, they are there!).

I distinctly remember disliking the dungeons as I played it. They'd be solved as long as you explored the whole thing, basically. Compared to Symphonia's creative uses for the Sorcerer's Ring, or even Phantasia's variety of hazards, it was disappointing. What you describe for the rest of the series sounds like the barren labyrinths of Symphonia 2 though, and that's immensely disappointing to hear

Edited December 17, 2020 by Jonnas

[Ike]

I liked it when I was playing it. Didn’t finish it, but that was a me issue. I can barely remember anything about it now though, which probably says a lot. The main character got some decent character development though.

[Glen-i]

Tales of the Abyss on the 3DS has surprisingly good stereoscopic 3D for what is a PS2 port.

Seriously good 3D there.

[Emerald Emblem]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:41 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

I adored Beseria. Easily my fav Tales game. The cast of characters are so interesting and not at all what you've come to expect from a JRPG crew. 

I hadn't beaten the game on PS4 but even then I considered it my favourite Tales game and when I streamed it on PC, I managed to beat it and it just raised it even further. But at the same time, since the previous game (Tales of Zestiria) was such a massive disappointment maybe it influenced this opinion somewhat since it's set in the same world.

[Hero-of-Time]

8 minutes ago, Emerald Emblem said:

I hadn't beaten the game on PS4 but even then I considered it my favourite Tales game and when I streamed it on PC, I managed to beat it and it just raised it even further. But at the same time, since the previous game (Tales of Zestiria) was such a massive disappointment maybe it influenced this opinion somewhat since it's set in the same world.

Again, I think it's the cast of characters that makes the game so good, as does the story. Being forced to play as characters who are neither good nor evil and instead are happy to see the grey areas of life was such a refreshing change. 

Zestiria has been on the shelf for a while now but the negativity around the game always makes me pass it by when I'm looking for a JRPG to play.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Hero-of-Time

[Emerald Emblem]

6 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Again, I think it's the cast of characters that makes the game so good, as does the story. Being forced to play as characters who are neither good nor evil and instead are happy to see the grey areas of life was such a refreshing change. 

Zestiria has been on the shelf for a while now but the negativity around the game always makes me pass it by when I'm looking for a JRPG to play.

It is also recommended you played Zestiria first but there was an anime made for it and I would honestly do that before playing the game.

 

Spoiler

I'm still salty my favourite character was only playable for the first 5 hours or so before she permanently leaves the party, her DLC story content might be the only reason I ever attempt to go back to it.

 

[darksnowman]

On 17/12/2020 at 10:49 PM, Jonnas said:

It was the next "big game" released after the very successful Symphonia. And it was released for the larger playerbase of the PS2, which explains its popularity. In a way, it was the game that cemented Tales' status as a notable RPG series, after Symphonia launched it.

Yes, that's it! It had slipped my mind that Abyss followed Symphonia and with it being "unleashed" on the PS2, they had a recipe for success. 

I've been making some decent progress in Vesperia--got the boat, it looks like the party is solidifying after some regular comings and goings, and I'm up to the desert area. I didn't think I was skimping on levelling as I've been battling for gald to buy regular weapon and armour upgrades, but when new members join the party they are routinely stronger than the guys I have. Whether it's right or wrong, I've been seeing new party member levels as guidance for where I should be. Battling for the gald needed to upgrade everyone at each new town is pretty time consuming so I'm not sure if that's a good approach--so much so that for the desert area I gave up on it entirely. There, all I did was catalogue some enemies and sprint through. Just prior, I had bother with a bat boss in the cave leading to the desert, which I beat the old fashioned way by reloading the last save and making sure to come back with an almost-full inventory. Though the limit of fifteen of each healing item kept things interesting. Afterwards, I started to think that I should juggle the party based on the enemies in each area as my A-team of physical hitters had bother reaching the airborne bats, and then again with the boss on the far side of the desert. But I dunno, I'm okay with benching the kids and letting the "adults" be the heroes here. 

Otherwise, I grabbed the (free) DLC packs. The contents of these are gels, gald, levels! Why would I use these?  I'm collecting the grade points so you must be able to carry stuff over for easier new game +'s, so why break the game on your first time through? I don't get it.  

 

[darksnowman]

So after the desert area, I got back to the boat (docked at Nordopolica with no way of leaving until the story allowed) and went about mapping out as much of the world as the boat could reach. Aside from a few spots to harvest ingredients and some temple-looking stone structures that I could do nothing with, there weren't really any new points of interest!  What's more, getting a good look at the small north eastern icy area, there was no snow town to be docked at. There is a gap in the ice so perhaps a sunken igloo city will emerge later? Fingers crossed. If not, with the large desert area and big stretch of canyons, plus the usual plains and forests, I'm a bit miffed that the snow environment is just a few ice sheets to navigate around.

Strangely, the newfound freedom of the boat was, its own way, short-lived as after playing through a handful of rapid-fire story developments (during which some party members left again and rejoined again), air travel was bestowed upon us. When exploring with the boat, it had slipped my mind that I was carrying something I'd vowed to deliver, but with the total freedom of the skies, it came back to me and I went over to the port town from earlier in the game to complete, what I thought, was the only sidequest going. How naive I was! I pulled up a guide to see what was recommended now I can go anywhere and not only are there new sidequests to do, there were some that you were already supposed to be in the middle of.  I'm okay with some obscure and missable sidequests, but not the vast majority of them. I've been talking to everyone everywhere I go and watching all the skits, and I think it's unfair for there to be no hints about any of the side content. I'm not asking for a checklist of sidequests, just a casual "I hear this has been happening over there" from an NPC or a party member mentioning in a skit they would like to pay a visit to their hometown would be a nice way of putting it on my mental radar and letting me choose if I want to visit these places or not. You know? The default position should not be that you miss everything except the main story. I later discovered (through this forum) that Tales of Symphonia also had more than its fair share of missable quests so I guess this could have been a staple of the series in 2008 when Vesperia originally came out.

Anyway, sidequest gripes aside, there have been some interesting goings on in the main story. Some characters have been offed (for good and ill), and it seems we have now been charged with a quest to save the world. I must say that it's been refreshing to have had all this time with the characters and the world they inhabit before being burdened with the task of saving the entire planet. That's not to say the game has been lacking direction until now. The party members have been proactive in their own ways, fighting for a better world for themselves and the people they know without aiming for anything world changing. The lead character, Yuri, isn't perfect or a chosen hero. He constantly makes the party members decide if they are going to continue together or if they'd prefer to pursue their own ends. It doesn't come across as him being blasé or disinterested in who accompanies him--you know he wants them to stick around and work towards their goals together, but only if it makes sense for them. The party is forced to reassess themselves and their motivations and they are a stronger unit for it. They even push against each other and it makes them all come across as individuals with their own flaws, struggles, and things to achieve rather than a patchwork group of has-beens that just happen to be travelling the world together because they have nothing better to do.

I left off at a save point in the (difficult to locate) Egothor Forest area. This has been the first new place I've been immediately comfortable in without feeling the need to level up or buy new equipment. It makes it easy to get through in one go while conserving items for whatever boss awaits. I'm not sure what will come next. There aren't a lot of new areas left to go so the save the world quest could well amount to nothing more than an endgame fly-around possibly to "awaken" those stone temple things I couldn't interact with previously.

What I want to do, is to have a base of operations for the guild and a centralised place for guild quests so we can make Brave Vesperia the best guild in the land!

[Hero-of-Time]

Yeah, missables seem to be a thing with the Tales series. I supposed this is why they encourage multiple playthroughs by using the Grade system and being able to carry things over.

[darksnowman]

4 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah, missables seem to be a thing with the Tales series. I supposed this is why they encourage multiple playthroughs by using the Grade system and being able to carry things over.

I was thinking about that as I formulated that paragraph and I couldn't remember if Tales of games sell a sidequest log in the grade shop? If so, then it's all good, otherwise in a New Game + you are still going to miss the same stuff because if you don't know about it you don't know about it.  

[Hero-of-Time]

13 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

I was thinking about that as I formulated that paragraph and I couldn't remember if Tales of games sell a sidequest log in the grade shop? If so, then it's all good, otherwise in a New Game + you are still going to miss the same stuff because if you don't know about it you don't know about it.  

Haha. Very true.

[darksnowman]

50 hours in and I'm still waiting for the party to settle down. Judging by the Switch homescreen icon, it looks like all available party members have now been with me at one time or another, so I'm just waiting for them all to come together for the final stretch. Don't read that as a complaint--I like the way the game makes you feel like something is always missing from your party composition. And I mean, it sort of feels like we are in the endgame now but I doubt the game will be radical enough to end with a depleted party. 

Storywise, since where I left off previously, in Egothor Forest, the game has been pushing me from place to place with more urgency than ever. We visited a flying city (with a warehouse that I thought was destined to become my own storage point, or perhaps guild house which I'm still on the lookout for, but nothing happened with it), then someone joined the party who, as has been the norm, was a couple of levels above the rest. With no time think, we chased the badguys through two dungeon-type areas, one of which displayed a map in the upper right corner of the screen--a first for me in this game--then had me face-off against Schwann (!!) who showed me to the game over screen. After reloading the save, we took him out at the second time of asking but it was no mean feat as we were heavily down in restorative items by that point. I think I subbed Rita in to add some distance to our attack as it was Schwann's close range overlimit we couldn't live with the first time.

Then it was straight into another dungeon where we were rejoined by one party member (whose "welcome back" was pretty funny, I thought), got the Sorcerer's Ring up to level 3 (no chance of limit breaks going up to level 3 yet?) and saved the capital city after a twist boss fight and moment of assistance from a villain who it now appears doesn't care what happens as long as the conflict never ends. And of course, a party member had took off by the end of this segment.  

Next up, bruised but not beaten, party fractured, airship gone, we must storm the still-standing capital to put an end to this by killing the maiden if we cannot rescue her!*

If things weren't currently funnelling me directly to the capital, with all other options apparently cut-off, it would be a good time to go back and revisit a few woodland areas with the upgraded Sorcerer's Ring, plus the recent dungeon that let me keep a map, as there might be a few blocked-off areas that are now accessible. There are still things I would like to be given the chance to make happen, such as establishing Brave Vesperia with a base of operations. (Hopefully this isn't a missable sidequest!) And perhaps there are more party members to come? Like, I'd let Sodia and Witcher of the Flynn Brigade into my line-up and drop the kids I'm lumbered with off at daycare if the chance comes up. Patty I can take, as she is obviously meant to be quirky, but Karol and Rita especially, aren't easy to take seriously as central members of the group.

 

*and find out who the true puppet master is?

[Hero-of-Time]

Haha. You really want rid of those younger members of your team, don't you?  

I know this kind of topic has cropped up on other forums, where people have been unhappy with the young characters you are forced to play as in JRPGs. I think with a lot of gamers who grew up with the genre and are now adults, it makes sense that they would want characters that resonate with them in their party. Yakuza: Like a Dragon features a party of adult characters and I think it was a big reason why it went down so well with a lot of gamers and fans of JRPGs.

[darksnowman]

40 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Haha. You really want rid of those younger members of your team, don't you?  

I know this kind of topic has cropped up on other forums, where people have been unhappy with the young characters you are forced to play as in JRPGs. I think with a lot of gamers who grew up with the genre and are now adults, it makes sense that they would want characters that resonate with them in their party. Yakuza: Like a Dragon features a party of adult characters and I think it was a big reason why it went down so well with a lot of gamers and fans of JRPGs.

Could be. That's interesting to think about. 

I don't remember younger party members bothering me much in other RPGs. In fact, a lot of the time I enjoy levelling up the unlikely looking characters to save the world with a group you'd never guess would say boo to a goose, never mind cast reality ending spells.   I think in Vesperia, I'm okay with Karol but I've been unable to warm to Rita--she's such a whine with too few flashes that she actually cares. The older characters are just so much less obnoxious than her. The boy Karol at least has aspirations and has been growing since we met him, Rita though has been a total whinge from day one and is one of the central characters! Sometimes I think she could be struggling with the discovery that she harbours feelings for Estellise and doesn't know how to express them (I doubt the story will go there), but the majority of the time she's just a whiney brat. Maybe she feels stressed from having to solve all the science-y problems the story throws up, or maybe she's always been a loner and doesn't know how to interact with a team. Whatever it is, it would be nice to have something to help me understand where she's coming from.

In the meantime, as long as it works, I'll keep on brute forcing it with the physical attackers.  

[darksnowman]

I've taken 10+ deaths in this today and because of that, discovered the game over screen is voiced by the last character to bite it. Again, it's not the general baddies so much as the bosses that are getting me. For story reasons, I was forced to skirt round the edge of the map via the ice area in the upper right, where I came across a boss that had to be fought with Karol alone. The first death was because I figured it was a scripted and unwinnable battle... but that not being the case (lol), it took me quite a few goes to get the job done. It was an airborne enemy and like similar flying bosses before it, I just couldn't seem to reach the thing consistently. After that, I died carelessly in the castle from a couple of back-attacks chaining together, and before I knew it we were overwhelmed and all dead before I could dish out the life bottles.   Currently, I've left it at a save before the boss at the top of the castle who has wiped me out a few times too--again, it's a one-on-one fight that I haven't been able to cope with, but at least this time it is a ground-based opponent. 

I still don't know if I am under-levelled or not playing the game properly.  I think it's the latter, to be honest. 

 

 

[darksnowman]

So I beat the previously mentioned boss with good old button mashing and running across the arena for space to heal. Using artes left me open to being counter combo'd to death in ways that mashing the attack button did not.  

Well, it turned out that wasn't the final boss or beginning of a boss gauntlet, and there was one more location to head to to finish it with a complete set of party members at my disposal. I partied up with my faves (three physical hitters and Estellise for healing), went in, cleared the dungeon's water level puzzles, had no real bother against the baddies in there, reached the final boss... and hit another wall. Very long story short, I left to go to a shop to top-up supplies, went back and eventually beat him. He had a move that could wipe out all four of my characters unless they were at full health.   Not to mention he was really good at healing himself. Routinely, I'd have him down to a few thousand HP only for him to get back up over ten thousand and show me to the game over screen. Rough. 

And beating him isn't the end! I'm alone again as Yuri and I'm starting to think this game is a bit long in the tooth. For so long it wasn't about saving the world, then it was all about saving the world, and now? Did we fail? Is this the true beginning of the save the world quest? I've no idea but it better be good to justify being this long.