Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu!

[S.C.G]

24 minutes ago, Aneres11 said:

May not be something that can be answered, but what do we think the replayability will be like in this game?

Im tempted to download the game rather than buy the physical, but I only really do that in games that I feel will give me some replay value. 

Any ideas from those who know more about it whether it will be wise to download or get physical so I can maybe trade  in once all the fun has been had?

If you're going to buy it at all, go for a physical copy, without a doubt.

Pokemon games are easy to sell on again... generally speaking.

This definitely isn't a title I'd want to be stuck with digitally if it turned out to be not as great as I once thought it might be.

I mean, you might end up loving it, but then if that's the case then... you haven't lost anything, unless you're trying to go completely digital, even then you could sell the game, keep the save file (I think) and then rebuy it digitally... I mean I haven't tried that, I'm just guessing but I'm going for mostly physical games so it's not something I've thought about too much.

Although I did notice that once I got Sonic Mania Plus (physical) I still had all the save files from my digital copy of Sonic Mania and it all just worked but that's different again.

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who buys these games, as I'm still interested, just not enough to invest as I've been put off by the "Go!" influences.

Edited November 11, 2018 by S.C.G

[Glen-i]

10 hours ago, Aneres11 said:

May not be something that can be answered, but what do we think the replayability will be like in this game?

Im tempted to download the game rather than buy the physical, but I only really do that in games that I feel will give me some replay value. 

Any ideas from those who know more about it whether it will be wise to download or get physical so I can maybe trade  in once all the fun has been had?

As someone who's checked out all the data that's been datamined out of the game, (Because I really don't care about keeping things a surprise for a game I don't want) let me just say this...

Go Physical.

[MindFreak]

37 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

As someone who's checked out all the data that's been datamined out of the game, (Because I really don't care about keeping things a surprise for a game I don't want) let me just say this...

Pokémon: Let's Go Physical.

Fixed.

I saw some non-spoilery stuff as well, and it turns out Eevee might be the better choice after all...!

[Hero-of-Time]

Not long to go before its released. I'm well looking forward to it. Here's hoping Shopto send it out early!

I came across a video by Happy Console Gamer on why he's looking forward to it and he very much mirrors my feelings. I've just came off of playing a couple of Assassin's Creed games so having something more simple and linear will be a welcome change.

 

[Glen-i]

I hate myself for not making that obvious joke.

Blatant open goal there...

[Hero-of-Time]

Reviews are out for the game and it seems to doing well with most outlets. Looks to be a more than solid entry in the series.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/pokémon-lets-go-pikachu-evee-review-thread.80697/

[MindFreak]

Surprisingly high scores. But I want a verdict from a true Pokémon fan rather than random reviewers. 

I get a review copy on Friday when it's out. Looking forward to trying it out myself. 

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

Surprisingly high scores. But I want a verdict from a true Pokémon fan rather than random reviewers.

That's the thing. They're not really the target audience.

[MindFreak]

10 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

That's the thing. They're not really the target audience.

Agreed. But I'm interested in whether this actually could be a good game for the veterans as well. 

[Ronnie]

Very high scores!

19 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

Surprisingly high scores. But I want a verdict from a true Pokémon fan rather than random reviewers. 

I get a review copy on Friday when it's out. Looking forward to trying it out myself. 

I’m sure most outlets gave the review to a Pokemon fan. Miranda Sanchez at IGN is a huge into it and she thought the game was great. 

[Glen-i]

Just now, MindFreak said:

Agreed. But I'm interested in whether this actually could be a good game for the veterans as well. 

Well, a lot of moves have been flat out removed. There seems to be no changing weather in battles. Hold items and abilities are gone. And the first 151 Pokémon don't exactly make for a good variety of types. EV's have taken a hundred steps back and gone back to a variation of the Gen 1 mechanics, (In simple terms, you can max out every stat again) so you'll never get any differences between two Pokémon of the same species. And a few other things I no doubt don't know of.

I can't see this being fun for those who want more strategy or depth out of their Pokémon experience. Make no mistake, this is Pokémon, but it lacks so many of the features that make Pokémon so complex.

[Glen-i]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Very high scores!

Uhhh... That's slightly lower than any Pokémon remake to date.

[Ronnie]

And? It’s getting great reviews.

I think most people who buy this game will be well aware that it’s a simpler and more accessible approach to the concept, but that doesn’t make it worse, just different. More complexity doesn’t mean better, it probably turns a lot of people off when it comes to Pokemon, myself included. 

[bob]

Well, a lot of moves have been flat out removed. There seems to be no changing weather in battles. Hold items and abilities are gone. And the first 151 Pokémon don't exactly make for a good variety of types. EV's have taken a hundred steps back and gone back to a variation of the Gen 1 mechanics, (In simple terms, you can max out every stat again) so you'll never get any differences between two Pokémon of the same species. And a few other things I no doubt don't know of.
I can't see this being fun for those who want more strategy or depth out of their Pokémon experience. Make no mistake, this is Pokémon, but it lacks so many of the features that make Pokémon so complex.

If it's a Gen 1 remake, most of these features wouldn't exist anyway?

[Glen-i]

Just now, bob said:

20 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

 

If it's a Gen 1 remake, most of these features wouldn't exist anyway?

Didn't stop 14 year old Gen 1 remake FireRed/LeafGreen. Which has every single one of those mechanics I mentioned.

[Hero-of-Time]

39 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

Surprisingly high scores. But I want a verdict from a true Pokémon fan rather than random reviewers. 

I get a review copy on Friday when it's out. Looking forward to trying it out myself. 

 

36 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

That's the thing. They're not really the target audience.

What constitutes as a true Pokemon fan? I've played pretty much all of the mainline games, as well as most of the spin offs. If I don't take an interest in the competitive side or enjoy playing Pokemon Go does that somehow make me not a fan of Pokemon?

I think a more fitting thing to say would be to see what those who play competitively think about the game. Saying that, considering the elitism attitude that the fan base has shown towards the game, you probably won't get a partial opinion about this entry of the series. 

[Glen-i]

16 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

More complexity doesn’t mean better, it probably turns a lot of people off when it comes to Pokemon, myself included. 

Point taken, but Pokémon has never been a hard game to play, the only time you need to get into the finer points is if you decide to go full competitive.

You don't need to know all the Pokémon before hand, you don't need to know all the underlying mechanics. It's a brilliant example of low skill floor, high skill ceiling and it only adds to the options that you have.

Let's GO effectively lowers the ceiling to be almost touching the floor. And that narrows the variety in negative way.

[Glen-i]

7 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

What constitutes as a true Pokemon fan? I've played pretty much all of the mainline games, as well as most of the spin offs. If I don't take an interest in the competitive side or enjoy playing Pokemon Go does that somehow make me not a fan of Pokemon?

I think a more fitting thing to say would be to see what those who play competitively think about the game. Saying that, considering the elitism attitude that the fan base has shown towards the game, you probably won't get a partial opinion about this entry of the series. 

No, but I believe it wasn't me who actually used that phrase. Although I did kinda unwittingly agree. I guess I should have implied that I'm talking the hardcore Pokémon fan demographic like me.

Whenever it comes to perceived elitism, it's always a vocal minority that gives a warped perspective of a view that doesn't really apply to most people.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Glen-i

[Julius]

3 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Point taken, but Pokémon has never been a hard game to play, the only time you need to get into the finer points is if you decide to go full competitive.

You don't need to know all the Pokémon before hand, you don't need to know all the underlying mechanics. It's a brilliant example of low skill floor, high skill ceiling and it only adds to the options that you have.

Let's GO effectively lowers the ceiling to be almost touching the floor. And that narrows the variety in negative way.

While as a franchise it is a brilliant example of that @Glen-i, as someone who attempted to get into the competitive scene back in Gen VI — which, at least at the time, was viewed at the time as the easiest way to get into competitive battling — I do still think that there is a barrier to entry which is too high for most Pokémon players, and a large part of that barrier is time. After spending 20 - 50 hours completing the main game and post-game, the problem is that the Pokémon you used during your playthrough most likely aren’t viable in competitive battling — which, at least to me, comes across as disrespectful of a player’s time. Hours and hours of breeding, EV/IV training, etc., just isn’t a low enough barrier for most players. There are plenty of players in the competitive Pokémon scene, but there could easily be many more — honestly, who wouldn’t want to battle Pokémon competitively? — if TPCi and Game Freak further streamlined and reduced the barrier to entry. Of course, I know that conversations like that have been met with backlash elsewhere on the internet, because changing the system now would seem disrespectful of the time that veterans in the competitive space have already put in. 

With regards to Let’s GO, I think my only problem — if it really is a problem? — with it is that they seem to be going for an incredibly niche corner of the Pokémon community with these games. Sure, there are millions of Pokémon fans, but the core series games prior to this didn’t have the highest barrier of entry, and many joined/returned to the franchise’s core series games when GO first released over two years ago, so I still think that the games are stuck in some middle ground: most GO players will have played a core series game by now, so this is aimed at the extremely small minority of GO players that haven’t? Seems...an odd business decision. Regardless, I’m sure that it will sell incredibly well by the standards of a core series remake, and I’m looking forward to reading everyone’s reactions here (and gauging my own when I eventually get my hands on a Switch).

[Glen-i]

5 minutes ago, Julius said:

While as a franchise it is a brilliant example of that @Glen-i, as someone who attempted to get into the competitive scene back in Gen VI — which, at least at the time, was viewed at the time as the easiest way to get into competitive battling — I do still think that there is a barrier to entry which is too high for most Pokémon players, and a large part of that barrier is time. After spending 20 - 50 hours completing the main game and post-game, the problem is that the Pokémon you used during your playthrough most likely aren’t viable in competitive battling — which, at least to me, comes across as disrespectful of a player’s time. Hours and hours of breeding, EV/IV training, etc., just isn’t a low enough barrier for most players. There are plenty of players in the competitive Pokémon scene, but there could easily be many more — honestly, who wouldn’t want to battle Pokémon competitively? — if TPCi and Game Freak further streamlined and reduced the barrier to entry. Of course, I know that conversations like that have been met with backlash elsewhere on the internet, because changing the system now would seem disrespectful of the time that veterans in the competitive space have already put in.

Gen 7 has made it easier. You don't need to go for IV's anymore because there's a service that just let's you max out IV's when a Pokémon reaches Level 100. There's also another service that does EV training for you while you do other stuff, even with the game off.

The only thing you really need to dedicate time to is going for the right nature, any egg moves you want and the training up to Level 100, which admittedly, takes some time, but with a Lucky Egg Pokémon Amie EXP boost and the EXP Up Power, it doesn't take too long.

Can it be easier to get into? Sure. But it has been steadily getting easier to get into recently. Let's GO demolishes most of the reasons why competitive Pokémon is so fun. A lot of the strategic element is no longer necessary. You don't have to make a decision on what stats a Pokémon should prioritise because they can all be maxed out.

The lack of abilities means that a lot of the more middling Pokémon (Like Arcanine or Kabutops) are now completely useless in battles because their abilities were the reason they were viable. This means you'll just see the same handful of Pokémon over and over again, because why use anything else?

The way to make breaking into competitive easier is by making it easier and less time consuming to get a Pokémon to competitive standard. What Let's GO is doing is lowering the skill and strategy needed to do well. And that's the wrong way of going about it.

[Hero-of-Time]

41 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

 

Whenever it comes to perceived elitism, it's always a vocal minority that gives a warped perspective of a view that doesn't really apply to most people.

Indeed but you just have to look at Era to see the damage it does.

When you get apparent core ( still dunno what this is suppose to mean ) Pokemon fans complaining and whining on about a game that they don't want to exist in every Lets Go thread it certainly gives the fan base a bad rep. If people don't like the game then they should simply not buy it, move on and wait until a game arrives that they will enjoy. As it stands, people calling Let's Go out are twisting anything they can into a negative in order to sabotage any kind of positive conversation about it.

[Glen-i]

7 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Indeed but you just have to look at Era to see the damage it does.

When you get apparent core ( still dunno what this is suppose to mean ) Pokemon fans complaining and whining on about a game that they don't want to exist in every Lets Go thread it certainly gives the fan base a bad rep. If people don't like the game then they should simply not buy it, move on and wait until a game arrives that they will enjoy. As it stands, people calling Let's Go out are twisting anything they can into a negative in order to sabotage any kind of positive conversation about it.

Core Pokémon fans in the way some people use it is a stupid term adopted by idiots who think they know everything.

Core Pokémon actually means the RPG series made by Game Freak. You like those games? You're a Core Pokémon fan.

That's just gaming in general, really. You only have to look around on Twitter to see that.

Look, don't get me wrong. If someone ends up enjoying this, more power to you. But I said it before for Pokémon GO and I'll say it again.

If this sells really well (by Pokémon standards), it's going to have an adverse effect on future games in my view and that terrifies me. Probably not Gen 8, that's coming out too soon. God forbid, Let's GO sells more than Gen 8...

And this time, people can't tell me I'm overreacting, because I was spot on last time.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Glen-i

[Hero-of-Time]

I get what you're saying but you just gotta enjoy the ride.

As you know, I'm a huge Monster Hunter fan. That series has got progressively easier as its gone on and is nowhere near as hard as it used to be. It's also got way more goofy and added things like a playable Palico, all of which I don't really like ( sorry RedShell  ) but I just accepted it and kept on playing. You then had a massive shift with the game in Monster Hunter World which turned out to be great, even though a lot of veteran MH fans refused to play it.

All of these things were done for the benefit and growth of the series and it has worked out well as now there are millions of new players enjoying a franchise that I love, even if it's lost some of what made it appealing to me in the first place.

[Glen-i]

25 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I get what you're saying but you just gotta enjoy the ride.

As you know, I'm a huge Monster Hunter fan. That series has got progressively easier as its gone on and is nowhere near as hard as it used to be. It's also got way more goofy and added things like a playable Palico, all of which I don't really like ( sorry RedShell  ) but I just accepted it and kept on playing. You then had a massive shift with the game in Monster Hunter World which turned out to be great, even though a lot of veteran MH fans refused to play it.

All of these things were done for the benefit and growth of the series and it has worked out well as now there are millions of new players enjoying a franchise that I love, even if it's lost some of what made it appealing to me in the first place.

The thing is with that analogy is that it's not quite the same situation. Monster Hunter's difficulty has gone down because of the many features it's added over time. Aerial attacks, Hunter styles, new weapons, stuff like that.

Pokémon has been doing that as well. All except for Let's GO, which is actively removing features for the sake of making things simpler, while barely adding anything new. Only the capturing mechanic has changed and it's just the co-op feature I'd classify as new to the series.

It's a stripped-down version of Pokémon and for a series that has a common complaint of "It never tries anything new", Let's GO is not getting enough Flak for that in my eyes.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Glen-i

[Ashley]

I think perhaps we need to look beyond the core/casual dynamic for this kind of game. In part because of nostalgia but also because it's animal-based this franchise can elicit an emotional connection in a way something like Mario can't (soz) that goes beyond how challenging the game may be. 

I've made joke responses to @Glen-i before now about not caring about the stats but there's some truth in it. When playing the games I never care about getting the strongest or best team. I find certain Pokémon more interesting and I want them and I work with them. Others go for power. It's actually pretty well articulated in the anime as different characters have different reasons to like Pokémon, and different 'uses' for them. 

I think we (as in gamers) need to accept that this game is more about your emotional connection to your Pokémon than your mechanical one the 'core' games have (not that you can't and some of the mechanics in those game encourage an emotional bond). This will appeal to some and others it won't. 

Although reading a review it did make me think this whole "catch more Pokémon and send them to Oak" idea just makes it sound like some kind of creepy culling exercise...