Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (December 2017)

[Ronnie]

Enjoyed it but it needed more time in the editing suite. The pacing and plot lines were all a bit convoluted. The beauty of the original trilogy was the simple narrative thread, this was a bit all over the place. 

THAT Leia scene was utterly stupid but otherwise I didn't think there was much else to complain about, for me at least, just the plot was a bit messy.

I thought the film got better as it went on. The first half hour or so wasn't good.

Characters continue to impress. Especially Rey and Kylo Ren. Lightyears better than anything Rogue One served up.

[Julius]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Enjoyed it but it needed more time in the editing suite. The pacing and plot lines were all a bit convoluted. The beauty of the original trilogy was the simple narrative thread, this was a bit all over the place.

 

 

It’s really interesting that you say that it needed more time in the editing suite: it’s actually the earliest a live-action SW film has been prepared prior to release!

As for the pacing and plot lines, I agree that it’s a bit frantic at times, but I think the core reason as to why so many feel that it’s a mess in particular is because of one thing that we’ve all come to expect - not just with Star Wars, but films in general these days - that’s almost completely missing here: 

Spoiler

...a three act spine.

Let’s take Rogue One as an example. The start of the film is a bit of a mess here because of the way it jumps around so sporadically for a quarter of an hour, but the bottom line is: Act I = Jedha. Act II = Lah’mu. Act III = Scarif. Everyone is all in one place, or one place is the centre of attention, and this gives a flow to the film. Act I is the inciting incident, so something eventful must happen on Jedha (if not before in the past sequences); Act II is where the protagonists face their toughest challenge (for Jyn it’s facing her father after such a long time, for Cassian it’s questioning his own morality, etc.); and Act III is the resolution. 

An act per planet is typical in almost every Star Wars film. The Phantom Menace? Act I = Naboo. Act II = Tatooine. Act III = return to Naboo. Return of the Jedi? Act I = Tatooine. Act II = Endor. Act III = Death Star II/Endor.

But this is fairly different in Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back, where the characters all start out in the same place, go off on their own adventures, and then come together again at the end. Attack of the Clones: Act I = Coruscant; Act II = Naboo & Tatooine/Geonosis; Act III = Geonosis. The Empire Strikes Back: Act I = Hoth; Act II = Dagobah/asteroid belt; Act III = Bespin.

The difference with The Last Jedi is that all of our new protagonists (Tey, Finn and Poe) were together towards the end of The Force Awakens on D’Qar, but had already split up by the end of the film. This film doesn’t fit a three act structure in any sense of the idea: the inciting incident has already happened (at the end of TFA), and the conflict is throughout the entire film. The film is 152 minutes long: Rian Johnson could have easily said that Act I = D’Qar/Ahch-To, Act II = Canto Bight/Ahch-To (Ben and Luke’s last, Rey’s trials) before Act III = Crait and everyone comes together again. Instead, it feels entirely like a graphic novel, throwing us from one situation to another non-stop, which only emphasises the survivalist nature of the Resistance(/Rebellion...urgh). If viewed through this lens, I think that certain parts, such as Finn and Rose’s detour to Canto Bight, suddenly become easier to understand than expecting an entire act for this part of the film.

 

[Dog-amoto]

Could be wrong but did anyone else notice...

Spoiler

The kid manipulating the broom before picking it up? Does this mean that there are many other “Force-sensitive” ordinary people without any grand lineage as Rey was made out to be? The spark that lights the fire that will burn the First Order to the ground. This is the reason I think that scene was in there, the future of the Resistance and the hope it brings to others in the galaxy.

Also, where can I buy a...

Spoiler

Supreme Leader Snoke bathrobe?

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dog-amoto

[Julius]

13 minutes ago, Dog-amoto said:

Could be wrong but did anyone else notice...

  Right at the end (Reveal hidden contents)

The kid manipulating the broom before picking it up? Does this mean that there are many other “Force-sensitive” ordinary people without any grand lineage as Rey was made out to be?

 

Spoiler

Nope, you’re absolutely right: that kid is absolutely Force sensitive to some degree.

Which I’m glad about. They’ve been building up to something like that since the expanded universe was reformed, and I would have been genuinely surprised if the awakening of the Force didn’t awaken it in others besides Rey. 

I think a 3-5 year gap between TLJ and IX is probably within reason given how everything went down, so I won’t be surprised if Rey’s helping train some new Jedi by the time/end of IX.

 

[Helmsly]

I had very mixed feelings on the film. A lot of the things they set up in Force Awakens didn't seem to go anywhere or went in what I felt was a disappointing direction.

6 hours ago, Dog-amoto said:

Could be wrong but did anyone else notice...

  Right at the end (Reveal hidden contents)

The kid manipulating the broom before picking it up? Does this mean that there are many other “Force-sensitive” ordinary people without any grand lineage as Rey was made out to be? The spark that lights the fire that will burn the First Order to the ground. This is the reason I think that scene was in there, the future of the Resistance and the hope it brings to others in the galaxy.

 

 

I noticed that too

[Charlie]

9 hours ago, Julius Caesar said:

  Hide contents

Nope, you’re absolutely right: that kid is absolutely Force sensitive to some degree.

Which I’m glad about. They’ve been building up to something like that since the expanded universe was reformed, and I would have been genuinely surprised if the awakening of the Force didn’t awaken it in others besides Rey. 

I think a 3-5 year gap between TLJ and IX is probably within reason given how everything went down, so I won’t be surprised if Rey’s helping train some new Jedi by the time/end of IX.

 

Spoiler

I noticed it too. I think there has always been some form of Force in other people. Remember that before Anakin was discovered he was just some random kid working in a junk yard. I think the ending just showed that although we've seen the last Jedi the Force will manifest in other non-Jedi's who won't be wielding lightsabers and undergoing professional training.

On reflection, this film definitely felt Two Towers esque as it was the continuation of a story and building up towards the 3rd part. Although we don't really know what to expect from the 3rd part other than the Resistance, or is it Rebellion, will put up a fight.

 

[Julius]

13 minutes ago, Charlie said:

  Spoiler (Reveal hidden contents)

I noticed it too. I think there has always been some form of Force in other people. Remember that before Anakin was discovered he was just some random kid working in a junk yard. I think the ending just showed that although we've seen the last Jedi the Force will manifest in other non-Jedi's who won't be wielding lightsabers and undergoing professional training.

On reflection, this film definitely felt Two Towers esque as it was the continuation of a story and building up towards the 3rd part. Although we don't really know what to expect from the 3rd part other than the Resistance, or is it Rebellion, will put up a fight.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I honestly think it’s wise to take middle chapters as their own films whilst remembering that it’s the core of a larger whole, and it can be retroactively bettered by what comes after it in the resolution of the trilogy (e.g. ROTJ retroactively betters TESB in a few ways, in my opinion). I’d actually argue this is especially important in this case, seeing as TLJ literally picks up where TFA left off.

I do have to wonder, though: have Snoke and Luke being killed (?) cleared the table of a possible power creep in Force understanding/usability, or could they yet come back in some big way?

 

[Ronnie]

13 hours ago, Julius Caesar said:

It’s really interesting that you say that it needed more time in the editing suite: it’s actually the earliest a live-action SW film has been prepared prior to release!

As for the pacing and plot lines, I agree that it’s a bit frantic at times, but I think the core reason as to why so many feel that it’s a mess in particular is because of one thing that we’ve all come to expect - not just with Star Wars, but films in general these days - that’s almost completely missing here: 

  Reveal hidden contents

...a three act spine.

Let’s take Rogue One as an example. The start of the film is a bit of a mess here because of the way it jumps around so sporadically for a quarter of an hour, but the bottom line is: Act I = Jedha. Act II = Lah’mu. Act III = Scarif. Everyone is all in one place, or one place is the centre of attention, and this gives a flow to the film. Act I is the inciting incident, so something eventful must happen on Jedha (if not before in the past sequences); Act II is where the protagonists face their toughest challenge (for Jyn it’s facing her father after such a long time, for Cassian it’s questioning his own morality, etc.); and Act III is the resolution. 

An act per planet is typical in almost every Star Wars film. The Phantom Menace? Act I = Naboo. Act II = Tatooine. Act III = return to Naboo. Return of the Jedi? Act I = Tatooine. Act II = Endor. Act III = Death Star II/Endor.

But this is fairly different in Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back, where the characters all start out in the same place, go off on their own adventures, and then come together again at the end. Attack of the Clones: Act I = Coruscant; Act II = Naboo & Tatooine/Geonosis; Act III = Geonosis. The Empire Strikes Back: Act I = Hoth; Act II = Dagobah/asteroid belt; Act III = Bespin.

The difference with The Last Jedi is that all of our new protagonists (Tey, Finn and Poe) were together towards the end of The Force Awakens on D’Qar, but had already split up by the end of the film. This film doesn’t fit a three act structure in any sense of the idea: the inciting incident has already happened (at the end of TFA), and the conflict is throughout the entire film. The film is 152 minutes long: Rian Johnson could have easily said that Act I = D’Qar/Ahch-To, Act II = Canto Bight/Ahch-To (Ben and Luke’s last, Rey’s trials) before Act III = Crait and everyone comes together again. Instead, it feels entirely like a graphic novel, throwing us from one situation to another non-stop, which only emphasises the survivalist nature of the Resistance(/Rebellion...urgh). If viewed through this lens, I think that certain parts, such as Finn and Rose’s detour to Canto Bight, suddenly become easier to understand than expecting an entire act for this part of the film.

 

Great read and I can completely see what you're saying.

I think that's what I really missed here, a more coherent three act structure. The jumping all over the place made it hard to be too invested in the film, for me at least. Empire Strikes back may have deviated from ANH and ROTJ in that characters were separated but it was just Dagobah and the asteroid belt. Having three storylines going on at the same time in Last Jedi didn't feel like Star Wars to me and felt too messy.

Spoiler

Rian Johnson is I'm sure happy with his work, but to me there wasn't any major setpiece to focus on like there were in other SW films, the climactic (and great) final battle apart I suppose. Canto Bight though should have either been a bigger part of the film, or not included at all.

One thing that Rogue One absolutely NAILED was the spacebattle. It was as if they studied what made ROTJ's so timeless and incredible and made something that absolutely lived up to it, both in action and more importantly, style. I didn't like Abrams version of a spacebattle in TFA (too computer gamey) and I wasn't keen on the opening of TLJ, in fact I can barely remember much of it, bombers apart.

It's tough I suppose, there's a fine line between keeping the pacing of the original trilogy and making it so action packed and frantic as to keep modern audiences happy

Overall I really enjoyed it but just thought it was a bit too messy and frantic, but filled with tons of brilliant little moments.

Maybe seeing it a second time will help. Did you enjoy it more on repeat viewing?

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Ronnie

[Julius]

15 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Great read and I can completely see what you're saying.

I think that's what I really missed here, a more coherent three act structure. The jumping all over the place made it hard to be too invested in the film, for me at least. Empire Strikes back may have deviated from ANH and ROTJ in that characters were separated but it was just Dagobah and the asteroid belt. Having three storylines going on at the same time in Last Jedi didn't feel like Star Wars to me and felt too messy.

  Hide contents

Rian Johnson is I'm sure happy with his work, but to me there wasn't any major setpiece to focus on like there were in other SW films, the climactic (and great) final battle apart I suppose. Canto Bight though should have either been a bigger part of the film, or not included at all.

One thing that Rogue One absolutely NAILED was the spacebattle. It was as if they studied what made ROTJ's so timeless and incredible and made something that absolutely lived up to it, both in action and more importantly, style. I didn't like Abrams version of a spacebattle in TFA (too computer gamey) and I wasn't keen on the opening of TLJ, in fact I can barely remember much of it, bombers apart.

It's tough I suppose, there's a fine line between keeping the pacing of the original trilogy and making it so action packed and frantic as to keep modern audiences happy

Overall I really enjoyed it but just thought it was a bit too messy and frantic, but filled with tons of brilliant little moments.

Maybe seeing it a second time will help. Did you enjoy it more on repeat viewing?

 

Spoiler

I totally get where you’re coming from. Not every movie is going to be for everyone (especially at first viewing), but I do think that the change from a typically Western three act spine to a typically more Eastern flowing structure is what makes it so hard to love the first time around. 

As for a second viewing, I think that it’s a must, honestly. This film is too long and has too much going on for everything to be caught and understood when first watched. I came out of my first viewing with strong feelings about having no opinion - I was at a complete loss for words, in both good and bad ways. But after my second viewing? My mind has adapted to the radically different structure of the film, the twists and turns make much more sense, and it flows much better and feels like this is a story with purpose everywhere; in fact, the only thing that gets worse the second time around, as with any film like this, are the comedic moments which fall short.

Something I picked up on my second viewing, which I think was genius and that I didn’t catch the first time around, was that Snoke knew exactly what Kylo was doing (turning the lightsaber to his true enemy), but Kylo knew that he would know this and so turns his own lightsaber over in his hand and points it towards Rey at the same time as turning the Skywalker legacy lightsaber towards Luke. I also completely missed that Rey had placed the ancient Jedi books in the Falcon, meaning that Yoda was a step ahead of Luke and knew that they’d lose nothing from burning down the tree, but it was vital in bringing Luke’s arc back around.

I went from a confused and lost 5/10 to somewhere between an 8/10 and 10/10, so I can’t recommend a second viewing hard enough!

 

[Ronnie]

22 minutes ago, Julius Caesar said:

  Hide contents

I totally get where you’re coming from. Not every movie is going to be for everyone (especially at first viewing), but I do think that the change from a typically Western three act spine to a typically more Eastern flowing structure is what makes it so hard to love the first time around. 

As for a second viewing, I think that it’s a must, honestly. This film is too long and has too much going on for everything to be caught and understood when first watched. I came out of my first viewing with strong feelings about having no opinion - I was at a complete loss for words, in both good and bad ways. But after my second viewing? My mind has adapted to the radically different structure of the film, the twists and turns make much more sense, and it flows much better and feels like this is a story with purpose everywhere; in fact, the only thing that gets worse the second time around, as with any film like this, are the comedic moments which fall short.

Something I picked up on my second viewing, which I think was genius and that I didn’t catch the first time around, was that Snoke knew exactly what Kylo was doing (turning the lightsaber to his true enemy), but Kylo knew that he would know this and so turns his own lightsaber over in his hand and points it towards Rey at the same time as turning the Skywalker legacy lightsaber towards Luke. I also completely missed that Rey had placed the ancient Jedi books in the Falcon, meaning that Yoda was a step ahead of Luke and knew that they’d lose nothing from burning down the tree, but it was vital in bringing Luke’s arc back around.

I went from a confused and lost 5/10 to somewhere between an 8/10 and 10/10, so I can’t recommend a second viewing hard enough!

 

Spoiler

Great to hear you enjoyed it much more a second time, I suspect I'll be the same. I enjoyed Force Awakens much more a second time around to the point where I absolutely love that film. I find it's a lot easier to be invested in a Star Wars film when you're following one group of characters on their adventure, which is what TFA did and most of the original trilogy did. It's why I prefer Phantom Menace to AOTC and especially ROTS.

The whole Snoke / Rey / Kylo scene was great, the lightsaber part especially.

The film is full of fantastic small little moments.

The Yoda scene was pretty much perfect. It finally got his characterisation right after the prequels threw it out of the window. Loved how he was still making fun of Luke.

I had a lump in my throat during the Falcon's fancy flying through the salt mines, especially with the ROTJ music. It may have been a little OTT and a direct rip off of Lando flying through the Death Star, but still made me grin like mad.

Every scene of Rey and Kylo was compelling, they play off each other so well. Driver is a fantastic, complex villain.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Ronnie

[somme]

I'm going to see it again on Sunday. I'm determined to like it. 

[Julius]

22 hours ago, Mandalore said:

Got so many questions about Episode 9, really looking forward to it.

  Episode 9 questions (Hide contents)

How big is the resistance in the outer rim? Was that the entire First Order in the film? How well trained is Kylo Ren? He seems like an amateur, it'll be a strange end to the trilogy having such an incompetent bad guy. How much Jedi training did Rey get? Will we learn more about Snoke? He seemed extremely powerful and Luke knew of him. Luke mentioned Kylo only killing some of his apprentices and taking others. What happened to the rest? Were those the old Jedi texts I saw in the Millenium Falcon at the end? Will Luke appear as a Force ghost to both Ren and Rey? How will they deal with Leia, were some scenes from Ep 9 already filmed? Were Rey's parents really just randomers? The way both Rey + Ren and Luke + Leia were linked seemed very similar.

Definitely need to watch it a second time.

Spoiler

I’ll try to go in order (I hope this doesn’t become too messy to read!):

• probably not that big, in all honesty. After the signing of the Galactic Concordance to officially end the Galactic Civil War, the New Republic fleet was a tenth of the size of the Rebellion at its peak (probably around the Battle of Jakku). The Resistance, due to its budgets, etc., is only a fraction of the size of that fleet, at best.

• i wouldn’t think so. They’ve been rebuilding, redesigning, etc., for almost thirty years, so it’s probably much, much larger than what we’ve seen so far.

• we have no idea officially, but it seems he left to train with Luke around the age of 10 or so, based on other areas of canon. He’s 29 by TFA/TLJ, so he probably spent around a decade with Luke before he turned, but what he learned in that time seems pretty advanced (even if he doesn’t seem to be able to put much of it into practice).

• not that much, if we’re honest. It seems like she’s got around the same amount as Luke did in TESB over TFA and TLJ, but a time jump is expected to IX, so she could become fairly advanced by then.

• a popular theory at the moment is that Snoke served only as a vessel for a Force projection, so the true Snoke, or whoever was controlling him (if that was the case) could be seen in IX. Otherwise, I don’t expect much of an explanation beyond flashbacks to how Luke, Han and Leia know him, but were unable to sense/stop his toying with Ben.

• the implication seems to be that those who joined Ben became the Knights of Ren (the warriors clad in all black in Rey’s Forceback in TFA).

• that they were. Yoda’s line about Rey already possessing what was in the tree’s library was quite literal: she took them!

• it’s certainly possible, though I think we could also see an apparition of Vader and Anakin’s Force spirit attempting to guide Ben too.

• nothing for IX was filmed, I’m afraid: it’s actually still being written. There are quite a few ways in which they could go with it, in my opinion, which would make sense. Our farewell to Leia here felt truly genuine, and they have no plans to recast or recreate her with CG, so it seems that she’ll like die of natural circumstances between VIII and IX.

• we honestly don’t know. Rey might think that they were for a million reasons, but I don’t think that Kylo’s assertions can be taken at face value: how would he possibly know the truth about Rey’s parents?

 

[Julius]

1 hour ago, somme said:

I'm going to see it again on Sunday. I'm determined to like it. 

I really hope that you get more enjoyment out of the film from your second viewing, especially if you’re actively pursuing affection for the film!

I’m thinking of seeing it for a third time tomorrow. It’s an excuse to get out of the house, do some Christmas shopping...and pick up the Visual Dictionary for the film, which Amazon messed up in my order. 

[Ronnie]

Spoiler

I love how Rey's parents were nobodies. It was perfect and completely unexpected, at least for me. It would have been way too contrived has she been related to someone we know  

I also love Kylo Ren. Vader in comparison is mostly a cardboard cutout villain, at least Kylo Ren has depth. His arc is one of the most compelling things about the sequel trilogy to me, mostly thanks to Driver's excellent performance  

 

[Julius]

The film’s currently down to a 56% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, the lowest of any of the live-action Star Wars movies, compared with a 93% critic score.

It’s completely nuts just how divisive this film is.

[Glen-i]

6 minutes ago, Julius Caesar said:

The film’s currently down to a 56% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, the lowest of any of the live-action Star Wars movies, compared with a 93% critic score.

It’s completely nuts just how divisive this film is.

Isn't it a tad early to be relying on audience scores? It's only been 2 days. I'd give it at least a week for it to get more people's opinions.

[Dcubed]

This film was kind of all over the place really.  It has some cool ideas, some good characters and scenes, but man, it could really have done with some editing and cuts.

 

First of all, I have to give it props for actually (mostly) being a new film this time.  Unlike Ep7, this is not a thinly veiled remake of ANH with bits of Empire thrown in (more on that in the spoilers...).

 

Secondly, the cinematography does veer closer to actual Star Wars than EP7 ever did, which felt much more like Nu Trek.  It's still not quite there (and some scenes are just flat out, not Star Wars at all in terms of cinematography style), but it's much closer now (one scene in particular really nails the look and feel, more on that in the spoilers).

 

Right! Time for the spoiler block...

 

Spoiler

While I did say that it was mostly a new film, oh man.  The stuff that it rips wholesale from Ep6 is just painful.  Throughout the entire scene with Snoke, Kylo and Rey, I was literally begging them not to rip off the ending of Jedi, literally murmuring under my breath not to do it.  Cue the internal screaming when Snoke even baited it, saying "Oh, Kylo's never gonna turn, it'll never happen..."

 

Then of course it happens 

 

Then right afterwards, they actually do something really cool! They do something interesting with Kylo asking Rey to join him in killing the past and ruling the galaxy! That's new! That's not been done before and it was a genuine surprise!  I've really warmed up to Kylo throughout this movie.  While he came across as a whiny and snotty brat before, they've really fleshed out his character here with his backstory and characterisation.  They've done a superb job with making him a worthwhile and genuinely likeable/interesting character (unlike Snoke, who was a complete joke in Ep7 and who is a right barrel of laughs in Ep8).

 

On that matter, the scene with really great cinematography that nails the Star Wars feel? Oh yeah, that leads up to a total Ep6 ripoff too (The scene where the Falcon dives below the snow planet's surface - complete with a return of the same music from Ep6 to match!).  It's a pretty great battle scene all round though, with some beautiful juxtaposition with the white snow and red earth and it actually feels like a proper Star Wars fight (without even feeling like a Hoth ripoff in the process!) Good job!

 

There's also some really weird arse pulls that they do with this film that make absolutely no sense too.  Like, when Yoda (as a force ghost) pulls lightning out of the sky to burn the Jedi temple; so... force ghosts can now interact with the world proper? Why has nobody ever done this before then!? Or how Luke projects himself to Kylo; ok, that in of itself isn't too unbelievable, but then how does that projection wield a lightsabre!? It makes no sense! If they could do this, why don't they do it all the time!?

 

And the less said about Leia's Magical Space Force Jump Tourist Trip of Love, the better 

 

Speaking of characters, I really liked most of them in this film.  Rose was a great new addition, even if her characterisation and backstory felt a bit rushed (oh, how convinient that they just happened to go to the planet that scarred her as a child). Rey got a real chance to shine and develop, even getting her own Degoba Cave scene ripoff! (though to be fair, it was done a fair bit differently, even if the idea was the same; props for that). Luke was a total failure of a Jedi, just like in the original Trilogy! (and a whiny brat too, just like in the original Trilogy!) I could actually believe his characterisation here, as a grizzled and downtrodden version of the overconfident and incomplete Jedi he was in Ep6, and his backstory with Kylo and the rest of the Jedi he tried to train was pretty well done and pretty believable.

 

I also liked Yoda's appearance too.  Inconsistency with series logic aside, it was nice to see him take on a kind of playful role like in Empire again and the use of a real puppet gets mad props from me.  He felt like Yoda in Ep5, pretty spot on really.

 

The only character I was really disappointed in was Finn.  He doesn't really get much development (outside of the last battle scene with him) and is largely reduced to delivering cheesy one-liners (in a rather desperate attempt to make something out of Captain Phasma, who went absolutely nowhere in Ep7).

 

Other than Finn though, the cast were really good all round.  The new characters were all quite well done and fleshed out nicely too.

 

Also there's some really good comic relief moments, including some which I don't think were intended to be funny (especially the starting scene where Luke throws his lightsabre back at Rey when she gives it to him - that got the entire cinema bursting with laughter and I can just imagine the Super Cut that a fan's gonna make where they splice that scene into Ep7's ending ).

I think my biggest issue with the film though is its kind of haphazard structure and pacing though.  Like how @Julius Caesar mentioned, this film doesn't really follow the typical kind of 3 Act structure that the past movies did.  It bounces back between people and places without any real connecting structure to support it; it doesn't really feel like the events all happen at the same time (especially when plotlines actually end up leading nowhere, like...

 

Spoiler

Where Finn and Rose fail to deactivate the tracker

..., it comes across as a bit pointless, especially given just how much running time they give to that part of the film - it feels like a 3rd of the entire running time and it ends up doing next to nothing for the story, despite being a cool twist that goes against what you'd expect), making the film feel rather disjointed as a whole.  It's just kind of a messy movie that goes on for longer than it should really.

 

Overall though? I really enjoyed it! It's nice to see them be daring and try some new ideas, even if it ends up being a bit jumbled and messy.  The pacing is poor, but the characterisation is really good.  There's some good comic relief here, but also some real silliness that makes no sense.  I'd rather see a movie that takes risks and kind of stumbles doing so, than a safe movie that gets most things right but does nothing new.  They've also really kind of wiped the slate clean and dropped off a lot of series baggage going forward, leaving the past behind...

 

Spoiler

(which is actually one of the big underyling themes of the movie as a whole, so that's really cool too!)

 

So from here, it seems like they can basically do anything they want with the story now going forward, which should be interesting to see in Ep9!

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dcubed

[Ronnie]

You took the words right out of my posts @Dcubed, couldn't agree more with a lot of what you say

[somme]

14 hours ago, Julius Caesar said:

I really hope that you get more enjoyment out of the film from your second viewing, especially if you’re actively pursuing affection for the film!

 

I never want to dislike a Star Wars film and really didn't think I would. But it was only the first viewing and I'm sure there'll be parts I realise I love and other parts I grow to like.

I don't ever really see myself getting over:

Spoiler

Leia waking up and flying through space. Surely the deus ex machina to end them all seeing as up to that point she's only been shown to hear her brother from orbit and help her feel the loss of Han. 

Without proper exposition, I do not believe Luke would have tried to murder his nephew. Not after successfully saving his father. I believe that, yes, perhaps, there could have been a string of events that led Luke down that path. But it would have to have been more than just feeling a "growing darkness" in Ben. 

 

 

[somme]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

First of all, I have to give it props for actually (mostly) being a new film this time.  Unlike Ep7, this is not a thinly veiled remake of ANH with bits of Empire thrown in (more on that in the spoilers...).

 

I completely disagree and think it was a blatant rip off of Empire AND Return of the Jedi. (Just read your spoilered thoughts - haha)

Edited December 16, 2017 by somme

[Julius]

13 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Isn't it a tad early to be relying on audience scores? It's only been 2 days. I'd give it at least a week for it to get more people's opinions.

I wouldn’t say that I was relying on them, just mentioning them. I’ve already seen the film, and hardly ever pay attention to such scores anyway (especially given the whole The Dark Knight vs. The Godfather fiasco over on IMDb a few years ago).

It stood at 56% from over 8000 people at the time that I posted, so even if the next 8000 were to hypothetically all give it positive reviews, it would still only stand at a rating of 72% (it’s also atypical for those who have already given a review to change it, even if their opinion of the film does radically change).

[bob]

On 12/16/2017 at 10:36 AM, Dcubed said:

Spoiler

but then how does that projection wield a lightsabre!? It makes no sense! If they could do this, why don't they do it all the time!?

 

 

Spoiler

Well his lightsabre was also a projection. At no point during the fight did he actually touch Kylo. Yoda bit was silly though.

 

[Julius]

19 hours ago, bob said:

  Reply spoiler (Reveal hidden contents)

Well his lightsabre was also a projection. At no point during the fight did he actually touch Kylo. Yoda bit was silly though.

 

Spoiler

Which Yoda bit was silly? And in the good sense or the bad sense?

Also, the box office numbers are in. And they’re good. They’re very good.

The film had an opening weekend domestic intake of $220 million (the second highest domestic opening weekend of all time, only behind The Force Awakens) and an international intake of $230 million (placing it quite high, but it has yet to release in China, so I won’t delve into those statistics yet), culminating in a $450 million worldwide opening weekend.

Furthermore, it grossed over $100 million in its opening 24 hours in the US (Thursday night previews and Friday), becoming only the second film to ever do so (after The Force Awakens).

I don’t expect crazy numbers like these for May’s Solo, and it’s difficult to tell where the box office will go with regards to TLJ, but I’m very happy for Lucasfilm and Rian Johnson, and I can’t wait to see and hear more about his trilogy.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Julius Caesar

[bob]

Spoiler Which Yoda bit was silly? And in the good sense or the bad sense? [emoji14]
Also, the box office numbers are in. And they’re good. They’re very good.
The film had an opening weekend domestic intake of $220 million (the second highest domestic opening weekend of all time, only behind The Force Awakens) and an international intake of $230 million (placing it quite high, but it has yet to release in China, so I won’t delve into those statistics yet), culminating in a $450 million worldwide opening weekend.
Furthermore, it grossed over $100 million in its opening 24 hours in the US (Thursday night previews and Friday), becoming only the second film to ever do so (after The Force Awakens).
I don’t expect crazy numbers like these for May’s Solo, and it’s difficult to tell where the box office will go with regards to TLJ, but I’m very happy for Lucasfilm and Rian Johnson, and I can’t wait to see and hear more about his trilogy.

Force ghost being able to directly interact with stuff.

 

[Julius]

On 16/12/2017 at 11:58 AM, somme said:

 

  TLJ Spoilers (Hide contents)

Without proper exposition, I do not believe Luke would have tried to murder his nephew. Not after successfully saving his father. I believe that, yes, perhaps, there could have been a string of events that led Luke down that path. But it would have to have been more than just feeling a "growing darkness" in Ben. 

 

 

Spoiler

I respectfully disagree, for two reasons:

• Yes, Luke saved his father. But he came very, very close to killing him. 

• what Luke says when he recalls of the incident in the film: 

“I saw darkness. I’d sensed it building in him. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke has already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame, and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him.”

He thought about killing Ben, sure, but he knew, and showcases that he knows throughout the entire film, about what Ben would become. His instant regret conveyed here reminds me of the shot in ROTJ when he is relentlessly smashing away at Vader’s lightsaber, before he recognises what he’s done and what path he’s going down when he eventually cuts off Vader’s hand.