VICE: Nintendo Losing Younger Gamers

[Hero-of-Time]

An article from VICE cropped up over the weekend that talked about how Nintendo is losing the younger market.

 

In an interview with US Gamer in September 2015, Chibi Robo! Zip Lash assistant producer Risa Tabata talked about the decision to turn the game into 2D side-scroller (for the 3DS, of all systems) rather than a 3D platformer, like the preceding titles in the series:

 

"A 3D landscape would allow you to do more, but would also make controls and aiming more complex and the game harder overall. Chibi-Robo is a character who's beloved by a lot of small children as well, so I wanted this game to be accessible to that audience too."

 

The problem here is that said audience of small children have probably never played the previous Chibi-Robo games, and quite possibly haven't heard of the titular character at all. The first game in the series, Plug Into Adventure, came out for the GameCube in 2005, before many of them were born. No domo arigato, Mr Chibi-Robo.

 

Tabata's statement sounds an awful lot like Nintendo cutting off its nose to spite its face. They published a game aimed directly at an audience the company isn't the master of anymore, while simultaneously alienating Chibi-Robo's original and older fans. And as Nintendo moves into 2016, with the launch of its new smartphone titles, and probably a new home-and-handheld hybrid console in the form of the NX, it needs to realise the contemporary needs of younger fans. If it doesn't, it risks losing them further, no matter how many cute games with Mario dressed up as a cat it lines up. Sometimes, pandering to a market backfires.

 

According to The NPD Group and Consumer Tracking Service, for the 12-month period ending December 2011, 63 percent of Nintendo DS users were in the 2-17 age range, and 19 percent were 18-34. In the 12 months ending September 2015, the same age ranges for the 3DS were 51 percent and 39 percent, respectively. Wii U demographics have remained pretty constant – but you could argue that Wii U sales are so small that breaking them down into age brackets doesn't provide much in the way of useful data, anyway. (Nintendo's own eShop data shows a much more drastic cut off, with only six percent of Wii U eShop consumers in the 0-17 range, but the average age skews higher due to the digital distribution method more accessible to credit card-owning adults.)

 

Nintendo is slowly starting to lose the young audience it once dominated, and while it hasn't lost it as fast as conventional wisdom might suggest – it's not just selling games to a bunch of retro-heads in their 30s and 40s, despite the protestations from frothing fanboys of other console manufacturers – it still needs to appreciate a coming shift in its market share, and change the way it approaches appealing to kids.

 

Chibi-Robo! Zip Lash is just one example of where Nintendo has undercooked its products by naively assuming "kids" don't want fuller games. Splatoon lacked voice chat to combat "online negativity", but having the option to better communicate with teammates would have provided it with an additional level of appeal; and even The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes, a game built specifically for online, co-op play, only allowed players to communicate with emojis because its developers were afraid better players would boss other, less-experienced partners around. But if you look at Minecraft, a game that revolves around online interactions, you see voice chat fully supported – and that's a game that has under-15 as its largest demographic. Clearly, today's younger generation isn't afraid of the online experience, but actively craves it.

 

Nintendo is being too protective of the kids that use its systems, and as a result risks losing them completely. Such policies run against the very grain of the demographic Nintendo is trying to attract, while also alienating the greying crowd that's still buying its systems. The company needs to better understand the technology and culture that kids today are a part of. We live in an always-connected world, and Nintendo needs to embrace that, not thwomp it.

 

These policies are for the same generation that is used to not only watching YouTube videos about the games they play, but also recording and posting those very videos themselves. Instead of trying to protect and coddle kids, Nintendo needs to tap into the very things that younger gamers are active in. They've grown up with iPads in their hands and Minecraft in their hearts, and they are more connected and tech savvy than the generation before them. It's time for the Baby Mario gloves to come off, and Nintendo to treat their customers – even its youngest ones – with greater respect for their digital maturity.

 

Going where the kids already play is a good first step. But the delay of Nintendo's Miitomo smartphone game – developed in partnership with DeNA – isn't an assuring sign. And the nature of the game – it's a super weird-looking social networking app – doesn't seem to be the sure-fire mobile hit Nintendo should be leading with, relying on the faded popularity of the Wii-era Mii branding.

 

The launch of the NX, most likely later this year, is going to be an even bigger tell for the future of the company. Nintendo needs to court fresh blood, young blood. It needs to do what it did for me: bring kids into gaming young and convert them into lifelong fans.

 

Splatoon was a start, an inky tide of freshness for its makers. Nintendo needs more new IPs like it as early in the NX's lifespan as possible; new characters that kids can connect with and take ownership of, not just new titles for characters older than the audience they're aimed at. I think it's a safe wager that it's older fans camping out for Captain Falcon amiibo figures, not the under-17 crowd.

 

Bringing the role-playing game Yo-Kai Watch to the States in late 2015 (it's out in Europe later in 2016), albeit over two years after its Japanese release, was a good move – the Level 5-developed adventure was well reviewed in the East, and more importantly it's a big seller, too. Porting Minecraft onto the Wii U in December 2015 was a big step, but one that came way, way too late. Super Mario Maker, riding on the craze of user-generated content, was also late to the party – its launch in 2015 came years after other titles, like LittleBigPlanet, had been offering the same thing. Nintendo should have bet huge on collaborations with games like Skylanders – where the Wii was once the console of choice for players – or Disney Infinity, and done everything it could to attract the younger demographic. Nintendo isn't used to seeing other companies outperform it, historically, but partnerships are one way to stop some of its waning relevance, even if it requires a little swallowing of its pride. Its mobile venture with DeNA can certainly be viewed as a mellowing of previously held values of doing things entirely their own way, the rest of the industry be damned.

 

On Motherboard: The NX Will Not Be Another Wii U, Promise

If Nintendo wants to be successful into the future – both within the dedicated console gaming space, and mobile – it needs to embrace the way today's kids play, communicate and game, and create software that actually appeals to this generation of young gamers, with new characters, not those from decades ago. Give today's younger players some credit and don't limit online interactions. Don't make games easier, and then sell that as a positive. Impress with new ideas and IPs that that nascent gamers can call their own by reaching out to them, not bowing down to them without appreciating their actual demands.

 

Mario and Link get my attention; I grew up with them. But there's a generation of kids growing up with Steve from Minecraft on their T-shirts and Skylanders book bags, the new Marios and Links. Nintendo needs to react to that, get creative with its own original brands and treat all players with the same respect, or else its growing pains could well do for it completely in the next console generation.

 

How the topic starts is something that myself and others mentioned on here when the interview with Tabata came out. This certainly wasn't the way to get Chibi-Robo into the hearts and minds of the younger audience and that was proved when the game completely bombed in both Japan and the west.

 

The subject of online gaming is an interesting one and I fully agree with what is being said in the article. Kids today grow up with being connected to their friends 24/7 and gaming has become a massive part of this connection. Showing your trophies/achievements via Facebook, uploading your latest kill on Youtube, streaming to show your friends what your playing, talking to each other even through you're playing different games, all of these things have become the normal thing for todays generation.

 

I know that any talk of party chat on here is usually taken as a joke at this point, but a simple feature like that does matter to the younger audience. The 360 was the first to do this and a generation of kids grew up with that feature and demand it as a normal thing on a console.

 

I have 4 nephews and 5 nieces and most of these show just how far Nintendo have fallen when it comes to capturing the younger generation.

 

My two youngest nephews, Calum (8) and Connor (6) have a Wii U and iPads. I told my sister to get them a Wii U as it would probably has the games on there that is best suited for them and their age group. They got games like Splatoon and Smash Bros for Christmas but they didn't get a look in. Why? Simply because they are too busy either playing Minecraft or watching people play Minecraft on their iPads.

 

Their youngest sister, Beth (5), doesn't really play games but she is influenced by her brothers and what they do and watch. She will happily sit and watch Minecraft videos as well, because that's what the rest of her family is doing.

 

Nintendo have made a great effort with Splatoon and it certainly has had a massive effect in Japan and its younger audience. Whether this success has been repeated over in the west remains to be seen but its exactly what is needed to capture the attention of a new generation of kids.

 

Moving on to some of my older nephews, both Josh (20) and Jordan (18), grew up with Nintendo consoles early in their life but eventually made the switch to the 360, which dominated their play time during their teenage years. Both of them pretty much demand party chat for their consoles.

 

Josh is a huge Monster Hunter fan, bought a Wii U for MH3U and then sold the console straight after finishing the game. He said that Nintendo were backwards and their consoles garbage. Despite having Nintendo consoles in his life, he now hates the company. You just have ask lostmario and he will tell you how Josh despises Nintendo and their online practices.

 

My two oldest nieces Jessica-Amy (17) and Kaiya (14) both have PS4s. They have these because this is what their friends also have. They get to come home from sixth form/school and play and chat with their friends at the same time. A lot of the time I don't think what they are playing even matters , it's more to do with the social aspect of things.

 

While these are just my own examples, i'm sure there are MANY others that see the same in either their own children or other family members.

 

I think it's important not to dismiss things that we have no interest in. I know there's a few on here that scoff at the thought of talking to people while playing games, but there's a generation of gamers that need this or will simply go elsewhere. I don't care for the streaming side of gaming ( baffles me why people watch a game being played when they could go and play it themselves ) but I appreciate that its a huge thing that many gamers do want.

 

This quote from Reggie back at E3 2014 just shows how backwards the company can be.

 

"We don't think streaming 30 minutes of gameplay by itself is a lot of fun," Fils-Aime said in answer to my question about whether Twitch could come to the Wii U.

 

Whether you personally think a feature is fun or not is irrelevant. If the consumer is wanting a feature, and they do find it fun, then you should be doing everything in your power to make it happen, rather than dismissing it.

 

Anyway, I think i've said enough on the matter. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Dcubed]

Saw this article earlier...

 

It's a bit ill informed in some places (them supposedly making their games easier when the opposite is true), but the core sentiment is very true.

 

Just the other day on the way to work, I saw a kid playing with his phone... What was he playing? It turns out that it wasn't a game, it was a video of a Youtuber playing GTA.

 

Today's kids are seemingly more likely to watch others play than actually play the games themselves. That episode of South Park is spot on and Nintendo's platforms are not congurant to that at all right now.

 

Nintendo's audience ironically probably skews older than MS and Sony's right now. Today's kids are of the YouTube generation and are used to online interaction of all kinds. Being overly protective is probably doing them more harm than good right now (though I personally like the curated nature of Miiverse myself) and they really should give kids the tools to communicate and broadcast themselves as easily as possible, without playing the Nanny so hard...

 

It's a tough balancing act for them though because there is a very real chance of abuse... Just look at what happened with Nintendo Letterbox and Flipnote 3D! While they may not be legally responsible, they do have a moral obligation of sorts to protect their users and they very clearly take it seriously.

 

It's like the whole free to play thing. Could they be as abusive as other developers and use the same underhanded psychological tricks to exploit vulnerable whales? Course they could! But they want to go the honest route and that puts them at a disadvantage. Same thing here in a sense. Could they support the same streaming functions and communication features? Sure, but they want to provide a safe environment for kids and that puts them at a disadvantage...

Edited February 1, 2016 by Dcubed

[Serebii]

I feel that this article is very ill-timed. It would have made sense say a year or two ago, but not so much now seeing as Nintendo are exploring a variety of avenues to solve this and the article's writer is seemingly unaware of this and a variety of things Nintendo are actually doing, as well as factually incorrect things such as claiming Nintendo make games easier.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Serebii

[pratty]

My first thought is these articles tend to imply there's something wrong in the world if a specific company isn't doing as well as it once did. It's not just gaming, it's everything, how many times do you see news pieces about floundering supermarkets like we should give a damn, and it's usually Tesco, who's been number one and had it so good for so long, as soon as they have ther slightest downturn suddenly it's "poor Tesco" and journalists are asking how will they turn this round?

 

Just recently it was Apple and with a slow down in I-Phone sales (what a surprise, they sold so many and we're supposed to be surprised it's now a saturated market?), reported as bad news, as though we're all Apple shareholders or something. I couldn't care less. They'll even report report 'bad' companies that sell crap like McDonalds not doing as well as bad news, isn't a good thing that Mcdonald's aren't doing as well?

 

Obviously we care about Nintendo but let's not presume Nintendo should or needs to be number one to satisfy us the people that actually care about the company.

 

If Nintendo turned this all around and kids were playing Wii-Us instead Playstations and XBoxes, and the 3DS instead of the I-Phone, Vice would just be writing an article about where it went wrong for Sony, Microsoft and Apple instead.

 

The reality is they can't all do equally well, I don't think any of these companies are really selling bad products, if time and money weren't limiting factors for consumers everyone would probably own all their products. People often have to choose one over the other, so for one company to do exceptionally well, as Apple has done recently, doesn't it make sense the others have to suffer a bit.

 

I get why Nintendo fans would want Nintendo to do well, but what confuses me is why indifferent people insist Nintendo need to make drastic and even 'un-Nintendo' changes to address the 'problem' of Nintendo not being number one.

 

They say "drop the gimmicks, use a traditional controller, higher specs, less Mario/cartoony games, more 'hardcore' games like GTA, COD, etc." But Sony and Microsoft already do this? Why does it have to be Nintendo too, why not just buy a Platstation and write "Nintendo" on it if owning a Nintendo apparently means so much to people? The market is actually quite satisfied, but for some reason people insist it has to be Nintendo satisfying everyone.

 

Also some things may be beyond Nintendo's control. First of all when Nintendo were selling millions and millions of Gameboys to kids, either kids didn't have phones or their phones couldn't do what Gameboys could. Now phones and handhelds have pretty much the same capabilities, and culturally smart devices are probably the most must have consumer electronic, even in Nintendo's pomp videogame consoles were never this must-have as smart devices are now.

 

On top of that Facebook and social media in general is the must-have 'game'. While not a game as such, it is probably the biggest electronic distraction for young people, that's what they're doing in their bedrooms these days instead of playing Pokemon.

 

Clearly Zip Lash was a mis-step, though I feel even a 2D Chibo Robo can still be a good game if they just made it a good game, even if it isn't a traditional Chibo Robo 3D experience. Ironically, with just one analog pad, the 3DS is hardly made for 3D game camera control, and hand held games being different or a compromised version of home console games is nothing new. It's not as though touchscreen Iphone/Pad games don't make gameplay compromises or offer sub-console experiences either. Nintendo themselves have made great, critically acclaimed games despite the 3DS' limitations, I don't see other developers can't do the same. Mario etc isn't for eveyone and that's why Nintendo needs 3rd parties to step their game up, and of course for Nintendo to support them.

[Serebii]

Yep. The last thing Nintendo should do is just follow market trends. That's a surefire way for them to collapse.

 

Nintendo don't need to emulate what Sony and MS do, or what mobile does. They are far more likely to find success again if they find something new and unique than just put out a third x86 box with nothing special except it having Nintendo developed titles.

 

Another thing people continue to do is equate the success of the Wii U to the success of Nintendo, completely ignoring the success of the 3DS. The 3DS has done really well, especially considering the fact that it's fighting the behemoth that is the mobile market.

 

Yet despite that, Nintendo has managed to sell multiple games with 8 digit sales figures on that one device.

 

Due to the ignoring of the 3DS's success, people keep going on as if Nintendo has zero mindshare. Kids do buy Mario merchandise. They know Mario, they like Mario. Same with Pokémon.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Serebii
Automerged Doublepost

[Dcubed]

They don't need to copy, but there's a point to be made about their platforms not really making it easy for Youtubers to stream their footage without external devices (granted, bigger streamers would use external hardware anyway, but your average joe wouldn't).

 

With Youtubers being so incredibly dominant amongst the younger demographics, there's a point to be made for lowering the barriers to streaming on their platform (especially considering the unique requirements for dealing with their multiscreen hardware) and with kids being used to sharing everything in their lives online on social media, there's also a point to be made for Nintendo's protective approach falling upon deaf ears so to speak...

 

What they need is a "Nintendo-like" answer to these challenges. They're clearly warming up to today's modern world if you look at things like Nintendo Minute and their support for YouTube uploads in MK8 and Smash or how they've pushed streams of Mario Maker, Smash and Splatoon, but they need to go further still.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Dcubed

[Serebii]

They don't need to copy, but there's a point to be made about their platforms not really making it easy for Youtubers to stream their footage without external devices (granted, bigger streamers would use external hardware anyway, but your average joe wouldn't).

 

With Youtubers being so incredibly dominant amongst the younger demographics, there's a point to be made for lowering the barriers to streaming on their platform (especially considering the unique requirements for dealing with their multiscreen hardware) and with kids being used to sharing everything in their lives online on social media, there's also a point to be made for Nintendo's protective approach falling upon deaf ears so to speak...

 

What they need is a "Nintendo-like" answer to these challenges. They're clearly warming up to today's modern world if you look at things like Nintendo Minute and their support for YouTube uploads in MK8 and Smash or how they've pushed streams of Mario Maker, Smash and Splatoon, but they need to go further still.

Well I believe streaming like that isn't something that can be done on a device with a CPU bottleneck like the Wii U's. It's not something that can be easily patched in, that's why the PS3 and 360 never had it.

 

Nintendo largely spearheaded the inclusion of sharing within the console due to Miiverse. All it lacks is video and I'd be surprised if that isn't in NX as a feature.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Serebii

[Dcubed]

Well I believe streaming like that isn't something that can be done on a device with a CPU bottleneck like the Wii U's. It's not something that can be easily patched in, that's why the PS3 and 360 never had it.

 

Nintendo largely spearheaded the inclusion of sharing within the console due to Miiverse. All it lacks is video and I'd be surprised if that isn't in NX as a feature.

 

Well... Technically speaking, the hardware needed to support it is actually already there and in use right now... It's being used for the Gamepad! (and the hardware is capable of supporting two Gamepad streams at 30FPS, so it could be done if they wanted to...)

 

I do get the feeling that if they did it for the NX, it wouldn't just be streaming like how it is done elsewhere... It seems like the kind of thing that they would want to add a Nintendo Touch to.

 

Reggie's comment is pretty telling really. Nintendo as a company do not consider it to be "fun" to just stream video alone. I think that if they did it, they would look to find a way to make it more interactive on both ends (Sharing Miiverse comments and stamps live in chat perhaps? Minigames for you to play while you watch someone else play a game? That kind of thing I reckon would be what they'd try to do).

[Goron_3]

Interesting article but people were writing the same 10 years ago to be honest. That said, not a single person in my family under the age of 10 plays Nintendo games - it's so sad. My nephew got a new 3DS for Christmas but his parents were unaware that it didn't come with a charger - it ruined his Christmas day and they simply exchanged it for a family PS4 I was gutted as I really wanted him to play 3D Land and the Pokemon games as I grew up on Super Mario World and Pokemon Red!

 

 

Saw this article earlier...

 

It's a bit ill informed in some places (them supposedly making their games easier when the opposite is true), but the core sentiment is very true.

 

Just the other day on the way to work, I saw a kid playing with his phone... What was he playing? It turns out that it wasn't a game, it was a video of a Youtuber playing GTA.

 

Today's kids are seemingly more likely to watch others play than actually play the games themselves. That episode of South Park is spot on and Nintendo's platforms are not congurant to that at all right now.

 

Nintendo's audience ironically probably skews older than MS and Sony's right now. Today's kids are of the YouTube generation and are used to online interaction of all kinds. Being overly protective is probably doing them more harm than good right now (though I personally like the curated nature of Miiverse myself) and they really should give kids the tools to communicate and broadcast themselves as easily as possible, without playing the Nanny so hard...

 

It's a tough balancing act for them though because there is a very real chance of abuse... Just look at what happened with Nintendo Letterbox and Flipnote 3D! While they may not be legally responsible, they do have a moral obligation of sorts to protect their users and they very clearly take it seriously.

 

It's like the whole free to play thing. Could they be as abusive as other developers and use the same underhanded psychological tricks to exploit vulnerable whales? Course they could! But they want to go the honest route and that puts them at a disadvantage. Same thing here in a sense. Could they support the same streaming functions and communication features? Sure, but they want to provide a safe environment for kids and that puts them at a disadvantage...

 

Their games have certainly got simpler. Smash 4, NSMBU, SM3DW, Mario Kart 8 and Donkey Kong are some of the 'biggest' Wii U games are all based on engines and controls designed around a Wiimote, a controller with a d-pad and a couple of buttons. Compare this to where they were with the Gamecube where most of their games ad full analogue controls as well as a stick dedicated to the camera...*sigh* Some of those games are still difficult (ie. Donkey Kong) and are saved by brilliant level design but the controls just feel prehistoric. It feels like they've gone backwards and are just slapping HD graphics on it to impress people. Where's the ambition?

 

Splatoon and Xenoblade are the opposite of the games I mentioned above and it's no surprise that they are so critically acclaimed. They feel amazing to control and in my opinion stack up to the rest of the industry.They have no local multiplayer which probably helps the developers as they weren't limited by design but why create the Gamepad if the Wiimote is so important? *shrug*

[Serebii]

Well... Technically speaking, the hardware needed to support it is actually already there and in use right now... It's being used for the Gamepad! (and the hardware is capable of supporting two Gamepad streams at 30FPS, so it could be done if they wanted to...)

 

I do get the feeling that if they did it for the NX, it wouldn't just be streaming like how it is done elsewhere... It seems like the kind of thing that they would want to add a Nintendo Touch to.

 

Reggie's comment is pretty telling really. Nintendo as a company do not consider it to be "fun" to just stream video alone. I think that if they did it, they would look to find a way to make it more interactive on both ends (Sharing Miiverse comments and stamps live in chat perhaps? Minigames for you to play while you watch someone else play a game? That kind of thing I reckon would be what they'd try to do).

True enough. Tech is likely to be carried over to the NX so they could easily have it so you can either play with the GamePad, or stream online. Job done.

 

Their games have certainly got simpler. Smash 4, NSMBU, SM3DW, Mario Kart 8 and Donkey Kong are some of the 'biggest' Wii U games are all based on engines and controls designed around a Wiimote, a controller with a d-pad and a couple of buttons. Compare this to where they were with the Gamecube where most of their games ad full analogue controls as well as a stick dedicated to the camera...*sigh* Some of those games are still difficult (ie. Donkey Kong) and are saved by brilliant level design but the controls just feel prehistoric. It feels like they've gone backwards and are just slapping HD graphics on it to impress people. Where's the ambition?

 

Splatoon and Xenoblade are the opposite of the games I mentioned above and it's no surprise that they are so critically acclaimed. They feel amazing to control and in my opinion stack up to the rest of the industry.They have no local multiplayer which probably helps the developers as they weren't limited by design but why create the Gamepad if the Wiimote is so important? *shrug*

 

They haven't got simpler, we've just got better at games. I remember thinking Super Mario Land was hard as nails in the early 90s. Played it again last year and 100%'d it in half an hour with only one death.

 

This is the mistake people keep making. Also, just because it can be played with a D-Pad and a couple of buttons doesn't mean they're simpler. It means they aren't convoluted.

[Goron_3]

True enough. Tech is likely to be carried over to the NX so they could easily have it so you can either play with the GamePad, or stream online. Job done.

 

 

 

They haven't got simpler, we've just got better at games. I remember thinking Super Mario Land was hard as nails in the early 90s. Played it again last year and 100%'d it in half an hour with only one death.

 

This is the mistake people keep making. Also, just because it can be played with a D-Pad and a couple of buttons doesn't mean they're simpler. It means they aren't convoluted.

 

I never, ever spoke about difficulty. If you're going to reply to posts, can you please actually read them? The level design is as hard as ever, the skill ceiling of the mechanics is just much lower compared to where they were 10 years ago. Difficulty comes from level design - as mentioned above Nintendo's game design is better than ever.

 

'It doesn't mean they are simpler'. Erm yes it does. That is how game design works. The skill ceiling in a game with fewer movement options will always be lower than the skill ceiling of a game with more movement options (compare 3D World to 64 or Sunshine, for example). The general rule of thumb with video games is to lower the skill ceiling (and skill floor) if you're appealing to a much more casual userbase (i.e. Wii Sports). I recommend watching Matthewmatosis's in-depth critique of the Mario games for more insight

[Dcubed]

Interesting article but people were writing the same 10 years ago to be honest. That said, not a single person in my family under the age of 10 plays Nintendo games - it's so sad. My nephew got a new 3DS for Christmas but his parents were unaware that it didn't come with a charger - it ruined his Christmas day and they simply exchanged it for a family PS4 I was gutted as I really wanted him to play 3D Land and the Pokemon games as I grew up on Super Mario World and Pokemon Red!

 

 

 

 

Their games have certainly got simpler. Smash 4, NSMBU, SM3DW, Mario Kart 8 and Donkey Kong are some of the 'biggest' Wii U games are all based on engines and controls designed around a Wiimote, a controller with a d-pad and a couple of buttons. Compare this to where they were with the Gamecube where most of their games ad full analogue controls as well as a stick dedicated to the camera...*sigh* Some of those games are still difficult (ie. Donkey Kong) and are saved by brilliant level design but the controls just feel prehistoric. It feels like they've gone backwards and are just slapping HD graphics on it to impress people. Where's the ambition?

 

Splatoon and Xenoblade are the opposite of the games I mentioned above and it's no surprise that they are so critically acclaimed. They feel amazing to control and in my opinion stack up to the rest of the industry.They have no local multiplayer which probably helps the developers as they weren't limited by design but why create the Gamepad if the Wiimote is so important? *shrug*

 

They're definitely NOT easier. Tropical Freeze is rock hard, as is Smash 4 single player (the challenges are crazy hard) and even Captain Toad will end up putting manly hairs on your chest! (I still have nightmares about Mummy Me Maze Forever )

 

Difficulty isn't just tied to core control mechanics either. SM64 is arguably more complex than SM3DW in terms of base control mechanics, but the level design in SM3DW is far more complex and challenging in turn. As a long time player, I'd definitely say that SM3DW is a much harder game than SM64 to beat (to master on the same level as a speedrunner? Well that's up for debate :p )

 

Complexity can come from the most simple of control mechanics. Look at VVVVVV for example. It is literally a one button game where you can only move left and right and yet there is a super high skill cealing in place!

 

They're easy to learn but hard to master. Don't confuse accessible with easy here

 

True enough. Tech is likely to be carried over to the NX so they could easily have it so you can either play with the GamePad, or stream online. Job done.

 

Well WiFi tech has evolved since the Wii U came out in 2012, so they can probably do both now without issue (as well as support multiple Gamepad's at 60FPS ).

 

Thinking about it, there's a lot of potential here with a Miiverse 2.0 of sorts. You can have built-in support for video overlays, visual effects and such (and having a Gamepad/Wiimote esc interface makes it very easy to set up for the average joe), videos can play across both screens like they do natively and they can have things like built-in shoutouts to viewers if you touch their icon on the Gamepad while you stream. They can also have exclusive content from famous Youtubers that actually appear as regular programming on Miiverse.

 

Add in support for multi-channel streaming across YouTube, Twitch and Miiverse simultaneously and all of a sudden, the Nintendo Creator's Programme suddenly starts becoming a lot more attractive...

 

In a sense, it could be a revival of the Nintendo TV concept. It failed to get off the ground originally because it was too difficult to deal with the associated licensing issues. With YouTube/live streamed/official Nintendo content however? That's no longer an issue!

 

We all know how Nintendo never give up on a good idea and Nintendo TV WAS a good idea... just with lacking execution.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Dcubed

[Goron_3]

They're definitely NOT easier. Tropical Freeze is rock hard, as is Smash 4 single player (the challenges are crazy hard) and even Captain Toad will end up putting manly hairs on your chest! (I still have nightmares about Mummy Me Maze Forever )

 

Difficulty isn't just tied to core control mechanics either. SM64 is arguably more complex than SM3DW in terms of base control mechanics, but the level design in SM3DW is far more complex and challenging in turn. As a long time player, I'd definitely say that SM3DW is a much harder game than SM64 to beat (to master on the same level as a speedrunner? Well that's up for debate :p )

 

They're easy to learn but hard to master. Don't confuse accessible with easy here

 

 

 

Well WiFi tech has evolved since the Wii U came out in 2012, so they can probably do both now without issue (as well as support multiple Gamepad's at 60FPS ).

 

Thinking about it, there's a lot of potential here with a Miiverse 2.0 of sorts. You can have built-in support for overlays, visual effects and such, videos can play across both screens like they do natively and they can have things like built-in shoutouts to viewers if you touch their icon on the Gamepad while you stream. They can also have promoted content from famous Youtubers that actually appear as regular programming on Miiverse.

 

Add in support for multi-channel streaming across YouTube, Twitch and Miiverse simultaneously and all of a sudden, the Nintendo Creator's Programme suddenly starts becoming a lot more attractive...

 

In a sense, it could be a revival of the Nintendo TV concept. It failed to get off the ground originally because it was too difficult to deal with the associated licensing issues. With YouTube/live streamed/official Nintendo content however? That's no longer an issue!

 

We all know how Nintendo never give up on a good idea and Nintendo TV WAS a good idea... just with lacking execution.

 

I never ever said the games were easier, I said they were simpler. Serebii is the one that mentioned difficulty.

 

Again, I mentioned that the level design in the Wii U games (i.e. Donkey Kong) is still to notch and probably better than ever. In fact, DK:TF is one of the hardest games I've ever played But you can certainly master the controls in a matter of minutes - the difficulty comes from the level design.

 

I can't really think of a Nintendo game that I've played in the last 10 years outside of Splatoon that fits the 'easy to learn, hard to master' saying which they were so famous for in the past, and Splatoon on it's own isn't going to make me buy another Nintendo console.

 

I do think Nintendo's level design is better than ever, although this is expected because they have got more experience now. I'm sure if they created a game like Super Mario 64 now but with today's level of expertise in level design it would be even better. It makes me laugh when people boast that NSMBU is better than SMW on the SNES because the level design is better..you comparing it to a game that game out 25 years ago..Of course the level design is going to better! If it wasn't then they'd have to fire most of their level designers!

[Serebii]

Sorry, I misconstrued simpler to mean easier. My apologies.

[Josh64]

Nintendo's main problem right now is lack of ambition. For some reason in the Wii era they slowly went from the majesty of Galaxy to 2D platformers. Now we have 2D platformers everywhere and if they're not 2D, they're semi-3D like Mario 3D World. 2D games don't appeal to kids and as the article said, kids don't need simple games, if it's appealing they'll happily step up to the challenge - as they did with 3D movement for Mario 64 back in the day.

 

I don't think they need to totally change the way they are and ditch Mario and Link, they just need to be more ambitious, release a modern-day fully 3D Mario title, have more new IP like Splatoon and improve online. It's 2016, if kids are at risk online then the problems are gonna stem from their mass use of mobiles and iPads, not gaming.

[Ashley]

Nintendo largely spearheaded the inclusion of sharing within the console due to Miiverse. All it lacks is video and I'd be surprised if that isn't in NX as a feature.

 

Well the One/PS4 would have been developed at the same time (but obviously released later) so everyone was heading in that direction, they just took different paths.

 

In a way there were slight traces of it in the last generation (comparing trophies and gamer scores for example).

 

They don't need to copy, but there's a point to be made about their platforms not really making it easy for Youtubers to stream their footage without external devices (granted, bigger streamers would use external hardware anyway, but your average joe wouldn't).

 

And not to mention their YouTube affiliate program. I understand from a business POV, but it's such a half-implemented mess it must be doing more damage than good.

 

Someone I know had a notification from them but as he's in Europe he can't even sign up to it in the first place. Crazy.

[pratty]

Nintendo's main problem right now is lack of ambition. For some reason in the Wii era they slowly went from the majesty of Galaxy to 2D platformers. Now we have 2D platformers everywhere and if they're not 2D, they're semi-3D like Mario 3D World. 2D games don't appeal to kids and as the article said, kids don't need simple games, if it's appealing they'll happily step up to the challenge - as they did with 3D movement for Mario 64 back in the day.

 

I think the reason for 2D platformers was NSMB Wii sold a ton of copies, even if you exclude Wii pack-in bundles it probably outsold the Galaxy games combined.

 

So I wonder how much they think about attracting kids in isolation from other markets, they probably anticipate a lot crossover appeal between old and young gamers with the 2D games.

 

With the 3D Land/World games they probably thought they had the best of both worlds. Though, while I've not played 3D World yet I think of 3D Land as more of a 3D game than a 2D one.

 

I think it's the third party content Nintendo is lacking, if their games are too simple there's no reason third parties couldn't fill the void. Nintendo doesn't have to make every worthwhile game. themselves

[liger05]

It's not about just younger gamers. Nintendo try to appeal to a broad range of gamer and going forward they need to make sure that those with the buying power are targeted and then the younger generation follow.

 

I have a six year old and he just likes games. Whether it be mario, sonic, Yoshi, Lego games etc. The device or console really doesn't matter as he just wants whatever piece of hardware plays the games he wants.

 

I don't really see Nintendo franchises for kids but they really need to get away from the handholding. Too often they want to hold our hands rather than just let us play the game trial and error.

Edited February 1, 2016 by liger05

[Sheikah]

It's a tough balancing act for them though because there is a very real chance of abuse... Just look at what happened with Nintendo Letterbox and Flipnote 3D! While they may not be legally responsible, they do have a moral obligation of sorts to protect their users and they very clearly take it seriously.

 

Honestly, this mentality needs to stop. This very mentality underlies why Nintendo find themselves in their current situation with regards to social elements. They need to stop taking such a level of responsibility for this kind of thing - so long as you give people the level of freedom they want (direct messaging, voice chat) - there will always be abuse. What they need to do is simple - lock these features behind parental controls and have parents enable them. It's what Sony and MS do and you don't see parents vetoing their console based on this decision. It is not their fault that there are bad parents; no more so than if a parent buys their young kid a copy of GTA or Bayonetta. They should not be be nannying in such a way that hurts their feature set.

 

 

Regarding losing the kids of today, I honestly don't see what Nintendo can do. Parents already have tablets and phones that they let their kids use so in terms of install base iOS games absolutely murder Nintendo's in terms of penetration. They are also dirt cheap and naturally, just because of the devices they feature on, they are socially wired. The main problem is that younger kids don't buy their own system - their parents buy it. If it's a toss up between a £300 system and then buying £40 games on top versus handing a kid an existing tablet and some very cheap games then it's a no brainer which one is unlikely to get a look in with that particular audience. It's almost cruel.

 

About all I can see working is Nintendo having a eureka moment - making something like its own Minecraft in terms of impact and appeal. Something that would sell their system alone.

[Blade]

Nintendo is a joke.

 

The general public has not bought into the company this generation. The Wii U has been a massive flop. I really don't understand how people on this forum can make excuses for the company.

 

The online infrastructure is pales in comparison to what is offered elsewhere - no party chat, no streaming

The over reliance on platformers and party games - people want to see variety

The whole thing of censorship. Nintendo just over does it. I find it offensive that a company decides whether I can talk to my friends or not. Get some decent parental controls and let the parents decide.

 

Just some of the things that immediately came to mind there.

 

People in my own family don't care for Nintendo. They want to talk with friends whilst gaming, stream videos, display trophies/achievements. The other console manufacturers listened to the public. Nintendo doesn't.

 

My sister (16) plays on her PS4, talks to friends etc and streams youtube gamers. She even went to see one at this event. She went on my Wii U and asked if I talk to my friends online too. I told her that the system doesn't let me but I suppose I can skype.

She was just baffled.

 

My mates in Sheffield do not have Nintendo consoles. They used to play Zelda, Mario, Metroid but just moved onto the 360 in the last generation as it just offered more.

 

These are just some examples.

[Serebii]

Nintendo is a joke.

 

The general public has not bought into the company this generation. The Wii U has been a massive flop. I really don't understand how people on this forum can make excuses for the company.

 

The online infrastructure is pales in comparison to what is offered elsewhere - no party chat, no streaming

The over reliance on platformers and party games - people want to see variety

The whole thing of censorship. Nintendo just over does it. I find it offensive that a company decides whether I can talk to my friends or not. Get some decent parental controls and let the parents decide.

 

Just some of the things that immediately came to mind there.

 

People in my own family don't care for Nintendo. They want to talk with friends whilst gaming, stream videos, display trophies/achievements. The other console manufacturers listened to the public. Nintendo doesn't.

 

My sister (16) plays on her PS4, talks to friends etc and streams youtube gamers. She even went to see one at this event. She went on my Wii U and asked if I talk to my friends online too. I told her that the system doesn't let me but I suppose I can skype.

She was just baffled.

 

My mates in Sheffield do not have Nintendo consoles. They used to play Zelda, Mario, Metroid but just moved onto the 360 in the last generation as it just offered more.

 

These are just some examples.

Please don't conflate the flop of the Wii U to all of Nintendo. 3DS has proved otherwise.

[Hero-of-Time]

My mates in Sheffield do not have Nintendo consoles. They used to play Zelda, Mario, Metroid but just moved onto the 360 in the last generation as it just offered more.

 

My mates are exactly the same. They grew up with Nintendo but pretty much jumped ship last gen when the 360 came out. They now all own PS4s, with only one of my mates owning a Wii U as well ( bought it last year ). Even then he hardly plays on it. He's too busy playing games and chatting with people on his Playstation. Amongst my friends, i'm pretty much the last man standing when it comes to supporting Nintendo.

[Goron_3]

My mates are exactly the same. They grew up with Nintendo but pretty much jumped ship last gen when the 360 came out. They now all own PS4s, with only one of my mates owning a Wii U as well ( bought it last year ). Even then he hardly plays on it. He's too busy playing games and chatting with people on his Playstation. Amongst my friends, i'm pretty much the last man standing when it comes to supporting Nintendo.

 

I work with a guy that used to be pretty high up at EA back in the late 00's. He was saying to me recently that Sony and Microsoft have huge conversion rates for getting children that grew up on Nintendo consoles to switch over, somewhere in the region of about 85%. Absolutely crazy figure.

[Dcubed]

I work with a guy that used to be pretty high up at EA back in the late 00's. He was saying to me recently that Sony and Microsoft have huge conversion rates for getting children that grew up on Nintendo consoles to switch over, somewhere in the region of about 85%. Absolutely crazy figure.

 

Shu Yoshida has said much the same thing a few times over the years. In fact, he has also said that Nintendo's recent struggles are a big problem for Sony because they relied a lot on Nintendo introducing children to gaming in general.

 

With Nintendo struggling to capture children right now, that's gonna come with some ramifications for Sony and MS down the line as well...

Edited February 2, 2016 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

I work with a guy that used to be pretty high up at EA back in the late 00's. He was saying to me recently that Sony and Microsoft have huge conversion rates for getting children that grew up on Nintendo consoles to switch over, somewhere in the region of about 85%. Absolutely crazy figure.

 

That is pretty high.

 

I suppose it does make sense. The rise of communicating online/online gaming, coupled with socialising more as a teenager, makes for an easy catch if your consoles allow for both of these things.