Twilight Princess HD (4th March)

[somme]

I never said I wanted the new Zelda to be like the Witcher 3 but W3 is evidence enough that big open world games don't have to be bland and empty.

 

You could have hundreds of little towns in Zelda, made up of weird and interesting peoples each with a few side quests each. From rounding up cuckoos (sp?) and pigs to saving the town from enemies to mini dungeons nearby with puzzles. For example you could have a frozen village, its inhabitants all frozen solid, you have to find a cave nearby and solve a puzzle to unfreeze them.

 

The possibilities are endless. If you can only imagine Zelda having a bland, lifeless world then that's a lack of imagination on your part.

[markderoos]

I know nothing. True now. True always.

 

Is that you, Jon Snow??

I thought you were gone...!

 

[Grazza]

There are certain things Twilight Princess got exactly right, and one of them is the size of the overworld.

 

Some say it's lifeless. OK, maybe they could fill it with birds, butterflies etc, but to me that's just superficial detail. Skyward Sword had that, and it was no replacement for TP's sense of scale.

 

It's very important to use large areas of space in design, even if there's not an awful lot in them. Twilight Princess contains some grand architectural details, for instance - Lake Hylia Bridge, Hyrule Castle, Eldin Bridge. It wouldn't speak to the same part of your psyche if they were right next to each other.

 

The quality of TP's overworld was limited by the technology, but the ambition of scale was just right. After all, it was still smaller than Wind Waker's Great Sea, which I'd argue was just about perfect. If I recall correctly, the last time we saw "Zelda Wii U" (cough) it was intended to be much larger than TP, and far more like WW, but on dry land. That may well be the logical limit for a Zelda game, but I for one am glad they're back on that track.

[Hogge]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a surprise Christmas game this year. Let's face it, they need something.

 

Agreed.

 

Not to mention that I think a re-release could be a good opportunity to see if the market's ready for voice-acted Zeldas.

 

Also, while I know it ain't happening, I really want Nintendo to completely redesign the overworld for TP, as it IMO was horrendous.

[Sheikah]

The Wii version is around 1.2GB, a HD port wouldn't be much bigger than that (especially as Zelda renders cut-scenes in the engine, so no HD video files needed).

 

I see no reason why they wouldn't do what they did with Wind Waker. It's gonna be at least a few GB (HD textures and all) and even then, there are younger people with no eShop access and such. If Terraria can get a retail release for consoles, this certainly can!

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Guys, how would you feel if it was a remake/port for the 3DS?

 

[Guy]

Considering how awful Twilight Princess looked on Wii, definitely don't want it looking even worse on those horrible little 3DS screens.

[Hero-of-Time]

Considering how awful Twilight Princess looked on Wii, definitely don't want it looking even worse on those horrible little 3DS screens.

 

Yup.

 

For me, I would much prefer a HD version over a handheld one. Besides, the 3DS already has Triforce Heroes. It's the Wii U that could do with some Zelda love.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Hero-of-Time

[Ashley]

It's the Wii U that could do with some Zelda live.

 

Just watch this on your GamePad:

 

 

SEEWHATIDIDTHERE?!

[Grazza]

The next time we see Twilight Princess it has to be HD. Maybe if Nintendo's next handheld is 720p, that'd be OK, but not on the 3DS.

[Emasher]

This would certainly explain why the series hasn't been represented alongside Nintendo's other flagships when it comes to Wii games on the Wii U Virtual Console.

 

As far as file size goes, it will probably be increased more than Wind Waker's was. I'm pretty sure Twilight Princess has a lot more textures than Wind Waker, and the game will need higher resolution textures to look half decent at 1080p. Considering Twilight Princess's textures are also a lot more complex visually, they probably won't be able to compress them as much.

 

For me, Zelda games have always been about the exploration. The original Zelda--right on it's box--had the phrase "Experience the challenge of endless adventure." Now, obviously, the game is finite; it doesn't generate any new content dynamically. The game is so big however, that without some sort of guide, it would be nearly impossible to determine if you had found everything. There were areas you had to burn down a bush to access, yet the game had hundreds of bushes. Without knowing exactly which ones contained hidden staircases, there could always be another with something really cool under it that you just hadn't found yet. As the games got more complicated, this only makes it seem more likely that there's something hidden just outside of what you've already discovered.

 

It's not as if Nintendo hasn't put really elaborate hidden secrets into their games either. I remember playing the 3rd generation Pokemon games with my friends when I was a kid (probably about 12), and trying to figure out the secrets involved in getting to the Regis. Figuring that one thing out however, led us to search for all sorts of other secrets in Pokemon games, including impossible things like trying to get to the tall grass on either side of Pallet Town, and so on (It perhaps didn't help that one of my 'friends' back then was a massive narcissist who liked to make stuff up about games to get attention).

 

Zelda games have always been particularly good at this sort of exploration. The metroidvania style--permanent upgrades unlocking new paths--gives a huge incentive to re-visit previous areas. You're always hoping to find that one branch of a cave that you didn't notice last time you went through because you didn't have the right item to open it yet. Twilight princess's large world should have done this particularly well. The large world should have given lots of opportunities to go looking for things that weren't really there, and a great deal of hidden goodies to encourage the former. The problem it had wasn't so much that the secrets were too spread out, but that they just weren't hidden well enough in most cases. You could see places to latch the claw shot to, or spinner rails from a mile away. There was little reason to explore, because you could tell, without much time spent searching, if there was something to find in the first place.

 

Twilight Princess also had that issue of money being the reward for nearly every feat of exploration, and the game not having that much use for money in the first place. Even pieces of heart weren't all that valuable compared to previous games, since you needed 5 of them for a new heart container. Twilight Princess had far fewer optional items as well compared to many of the previous games, and the ones you did get weren't really the result of exploring, most of them were simply purchased.

 

The fact that the world was so large probably did help a lot in that even if a lot of 'secrets' were pretty obvious, you did at least have to traverse a lot of terrain in order to find them. It just would have been nice if they were a little better hidden in the first place.

[Jonnas]

You could see places to latch the claw shot to, or spinner rails from a mile away. There was little reason to explore, because you could tell, without much time spent searching, if there was something to find in the first place.

 

Twilight Princess also had that issue of money being the reward for nearly every feat of exploration, and the game not having that much use for money in the first place. [...] Twilight Princess had far fewer optional items as well compared to many of the previous games, and the ones you did get weren't really the result of exploring, most of them were simply purchased.

 

The fact that the world was so large probably did help a lot in that even if a lot of 'secrets' were pretty obvious, you did at least have to traverse a lot of terrain in order to find them. It just would have been nice if they were a little better hidden in the first place.

 

This right here is my main issue with Twilight Princess. It's not that the game has fewer things to find, or less area to explore, or even emptier places: it's that the game is badly designed.

 

In OoT, the Hookshot was the best item because its function was tied into the world, it allowed you to latch onto trees, chests, roofs, etc. In TP, the clawshot allows you to latch onto targets, and only targets. OoT let you believe there was no clear path even when there is one, but TP always tells you there's only one true path to wherever you want to go, it's counterproductive to the adventure/metroidvania genre that Zelda needs to be.

 

The money thing is the worst. The moment I became disenchanted with the game was in Lake Hylia, when I found a cave with a spiraling maze inside, and I thought it was pretty cool, and at the end of it I found a chest... with rupees inside. That I had to put back in the chest (like I would go on to do with the majority of chests at the Lakebed Temple). Well, fuck you too, game.

 

And then there are blatant design flaws, like this

 

 

Every previous 3D Zelda allows you to switch between night and day, how come they suddenly forgot that? But at least the souls end up giving more than just rupees in the end, unlike the bugs.

 

Yeah, if there is such a thing as Twilight Princess HD in the works, they have a lot to fix in order to get me interested. It will not suffice to give it another coat of paint and add an extra item.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Ignore the over-excitement, I think this guy makes some good points re marketing etc.

 

[Glen-i]

You know, the Poe side quest in Twilight Princess is the only thing in official Zelda game history that I just flat out didn't bother with. (Barring A Link Between Worlds, because I'm playing that properly now, 16 QUID!)

And I got every figurine in the original Wind Waker!

 

That's the one thing I would want streamlined the most.

[Grazza]

That cartoon.

 

Ah, it's all coming back to me now. Twilight Princess did have a lot of issues, but I fundamentally love aspects of it, if that makes sense. It was interesting but imperfect, rather than a lesser idea done perfectly.

 

By the way, the "putting rupees back in the chest" thing has got to be the closest thing to an agreed problem, hasn't it? If they were going to do a full OOT/MM/WW-style remake, I mean. Didn't it also keep stopping you to explain rupee value each time too?

 

Generally speaking, the great things about Twilight Princess are the things in the 2004 trailer (before it was known as Twilight Princess, in fact) - Adult Link, horseback travel, large fields, huge overworld, dungeons, bosses and general tone. Plus, I actually think it has one of the better Zelda soundtracks, especially when you hear it orchestrated. I don't think the game needed to be a lot more complicated than I've already described, to be honest, as long as it was built as solidly as previous Zeldas (which it wasn't - quite).

 

I'd say it started to go wrong when they felt they needed a "hook" for it (the wolf sections), and then even more when it was shaped by their Wii-era philosophy. Both versions of the game were forever affected by that. I often mention the controls, but don't forget the beginning of the game was massively padded-out, with an unnecessary item added (Slingshot), all making it take much longer to get to the first dungeon. Somewhat irritating if you only wanted the GameCube version.

 

Generally, my memory of Twilight Princess is of following scent trails, and being disorientated at first within the overworld. Not a terrible thing, I suppose, but it was as though the game wanted to get you to certain points for the purpose of story scenes, rather than letting you learn the overworld itself. I've always thought having no "real" way to travel between Lake Hylia and Zora's Domain (apart from mini-games) broke the illusion of a cohesive game world.

 

Still, there was something about Twilight Princess. It really captured my imagination, rather than being something I'd rather not play again, so it can't be that bad. It think it could do with the true remake treatment in order to fix some of these issues, rather than just an HD version. But either would be pretty welcome, and it certainly has a lot to base future games upon, if not the whole lot.

[Glen-i]

I'd say it started to go wrong when they felt they needed a "hook" for it (the wolf sections), and then even more when it was shaped by their Wii-era philosophy.

 

You know, Wolf Link was something that I think got better as the game progressed. Once you got past the annoying tears of light sections. Wolf Link was used in some pretty cool ways. Fighting ghostly enemies and that face-off with Beast Ganon, stuff like that.

 

Personally, I could never play the Gamecube version after having the superior aiming of the Wii version. I have the same problem with Resident Evil 4. Pointing will always beat Stick aiming.

 

If TP HD does happen and it doesn't support the Wii remote pointing. I would just not buy it. You can state how Link's not lefty in it or how it's just mirrored version of the GC game. But I can hit any enemy with the bow from any distance without missing! I have widescreen support!

And more importantly...

 

I can cut grass while running!

Edited October 19, 2015 by Glen-i

[Grazza]

If TP HD does happen and it doesn't support the Wii remote pointing. I would just not buy it. You can state how Link's not lefty in it or how it's just mirrored version of the GC game. But I can hit any enemy with the bow from any distance without missing! I have widescreen support!

And more importantly...

 

I can cut grass while running!

 

You can do that in the GameCube version too.

 

The simplest way would be to have a traditional version, which can be mirrored for those who want motion controls.

[Glen-i]

You can do that in the GameCube version too.

 

The simplest way would be to have a traditional version, which can be mirrored for those who want motion controls.

 

Wait, really? Huh...

 

Fine, but I bet you can't move Link while aiming!

Makes you feel like a total boss during the Hidden Village. I love plowing through that section with nothing but a Bow. (No Hawkeye, because that's for non-pointing chumps!)

 

EDIT: Also, I can equip 4 items at once!

[Jonnas]

(No Hawkeye, because that's for non-pointing chumps!)

 

I remember doing that pole challenge in Kakariko Village on my first try*, way before learning about the Hawkeye's existence. They should have similar challenges, where the player can't use that hax.

 

*(Gamecube version, btw. Who's the chump now? )

[WackerJr]

An HD update for a lot of Wii games makes sense from a commercial point of view. Nintendo reeled in a lot of casual gamers with the Wii, and I doubt the majority ended up playing games such as Last Story, Pandora's Tower, etc. Going back to play them now, the contrast in graphical quality is clear, especially on newer TVs. I guess two main things to consider are 1) whether out of the WiiU owners are Nintendo's core fans who have already played those games, and 2) whether the cost of upgrading these games can be justified.

 

I'd love to see and play an HD Twilight Princess. Yes it had more flaws than many other Zelda games, but it was also more ambitious with it's sheer size and scale, so there were many excellent ideas in there too. It will be good for those existing WiiU owners although I can't see it improving the WiiU sales.

[Hero-of-Time]

Posted this in the Wii U thread but may as well slam it in here as well.

 

CEO Tatsumi Kimishima says there are more titles–unannounced–coming this year to promote both Wii U and 3DS during the year-end holiday season.

 

Then there is also this...

 

 

Does this Link look familiar? It should.

 

 

Looks like they've put some kind of Skyward Sword filter on or something?

[Ike]

Looks like they've put some kind of Skyward Sword filter on or something?

 

Looks like it, yeah. I hope they didn't do that to the remake, it doesn't really fit with the tone of the game.

[dazzybee]

When they say this year do they mean up to March? I don't understand why they'd leave it so late to a announce a game release in the next 2 months, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Cube]

When they say this year do they mean up to March? I don't understand why they'd leave it so late to a announce a game release in the next 2 months, doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

"Holiday Season" = November/December. Probably a few eShop-only games like Twilight Princess HD.

[Ronnie]

I'd like to believe it's from Twilight Princess HD but could just be the Skyward Sword model in a new pose they rendered for that graphic. Then again why bother rendering a new one... hmmmm....