Nicktendo Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 You seem to be arguing with yourself - people buy a console if they see a game they want to play; yet you then said this didn't happen with Platoon, mario maker and mario kart 8 - make up your mind. Plus many other ps4 owners telling me nintendo games would sell more on ps4 because people don't want to buy a console to play nintendo games but would love to if they were on a ps4. Not really. I said software sells systems, but if people don't know about that software then it can't and won't sell them. Nintendo is larely ignored by the popular gaming media (take their ridiculous YouTube policy for example), therefore if Nintendo want their games to be seen, they need to do more from a marketing perspective. Nintendo games on a PS4 will never happen, so Nintendo need to market to casuals, and these gamers that their games a WORTH buying a Nintendo console for, because they can't be played elsewhere.
Kav Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 @dazzybee, on the lack of 3rd Parties... 3rd Parties will only port games if the system architecture is similar to the other consoles. Even though the WiiU was as powerful as the 360 & PS3, 3rd Parties had to pass porting duties to other teams/companies to port their games because the architecture was too different and they were too busy to do it themselves given that they were creating the 360/PS4 versions... then given the returns made on WiiU version, the cost of it all was too much to make it worthwhile porting across. If the architecture is similar then these costs will be driven down and it may be worthwhile porting.
khilafah Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Don't think I can argue against this article. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-28-nx-is-different-and-different-is-nintendos-best-option I am excited about playing Zelda and DQXI on a handheld. Edited July 28, 2016 by khilafah
Ronnie Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Don't think I can argue against this article. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-28-nx-is-different-and-different-is-nintendos-best-option I am excited about playing Zelda and DQXI on a handheld. Great read. Sums things up nicely.
liger05 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 To me this is a handheld with TV out. Unless some other new comes out I wouldn't call it a hybrid.
Pestneb Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) It's this mentality that is putting Nintendo in this gimmick zone. When Nintendo did compete and make right moves ala the Snes it was the most relevant console available. Even the N64, while making the wrong move in still using cartridges and limiting 3rd party support - it was still clearing house - and Nintendo were cocky AF with it, with adverts like "the most powerful console on the planet" and "You can't play this on PlayStation!". Nintendo arguably haven't even TRIED to compete yet in making a powerful console with a standard medium, a decent online environment and architecture and a standard controller - so I don't how people can point blank say they can't compete - when they can release (with partners) an effectively shitty app technically in Pokemon Go and hit jackpot in a matter of weeks. Point is ultimately its SOFTWARE that will push a system. I think the difference is the aim of the companies. Both Sony and Microsoft have wider business interests that are served by advancing their hardware. Take Blu-Ray.. Sony was able to use the playstation brand to help make it the dominant format. Microsoft have used the Xbox to connect users to their other products and services. Nintendo only need hardware that enables their software. having the ability to innovate and push the boundaries - for Nintendo games aren't just software, they are a marriage of hardware and software. They don't search for a new thing to add just to say "hey look, now we have this too!" they add to hardware to explore new possibilities with their game making art. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.. but that is why Nintendo make their own hardware. Even with their move into mobile gaming, I do think that it is aimed principally at increasing public awareness of Nintendo IP... maybe that will change over time (perhaps it will have to) but for now the returns for them as a company investing heavily in their console offers them limited returns. Sony and Microsoft can justify certain costs in light of their other business interests... Nintendo wouldn't be able to. It would be an increasingly large gamble. Also... Major 3rd party developers are dwindling. Increasingly on the Wii U obviously, but I understand it is the case on other consoles too, games are coming from smaller developers who maybe won't be pushing the console right to its limits anyway.... If Nintendo don't want to be investing £10million into a game that will only make £10.1 million, and would rather invest £5Million into a game that will make 6 Million instead... perhaps indies would be comfortable creating a game that costs them £50k and makes them £60k rather than investing £100k for a £101k profit... I like my 3ds... but I far prefer my Wii U. This is the successor to the 3ds.. I'm sorry but 1) it is portable. I can play the console where ever I want, if I want to play on mount everest (and I can get up there alive) I can do that just as easily as playing in a train, or plane, or home, or in my garden. 2) it uses cartridges. Nintendo hasn't used carts in a home console for almost 2 decades. The only reason it is using carts now (with seemingly a limit of 32gb in most cases) is to save battery for its handheld... 3) it has a battery. Not in the controller, a battery to power the console itself. It may be a very nice handheld... but that is all it is. The fact you can use an external screen with it doesn't suddenly make it a home console. Now if the dock has extra grunt with active cooling, possibly internal storage etc... maybe it qualifies as a hybrid. But for now, what the rumour has revealed so far, we just have a super 3ds with potentially just 1 screen instead of two (3SS?), a beefier processor and an interface to send signal to the tv screen. I'm pretty sure a tech head could butcher a 3ds to make a docking station that could hijack the video out signal from the top screen of the 3ds and send it to a tv screen... that's all this console seems to be from the info given. Edited July 28, 2016 by Pestneb Automerged Doublepost
khilafah Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 I like my 3ds... but I far prefer my Wii U. This is the successor to the 3ds.. I'm sorry but 1) it is portable. I can play the console where ever I want, if I want to play on mount everest (and I can get up there alive) I can do that just as easily as playing in a train, or plane, or home, or in my garden. 2) it uses cartridges. Nintendo hasn't used carts in a home console for almost 2 decades. The only reason it is using carts now (with seemingly a limit of 32gb in most cases) is to save battery for its handheld... 3) it has a battery. Not in the controller, a battery to power the console itself. It may be a very nice handheld... but that is all it is. The fact you can use an external screen with it doesn't suddenly make it a home console. Now if the dock has extra grunt with active cooling, possibly internal storage etc... maybe it qualifies as a hybrid. But for now, what the rumour has revealed so far, we just have a super 3ds with potentially just 1 screen instead of two (3SS?), a beefier processor and an interface to send signal to the tv screen. I'm pretty sure a tech head could butcher a 3ds to make a docking station that could hijack the video out signal from the top screen of the 3ds and send it to a tv screen... that's all this console seems to be from the info given. And that's why people should treat it as a handheld. Stop looking at it as home console. Nintendo know that handheld is where they do their best business. They was never gonna release a home console before the next handheld.
david.dakota Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 No lies, I'm scepticle but curious to see some formal announcement. Ultimately, at least for me, it's down to the games so the form factor is not that important; I think it looks decent enough for a handheld, streaming the content to the TV would be neat too (and I suspect that's how i'll play the grander games). It's perhaps not really what I wanted, it's so frustrating not seeing Mario, Zelda and Samus on top tier hardware, but I think those who were expecting Neo-level hardware were always going to be disappointed. The detachable controllers also seem pretty neat, I can see this being used as in car entertainment for nippers (and prats in Teslas). I've some major reservations though; streaming 720p or 1080p at 60fps with multichannel audio is going to be a challenge for them. That's a lot of bandwidth - has their streaming tech progressed enough? I really, really don't want this to comprimise the big screen-experience and fear this may happen. Maybe the dock relates to the patent of a Supplemental Computing Device, offloading processing from the main hardware? And, again, I worry about their services and infastructure. Hopefully, they'll take this opportunity to catch up - with Steam, iOS, Android, Xbox and PS4.... But the hardware choice seems to demonstrate that they retain that insular perspective which has not served them well in the past (at least when it comes to services). Please bring us Family Sharing Nintendo As a side note, as frustrating as Nintendo has been for keeping NX such as guarded secret, it is their call and I think it's a big shame that Eurogamer ran with the article in the way it did. Companies have the right to set their own agenda and that includes product announcements; of course I'm sure that Eurogamer would claim the public interest was there to justify their decision to publish (proved by the fact I read the article, I suppose..) but I feel it's ultimetely beefing up their journalistic reputations at Nintendo's expense.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 You say 3rd parties want to port, well how come they stopped porting 360 and ps3 games to wii u very quickly then even though they were making games for those platforms? Having power parity didn't help there! And agin, you keep saying you'll hate Pikmin on an 8" screen, play it on your tele then!!!!! Why do you keep saying this! It's mental you keep saying you don't want to play games on an 8" screen when you don't have to, truly truly bizarre. Your argument is you think the home console power is being gimped for hanhehd. Stick to that argument. Not this utterly nonsensical don't want to play it on an 8" screen! In response to the bolded part, Dazzy, please be respectful with your comments - as I am with you. Refrain from demeaning my opinion and sensibility --- please? Third parties stopped porting for the Wii U because it simply wasn't worth it with the extra effort of having to make the port gamepad compliant - and when they are looking forward to filling games for a new generation, who wants to put time, effort and money in reworking games for a controller even Nintendo themselves under utilised and have later admitted (Aonuma) that the gamepad is a chumbersome device. I'm re-iterating my point of playing grand games on a small screen, well, because its an important point - and quiet frankly I can say that as many times as I want to - hit your ignore button if it bugs you rather than mental over use of the exclamation mark. Home console games on the go is nothing revolutionary and it does in fact tie in with my point of the home console experience being gimped for it.
Blade Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 I'm now eager to see this thing announced and details of how it works.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 To me this is a handheld with TV out. Unless some other new comes out I wouldn't call it a hybrid. Yeah, lets just call it a handheld then - its not even a hybrid - its more akin to being a GB with a GB player.
Blade Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Yeah, lets just call it a handheld then - its not even a hybrid - its more akin to being a GB with a GB player. This is exactly how i've been reading things. I really do hope the hole console experience isn't gimped. We'll have to see.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 This is exactly how i've been reading things. I really do hope the hole console experience isn't gimped. We'll have to see. Kind of reminds me of this too (if the inspiration is console games on the go)
Ashley Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Oh Double Dash... And yes, please be respectful of other people's opinions even if you think they're whackadoodle.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Microsoft and Sony had nothing new to offer so just upped the specs of their consoles basically.. so power was the only differentiator, along with games that meant users were compelled to upgrade to enjoy the latest games fully. If it ain't broke, why fix it? We ALL appreciate a beautiful game with a full scale soundtrack - in fact power was the N64's mantra and gloating point over the competition then. I feel Sony and Microsoft's straightforward approach in making obvious upgrades and keeping their controllers the same have helped game developers put full creativity in the game (scope, scale, story, soundtrack). Even as not a real Sony or Micro fan, I feel these two have aided in keeping the traditional gaming hobby alive, consistent and relevant. In some sense also a safe haven - I know if this NX experiment doesn't work out I would get all I need in gaming from the PS4.
Nicktendo Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) If it ain't broke, why fix it? We ALL appreciate a beautiful game with a full scale soundtrack - in fact power was the N64's mantra and gloating point over the competition then. I feel Sony and Microsoft's straightforward approach in making obvious upgrades and keeping their controllers the same have helped game developers put full creativity in the game (scope, scale, story, soundtrack). Even as not a real Sony or Micro fan, I feel these two have aided in keeping the traditional gaming hobby alive, consistent and relevant. In some sense also a safe haven - I know if this NX experiment doesn't work out I would get all I need in gaming from the PS4. I think quite the opposite, and that Sony and Microsoft's safe approach as you describe it is what's going to end up being the death of gaming in it's current form. The amount of money these big budget titles demand is constantly growing, and the profit margins are getting smaller and smaller (unless you're Rockstar or Activision). A huge number of companies have gone under in the past 10 years for exactly this reason. Innovation comes with huge risk and generally the most profitable titles are those which receive yearly updates or have big brand names. Namely your FIFAs and your CoDs etc. I'm not for one second saying innovation is non-existent, but one could argue how the need to make a profit would either stifle it or force a developer to "play it safe". Now I admit that I don't own a next generation console but I've read many complaints both on here and through friends that the PS4 and Xbox One have been disappointments. I'm sure there are plenty of great games which have huge scope / scale and do things which were simply not possible on previous generation tech, but at what cost? As for story and soundtrack, I think you could argue that the tech doesn't matter as much, but how it's used. And for how long can it be kept up? GTA5 cost 100 million dollars (or more?) to make, how many other developers would be prepared to make that kind of investment? Granted a GTA game was always guaranteed to make that kind of cash back in a matter of days! Mobile and indy games have shown that developers can make a tidy profit where this kind of beefy hardware isn't a development requirement and I genuinely believe Nintendo is making the right decision by going down this road. It was a choice between possible death or certain death Edited July 28, 2016 by Nicktendo
darksnowman Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 I think quite the opposite, and that Sony and Microsoft's safe approach as you describe it is what's going to end up being the death of gaming in it's current form. The amount of money these big budget titles demand is constantly growing, and the profit margins are getting smaller and smaller (unless you're Rockstar or Activision). Exactly. The amount of money it takes to make blockbuster games is obsene. Going back to the N64, it's innovation was taking us to polygonal gaming. The Gamecube then consolidated this with more power/ nicer graphics and sound. Where were Nintendo meant to go next? More power again and again? Personally, I think they did the right thing going with the DS (third pillar) and Wii. Sure they infuriate with their archaic ways but the fact that Nintendo strive to keep it fresh and are willing to experiment is what keeps us interested and what keeps it fun for us, and them, as the developer.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 I think quite the opposite, and that Sony and Microsoft's safe approach as you describe it is what's going to end up being the death of gaming in it's current form. The amount of money these big budget titles demand is constantly growing, and the profit margins are getting smaller and smaller (unless you're Rockstar or Activision). But that's happening all over the entertainment industry - bigger budgets etc. I don't have the figures but I would imagine good and well marketed games are making a profit for their respective companies. I hear indies are having a good time too and they seem to have established a good home on the PlayStation. There definitely are no saints here, when Nintendo were the dominant force their rigid licencing practices were far from liberating for developers. And I really hate the way Nintendo seems to want to dictate to me how I should be playing games - most notable annoyance being forced to play Skyward sword with motion controls - as if I've had a burning issue with playing games with a standard control pad for the last 30 years.
liger05 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Game budgets are going up but are studios going out of business? If big budget games are selling what's the problem? Not every game needs to cost £100 mil.
Nicktendo Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 But that's happening all over the entertainment industry - bigger budgets etc. I don't have the figures but I would imagine good and well marketed games are making a profit for their respective companies. I hear indies are having a good time too and they seem to have established a good home on the PlayStation. There definitely are no saints here, when Nintendo were the dominant force their rigid licencing practices were far from liberating for developers. And I really hate the way Nintendo seems to want to dictate to me how I should be playing games - most notable annoyance being forced to play Skyward sword with motion controls - as if I've had a burning issue with playing games with a standard control pad for the last 30 years. Sure it's happening everywhere, especially in film. But Hollywood films are mostly garbage and a good low budget Indy film can still make a decent profit, people vote with their wallets. Marketing plays a role for sure, yet more money. When is it going to be too much though? Are people going to pay £20 for a cinema ticket? The same is happening football, which is unsustainable and heading for a big crash in the future. It's obscene. Gaming is in someways becoming a copy of the film industry with microtransatcions etc. grinding more and more money out of the consumer. People only have so much disposable income. That means people will buy less games, see less films, skip a week of the football. Nintendo did what was necessary in the 80s to ensure the survival of their video games market, now their doing the same, but in a different way. It's really very simple in my view. Don't like the look for a film? Don't go see it. Don't like the price of your local team's football match? Don't go. Don't like motion controls? Don't buy the game. Nintendo is doing what they need to do to survive. Nobody is dictating anything. If enough people do like what they're doing, they will buy their products and Nintendo will continue down their chosen path. If not, they'll do something else until they go bust when enough consumers reject what's offered to them.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Sure it's happening everywhere, especially in film. But Hollywood films are mostly garbage and a good low budget Indy film can still make a decent profit, people vote with their wallets. Marketing plays a role for sure, yet more money. When is it going to be too much though? Are people going to pay £20 for a cinema ticket? The same is happening football, which is unsustainable and heading for a big crash in the future. It's obscene. Gaming is in someways becoming a copy of the film industry with microtransatcions etc. grinding more and more money out of the consumer. People only have so much disposable income. That means people will buy less games, see less films, skip a week of the football. But that's not happening - people are still paying high prices for season tickets, people are still paying high price tickets to see 3D films in cinemas - I'm sure even in the depths of a recession people will still seek entertainment and pay the price. Does it make sense? to answer that would be to answer the nature of Man. Don't like motion controls? Don't buy the game. Nintendo is doing what they need to do to survive. Nobody is dictating anything. If enough people do like what they're doing, they will buy their products and Nintendo will continue down their chosen path. If not, they'll do something else until they go bust when enough consumers reject what's offered to them That's the somewhat manipulative dilemma - video games are an integral part of the lives of people who consider it a hobby. After being raised on OOT, MM and WW - I'm still going to want to experience TP and SS off the back of the aforementioned. "Don't buy the game" is a very easy thing to say (though in hindsight if I knew what SS contained, with or without motion controls, I wouldn't have bought it). I would say the estimation of selling 100 million Wii Us versus the actual of 13 million is a good enough conclusion to state that a large number of gamers have rejected their recent strategy of relying on a gimmick to pull in consumers. Edited July 28, 2016 by King_V
Nicktendo Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 But that's not happening - people are still paying high prices for season tickets, people are still paying high price tickets to see 3D films in cinemas - I'm sure even in the depths of a recession people will still seek entertainment and pay the price. Does it make sense? to answer that would be to answer the nature of Man. I know it's still happening, when I come back to the UK I'll subscribe to sky sports and go to Leeds games despite being appalled by the price! I know, I'm a sucker. Eventually there will be a line, which each person will draw when they don't feel they get their money's worth. I did that with cinema going years ago and with having a second home console before this gen. Gaming is a hobby, a time killer or a form of entertainment. As budgets go up, so does the price for the consumer. One by one they'll say enough is enough and find something else to spend their money on.
liger05 Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 I know it's still happening, when I come back to the UK I'll subscribe to sky sports and go to Leeds games despite being appalled by the price! I know, I'm a sucker. Eventually there will be a line, which each person will draw when they don't feel they get their money's worth. I did that with cinema going years ago and with having a second home console before this gen. Gaming is a hobby, a time killer or a form of entertainment. As budgets go up, so does the price for the consumer. One by one they'll say enough is enough and find something else to spend their money on. Is that true? People said the same thing last gen and then the PS4 sold gangbusters and XB1 still sold significant units. You have MS and Sony releasing new consoles earlier than usual. The market seems to suggest gaming is as popular as ever.
Nicktendo Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 Is that true? People said the same thing last gen and then the PS4 sold gangbusters and XB1 still sold significant units. I don't disagree with you at all, but it would be interesting to see how much Sony and Microsoft spend on development and marketing now, compared to 2006 and whether they are making more or less percentage profit. Microsoft has already announced that Xbox games are coming to PC as cross buy for the windows store. To me that's an admission that their home console division is failing.
Sheikah Posted July 28, 2016 Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Sure it's happening everywhere, especially in film. But Hollywood films are mostly garbage and a good low budget Indy film can still make a decent profit, people vote with their wallets. Marketing plays a role for sure, yet more money. When is it going to be too much though? Are people going to pay £20 for a cinema ticket? The same is happening football, which is unsustainable and heading for a big crash in the future. It's obscene. Gaming is in someways becoming a copy of the film industry with microtransatcions etc. grinding more and more money out of the consumer. People only have so much disposable income. That means people will buy less games, see less films, skip a week of the football. Nintendo did what was necessary in the 80s to ensure the survival of their video games market, now their doing the same, but in a different way. It's really very simple in my view. Don't like the look for a film? Don't go see it. Don't like the price of your local team's football match? Don't go. Don't like motion controls? Don't buy the game. Nintendo is doing what they need to do to survive. Nobody is dictating anything. If enough people do like what they're doing, they will buy their products and Nintendo will continue down their chosen path. If not, they'll do something else until they go bust when enough consumers reject what's offered to them. I disagree that gaming is going that way. Back in 1998 games for the N64 were £50, some £60 (CBFD for instance). PS2 games were also £40 (same as PS4 games now). If anything gaming has gotten cheaper as £50 then would be even more in today's money. There's also a lot of free to play games today unlike back then, which are typically sustained by those microtransactions. Microtransactions are totally optional and mean that people who want to pay them basically pay for the people who don't (who play for free). They can be in paid for games but again, they're still optional. Also humble bundles. No way did you get quality games as dirt cheap as that 10-15 years ago. Edited July 28, 2016 by Sheikah
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