Ashley Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 It does look like they are. Hell, look at how they're handling Animal Crossing with the mobile/NX integration. It's going to be great. Look at every company that has released hardware then went to release software instead: Atari, Jaguar, Sega. You tell me it works. RE: Animal Crossing. All we know is there will be integration. We don't know with what games or consoles and you're already saying it's going to be great? RE: Other console makers. They're completely different companies, financial positions and times in history. Comparing what happened to Atari in 1994 to what would happen if Nintendo suddenly dropped out of hardware in ~2020 is a foolish comparison to make. Yes history hasn't been kind and you can learn from mistakes, but using that to say it'll never work for any company regardless of financial standing and time in history? And just to re-iterate I'm not saying they should, but I'm simply saying none of us know enough to claim to know the answer so it's good to get different interpretations and analyses. I'm not convinced a bigger userbase would mean bigger software sales to offset loss of hardware revenue. Is there really millions of people all wanting to play Mario kart or smash but refuse to buy a Nintendo console or handheld to do so? https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2016/160427e.pdf Page 14. Nintendo makes 42.7% of their revenue from video game hardware alone. It's a huge amount which software sales alone would need to recover. It's not a direct comparison with Sega as Nintendo have money in the bank while Sega had none however I remember when people said it will allow Sega to concentrate on games alone and we would continue to get all the great games they made on there own hardware................still waiting There might well be. It's difficult to know one way or another. Or, put it this way - there may not be people that currently want Smash/Mario etc that won't go out and buy a Wii U but can we measure the unknown market? Those that currently haven't heard of these games or not expressed a desire, but if its suddenly on a console they own, or if their friends are suddenly all playing it, would they then become a new currently untapped market? My point was we don't know how much money made from hardware is put back into hardware. If you stop making hardware yes you stop getting the money from that, but you also stop putting money into it in the first place. Their profits would dip but so would their R&D. That 42.7% figure is, if I'm correct, revenue not profit right? I never once compared it to Sega Sega has made a lot of bad decisions through and through which got them to where they are. I have more faith in Nintendo's ability to make smart decisions. But as I said to Serebii, I'm just trying to help open up the discussion by looking at a different angle.
Kounan Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Page 14. Nintendo makes 42.7% of their revenue from video game hardware alone. It's a huge amount which software sales alone would need to recover. You should look at profit it will say more than revenue as the profit margin is a lot larger on software than on hardware. If we just look at the profit I think that for them it would be the best to release only some of the games to other consoles, but they would have to choose carefully (I would release games as Captain Toad and similar stuff, games that don't move consoles and are in a group where they have enough games, but could be interesting to people who don't own the console).
Hogge Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Sounds like a Star Fox game to me :p Which brings me back to my age old argument: Games should evolve from entry to entry. The original Starfox layout was fine in 1997, when the closest competitor was the original Warhawk. Now games with a 6 hour campaign are considered to be short and have to be padded with a considerable multiplayer campaign. You can also play the game from Corneria to Venom without any Gyrowing sections... Not on your first playthrough...
liger05 Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 You should look at profit it will say more than revenue as the profit margin is a lot larger on software than on hardware. If we just look at the profit I think that for them it would be the best to release only some of the games to other consoles, but they would have to choose carefully (I would release games as Captain Toad and similar stuff, games that don't move consoles and are in a group where they have enough games, but could be interesting to people who don't own the console). But even that software profit margin would be effected by going third party as Nintendo would earn less on every game sold due to revenue split with MS and Sony.
Ashley Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 But even that software profit margin would be effected by going third party as Nintendo would earn less on every game sold due to revenue split with MS and Sony. Again it's difficult to know one way or another. They might get bigger sales that would offset the loss caused by the licensing. Who knows eh?
Pestneb Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 One of the main arguments is Nintendo need to move with the times... a lot of the complaints coming from multiplatform owners about Nintendo games.... Nintendo wouldn't suddenly say "ok, now we've scrapped the hardware side of things, lets change ethos and fix these software issues" I think the same reasons people say Nintendo should quit hardware are the exact same reasons Nintendo should stick in the hardware side of things. Sure Nintendo are unique, but every company is unique, and history has shown time and again that once the hardware side is stripped back the software sides of these companies suffers as a result. Yes we don't know Nintendo would die if they went software only, but I think the most likely outcome would be that the first generation would feel great (a console's worth of money saved + comparable games) then the second generation good.. third passable and from then a slow demise into obscurity. Having said that, it would be nice if Nintendo would pull all the stops out and give us an awesome console... I am remaining optimistic with the NX though, in anycase a launch purchase isn't sensible for me, I won't be able to give it proper play time till 2018/2019 so that will be plenty of time to see how it does
Kounan Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 But even that software profit margin would be effected by going third party as Nintendo would earn less on every game sold due to revenue split with MS and Sony. Yes, that's why I've said that if we just look at the profit the best thing for them would be to go third party with only certain software.
Serebii Posted May 2, 2016 Author Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Which brings me back to my age old argument:Games should evolve from entry to entry. The original Starfox layout was fine in 1997, when the closest competitor was the original Warhawk. Now games with a 6 hour campaign are considered to be short and have to be padded with a considerable multiplayer campaign. Star Fox has evolved from entry to entry though. That's what made people want it back to its roots. They also shouldn't have to shoehorn in an online if the game is considered "short" (i.e. it isn't an open world RPG). Granted, Star Fox SHOULD have one, but they shouldn't have to have one just because the campaign is shorter. Edited May 2, 2016 by Serebii
Ashley Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Star Fox has evolved from entry to entry though. That's what made people want it back to its roots. I've not played SFZ in any depth so this is not a personal opinion of that game, but just to say change != evolved and people wanting it back to its roots may not be indicative of an evolution of the series but rather what people may feel are unnecessary changes.
Serebii Posted May 2, 2016 Author Posted May 2, 2016 I've not played SFZ in any depth so this is not a personal opinion of that game, but just to say change != evolved and people wanting it back to its roots may not be indicative of an evolution of the series but rather what people may feel are unnecessary changes. You say that, but in a thread on GAF, many people were saying what they'd like for Star Fox to evolve, and they were pretty much describing a longer Star Fox Assault
Ashley Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 You say that, but in a thread on GAF, many people were saying what they'd like for Star Fox to evolve, and they were pretty much describing a longer Star Fox Assault You really need to get off GAF... But if I'm understanding you correctly you are saying: 1) Star Fox has evolved 2) People on GAF (and others) are describing their ideal and that sounds like SFA 3) Thus, people want it to go back to its roots and dislike the evolution? Could a different interpretation not be: 1) Star Fox has changed 2) People dislike this particular change, and want an adaptation/improvement on previous entries such as SFA 3) Thus, people do want evolution but do not feel that SFZ is the evolution from the franchise they would like - not that they want it to go back to their roots but rather the path of evolution is not their preferred
dazzybee Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 As I mentioned earlier it would be something that would be great to find out in a purely "what it" scenario. Given that the combined install bass of the PS4 and One is six times greater than the Wii U (excluding the inevitable overlap which is difficult to track) it would be interesting to see what the sales would be like. Oh absolutely, but I put it in the same bracket as what would have happened if sony and nintendo made the CD drive. It would be fascinating but it's not something I'd want to see and think it would be pretty terrible for nintendo. IF it did happen, then I'd want nintendo to only agree if they designed the pad. Well they pretty much have designed it, but sort the ergonomics and sticks out. And forced folders
Ashley Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 IF it did happen, then I'd want nintendo to only agree if they designed the pad. Well they pretty much have designed it, but sort the ergonomics and sticks out. Only if we can agree no screen. And analogue shoulder buttons. Deal? And forced folders Naturally
dazzybee Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Only if we can agree no screen. And analogue shoulder buttons. Deal? Naturally Ha. Deal!
Clownferret Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Why are we discussing Nintendo going software only AGAIN?! Nintendo make hardware, it's a huge part of their business. They are not going to make half of their employees redundant and stop making consoles. It's like saying to Toyota stop making cars and just make electric engines instead.
somme Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Have Toyota made really rubbish cars for the last five years?
nekunando Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Have Toyota made really rubbish cars for the last five years? They didn't have party chat
Kav Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 If Toyota announced that they were making a games console at E3, a part of me would think they might actually do a better job than Nintendo with the hardware. I need NX info asap to either stop any needless worrying I have or to just put me out of my misery and confirm that I don't need Nintendo consoles anymore.
Hogge Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Star Fox has evolved from entry to entry though. That's what made people want it back to its roots. They also shouldn't have to shoehorn in an online if the game is considered "short" (i.e. it isn't an open world RPG). Granted, Star Fox SHOULD have one, but they shouldn't have to have one just because the campaign is shorter. There was no evolution, except maybe in graphics. The "strategic" gameplay in Starfox Command was not appreciated, the on-foot sections of Assault killed the whole rest of the game. Yet again: Nintendo keep on shoehorning gimmicks instead of actually improving their games. In other words: if Nintendo don't aim to improve their games in every measurable way, they're doing it wrong. Sorry, but in 2016 people expect to get a certain ammount of moneys worth. Heck, I was on a lecture by a french game designer last week who said outright: Game publishers used to have short, linear singleplayer campaigns, because "people don't finish their games anyway, so let's just make stuff that looks epic in trailers". Now they've realised that's wrong, because nowadays a lot of people finish their games as quickly as possible and then sell them on before they lose in value, which causes publishers lower profits. So publishers now aim more to add longer singleplayer campaigns, as well as giving players the possibility to replay the missions and do things differently.
Happenstance Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Why are we discussing Nintendo going software only AGAIN?! Because people are interested in discussing it Who cares if it will ever happen or could ever happen. Its just an interesting what if scenario.
Ashley Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Yeah and as we know now there's at least another 2, but probably more, months where we won't know anything about the NX it's going to be filled with other things. Maybe we'll get back to voice chat soon.
Goafer Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Maybe we'll get back to voice chat soon. I hear that's the number one repeated quote at Nintendo HQ.
dazzybee Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Surprised no one has mentioned the cart makers saying they're working with nintendo and people presuming they're going to use carts again. And wasn't there a precious rumour a year ago about it using carts. Hmmm. Maybe. Sounds more nx more like a proper hybrid to me! I'm a little tech ignorant in this regard, but I just think of n64 using carts and it single handedly fucking things up for Nintendo. Have things changed or would it yet be another mistake and barrier for 3rd parties?
Hogge Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) Surprised no one has mentioned the cart makers saying they're working with nintendo and people presuming they're going to use carts again. And wasn't there a precious rumour a year ago about it using carts. Hmmm. Maybe. Sounds more nx more like a proper hybrid to me! I'm a little tech ignorant in this regard, but I just think of n64 using carts and it single handedly fucking things up for Nintendo. Have things changed or would it yet be another mistake and barrier for 3rd parties? Back then carts were expensive, a figure I heard back then was that a boxed N64 game cost something like 10-20€ depending on the size of the cartridge, while a PS1 game would cost at most 3€. Nintendo had a monopoly on manufacturing and you had to order your cartridges so far in advance that games that sold beyond expectations wouldn't get second print runs. And of course there was the data storage capacity, which was very small on the N64. I believe that the largest cartridges on the N64's launch were only 4MB. Seeing that fairly sizeable USB drives cost next to nothing nowadays, I'd say that the problems aren't as prevalent. A big pro with cartridges is that the console itself would be cheaper to manufacture. Also, Nintendo could theoretically launch ever larger cartridges throughout the console's lifespan. And of course, a big pro would be that patches could be stored on the game cartridge itself, rather than the hard drive. As well as the save files. Hell, even eshop games could perhaps be stored on cartridges in some manner, making the console future proof in a way no disc based system will ever be. The con is of course that consumers might view it as ancient tech. Developers and publishers even moreso. Edited May 6, 2016 by Hogge
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