Aneres11 Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 : peace: As some of you may know, I recently decided to revisit the GameCube and play through some games I remember enjoying growing up with the console. I wanted to replay the classics, introduce myself to the games I never got to play, and familiarise myself with the games that I played, but hardly remembered. One such game I hardly remember, is Super Mario Sunshine! Having acquired a copy of eBay last week, I've spent a short time with the game, amassing a number of 'Shines' and getting to grips with F.L.U.D.D. all over again. And what a blast I'm having! Like all Mario games, this is just pure fun fun fun. Controlling the FLUDD pack as you run around as Mario never seems to get old. And DEM GameCube shoulder buttons for FLUDD water distribution. Delicious then, delectable now. The story of Mario Sunshine is very basic, as with all Mario games, but there seems to be a bit more in the way of cut scenes with this compared to other 3d Mario's. There aren't many animated scenes compared to other games, but the few that there are at the start set the scene quite nicely and it's something I'd like to see more of in future Mario games. One thing I have noticed early on, is that this game can be pretty difficult. One Shine in particular took me ages, as the aim was to get to a crate in the sky by maneuvering from water to metal framework, to shuffling up and around travelling metal poles, to climbing grates with electric spiders, all whilst fending off angry bloopers and wind blasts! It was hard! It took me a while to get that Shine and that was only my tenth of the game! I could get 10 stars in Mario 64 with my eyes shut! Mario himself also feels a bit tricky to control in this game. He's a little bit slippery, if that makes sense. Whilst his move set is all there, and with the added extra help brought by FLUDD's hover nozzle, he still doesn't feel as easy to move around as he does in Mario Galaxy or 64. But maybe it's just me. Speaking of Mario Galaxy, one of the very early Shines I gained was from a level in the first 'world' where Mario's doppelganger steals your FLUDD pack and you have to reach the end of a tricky stage without it. I believe there is one of these in each world. Anyway, check out the pic I took of it and tell me which Mario game you'd think this was taken from! Maybe Nintendo were experimenting with Galaxy style levels long before it made its debut! : peace: I find myself liking how different this game is from the other Mario games that came before, and have come after it. It really is the black sheep of the Mario catalogue and I can kind of see how it is a love / hate game. Though I haven't played loads of it, and as much as I am enjoying it, I do think it is possibly the weakest 3d Mario game of the bunch. Saying that, Galaxy 2 is not a favourite of mine so I'm hoping that with more play time on this, it will surpass my opinion of that particular game. So far so good anyway! I do have a few gripes, the biggest being the camera. To turn the camera left or right in this game, it is inverted. I've seen an up down invert before and I always have to switch it off, never a left / right one though! In Sunshine, it can't be changed. I'm forever moving the camera the wrong way and it is so annoying! I still haven't got my head around it! The other gripe I have (and this is a bit of a silly one) is the graphics. Naturally, this is over 10 years old so it's going to look ropey. But these worlds that I am exploring as Mario are pretty HUGE, and trying to make your way around them using jump wires, rooftops, moving poles and thin platforms can be tricky when the game isn't really meant for a flat screen 37 inch TV! Like I say, it's a silly negative but having been spoiled with the enhancements on visual capability in the years since this game, it makes this feel lacking somewhat. That's why I'd love it to be upscaled in a Wii U VC release. Yeah right! I'm still very early into the game, but I am thoroughly enjoying it. I thought I'd make a post now so I can continue posting as I play, which is something I intend to do with all the GC games I revisit. I reckon there will be enough people who have played them or had/have an opinion on them to get a nice discussion going, plus it will be good to have some retro appreciation for dem great games! Given how much fun I'm having with this, the inevitable thoughts are now creeping in. I won't say it, I'll just leave this here and hope it happens...! : peace:
Hero-of-Time Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Great write up. I see you are suffering from the same camera issues I had when I tried playing it a few years back. It's baffling that there is no option to switch it and it's a big reason why I didn't carry on playing it. Crazy to think that I managed to 100% this using that control method back in the day. I don't think I could do it now.
Jonnas Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Mario Sunshine is an excellent game. We had a thread a while back where everyone posted their thoughts on it, and it really does seem like this game has been vindicated by history.
Aneres11 Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 Great write up. I see you are suffering from the same camera issues I had when I tried playing it a few years back. It's baffling that there is no option to switch it and it's a big reason why I didn't carry on playing it. Crazy to think that I managed to 100% this using that control method back in the day. I don't think I could do it now. I did wonder what you meant when you mentioned the camera issues. Now I understand. I will persevere though! Hopefully I can get to grips! And then when I play another adventure / platform game and it isn't inverted I'll be tearing my hair out with that! Mario Sunshine is an excellent game. We had a thread a while back where everyone posted their thoughts on it, and it really does seem like this game has been vindicated by history. I tried to find a thread but couldn't see one! I figured a new one wouldn't go a miss anyway! Be great to get more thoughts on it again! It really is a very unique game! : peace:
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I very much enjoyed this game at its time of release. I haven't gone back to it since, but I appreciated its change of style and location. Nintendo were really on the ball with SM64, Sunshine and the Galaxy games. Three completely different games with their own unique set of environments and mechanics. They have completely gone backwards with the likes of "New Super Mario Bros." and "3D Land/World" imo. The games just don't have the style, the substance or the charm that these other ones had. Sunshine just didn't give it a shit really. It went in there with its setting and location and you had to either like it or lump it. I loved it. It was vibrant, fun and graphically looked very, very good at the time. Dem water effects, hnnnnnnnnnng. Would love it if Nintendo ditched the idea of having games in a "series" like they are with New and 3DLand/World and just went back to something like this. With the N64, we'll remember Mario 64. With the GC, we'll remember Sunshine. With the Wii, we'll have Galaxy. With the WiiU, we'll have 3DWorld...which looks very similar to 3DLand on the DS. It just doesn't have the same impact, imo.
Jonnas Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I tried to find a thread but couldn't see one! I figured a new one wouldn't go a miss anyway! Be great to get more thoughts on it again! It really is a very unique game! : peace: It was part of the Let's Talk Games initiative. Don't know why it stopped, it was a good series. Super Mario Sunshine's thread is here.
Rummy Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I was about to post, then went to that thread and read what I'd said there, I'm reassured to see it was pretty much the same I would have said again now! Still can't fault that tunage and vibrant environment though. The plaza tune 'dinkage' always jumps in my mind when I think of this game. Audio Sunshine just didn't give it a shit really. It went in there with its setting and location and you had to either like it or lump it. I loved it. It was vibrant, fun and graphically looked very, very good at the time. Dem water effects, hnnnnnnnnnng I do find myself agreeing with this actually. Whilst I kind of disliked it in some ways at first, it was still in the era when I got a game and had to like it or lump it, if I picked this up in the current age I don't know how much time I'd give it tbh, whereas back then I soldiered through for everything but the clue coins. I've yet to get all shines/sprites/whatevs on Galaxy 1, to play Galaxy 2, or finish SM3DW, which I only really played with friends so far.
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I do find myself agreeing with this actually. Whilst I kind of disliked it in some ways at first, it was still in the era when I got a game and had to like it or lump it, if I picked this up in the current age I don't know how much time I'd give it tbh, whereas back then I soldiered through for everything but the clue coins. I've yet to get all shines/sprites/whatevs on Galaxy 1, to play Galaxy 2, or finish SM3DW, which I only really played with friends so far. I did like that Nintendo attitude, tbh. It was more bull-ish and you get the impression that they wanted to create games their way. Like Luigi's Mansion, I remember how there was a huge scepticism about Luigi being there on day 1 and not Mario, yet Nintendo somehow made it work. Wind Waker, the outrage over the graphics at the time. If they thought it was a great idea for a game or a good direction, they went with it. These days, they're almost a bit too apologetic and are so focused on "trying to appeal or please everyone" that they don't really attract anyone. I'd love for them to go back to the drawing board and use something like Sunshine as a template. What would make a great Mario game for fans who have already played the older games and build it from there. The problem with New and World/Land is that they are so built intrinsically on nostalgia that they don't "feel" all that new. At least Sunshine stood up as its own game and did things by itself without having to rely on past games to see it through.
Rummy Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Would the attitude still work though? For instance would you see yourself buying Sunshine today? It's of course a very hard question to answer given retrospecs and difference in time - but I know I skipped MKWii, NSMBWii, SMG2 and NSMBU - even though all good games from what I hear and the little I've played but they didn't do enough more to get me hooked in on a purchase. Were I a kid or the teenager I was all them 12 years ago, and chose to buy NSMB - I'd end up sticking with it because I was on limited funds/games etc. Iirc correctly Sunshine was both mine and my brother's, but he was starting to grow out of video games then too.
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Would the attitude still work though? For instance would you see yourself buying Sunshine today? It's of course a very hard question to answer given retrospecs and difference in time - but I know I skipped MKWii, NSMBWii, SMG2 and NSMBU - even though all good games from what I hear and the little I've played but they didn't do enough more to get me hooked in on a purchase. Were I a kid or the teenager I was all them 12 years ago, and chose to buy NSMB - I'd end up sticking with it because I was on limited funds/games etc. Iirc correctly Sunshine was both mine and my brother's, but he was starting to grow out of video games then too. If they hadn't released NSMBWiiU and 3DWorld and/or I hadn't played 3DWorld, then yeah, I would have been really happy if they had shown something like Sunshine. Isn't that what most gamers were expecting? They weren't expecting and neither did they want 3DWorld or New Super, at least that what the reactions seemed to be when both were shown. I haven't finished 3DWorld. As nice as it is, it doesn't grab my attention in the same way that other Mario games have. I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to make another platformer this generation for the WiiU, something like a Galaxy 3. I'm not sure how well that would wash with a lot of gamers who are anticipating something "new". We'll have had three sequels then in Galaxy, 3DWorld and New Super! That's if it happens of course. One thing that Sunshine really did well for me was the overworld. I really enjoyed just going around marvelling at Delfino Plaza's beauty.
Rummy Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 But by the same logic/reasoning - people didn't like/want Sunshine to start with either? Well actually that's probably wrong, for me it looked good and I was excited, later felt a little less good(though still good) when actually playing. I think it is just age nostalgia and retrospecs sometimes, I have to wonder if kids these days just love what they're getting like we did then. (Having said that I met a sort of adopted nephew for the first time last week. He's in year 6 and he loves spiderman and video games like I did as a kid(and still as an adult) - the most remarkable thing was that he plays mega drive sonics and loves them, he'd just bought the sega mega collection on 360! I felt really chuffed about that.)
Happenstance Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I have never really been all that into the 3D Mario games but this is the one I remember the most fondly. I still remember playing it Christmas day when I got my second Gamecube (after having sold the first one, typical of me at that age...and now). I dont think I ever completed it though. If it ever comes out on the Wii U VC I would consider buying it again.
Aneres11 Posted August 8, 2014 Author Posted August 8, 2014 So I have been making some progress with this game over the last couple of evenings... And I have to say, for as much fun as it is working out how to get certain Shines and exploring huge sun drenched theme parks and water worlds... The controls and camera of this game are really letting it down. It's such a tricky game at the best of times, but when a simple shine of "collect 8 red coins" is presented to you, and 45 minutes later I only have 3... You know it's causing you problems! Now it could just be that I suck at the game but I can assure you that I don't, honest! But I'm having to once again, manoeuvre Mario over tricky platform sections and unfortunately the game is showing its age what with it's poor camera. So many times I go to make a tricky jump and I lose Mario behind some form of pillar that the camera decides to swing into. It doesn't help that I'm trying to jump between (and stay on) 2 massive swinging boats in a theme park world above a pool of water. Fall off and it's right back round you go! It's such a shame as well as it is stopping me from wanting to play the game and give up in frustration. But I really want to see it through! When the game is good, it's fantastic. I also love watching the story unfold. Bowser Jr calling Princess Peach mommy...! What on earth did Peach get up to?! :awesome: I'm going to give it a rest tonight now and see how I feel tomorrow. I have other stuff to play so will try something a bit simpler now for some light relief !
Dog-amoto Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I remember spending about 30 minutes downloading this on a dial up connection
Hero-of-Time Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 It's a shame the camera and controls are running your experience but it's something I can relate to. I think it's the only older Mario game that I've only finished the once. I could never go through it again due to the issues you mentioned. I would love to but that backwards camera control kills it for me.
pratty Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I'm tempted to stick this on myself soon and see how' it's holding up. I remember the camera feeling odd coming from other games but I seem to remember getting used to it and it not really being a hinderance. As for the rest of the controlls I don't really recall having an issue.
Rummy Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Refresf my memory for me @Aneres11, do red coin collections exist outside of the sort of subsection mini challenges?
Aneres11 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Posted August 11, 2014 Refresf my memory for me @Aneres11, do red coin collections exist outside of the sort of subsection mini challenges? No, not as far as I'm aware. They only appear in the sections where you enter a world and select the specific red coin Shine from that world.
Rummy Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 No, not as far as I'm aware. They only appear in the sections where you enter a world and select the specific red coin Shine from that world. hmm, that doesnt quite clraify as i expected(super bad memory). I think i reall the red coin shines, yet im thinking of something else instead. maybe ill solve the problem by digging out the game for myself !
Aneres11 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Posted August 12, 2014 hmm, that doesnt quite clraify as i expected(super bad memory). I think i reall the red coin shines, yet im thinking of something else instead. maybe ill solve the problem by digging out the game for myself ! Well I'm not that far in yet so there could be more in the way of red coin sections that I have no idea about! I wll persevere with it and let you know! : peace:
Jonnas Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 There are Red Coin missions, but you can't get them outside of their respective missions. And yes, they exist outside of the mini-levels (the haunted hotel had one of these missions, so did the Gelato Beach reef)
hebilea Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 It's nice to see a lot of people that appreciate Super Mario Sunshine still! I have just replayed this game last week and I just couldn't stop playing it until I was finished. I finished the game in less than 2 days XD The problems I have had wasn't actually the camera as much...my biggest problem was that Mario was hard to maneuver in a lot of cases. Maybe I have gotten used to 3D World too much, but really, this wasn't as easy to finish, even though I finished it within 2 days. That being said, I have been hoping for SMS2 for a long time. When Super Smash Bros Brawl came out and Mario using FLUDD with his Down + B, I thought this would be a spoiler that a second game will be coming...sadly it didn't come. Now we have had Sunshine Airport in MK8, Mario uses FLUDD in the new Smash Bros again, and with the inclusion of Bowser Jr in the roster, his Final Smash is Shadow Mario. I can see that Nintendo is using these from the get go and I still have hopes that there will be a number 2 sometime.
Hero-of-Time Posted October 4, 2017 Posted October 4, 2017 This popped up on Gaf the other day. I just sat and watched it and found it to be a fantastic and interesting video. If you have an hour spare, and are interested in the Mario Sunshine speed running community, I highly recommend you give it a watch. 2 2
Dcubed Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 8:02 PM, Hero-of-Time said: This popped up on Gaf the other day. I just sat and watched it and found it to be a fantastic and interesting video. If you have an hour spare, and are interested in the Mario Sunshine speed running community, I highly recommend you give it a watch. Finally got round to watching this the other day! Brilliant watch! Fascinating stuff. Am now an addict of Summoning Salt’s channel thanks to his recommendation
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