How should the Zelda series evolve in future games?

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'm playing a lot of Watch Dogs at the moment and am getting to grips with this idea of open world gameplay. I know that the next Zelda has been said to feature elements of this, so I thought it would be an interesting discussion point for the future editions.

 

What exactly does it mean by open world?

 

To me, when I think of open world, I think of two things; Freedom of exploration and the ability to approach problems in numerous ways.

 

First off, let's look at the first part: Freedom of Exploration. I'd love to see a Zelda game that takes elements of a game that I very much enjoyed on the WiiU...Arkham City. Now, what I mean by this is that you have your "main story" or "quest" that you embark on. Aside from that, you also have numerous additional (and optional) sidequests that feature different enemies and storylines. They are almost worthy of being part of the main quest themselves. For example, the Hush or Deadshot missions feature you taking part in investigations, keeping the mechanics varied to the main overarching storyline.

 

How can they use this in Zelda? Well, what if you had different and optional regions of the game that you didn't have to go to to complete the main storyline, but featured its own unique element and sidequests, etc. For example, the main story line could see you (for example) aiming to defeat Ganondorf. What if there were additional quests in different areas that saw you trying to stop Zant from usurping the throne? What if Twin Rova were cooking up spells that caused certain townsfolk to be sick? Defeating them, thus curing the town could open up additional quests or even give you rewards.

 

Another thing that Arkham City did well is that there were tons of collectibles that you didn't need to collect, but you could do if you wanted to. I feel that there are elements there that could be incorporated within Zelda to make it an even more enjoyable game.

 

Right, that's the first element over with, now onto the second: The ability to approach problems in different ways. Watch Dogs does this really, really well. For example, when infiltrating a gang hideout, there are so many different entry points. If there are 10 guys that are in the hideout, there are usually just as many different ways to get in. One hideout in a car parking garage featured the following different ways:

 

1. Walking through the garage and up the ramp to the second level. You could then distract the first guard or shoot them, or take them out quietly from behind.

2. Using a piece of machinery on the outside of the building to make it up to the second floor undetected.

3. Using the stairs at the back of the garage to make it to the second level, take out the guards there either by using stealth, run and gun, hacking the environment to explode certain things.

4. Use the stairs to by pass the second floor to get to the third and work your way down.

5. Go to the top level, use a vehicle to drive your way down and work your way from there.

 

These were just some of the ways of approach the mission. What I'd like to see with Zelda is more freedom with how to approach a problem. If you were handy with the bow, for example, what if the game enabled you to use this as your main weapon throughout the entire game. I feel that as so much emphasis is on the master sword, the additional weapons are sidelined. To its credit, Skyward Sword gave us a possible hint of what's to come with the upgrading aspect. What if you could upgrade the bow in such a way (Tomb Raider style) so that you never had to use the sword if you didn't want to? That's what I'd like to see, giving players the freedom to play the game how they want to do it; use stealth if you want to. What if there was a way to go through an entire Zelda game by using the bow to cut ropes that would allow barrels from above to fall on enemies/use the environment to hurt creatures...without you ever actually having to hurt them directly.

[nekunando]

A considerable part of me hates the term 'sidequest'

 

I obviously understand the connotations and, for the most part, 'sidequests' are little missions you can take care of that don't affect the 'main' part of the game or story. I've never really been particularly concerned about the stories in most games (given my Nintendo background, it's probably better that way ) but it does bug me when the 'sidequests' don't really make sense in the whole scheme of things. For instance, if the world is in danger and I'm the only one who can save it, I'd probably better be cracking on with that instead of taking the time out to go catch some bugs or give masks to a few strangers. I mean, sometimes you have to prioritise

 

I'm definitely not against the idea of extra content in The Legend of Zelda, or games in general for that matter, but I'd like to feel as though it fits into the game properly. Getting Star Coins in New Super Mario Bros is essentially a 'sidequest', and I'm all for it as Nintendo usually manage to incorporate these extra challenges in a way that is compelling for advanced players whilst not being essential and therefore optional for beginners.

 

In The Legend of Zelda, it's great to have that awesome quest to focus on but it would be great for the 'sidequests' to feel important. For instance, you could be playing through the adventure with whatever weapons and items you've been given but if there's weapons or materials you feel will help you succeed in saving the princess, you have that option to go and hunt them down. In other words, it wouldn't be 'sidequests' just for the sake of it but rather something that you as the player would wish to actively pursue or neglect as part of the overall experience, perhaps even disguised in a way that doesn't make them seem like 'sidequests' at all.

 

As much as I like focused, and even linear games, my heart is telling me that I just want the next Zelda to be completely open and you're not even really aware of what's a sidequest and what isn't. Sure, it could be frustrating doing things and feeling like you're getting somewhere only to realise it has no real bearing on the 'main' objective but then it's really up to the player to decipher what is going on and how they feel they need to take care of things. You might find a torn piece of material you suspect is that of the princess' clothing so you explore the surrounding area looking for more clues to her whereabouts, only to find that it leads to another character or item that you weren't necessarily actively looking for. It's more organic

 

I'm sure there are games already that do these sorts of things well, and perhaps I'm not explaining it that well, but these are the sorts of things I want. I didn't find the overall structure of A Link Between Worlds entirely to my liking, even if it was a decent game

Edited July 21, 2014 by nekunando

[Jonnas]

I'd rather see Zelda tackle "Open Worlds" the same way old-school games like Dragon Quest I and the original LoZ did: here's a world, here's a sword, knock yourself out.

 

Everything you end up seeing, every problem you end up solving, most of it goes back to the main quest, but you don't quite see it at first. Every area you reach seems to have a different story going on, maybe you'll get a trinket or two after solving that problem that'll help elsewhere.

 

How about that detour in that tunnel leads to a tough Dragon guarding a room, probably some optional treasure. But no, it was the princess that had been kidnapped at the very beginning of the game, being kept in some random cave. Saving her is optional, as killing the villain is what ends the game.

 

Old school NES games could do this with a good degree with simplicity, and simplicity is really all we need to have an engaging open world.

[Cube]

One problem is that a lot of these "open world" games seem to be agreeing to the same formula and lose their uniqueness. For example, Arkham City felt like just another open world game, and wasn't as good as Arkham Asylum as a result, which was more of a Metroidvania game.

 

Zelda already has a much better example of side-quests than Arkham City, too: Majora's Mask. More personal stories rather than big, important parts - those should always be part of the main quest, but in the style more like A Link Between Worlds where you can tackle some stuff in the order that you choose. Zelda also has heart pieces, which often require more effort than most collectibles in open world game, and are therefore much more entertaining to collect.

 

A big open connected world is what I want from the next Zelda, with no transitions between areas (apart from indoor areas) because it's all one "map". Even better if things change as you progress through the game. With more options to choose the order to do things than ALttP and lots of side-quests like Majora's Mask. Also, back to four heart containers before you get more health, and perhaps another collection quest similar to the Gold Skulltulas.

[Rummy]

I was thinking of MM myself Cube, at Flink's talk of the open world exploration - how open world do you feel that was @Fierce_LiNk? I think it's one of the best Zelda games for its approach, with so much being optional and the 'time' mechanic giving different options and possibilities. I'd quite like to see a lot of that again really. Imagine it's much easier to do than the freedom of options on solutions to puzzles, too.

[Agent Gibbs]

Cross between Skyrim landscape/scale with sidequests done in a Majora's mask style

a stealth mechanic could be good in the game allowing you to snipe with a bow....but something tells me transformer bow won't be quiet

[Fierce_LiNk]

I was thinking of MM myself Cube, at Flink's talk of the open world exploration - how open world do you feel that was @Fierce_LiNk? I think it's one of the best Zelda games for its approach, with so much being optional and the 'time' mechanic giving different options and possibilities. I'd quite like to see a lot of that again really. Imagine it's much easier to do than the freedom of options on solutions to puzzles, too.

 

Majora's Mask was great for its approach, but I don't think Nintendo have it in them to create another game like that, especially given how dark it was at times in terms of mood and atmosphere. The time mechanic was quite divisive at the time. I loved it and would welcome it with open arms. The notion of a world being one "big" area that's connected is a must. I'll be surprised if we don't see that in the next Zelda.

 

When Nintendo talk about open world, I get the feeling that they mean being able to tackle dungeons in a different order, which is fine. What I'd like to see is different ways to tackle a dungeon. For example, what if there were multiple ways to solve a particular puzzle rather than a simple move a block from point a to point b mechanic.

[Jonnas]

Majora's Mask was great for its approach, but I don't think Nintendo have it in them to create another game like that, especially given how dark it was at times in terms of mood and atmosphere. The time mechanic was quite divisive at the time.

 

Majora's Mask was a "subtle" kind of dark. Nintendo definitely still has what it takes to do that, the only question is how willing are they. For Zelda, I think they would, though certainly not with these bright colours we've been shown.

 

Also, "divisive" is hardly among the list of things Nintendo can't be. If they could come up with the time mechanic now, they would do it, and they wouldn't care what others thought of it.

 

What I'd like to see is different ways to tackle a dungeon. For example, what if there were multiple ways to solve a particular puzzle rather than a simple move a block from point a to point b mechanic.

 

See, puzzles like that tend to be simple and fairly uninteresting if they're being presented as "puzzles".

 

In action or stealth games, you have clear goals, and several options on how to overcome obstacles (guards, doors, etc.), so that kind of approach makes sense.

In exploration games, the dungeons and puzzles are part of the experience, the journey. You can't beeline to your goal, to the end of the dungeon, that's not the point. You find a puzzle, you will want to approach it, think, and solve it. By offering more than one solution, you're effectively denying all other solutions to the player, as they suddenly become something the player can't really "explore".

 

I would rather see more puzzles where you don't even realise there is a puzzle at first. Explore until you see the bigger picture and then work towards the herculean task of solving it. Eagle Tower, Water Temple, and most MM dungeons are all good examples.

[dwarf]

It could do with a more fluid combat system. Nintendo have an obsession with lock-on targeting systems which oversimplify the combat to the point that you don't really feel any gratification for conquering an enemy. I'd love it if they went full on Dark Souls where combat is all about timing, dodging, and weapon/magic choice. Zelda is a bit like that but there is only ever one way to fight something and as soon as you're locked on, you're essentially trapped in a virtual box and the environment doesn't really come into play. With Dark Souls you have to engage pretty much every faculty in your approach, and do it with speed. Plus, the feedback you get from connecting with a halberd or some such is weighty as fuck and precipitates many a fist-pump.

 

There are some open world things that I cba to expound on right naww.

[The Bard]

Like above, the fighting has traditionally been a bit simplistic (although they shook things up in Wind Waker where I think it felt best). Really I'd like Zelda to have more metroid about it. More mystery, ambiance and atmosphere.

 

It already tends to item gate, but to the point where whole dungeons won't be available to you without a particular item or spell. I'd rather be able to get a taste of everything from the off so that every item acquisition sets of that magical chime in the back of my head (as well as in the game) that makes me remember that I can go to a fuckton of new places.

[dwarf]

They could also overhaul the universe. The whole timeline thing is kind of preposterous considering how virtually every individual narrative riffs on a different entry in the series with interchangeable plot elements, all of which ultimately devolve into a shattered grail fetch-quest. Character reinvention is much needed also.

 

Strip it all back and do something utterly surprising. It would be great to see Nintendo do that again.