Serebii Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Great article over at IGN about the lack of voice chat in Splatoon and Nintendo games in general. HERE It seems Fran is at breaking point with these decisions and I find it interesting that these types of decisions are pushing him away from Nintendo, not unlike a lot of our members on here. The word "lazy" really gets thrown about too much regarding games these days. Would it be nice to have it (Friends only, though...nuts to public), sure...no question. Is it them being "lazy"? Hell no. It's certainly not them being "cheap", either.
Hero-of-Time Posted May 10, 2015 Author Posted May 10, 2015 The word "lazy" really gets thrown about too much regarding games these days. Would it be nice to have it (Friends only, though...nuts to public), sure...no question. Is it them being "lazy"? Hell no. It's certainly not them being "cheap", either. I agree the terms he uses are wrong but everything else is spot on.
Serebii Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I agree the terms he uses are wrong but everything else is spot on. "Potentially misguided" is probably the better term
Hero-of-Time Posted May 10, 2015 Author Posted May 10, 2015 "Potentially misguided" is probably the better term I would get rid of the potentially and just leave it as misguided.
dazzybee Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Great article over at IGN about the lack of voice chat in Splatoon and Nintendo games in general. HERE It seems Fran is at breaking point with these decisions and I find it interesting that these types of decisions are pushing him away from Nintendo, not unlike a lot of our members on here. Finally the gaming media start to push back at Nintendo on these matters, I've been calling out for it for years. It's still mind boggling this game doesn't have voice chat, it IS important, it will ruin the experience slightly. There's a simple fix nintendo, either give gamers what they want, or keep falling behind and refuse to catch up.
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Interestingly, and I'm not offering this as my opinion but as what I've seen, on the Twitter feed of this article I'd say a good 90% of the replies are disagreeing, and saying it doesn't need voice chat! I think the main thing is choice, for people who want to have it. I enjoyed playing COD for years with none as, frankly, I knew what I was doing and didn't need it. Same with MH online, either with friends or randoms, a quick "cap/kill" message before the hunt, then a whole part of it is keeping an eye on fellow hunters for health, laying traps etc, I find it v rewarding like that. However not having the choice is criminal and loses as many gamers as it attracts!
Wii Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Nintendo and voice chat? They'll figure it out eventually. They're just a little behind the times.
dazzybee Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Peronslaly I have no interest in chatting to randoms, but I want to chat with friends. Some people want to chat to everyone. Some people want to chat to no one. It's easy to let us all have what we want! Either way Splatoon looks incredible and I can't wait, I'll find other solutions, but Nintendo would be wise to put it in. We'll see! Do they listen is the big question!
Ashley Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 What's most annoying is that interview with the director in EDGE. To paraphrase: " when I played online I got shouted at and didn't like it thus I'm not including it ". There might have been many other reasons it wasn't included but dear God that is an awful one.
Hero-of-Time Posted November 9, 2015 Author Posted November 9, 2015 Interesting discussion about Nintendos online setup now and going forward, on this weeks Nintendo Voice Chat. They were discussing just how limited the whole thing is now and how isolated the actual friends list on the Wii U/3DS really is. Jose was saying that they HAVE TO nail the online communication setup up on the NX or they could be in a lot of trouble with fans/people. He also pointed out, and I remember people saying this on here and elsewhere, that before the Wii U was released a lot of people were saying how the console would fix everything that was wrong with the Wii and bring it up to the standards of the other consoles in terms of online capabilities. Fast forward a few years and it simply isn't the case. People are now saying the same thing about the Wii U to NX transition, and even though it holds more weight this time ( due to the DeNA partnership ) i'm still not hopeful. Things like the recent Triforce Heroes shows that the company still doesn't get it or maybe just don't care. Either way, the NX better deliver when it comes to communicating and hooking up with friends. Strange that this topic of conversation came up in this weeks episode as I was just talking to lostmario about on Saturday. I joined lostmario in party chat on the PS4 on Saturday night. He was playing something while I just jumped in for the banter. He wanted to play FIFA with a few people who were online, so messages and party invites were sent out. In less than 5 minutes he had my nephew, Rowan and Emerald all in the party and all playing FIFA. Now, at the exact same time we had @dazzybee on here trying to scramble people on the forum to play Splatoon. Looking at the topic I couldn't help but laugh at what was going on between two different groups on two different consoles. The difference was night and day. Crazy.
Serebii Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Now, at the exact same time we had @dazzybee on here trying to scramble people on the forum to play Splatoon. Looking at the topic I couldn't help but laugh at what was going on between two different groups on two different consoles. The difference was night and day. Crazy. To be fair, that would happen exactly the same even if it was up to the level of Xbox Live. Just because an online system is up to snuff doesn't mean everyone is always online and always seeing that others want to play.
Rummy Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Jose was saying that they HAVE TO nail the online communication setup up on the NX or they could be in a lot of trouble with fans/people. I should think/hope a lot of people here and elsewhere already know and realise this. It's definitely been the weakest aspect of the system for me - and it's put me off of bothering with the system now that I have an alternative. The ease of online really kills it for me - even if I'm not directly playing with someone just the fact I can have a banter. There's been a few times when I'm playing a game and a friend has just jumped in or partied up and we've gotten rocking that way. I joined lostmario in party chat on the PS4 on Saturday night. He was playing something while I just jumped in for the banter. He wanted to play FIFA with a few people who were online, so messages and party invites were sent out. In less than 5 minutes he had my nephew, Rowan and Emerald all in the party and all playing FIFA. Now, at the exact same time we had @dazzybee on here trying to scramble people on the forum to play Splatoon. Looking at the topic I couldn't help but laugh at what was going on between two different groups on two different consoles. The difference was night and day. Crazy. I didn't bring it up here but I thought rather the same - we initially organised a destiny raid via here for Saturday night but were two men down - bit of chat between me, gibbs and deathjam, bit of external comms from me to my mate, from Deathjam to his - and bam. We filled the gaps within 10-20minutes and was fine going forward and co-ordinating/communicating etc. Let's not forget the complexity here is organising amongst 6 of us, too. Some of whom aren't friends with each other etc. No issues for the next 2/3 hours til we stopped - including when someone's game dropped out completely. They were back up and back in the raid within 5 minutes or so, and we were all aware of what was going on because of the party chat. We finished it up with a simple sentence or two from Blade that set our time for continuing the Raid which was all agreed and we were all wrapped up and gone. Edited November 9, 2015 by Rummy
dazzybee Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I didn't bring it up here but I thought rather the same - we initially organised a destiny raid via here for Saturday night but were two men down - bit of chat between me, gibbs and deathjam, bit of external comms from me to my mate, from Deathjam to his - and bam. We filled the gaps within 10-20minutes and was fine going forward and co-ordinating/communicating etc. Let's not forget the complexity here is organising amongst 6 of us, too. Some of whom aren't friends with each other etc. No issues for the next 2/3 hours til we stopped - including when someone's game dropped out completely. They were back up and back in the raid within 5 minutes or so, and we were all aware of what was going on because of the party chat. We finished it up with a simple sentence or two from Blade that set our time for continuing the Raid which was all agreed and we were all wrapped up and gone. Is that a good example? You need "external comms" for yours and death jams mate; if we had real life friends who had splatoon I'm sure it''ve been easier too to get our one extra person (we were looking for 6 too). As for dropping out, Guy dropped out, then came back and played with us.... Not an issue. I mean, I'm not saying it's good, its obviously atrocious and needs sorting, but this example doesn't show whats bad at all. All of your situation could be said on the wii U too - organised a game, external communication to get friends playing, people dropping out and coming straight back.
Hero-of-Time Posted November 9, 2015 Author Posted November 9, 2015 Is that a good example? You need "external comms" for yours and death jams mate; if we had real life friends who had splatoon I'm sure it''ve been easier too to get our one extra person (we were looking for 6 too). As for dropping out, Guy dropped out, then came back and played with us.... Not an issue. I mean, I'm not saying it's good, its obviously atrocious and needs sorting, but this example doesn't show whats bad at all. All of your situation could be said on the wii U too - organised a game, external communication to get friends playing, people dropping out and coming straight back. The thing I was getting at that was you needed an extra man. Now lets say that many of your friends were on the Wii U playing a different game at the time and you wanted to invite them to Splatoon. You can't. There's no way to send out a global message and for them to see it. No party chat to ask them if they would like a game and if I remember correctly, the guide button is disabled to access your friends list anyway when playing online. Lostmario fancied a game of FIFA, seen a bunch of people playing various stuff on the PS4, sent a message and within minutes they were all playing FIFA. No trying to sort out times, no posting to forums to set up a game ( although Rowan did post in the FIFA thread but he may have been trolling after I was having a laugh at the situation ), nothing like that. It was all in system. The problem with the Wii U and 3DS setup is that you need something external to even try and get something off the ground and that shouldn't be the case. I should think/hope a lot of people here and elsewhere already know and realise this. It's definitely been the weakest aspect of the system for me - and it's put me off of bothering with the system now that I have an alternative. The ease of online really kills it for me - even if I'm not directly playing with someone just the fact I can have a banter. There's been a few times when I'm playing a game and a friend has just jumped in or partied up and we've gotten rocking that way. Exactly. Just like the other week when you randomly jumped into our party. You seen it was open and we were having the banter and a click of a button and you were enjoying listening to my nephew and lostmario wind each other up.
Kav Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 If there's no Party Chat at an OS Level on the NX I'll just not bother picking it up... at least not on launch, I'd probably buy it second-hand on the cheap and only when enough big games are out for it. It definitely won't be a multiplayer machine for me... Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Splatoon, I'd not bother with any of them.
Rummy Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Is that a good example? You need "external comms" for yours and death jams mate; if we had real life friends who had splatoon I'm sure it''ve been easier too to get our one extra person (we were looking for 6 too). As for dropping out, Guy dropped out, then came back and played with us.... Not an issue. I mean, I'm not saying it's good, its obviously atrocious and needs sorting, but this example doesn't show whats bad at all. All of your situation could be said on the wii U too - organised a game, external communication to get friends playing, people dropping out and coming straight back. I should have clarified - the external comms from what I'm aware was just me(DJ got his mate over PS4, iirc) and the extent of it was little more than a text message to essentially tell him to get on PS4 for it - texts are still easier than skype, and are my general method of communication with my mates so I don't think it's fair to judge that. If I post here to you guys - 'wanna play some Splatoon' it hasn't generally been easy to then continue from there on the Wii U side of things once we're on. There were other people on PS4 at the time too - Gibbs was able to easily message asking if they'd help fill the gaps and we could see what they were doing etc. and get a quick and easy response. If all 4 of us have this ability to check with our friends then it's exponentially increasing our chances of solving our problem. You've additionally overlooked the communication between Gibbs, myself and DJ - all faciliated/done through PS4 once I'd seen the issue via the forum 10 minutes before we were due to start - Gibbs mesaged me on PS4 anyway so that's irrelevant. Other than one post in the thread, our comms went on to PS4 - which is faster and more real time than a thread as no need for refreshing etc(as I've had to do with Splatoon in the past). Someone drops in Splatoon and you immediately know what's going on and if they'll be coming back in 5 minutes(or less, even)? Did you know he was coming back via the system's online features? I don't think so. How fast was he back playing with you, too? Less than 5 minutes? Put on top of it - the Raid is a co-ordinated activity - for 2/3 hours we had constant communication that helped us know what was happening and with the guy who dropped(as it was just a game glitch, and OS level voice chat overcomes that). Me and my mate got taught the ropes of the raid as we went along - if this was the Nintendo system then it's highly unlikely that would even have been possible. The cherry to end was that within less than a few minutes - we'd easily organised when to continue/play next. Again, would you be able to do that here with Splatoon? And ultimately I'll ask you - if it's so ok, why did you ever feel the need to Skype when Splatooning in the past? If there's no Party Chat at an OS Level on the NX I'll just not bother picking it up... at least not on launch, I'd probably buy it second-hand on the cheap and only when enough big games are out for it. It definitely won't be a multiplayer machine for me... Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Splatoon, I'd not bother with any of them. I wasn't planning on grabbing an NX until I see how it does, but I think this would definitely be a criteria for me to consider it, having seen the ease of socialising/gaming via OS level on alternatives. Edited November 9, 2015 by Rummy
Hero-of-Time Posted November 9, 2015 Author Posted November 9, 2015 If there's no Party Chat at an OS Level on the NX I'll just not bother picking it up... at least not on launch, I'd probably buy it second-hand on the cheap and only when enough big games are out for it. It definitely won't be a multiplayer machine for me... Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Splatoon, I'd not bother with any of them. The kicker is I would arguably play on my Wii U a lot more if I could hook up and talk with my friends online. The games you listed are prime for some good banter while playing, but sadly Nintendo don't see it like that. Do people think this will change with the NX? I obviously want it to but I just can't see it. I think it was Brian (NVC again) who pointed out that the online system on the PS3 wasn't that great, You could send messages but the thing was slow and didn't have an OS level voice chat feature. He said the US side of Sony stepped in when making the PS4 and showed how things needed to run. I can't see Nintendo listening to anything the western side of the company says.
Rummy Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I'm re-treading old ground, but I've thought of another example from last week that was a good parallel for Splatoon. Dan Dare organised a Rocket League via here - time and day set. Come 7 it's just me and Dan on our PS4s, we decide to go ahead. Marcamillian pops up with a message on my PS4(another friend, who annoyingly isn't so good on the texts :p) saying he's joining, and Drahkon PS4 messages me asking if he can join too. So in minutes me and Dan have gone from thinking it's just me and him to knowing we've got at least 2 more joining. In Splatoon if you start a match - how do you know if someone else is joining if it isn't Turf Wars and you then see them(assuming you don't back out whilst they're queueing even)? How about mode to play? We can discuss it there and then, and know what to do(when to back out etc) and know what we're all doing. 2vs2 or 4 man team online? WE mixed it up with ease.RL isn't dissimilar to Splatoon in it has button text shortcuts - though it does have 16? as opposed to like...2. The other advantage is you can even free text message in game, too. When Dan dropped(went to get a drink), Drahkon could ask us where he was, I could reply telling him - in game so major distraction from it. Dan can add Marcamillian as a friend here for future RL, and I can suggest he adds Marcamillian to the party*. I can also explain to Marcamillian who Dan is. Drahkon doesn't join but replies with a message to say he hasn't got his mic and is listening to music so won't join the party. That's fair enough. He leaves after an hour or so before we're ready to finish and can let us know he's going to - Me Dan and Marc can decide again quick and easy via voice chat what mode to do now our dynamic has changed. It all works. We find ourselves 2/2.5hrs after starting all wrapping up having had a good game, good banter, and not once having to touch anything other than the PS4 in those hours - all due to the good online(even if Rocket League's is a bit funny). *The only strange thing I found was the 'suggesting' people to the leader to invite to join the party. I do understand/realise why it's done - for privacy/security reasons; but I didn't quite expect it to be like that. In some ways I felt it's a bit of a step backward; but that's because I don't generally mind randomers in a party, and I'd expect if you've got someone in your party already you'd trust whoever they then want to invite in to it too. The kicker is I would arguably play on my Wii U a lot more if I could hook up and talk with my friends online. The games you listed are prime for some good banter while playing, but sadly Nintendo don't see it like that. Do people think this will change with the NX? I obviously want it to but I just can't see it. I think it was Brian (NVC again) who pointed out that the online system on the PS3 wasn't that great, You could send messages but the thing was slow and didn't have an OS level voice chat feature. He said the US side of Sony stepped in when making the PS4 and showed how things needed to run. I can't see Nintendo listening to anything the western side of the company says. I just can't see it happening. There's no reason it hasn't happened already except for philosophy of the company as far as I'm concerned - I don't think they're going to change that enough. Some strides may be made towards it, but I feel they'll continue to restrict themselves unnecessarily - and with the online world constantly evolving I think it'll quickly become outdated if it isn't already when it arrives. Nobody wants a relic of a system compared to what they're used to everywhere else(not console wise per se, but just in this constantly online world). Edited November 9, 2015 by Rummy
dazzybee Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I should have clarified - the external comms from what I'm aware was just me(DJ got his mate over PS4, iirc) and the extent of it was little more than a text message to essentially tell him to get on PS4 for it - texts are still easier than skype, and are my general method of communication with my mates so I don't think it's fair to judge that. If I post here to you guys - 'wanna play some Splatoon' it hasn't generally been easy to then continue from there on the Wii U side of things once we're on. There were other people on PS4 at the time too - Gibbs was able to easily message asking if they'd help fill the gaps and we could see what they were doing etc. and get a quick and easy response. If all 4 of us have this ability to check with our friends then it's exponentially increasing our chances of solving our problem.You've additionally overlooked the communication between Gibbs, myself and DJ - all faciliated/done through PS4 once I'd seen the issue via the forum 10 minutes before we were due to start - Gibbs mesaged me on PS4 anyway so that's irrelevant. Other than one post in the thread, our comms went on to PS4 - which is faster and more real time than a thread as no need for refreshing etc(as I've had to do with Splatoon in the past). Someone drops in Splatoon and you immediately know what's going on and if they'll be coming back in 5 minutes(or less, even)? Did you know he was coming back via the system's online features? I don't think so. How fast was he back playing with you, too? Less than 5 minutes? Put on top of it - the Raid is a co-ordinated activity - for 2/3 hours we had constant communication that helped us know what was happening and with the guy who dropped(as it was just a game glitch, and OS level voice chat overcomes that). Me and my mate got taught the ropes of the raid as we went along - if this was the Nintendo system then it's highly unlikely that would even have been possible. The cherry to end was that within less than a few minutes - we'd easily organised when to continue/play next. Again, would you be able to do that here with Splatoon? And ultimately I'll ask you - if it's so ok, why did you ever feel the need to Skype when Splatooning in the past? I wasn't planning on grabbing an NX until I see how it does, but I think this would definitely be a criteria for me to consider it, having seen the ease of socialising/gaming via OS level on alternatives. Firstly, I get you, I guess your main things seemed to be we organised a game on here, then I texted them to get them to join, that doesn't sound like this super online system I guess that's what I meant. I know it is far better than that, but the way you explained it sounded like what we do on the wii u anyway. As for 'if it's okay' then, I never said it was okay. I've always slated nintendo online system, even wrote a couple of articles about how bad it is and what needs to change. I wish the Wii U was even remotely close to what the ps4 and I presume the xbox 1 has. As for your question about guy disappearing - the answer is that we had no idea why he went or even if he would come back He did though about 5 minutes later! @Hero\-of\-Time I know exactly what you were saying and agree with it 100%, it's pitiful and embarrassing how we have to work on all this!!! @Hero\-of\-Time I know exactly what you were saying and agree with it 100%, it's pitiful and embarrassing how we have to work on all this!!! To expand the discussion, for me it's still about the games - I'd still rather play Splatoon, Kart, smash etc with gimped online than say Destiny or Rocket league (though i do like Rocket League and could probably get into that). But then I'm not that bothered about voice chat. Second, I am so so confident Nintendo will sort it out for NX
Ashley Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I think it was Brian (NVC again) who pointed out that the online system on the PS3 wasn't that great, You could send messages but the thing was slow and didn't have an OS level voice chat feature. He said the US side of Sony stepped in when making the PS4 and showed how things needed to run. I can't see Nintendo listening to anything the western side of the company says. I did make a point a while ago not long after the PS4 launched and it started doing good numbers - it was a collaborative effort between Japan (Sony) and America (Cerney and others probably) and perhaps that is part of why it's doing well. We do seem to keep circling back to the same issue though - Nintendo can be quite insular.
Hero-of-Time Posted November 10, 2015 Author Posted November 10, 2015 I did make a point a while ago not long after the PS4 launched and it started doing good numbers - it was a collaborative effort between Japan (Sony) and America (Cerney and others probably) and perhaps that is part of why it's doing well. We do seem to keep circling back to the same issue though - Nintendo can be quite insular. Yeah, I do think that's a big part of it. I only brought it up again because Brian mentioned it and it hammers home the fact that Nintendo could do with getting input from other places. I wonder if they will allow you to stream via Twitch/Youtube/Ustream with the NX. Streaming is a massive part of gaming now and people do find it fun to watch, despite what Reggie says. It will be interesting to see if they incorporate this into their next console.
Ashley Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 They'll probably offer their own version whereby you have to know the person's phone number and you're not allowed to type any responses and there's a three hour delay in streams because a Nintendo moderator is censoring out any swear words like "whoopsie".
Rummy Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Firstly, I get you, I guess your main things seemed to be we organised a game on here, then I texted them to get them to join, that doesn't sound like this super online system I guess that's what I meant. I know it is far better than that, but the way you explained it sounded like what we do on the wii u anyway. As for 'if it's okay' then, I never said it was okay. I've always slated nintendo online system, even wrote a couple of articles about how bad it is and what needs to change. I wish the Wii U was even remotely close to what the ps4 and I presume the xbox 1 has. As for your question about guy disappearing - the answer is that we had no idea why he went or even if he would come back He did though about 5 minutes later! @Hero\-of\-Time I know exactly what you were saying and agree with it 100%, it's pitiful and embarrassing how we have to work on all this!!! @Hero\-of\-Time I know exactly what you were saying and agree with it 100%, it's pitiful and embarrassing how we have to work on all this!!! To expand the discussion, for me it's still about the games - I'd still rather play Splatoon, Kart, smash etc with gimped online than say Destiny or Rocket league (though i do like Rocket League and could probably get into that). But then I'm not that bothered about voice chat. Second, I am so so confident Nintendo will sort it out for NX I guess I could have elaborated more - though I was trying to avoid my subsequent tl;dr :p Interestingly I found out last night Dj's mate was actually just a PSN person - seamless that I didn't notice! I've bolded the last bit - because for me it isn't neccessarily just about the voice chat. Yes, I like voice chat, but my overarching point of the alternate that I've experienced is that it's a whole online system - VC yes but in actuality so much more. Even within VC itself - you can have general chat/banter, game relevant talk, strategic organisation, or just simply ease of communication on organisation with no notable chat. It's a whole, and one of our main, channel of communication - I think it should be standard at an OS level on everything at a minimum.
Glen-i Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 They'll probably offer their own version whereby you have to know the person's phone number and you're not allowed to type any responses and there's a three hour delay in streams because a Nintendo moderator is censoring out any swear words like "whoopsie". That vulgar language...
dazzybee Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I guess I could have elaborated more - though I was trying to avoid my subsequent tl;dr :p Interestingly I found out last night Dj's mate was actually just a PSN person - seamless that I didn't notice! I've bolded the last bit - because for me it isn't neccessarily just about the voice chat. Yes, I like voice chat, but my overarching point of the alternate that I've experienced is that it's a whole online system - VC yes but in actuality so much more. Even within VC itself - you can have general chat/banter, game relevant talk, strategic organisation, or just simply ease of communication on organisation with no notable chat. It's a whole, and one of our main, channel of communication - I think it should be standard at an OS level on everything at a minimum. Oh I know all its benefits, but I also hear s lot about just chatting with mates, not playing the same gsme just chatting etc etc. I'm just saying, however bad it is, and it is, however much I want them to improve, which I do, ultimately it's still about the gsme for me, and I think maybe because I'm not that bothered about VC could be the reason. A reason. Not to say I don't hate the system they have. Just maybe why it would never be a deciding factor for me.
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