Wii U General Discussion

[Sheikah]

You're all still focusing on the loss hit they take from reducing the console. If they get customers for their future games then they make the money back and then some. Especially since their game prices often retain value. As it stands, if people aren't buying the Wii U then there's little potential to make money. It's all about building up an install base - that's why Microsoft took drastic action since they saw how much better the PS4 was doing.

[liger05]

Be fair, Wii Party U is great. Sing Party, you're right, is god awful.

 

So what some are mini-game collections? Should we ignore Xbox One games because they're shooters, or racers? Or ignore Kinect games because they're sports related?

 

I wasn't saying these were system sellers. I was saying that they were titles built around the GamePad. Please don't put words in my mouth. You know how I hate that.

 

Also, TW101 used it for creating the unite morphs, as well as the camera changes. The camera changes are also a decently done part.

 

 

"The market" can determine what it wants, but if a price cut isn't feasible for Nintendo, it's not going to happen, regardless of what "the market" wants.

 

If two months after the 3ds launch someone said they need to cut the price by 40% you would of said the same thing. Losing money on the 3ds wasn't feasible but it was necessary.

 

You're all still focusing on the loss hit they take from reducing the console. If they get customers for their future games then they make the money back and then some. Especially since their game prices often retain value. As it stands, if people aren't buying the Wii U then there's little potential to make money. It's all about building up an install base - that's why Microsoft took drastic action since they saw how much better the PS4 was doing.

 

MS are probably still making money on each console sold.

[Pestneb]

 

 

It's not limited. My house has brick walls, not thin, and I can play the Wii U at any part of my house. But it all depends on the structure of your house, I guess. Sure, they could boost the antenna, but more distance means more lag.

 

 

Tempted to call bullshit on this one. Can't use the GamePad even one room over, with brick walls. Even then, even if it does work for one person, it doesn't for the next, so it's inconsistent. Meaning that dream of playing Zelda on the GamePad screen in bed whilst the console is in the living room isn't achievable.

 

Even the off-tv feature is almost redundant. In an age where so many people have a means to record television, it's almost pointless.

 

1) I believe him. It's just down to the building structure of your house. Could be the electrics, stud walls, plumbing, wifi etc etc.

But every building will be different. I find it plausible, from my experience with the Wii U, that an individual potentially could use the game pad anywhere in their home without lag.

But I will agree, really the console SHOULD be more consistent, it shouldn't be the lucky individual who can play anywhere in their home, it should be the unlucky one who can't.

 

2) I don't see how recording tv makes this feature redundant. When I record a programme, I prefer to watch it when I want to, not when I can. Off-TV means socially there isn't a need to choose between tv and console.

 

But even that's not the reason I like off tv play. I seem to be one of the luckier individuals, in as much as I have a large amount of flexibility, and the two rooms I will realistically want to play in I can.

 

Also, sometimes I need to move, I like not being tethered to a tv screen, being able to move and not have to sit in the same room. I can socialise with others to an extent, not just cut off and live a completely separate life while I game.

 

If it were strongly executed, it would allow me to seamlessly move from home console play to handheld play for the exact same game. And that is awesome. What is somewhat less awesome is that the idea has been weakly executed, meaning that the majority remain tethered to certain rooms.

 

I was round a friends house the other day... and he, it turns out has an ancient tv. I came round with my Wii U to play some mk... and discovered he had no component/hdmi ports. At which point the off screen play became a Godsend... was kinda interesting playing off the tiny screen, but it was a snes game so it worked!

 

so there's and added feature right there, no need to have a tv!

However, his house is worse than mine, moved into his kitchen briefly while he was getting snacks and I lost connection the the Wii U... so.. yeah. If the Wii U/gamepad had a stronger connection that would be awesome. As it is it's only nice.

[Sheikah]

MS are probably still making money on each console sold.

 

Almost certainly untrue. Sony made a £40 loss per PS4 selling by selling it at £350 (a cost they expected to recoup pretty quickly with one game and PS Plus 1 year subscription). For Microsoft to make a similar spec console including Kinect plus give away a new game for the same price, short of a magic hat I'm not sure how they could make it happen.

 

Unless you mean the customers went on to buy games, which is kind of the point I've been driving regarding what Nintendo should do, heh.

[Fierce_LiNk]

They are though. Again, things don't have to be mega amazing showcases of it. Off-TV Play is using it (Do note, Off-TV play was the original concept behind the GamePad so anything else is extra). Using it for various touch controls in games is using it.

 

Off-tv play certainly shouldn't be the main focus for the GamePad. I'm a little shocked to hear that. It's such a minuscule problem solver...

 

 

A dodgy EA port used it badly, so you're judging it on that?

 

You say dodgy EA port, I say the only football game on the system. A massive third party title to boot. I'm saying that FIFA highlighted a potential problem with the pad. It's very disorientating having to constantly look up and down, it's not really efficient having to take your hands off the controller to use the screen, especially if the gameplay is quick like it is in FIFA. The controls didn't work. This doesn't pave the way for future football titles. Although, the Wii U won't have that issue where FIFA is concerned. No Pro Evolution either.

 

 

And there will be.

 

I would ask you to prove it, but we can't as Nintendo don't show games off or market them months before release. A strategy I'm not fond of.

 

 

It's not bullshit, it's the truth. The only time I have issues is when I'm moving down the stairs, and that's where it loses connection.

 

Also, Off-TV play has been a godsend to many of my friends who only have one TV but live with their partner. Just because they can record TV doesn't mean it's pointless. With that logic, you can also play the game later.

 

Well, I can safely say that it doesn't work in my ground floor flat.

 

I live with my partner and we have a big tv in the living room. You're right, you can also "just play the game later" which is a way of solving the problem that many gamers have opted for. For quite some time now. Why would I play 3D World on a smaller screen now when I can just wait a bit and play it on a much better screen, in HD later on? Have you tried playing Arkham City on the screen? You lose so much, especially when flying around the City as Batman. Plus, all those maps and inventories that you like on the gamepad screen, you lose that. It's not really worth it.

 

 

It's a decent subtle touch. It's Nintendo expecting you to explore the uses of it rather than have it slapped in your face. That's how gaming used to be, now we're at the point where games show/tell you exactly what you have to do

 

I'm all for subtle and not hand-holding. Nintendo have shown that in much better ways in the past. Want an example? How about Super Fucking Metroid where the entire game is subtle and it doesn't hold your hand whatsoever. But in terms on 3D World, I'm looking at the TV screen, and there isn't really a need for me to look at the second screen. In ZombiU there is, I need to look there to check my map or see how much ammo I have, or to crack a puzzle. That's nice and subtle, not too in your face. There's no incentive for me to look at the gamepad screen for Mario because I'm already looking at an amazing screen where everything I possibly need is already there.

 

 

 

 

Yes, Metroid Prime has motion controls, subtle onces that aren't forced. That's my entire point.

 

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here or what point you're trying to make. From what I gather, the controls in Metroid are identical to the controls in pretty much every Wii shooter. I wouldn't say they are subtle and not forced because...how are you meant to look left, for example? You HAVE to use the pointer. The controls for shooters on the Wii are godly, though. Perfection.

 

 

 

Excuses? You asked if Nintendo showed developers the concept when in development. I said yes and then stated when things went awry. Nothing I said is "making excuses".

 

I meant Nintendo more than you.

 

Nintendo developed/funded games built around the GamePad (excluding off-tv play):

 

NintendoLand (cannot be played without it)

Game & Wario (cannot be played without it)

Sing Party (Urgh. Didn't want to mention it, but it would be wrong for me to ignore it.)

Wii Party U (cannot be played without it)

Lego City Undercover (cannot be played without it)

The Wonderful 101 (can be played without it...awkwardly)

Pokémon Rumble U (can be played without it. Built around the NFC feature in the GamePad)

Art Academy: SketchPad (cannot be played without it)

 

So it's not just NintendoLand. Please refrain from exaggeration

 

Is that list meant to be impressive? The only games I'd even consider touching are Lego City and Wonderful 101. The rest, with the exception of Nintendoland I guess, look ghastly. Fuck that. None of those are essentials.

 

And I'd be more gutted about missing out on mario kart, smash, mario, Zelda etc than call of duty, assassins creed, FIFA etc.

 

And you mentioned brawl, but that wasn't built around the Wii mote, and mario wasn't really, the point you're making is it had games. But that's different to gamepad - wiimote talked... Let's see what happens at e3

 

You missed the point with the first bit. You don't buy a system specifically for Call of Duty, Fifa or Assassins Creed, but they need to be there. We shouldn't be asking ourselves "hmm, do I want Zelda or Fifa?" BOTH should be on Nintendo's system.

 

Like I said in my post, if the games are great, the gamers will buy into it. Regardless of if they use the controls well or not. Nintendo had great controls and a great game with ExciteTruck, and even Brawl controlled well just the "regular" way. My point is that you can sometimes get away with risks if the software can back you up. Nintendo could have got away with the risk at the start of the Wii U's life if they had more in the pipeline. Showing off New Super Marios Bros U and NintendoLand wasn't fooling anybody.

[Pestneb]

You're all still focusing on the loss hit they take from reducing the console. If they get customers for their future games then they make the money back and then some. Especially since their game prices often retain value. As it stands, if people aren't buying the Wii U then there's little potential to make money. It's all about building up an install base - that's why Microsoft took drastic action since they saw how much better the PS4 was doing.

 

As far as a price drop is concerned, the WII U is already the cheapest current gen console. I don't see that dropping the price will help much, in fact it could further cement the weaker hardware idea. I think it would be better to improve value for money.

 

1)TVii. It's a small thing, but it's a feature they could really push.

2)Gamepad features. Actually make it work. Maybe a Gamepad plus that works in different rooms in the majority of households, rather than just the lucky few. boost the battery life too.

It would be a bit annoying for early adopters, but maybe they could release software that uses two gamepads, and offer a reduced price to early adopters buying a gamepad plus/offer a trade in?

3)Killer apps. Maybe get 3rd parties on board doing collaborative work. Cover all their bases along all genres. Use PR to actually create a bit of excitement about their games.

 

I actually think no price drop but actually getting TVii, gamepad and games sorted by the second half of the year would be far more effective. A price drop is easier and more likely to happen though, sadly.

[Sheikah]

As far as a price drop is concerned, the WII U is already the cheapest current gen console.

 

This only works if you adopt terminology that in this context lacks meaning, and truth. Many people do not view the Wii U as the next generation and their justifications aren't totally unfounded.

[Fierce_LiNk]

1) I believe him. It's just down to the building structure of your house. Could be the electrics, stud walls, plumbing, wifi etc etc.

But every building will be different. I find it plausible, from my experience with the Wii U, that an individual potentially could use the game pad anywhere in their home without lag.

But I will agree, really the console SHOULD be more consistent, it shouldn't be the lucky individual who can play anywhere in their home, it should be the unlucky one who can't.

 

I've been under the impression that if you can get the Wii U GamePad to work in another room, you lucked out. I don't know a single other person (bar Serebii) that has been able to use it in a separate room. It's clearly not made for that purpose.

 

 

2) I don't see how recording tv makes this feature redundant. When I record a programme, I prefer to watch it when I want to, not when I can. Off-TV means socially there isn't a need to choose between tv and console.

 

But even that's not the reason I like off tv play. I seem to be one of the luckier individuals, in as much as I have a large amount of flexibility, and the two rooms I will realistically want to play in I can.

 

Also, sometimes I need to move, I like not being tethered to a tv screen, being able to move and not have to sit in the same room. I can socialise with others to an extent, not just cut off and live a completely separate life while I game.

 

If it were strongly executed, it would allow me to seamlessly move from home console play to handheld play for the exact same game. And that is awesome. What is somewhat less awesome is that the idea has been weakly executed, meaning that the majority remain tethered to certain rooms.

 

Let's take an everyday problem: Two people who want to watch two different tv shows. Solution 1 means you get two televisions. Solution 2 means you record one, watch it later. Solution 3 means one of you misses out.

 

The Game/TV isn't isn't THAT much of a widespread issue that you need to spend potentially 250 to sort it out. If you already have the system, then it's a nice little feature. But, if you haven't got one, you won't rush out to get one because your Mum wants to watch Eastenders and you want to play a game. It's a solution to a problem that has a few other solutions already. What do other households do when there is a clash between people who game and people who watch tv? I've never really heard a PS3/360/One/PS4 owner complain about having to choose between tv and games.

 

Not being tethered to the tv screen is fine IF you are able to have complete freedom of movement and take the controller/screen into the other room and play. With the Wii U, you cannot do this, which means one of its main features isn't actually all that much of a feature.

 

 

I was round a friends house the other day... and he, it turns out has an ancient tv. I came round with my Wii U to play some mk... and discovered he had no component/hdmi ports. At which point the off screen play became a Godsend... was kinda interesting playing off the tiny screen, but it was a snes game so it worked!

 

so there's and added feature right there, no need to have a tv!

However, his house is worse than mine, moved into his kitchen briefly while he was getting snacks and I lost connection the the Wii U... so.. yeah. If the Wii U/gamepad had a stronger connection that would be awesome. As it is it's only nice.

 

I'm sure there's a Nintendo exec somewhere who is delighted that you used this feature. :p

So, you had the console, and the feature came in handy.

If you were going around your mate's house on Friday and neither one of you had a Wii U, would you go out to buy a Wii U because you could use that feature?

The answer for the majority of people is no. This is evident in the sales of the system which are generally very poor. The public don't want this feature. Gamers don't have THAT much of a need for it. Or a desire.

 

As far as a price drop is concerned, the WII U is already the cheapest current gen console.

 

You mean last generation, right? The 360 and PS3 are cheaper.

[Jamba]

Wow... just, I don't... nope.

 

Flink you're never going to convince someone that is irrational as Serebii who ignores the reality and opinion of everyone else that plays games to listen to the little voice in his own head that invents justification for Nintendo's actions.

 

I've been away for the best part of 2 months? The same record is still playing, the arguments are still the same and for this I only see one solution. Vote with your money people. The 3DS is a great system now which deserves a well earned purchase. The Wii U has a long way to go but many of us bought it on launch and are less than happy with it. We all need to learn to stop trusting Nintendo to deliver anything they promise and only drop our cash when the goods are delivered.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

This only works if you adopt terminology that in this context lacks meaning, and truth. Many people do not view the Wii U as the next generation and their justifications aren't totally unfounded.

 

Whaaat!? Come on ! Then obviously their just ignorant.

 

Please justify how the Wii U is not new gen?

[Kav]

It's new gen hardware, just not new gen technology within the hardware. It's still fair calling it new gen.

 

Just because I can beat up my nephews it doesn't mean that they're not the next generation in my family.

[Jamba]

Whaaat!? Come on ! Then obviously their just ignorant.

 

Please justify how the Wii U is not new gen?

 

Um, what?

Do we want to start exploring the fact that a £4-500 PC could run rings around a Wii U when it launched? Do you want to keep trying to justify that price tag nearer the end of the generation on top of all of the cheap games?

 

Nintendo have categorically stated that they are not going to compete in the graphics arms race and now they are showing that they aren't even going to compete in the gameplay arms race either.

 

Here's a question. What new does the Wii U bring to the table that makes it new? And I'm talking features that say "oh god, if you like games then you HAVE to try this" kind of features, not the pitiful justifications that Serebii is making.

 

The detachment from reality concerning value judgements for anyone but the most indoctrinated is getting worrying around here.

[Goron_3]

I might actually start a thread where we record ourselves playing on our Wii U's to see how far we can move it from the console before we get the 'connection is too weak' message. My Gamepad can work from the other side of the living room (just under 20ft) but more than that and it cuts out. Amazed to hear Serebii can get his to work over much bigger distances; that's impressive if true.

[Kav]

Mine doesn't work with a wall inbetween the console and itself, it must be 50cm away max. In the same room it reaches everywhere but if a wall so much as blocks the line of sight it gets interrupted.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Um, what?

Do we want to start exploring the fact that a £4-500 PC could run rings around a Wii U when it launched? Do you want to keep trying to justify that price tag nearer the end of the generation on top of all of the cheap games?

 

Nintendo have categorically stated that they are not going to compete in the graphics arms race and now they are showing that they aren't even going to compete in the gameplay arms race either.

 

Here's a question. What new does the Wii U bring to the table that makes it new? And I'm talking features that say "oh god, if you like games then you HAVE to try this" kind of features, not the pitiful justifications that Serebii is making.

 

The detachment from reality concerning value judgements for anyone but the most indoctrinated is getting worrying around here.

 

The vibe now is just getting unnecessarily aggressive - relax.

 

Sony and MS are not the generation or the bar to meet to make a Nintendo console worthwhile.

 

So what if Wii U is not in direct competition with Ps4/One - how does that take away from its enjoyability factor (when it gets more desirable games) and how does it make its technology 'last generation'?

 

Seriously, if you don't like it, you really don't have to go this hard and throw near insults at individuals - just ruins the whole environment.

 

To answer your question - the Wii U brings Nintendo games in HD and with greater potential at creating a better game. Thats all thats needed.

[Fierce_LiNk]

The vibe now is just getting unnecessarily aggressive - relax.

 

 

I'll echo this sentiment, let's keep the discussion civil, people. It's been going ok so far, I think. Let's keep it that way.

[Retro_Link]

Please justify how the Wii U is not new gen?

What about by the end of the year when games like Arkham Knight roll around that won't be able to run on Wii U without some form of significant down-grade?

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

What about by the end of the year when games like Arkham Knight roll around that won't be able to run on Wii U without some form of significant down-grade?

 

So why weren't people saying this when the N64, PSOne and Dreamcast were branched as being in the same generation?

 

Since when was generation just about power?

 

Its actually kind of sad the way power and graphics has just dominated the industry and peoples minds as to what makes a quality console.

 

Last week most of you were fapping to the Smash Direct ... now this... Then MK8 comes...Then this - its just rinse and repeat - the same old disatisfaction, to the point of calling a 2012 console the same gen as a console that came out 6 years prior.

 

Ten years from now, you'll probably lament on the Wii U as an amazing console (Just like people do with the Dreamcast and GC) all because you couldn't see what was there when it was around.

 

Damn shame.

Edited April 16, 2014 by King_V

[Pestneb]

I've been under the impression that if you can get the Wii U GamePad to work in another room, you lucked out. I don't know a single other person (bar Serebii) that has been able to use it in a separate room. It's clearly not made for that purpose.

 

You can make that two. I didn't realise the system was that poor!

Let's take an everyday problem: Two people who want to watch two different tv shows. Solution 1 means you get two televisions. Solution 2 means you record one, watch it later. Solution 3 means one of you misses out.

 

The Game/TV isn't isn't THAT much of a widespread issue that you need to spend potentially 250 to sort it out. If you already have the system, then it's a nice little feature. But, if you haven't got one, you won't rush out to get one because your Mum wants to watch Eastenders and you want to play a game. It's a solution to a problem that has a few other solutions already. What do other households do when there is a clash between people who game and people who watch tv? I've never really heard a PS3/360/One/PS4 owner complain about having to choose between tv and games.

no, because they have developed solutions with the tools they had available. It's an inconvenience they have learnt to accept. and it's not £250 for off TV play, from what I gather it's £50-70. Admittedly a steep price for a solution to a problem most people don't really see as a huge issue anymore!

 

Not being tethered to the tv screen is fine IF you are able to have complete freedom of movement and take the controller/screen into the other room and play. With the Wii U, you cannot do this, which means one of its main features isn't actually all that much of a feature.

Sure, I didn't realise the situation was as bad as that, from personal experience my Wii U gamepad experience is close to the "dream". If that's not realised by most people then Nintendo have really dropped the ball, more than I had imagined.

 

I'm sure there's a Nintendo exec somewhere who is delighted that you used this feature. :p

So, you had the console, and the feature came in handy.

If you were going around your mate's house on Friday and neither one of you had a Wii U, would you go out to buy a Wii U because you could use that feature?

The answer for the majority of people is no. This is evident in the sales of the system which are generally very poor. The public don't want this feature. Gamers don't have THAT much of a need for it. Or a desire.

It's a neat little feature, if I was travelling around etc.

On buying the console.. yeah sure, I would say No.

But then I wouldn't go out to buy a PS4/X1 either, so surely, what's good for the goose is good for the gander(s).

 

You mean last generation, right? The 360 and PS3 are cheaper.

 

No, we're talking about the Wii U here, not the Wii.

[Serebii]

You mean last generation, right? The 360 and PS3 are cheaper.

 

Wii U is NOT last generation. Generation has nothing to do with power. Come on, you know this.

 

Couldn't let that slide, sorry. Off I go again.

[Goron_3]

Wii U is NOT last generation. Generation has nothing to do with power. Come on, you know this.

 

Couldn't let that slide, sorry. Off I go again.

 

Agreed, although I think they were talking about generations in terms of power (i.e. Wii U is a generation behind PS4 in terms of power, which it is).

 

Btw, I think myself and Flink made some great points in response to your claims on the previous page (which I think came about from you misunderstanding what people were talking about); you could at least acknowledge them, brah. Because otherwise, you'll just start your defence of Nintendo again another time and we'll just repeat the whole convo again.

[Pestneb]

So why weren't people saying this when the N64, PSOne and Dreamcast were branched as being in the same generation?

 

Since when was generation just about power?

 

Its actually kind of sad the way power and graphics has just dominated the industry and peoples minds as to what makes a quality console.

 

Because people fail to understand what "generation" means.

Obviously consoles don't have progeny. However, that aside.

 

MS > MG >saturn>DC

NES > SNES > N64 > GC > Wii > WII U

.....................PS > PS2 > PS3 > PS4

.............................. XB > XB360> XB1

 

Generations are distinct from power.

 

Wii U is clearly in the same generation as PS4 and XB1.

[Retro_Link]

I'm well aware the Wii U is in the same generation as the PS4 and XBone, thanks guys.

 

But you have to consider the power side of things too because otherwise it's a flawed concept... Nintendo don't produce consoles powerful enough to last a 'generation', and therefore what?... a new console in 2 years time, another console 4-5 years after that?... They'll be two 'generations' ahead by the time the PS5 and Xbone2 come out!

[Blade]

I do think that it would be a good idea for Nintendo to reduce the price of the console by removing the gamepad. I understand that it is supposed to be the USP of the console but to be honest I have yet to experience a Nintendo game that fully utilises it.

 

The gamepad therefore becomes something that I can play my games on the small screen. I know people really enjoy and sometimes play exclusive on the pad but for me I prefer to play games if possible on a HDTV so the gamepad isn't really used for off tv. I would have been happy to have the console without the gamepad and pay less money.

 

I suppose if the Wii U came out whilst I was a student and in a shared house then I would be jizzing over the off tv feature as I could just play it when I want rather when my housemates aren't watching the TV.

[Serebii]

I do think that it would be a good idea for Nintendo to reduce the price of the console by removing the gamepad. I understand that it is supposed to be the USP of the console but to be honest I have yet to experience a Nintendo game that fully utilises it.

 

The gamepad therefore becomes something that I can play my games on the small screen. I know people really enjoy and sometimes play exclusive on the pad but for me I prefer to play games if possible on a HDTV so the gamepad isn't really used for off tv. I would have been happy to have the console without the gamepad and pay less money.

 

I suppose if the Wii U came out whilst I was a student and in a shared house then I would be jizzing over the off tv feature as I could just play it when I want rather when my housemates aren't watching the TV.

That's just not possible. The entire OS would have to be coded. Patches would have to be coded & pushed out for all games. It really isn't something they can just decide on a whim to remove just because it doesn't have a single title to make people think it's massive selling point