dazzybee Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 When you say NOW, when do you mean? Since the Wii? Or including the Wii?! Personally I think Nintendoland is a new experience? And what companies do make groundbreaking games?! And also, why is this a desire, surely we just want to play amazing games?!! If it's amazing and ground breaking great, but why do we have to slag a company off for just making amazing versions of games we've played before?! I'm sure you've argued for an FZero and Starfox, and wouldn't mind new versions of the same game? Why? Just so you can then slag them off for doing it?! I wouldn't swap Mario 3D world or Pikmin for ANY game!! But please tell me what ground breaking games have been made in recent years?! You're getting a PS4 purely for Infamous, surely that'll be a prettier version of Infamous 2? Uncharted, will that be anything other than a prettier version? They'll probably great games and that's all that matters but why have such double standards?!
Sheikah Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) By now I mean now. Pretty clear what I meant, really. And why is that a desire? Can't tell if serious. You want to keep playing roughly the same game over and over again? I'm not saying all consoles aren't guilty of that, but aside from the Wii_ range (which has now gone out of fashion), they didn't bring anywhere near the same level of new IP to the table as some other consoles. Also 'you're getting a PS4 purely for Infamous'. Do not troll so weakly. Of course I'm not. Edited March 15, 2014 by Sheikah
dazzybee Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) By now I mean now. Pretty clear what I meant, really. And why is that a desire? Can't tell if serious. You want to keep playing roughly the same game over and over again? I'm not saying all consoles aren't guilty of that, but aside from the Wii_ range (which has now gone out of fashion), they didn't bring anywhere near the same level of new IP to the table as some other consoles. NOW could mean the past 5 years, could mean the past 2 years, it could mean the Wii u it could mean 2014. As for desire, I'm deadly serious. Do we want the music we listen to to be always different, or every film to be revolutionary? No, and we shouldn't our games. Like I said if so why are you looking forward to Infamous 3 so much?! And you've changed it to new IP now, so which is it? New IP or new experiences because a lot of new ip are just old experiences in new wrapping! I just want to play great games, sometimes they're great because they offer something new like Wii Sports or Zombi U or Heavy Rain, and sometimes they're great because they're built on incredible foundation - Pikmin, Mario, Uncharted 2 etc. I'm happy with either. But you slag Nintendo off for it because you love slagging off nintendo off, because you're more than happy to be excited by Infamous 3 and uncharted, and kill zone or whatever. fact is, we love certain games, and we want more of it! I want more mario 3d, I want more Mario Kart and Smash, I want more Fzero, Waverace, Metroid etc. Edited March 15, 2014 by -Dem0- Let's keep it clean.
Sheikah Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) Now - at the moment,*at present,*just now,*right now,*at the present time,*at the present moment,*at this time,*at this moment in time, currently,*here and now (Google definition) I am genuinely in awe at how you could possibly interpret that as 'in the last 5 years', or that you're even making a deal of this. Real classy to call me a nob and tell me why I'm apparently buying a PS4, though. I swear, can't you ever keep it civil? Edited March 15, 2014 by Sheikah
dazzybee Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Now - at the moment,*at present,*just now,*right now,*at the present time,*at the present moment,*at this time,*at this moment in time, currently,*here and now (Google definition) I am genuinely in awe at how you could possibly interpret that as 'in the last 5 years', or that you're even making a deal of this. Real classy to call me a nob and tell me why I'm apparently buying a PS4, though. I swear, can't you ever keep it civil? Now? i don't think Nintendo released any games today?! Can you not see how irritinag pedantic you are being, it was a perfectly fine question to clarify what you meant by now! You are simply impossible to have any kind of discussion with... I'm trying, I'm asking you questions you're conveniently ignoring, I'm giving opinions on how i View videoegames and all I get are these inane response.... Also 'you're getting a PS4 purely for Infamous'. Do not troll so weakly. Of course I'm not. Just noticed this. Why's it a troll?! I don't think there's anything wrong with that? Are you this unbearable in real life?!
Grazza Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 @RedShell - your latest avatar is brilliant (the one with Mario watching the TV). It honestly took me a few minutes to stop laughing at it.
Sheikah Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Just noticed this. Why's it a troll?! I don't think there's anything wrong with that? Are you this unbearable in real life?! Good lord, can you please stop being so thoroughly unpleasant? Why do you have to always make it personal? I'm getting the PS4 for several games. But the first game I'm getting with it is Infamous (and the games I've accrued on Plus).
Jonnas Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Can we agree that calling someone a troll is grounds to end any discussion right there and then? Because this Sheikah/Dazzybee talk really shouldn't have continued from that moment on.
Sheikah Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Dude, the discussion ends when the person trolls, not when someone calls them out for it. Well, not that it was much of a discussion anyway. What is NAOWWW!!
Dcubed Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) @RedShell - your latest avatar is brilliant (the one with Mario watching the TV). It honestly took me a few minutes to stop laughing at it. Yeah it's great. The sig got a chuckle out of me too. Very clever Edited March 15, 2014 by Dcubed
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Okay, lets put things into some perspective... What are Nintendo doing that is good with the Wii U or is having a positive effect at large?
Hero-of-Time Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 Okay, lets put things into some perspective... What are Nintendo doing that is good with the Wii U or is having a positive effect at large? They are giving us time to clear our backlog.
Ashley Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I still think Miiverse is one of the best things they've done for quite some time. I seldom use it, but it's a great on-brand service.
dazzybee Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Dude, the discussion ends when the person trolls, not when someone calls them out for it. Well, not that it was much of a discussion anyway. What is NAOWWW!! You're the one trolling, I've been asking questions and giving opinions in every one of my posts and you ignore them all and post stuff like this which doesn't forward the discussion. I'm interested as to why you think all games should be new experiences and innovative etc. It's an interesting point is isn't it? Also why you're happy to be excited by infamous but call out Nintendo for mario 3d and pikmin. I suppose a broader question, and Nintendo have commented on this specifically, is that if a game uses characters and worlds we're very familiar with but change the mechanics within it, does that feel as new as a new ip based on a mechanic we've seen and played so many times, but just a new skin. I still think Miiverse is one of the best things they've done for quite some time. I seldom use it, but it's a great on-brand service. Yeah I think it's great. I wish it was faster and could tie in with games more - like in DK when you set a time trial it posts to miiverse (and maybe even see the video from the miiverse post) and you can click the post and it takes you to that time trial level in the game. A bit more connected. What's positive is they update it in tiny ways every couple of weeks so hopefully they'll keep improving it as the potential is still far better than the execution. Okay, lets put things into some perspective... What are Nintendo doing that is good with the Wii U or is having a positive effect at large? The gamepad, however under utilised, still offers some great experiences in my opinion - off tv play is a great idea, it's use in local multiplayer to allow for more players (5) is great, and the very few games which use it in interesting ways is still exciting, and hopefully they'll stay true to their word and really push it further! The eshop is finally kicking into gear, so indies will start flooding on the system from April. It's backwards compatible. Don't have to pay to play online.
Sheikah Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Right, ok. You're not trolling at all. Because I totally said all games should be new experiences, because I said I am buying a PS4 purely for Infamous, because you didn't just cause a lengthy argument about what I meant when I said 'now'. I mean, what the fuck? What is your problem here, really? My original point was clear - I believe Nintendo were making groundbreaking games back on the N64 - Mario 64, Ocarina, Super Smash, Mario Kart (in 3D form). These were games that pushed all boundaries. Now I expect sequels to games and will enjoy them, but I also expect new ideas and the shaking up of the formula every now and again. I think Nintendo now rely too heavily on preestablished game designs when making sequels and, while these sequels are sound, don't excite in the same way as when you play that kind of game for the first time. It's about striking up a balance between old and new - and the new being awesome and exciting, too. And I don't believe they have that balance anymore.
dazzybee Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Right, ok. You're not trolling at all. Because I totally said all games should be new experiences, because I said I am buying a PS4 purely for Infamous, because you didn't just cause a lengthy argument about what I meant when I said 'now'. I mean, what the fuck? What is your problem here, really? My original point was clear - I believe Nintendo were making groundbreaking games back on the N64 - Mario 64, Ocarina, Super Smash, Mario Kart (in 3D form). These were games that pushed all boundaries. Now I expect sequels to games and will enjoy them, but I also expect new ideas and the shaking up of the formula every now and again. I think Nintendo now rely too heavily on preestablished game designs when making sequels and, while these sequels are sound, don't excite in the same way as when you play that kind of game for the first time. It's about striking up a balance between old and new - and the new being awesome and exciting, too. And I don't believe they have that balance anymore. I know I shouldn't respond to you but I can't help it... - you may not have said all should be you were certainly implying it, I was asking you questions for clarity and you kept with your inane childish replies, so you're saying pretty much what I did ages ago, awesome. - I never said you're only buying a ps4 for infamous, but you are buying it for when infamous comes out, you didn't get it at launch, you waited for infamous, that's what I meant. I don't understand why you got so defensive about this. - fuck me. I asked what you meant by now as it could mean a number of things, YOURE the one who instead of saying the last year and now or whatever, acted like you always do, like a fucking child and tried patronising It's all about opinion. I would say mario 3d world is has more new ideas than uncharted 2 and 3 did to 1. Or what infamous 3 APPEARS to have, or from a game design perspective what last of us does. Now they're probably all brilliant in their own way, but it's about what you want from gaming. My main point was I think it's weird you're happy with uncharted and infamous doing the same thing, but lambast Nintendo for it, but fine, maybe those franchises appeal to your more, and obviously last of us has it's narrative and presentation qualities.
Kav Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Right, ok. You're not trolling at all. Because I totally said all games should be new experiences, because I said I am buying a PS4 purely for Infamous, because you didn't just cause a lengthy argument about what I meant when I said 'now'. I mean, what the fuck? What is your problem here, really? My original point was clear - I believe Nintendo were making groundbreaking games back on the N64 - Mario 64, Ocarina, Super Smash, Mario Kart (in 3D form). These were games that pushed all boundaries. Now I expect sequels to games and will enjoy them, but I also expect new ideas and the shaking up of the formula every now and again. I think Nintendo now rely too heavily on preestablished game designs when making sequels and, while these sequels are sound, don't excite in the same way as when you play that kind of game for the first time. It's about striking up a balance between old and new - and the new being awesome and exciting, too. And I don't believe they have that balance anymore. I know, let's take the first games of their kind in 3D and then compare how other games won't be as groundbreaking. Of course the majority of games aren't going to be as groundbreaking as the lot you'd been listing! Yet given the few you'd mentioned, most games in their respective genres that you could argue have been groundbreaking have been Nintendo games! Zelda - Skyward Sword was groundbreaking in it's use of motion control which was amazing (for those that didn't like it, I simply think you're nuts). Mario - Galaxy, this was the most groundbreaking platformer since Mario 64 and one of the best games of all time... faultless! Sure they're not this new generation but nobody else last gen brought something as groundbreaking to the table as them. We'll see how Smash and Mario Kart fare with this generation but I don't see them being groundbreaking, although I'd say I haven't seen a single other game in the same genres that I'd call groundbreaking too. Then I look across all other games and platforms and try to think of the last game I though was groundbreaking and I'm not sure of what I feel has been groundbreaking. Maybe Little Big Planet, kind of, but the game is in the building of the levels for me, not really the playing of them as I feel the characters/controls don't feel as precise as they should be... the feel a little unwieldy. Anyhoo, I'm going to agree with @dazzybee that just because Nintendo's games are long-running franchises, it doesn't mean they never feel fresh or new. Nintendo are still breaking ground in that respect. Edited March 16, 2014 by Kav
Sheikah Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 I don't get why you keep comparing current Nintendo games to Uncharted and the like. Uncharted is a somewhat formulaic sequel generator just like Zelda or Mario is to Nintendo. Never have I implied otherwise - this is you having formed another argument over a point that you believe I have made, but haven't. The new types of games aren't going to be Uncharted 4; those will likely be the sequels. The fresh game types that I was getting at that came out on PS3 were Demon's Souls, Journey, flow, LittleBigPlanet, Valkyria Chronicles, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls and to some extent The Last of Us. And at least in their first/earlier iterations you have Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted and Infamous (as in, before they became serialised). So it's not hard to see the point I'm getting at here - most of the big hitters on the PS3 were new for that generation. Most of Nintendo's big hitters these days are games that very closely mimic earlier releases, many of which were released a number of generations ago. Their games tend to be a lot more conserved, and while I don't think they're bad games, I think they do need to bring more new games and IP to the table, give some games/franchises a rest and attempt to redeliver that 'wow' factor like they did back in the 64 days. Which I appreciate is more difficult in this age, but they should still try. I'd also like to point out that you saying someone is 'like a fucking child' does exactly the opposite of what you're trying to achieve.
Daft Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Uncharted pushes narrative boundaries. To the point where they broke them in U3 and ended up with a mess. It's not that hard to appreciate, tbh. Games like Halo work online because AI sucks..Nintendoland would stand to benefit less, because it is less reliant on intelligent AI. Wut? The AI in Halo is absolutely brilliant. The difference between Normal and Heroic is night and day. It's probably the only game that responsive AI should be noted as an actual gameplay feature. Bungie are the masters of that craft. Honestly cannot wait to see how they can expand on this with more power at their disposal.
Sheikah Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 ... I would have to say out of that, Galaxy was the only one that delivered a true wow for me. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this, but I didn't find Skyward Sword particularly inspired, rather quite annoyingly latching onto the flavour of the generation that happened to be motion controls. The gameplay remained mostly unchanged but with motion input to defeat enemies and control the bird. If other people really liked motion controls then their opinion may well be different, but for me this wasn't enough to create a totally new experience. And it felt lacking in other areas too (particularly the overworld and characters). I don't doubt Smash and Mario Kart will be good games, but they are essentially going to be more of the same. Which is fine, but I don't see Nintendo delivering at least as much new stuff to go with it. Nintendo very much feels these days 'when will Zelda/Mario/Smash number X be released' rather than 'what will they do next?'
Ashley Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 This really feels like a conversation that needs to happen via PMs or... Elsewhere. It's a bit played out here.
Daft Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Demon's Souls (kicked off big time this whole asynchronous gameplay stuff as well as the game invasion form of gameplay), The Last of Us (motion capture and narrative) were probably the last two groundbreaking consoles games. Minecraft and FTL on PC are probably another two. Shit, ground is broken all the time. Hell, League of Legends is groundbreaking in terms of spectatorship. Seriously, so many great innovations from so many places. Such an exciting time to play games. People act like Nintendo are the end-all and it's bizarre. Edited March 16, 2014 by Daft
Kav Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 This is the thing @Sheikah it's going to be opinions that effect each side of the argument most. In the games you listed, none wow me. Albeit I'm yet to play the Last of Us and Demon Souls... although Demon Souls just doesn't seem to interest me and I only want to play The Last of Us for the story as I hear it's great storytelling. And then there's the thing for me, storytelling is one thing, but I don't need a narrative in a game. For me it's not nearly the most important thing in a game, it's about how the game actually plays, hence my love for the Mario games! Hence why I think the Uncharted games are MASSIVELY overrated. Infamous, that may well have been a new IP but it didn't feel new, it felt like a typical sandbox game I'd played before albeit with a new skin. Skyword Sword felt much more fresh than those games just due to the motion control alone... which again, I thought was amazing!
Sheikah Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) I know opinion forms a great part of what wows you, but at the end of the day it's hard to argue that most of Nintendo's big hitters are serialised, whereas elsewhere a lot of the big hitters were new to that generation. Even if they have become somewhat serialised now as a result of their popularity. If you like Nintendo games a lot more then obviously continue to praise them. It's just for me, I'm looking for old and new, with a particular emphasis on new on account of me getting slightly more bored with specific franchsises with each release. On a slight tangent, Resi 4 was like the perfect thing for me. They took a franchise, ripped up what it was and made something brilliant and new with the characters, theme (somewhat) and a few other things left in. That's what I think so many series could benefit from! Edited March 16, 2014 by Sheikah
Kav Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 That's what Dazzy and I are getting at, a lot of the new IPs last gen didn't feel new, just re-skinned. Yeah Nintendo's games are long standing franchises but they contain elements that make them feel fresh and new. That's what it seems you're not getting about our point.
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