Hero-of-Time Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 At least the Dreamcast had God mode Capcom supporting it. PowerStone 1&2, Resident Evil: Code Veronica, Tech Romancer, Project Justice, Marvel Vs Capcom 1&2, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Cannon Spike...etc. Saying that, Capcom don't seem to supporting any of the consoles well these days.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 At least the Dreamcast had God mode Capcom supporting it. PowerStone 1&2, Resident Evil: Code Veronica, Tech Romancer, Project Justice, Marvel Vs Capcom 1&2, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Cannon Spike...etc. Saying that, Capcom don't seem to supporting any of the consoles well these days. I was just thinking about that the other day. What are they doing now? They don't seem to be doing an awful lot.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 3, 2014 Author Posted December 3, 2014 I was just thinking about that the other day. What are they doing now? They don't seem to be doing an awful lot. They seem to be chasing the mobile rainbow, for the most part. We have Resident Evil HD and Revelations 2 next year and Deep Down should surface next year. They are also teasing a new game announcement soon. They are still around but they are a shadow of their former selves. It's another case of a Japanese developer losing the plot and not being able to keep up with Western developers. It's frustrating because they have a gold mine of unused IPs but they either have no interest of using them or just simply don't know how to.
Goafer Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 I can understand what you're saying with the Dreamcast example and there are a few similarities there. However...I do think you're doing the Dreamcast a bit of an injustice there. The machine itself and the games still contributed a fuck of a lot to gaming. It gave us online with Phantasy Star Online, it gave us iconic games such as Shenmue, Soul Caliber and Crazy Taxi and the design of the controller paved the way for the Xbox-brand. In about 20 years time, will gamers still talk about the WiiU in the same way that the Dreamcast is fondly remembered of? In my opinion, no. The games that I mentioned above gave us new ideas, it allowed gaming to branch off into new pathways. What does the WiiU really do or have that sets it apart from the other consoles or systems in history? In my opinion, not a lot. The third party comparison between the DC and WiiU is uncanny, though. It's a bit of a bitter pill to swallow to see Nintendo emulate SEGA in that regard. Oh don't get me wrong, the DC was probably my favourite console of all time (for pretty much all the reasons you listed), but if a lack of third party support fucked a reasonably strong console like the DC, forcing Sega out of the console business, imagine what it'll do (and is doing) to the already struggling WiiU. It's naive for Nintendo to keep doing what they're doing. Releasing underpowered machines just restricts developers, who will take (and have taken) their games elsewhere. I think the next generation will make or break Nintendo. Again, comparing it to Sega, they fucked up royal with the Saturn and they couldn't bring it back with the DC. I guess we'll have to see if Nintendo follows Sega or if they can fix their mistakes in the next generation. I personally think the damage is done now though.
Grazza Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah, "poor" is the wrong word for Dreamcast, but I see the similarity in that the wider industry wasn't going to support it. The 3rd-party exclusives may have been good, but it wasn't destined to get the multi-platform games that the PS2 and Xbox went on to receive. To be honest, I like my Wii U more than I expected and the graphics are good enough for me, personally, it's just that this situation was so predictable. If you're not in the race, you're not in the race.
liger05 Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) If you imagine the games industry as a race, Nintendo is a little boy with a nice suit and a gimpy leg. Sure, they're well presented, but they're always behind. They were last to adopt CDs, they were last to adopt HD and they're still dragging their heels with online. That's why they just can't compete when it comes to multiplatform and why third parties are staying away. The Dreamcast was a prime example of what happens when a console receives poor third party support. The dreamcast actually had some decent 3rd party support it was just EA being the big publisher that stayed away. It wasnt like the PS2 level of support but if the wii u had the 3rd party support the DC had I would be pretty content. Oh don't get me wrong, the DC was probably my favourite console of all time (for pretty much all the reasons you listed), but if a lack of third party support fucked a reasonably strong console like the DC, forcing Sega out of the console business, imagine what it'll do (and is doing) to the already struggling WiiU. Sega ran out of money. They already burned through there cash with the Saturn and the commercial failures before it. By the time they released a good console in the DC they were basically banking on the DC to dig them out of the financial hole they created beforehand. Remember Sega were very different to Nintendo in the sense they created enough 1st and 2nd party content to carry the console. They released games covering a wide spectrum of genres that with the DC there was no drought periods even if the 3rd party support wasnt on the same level of the PS1. Edited December 4, 2014 by liger05
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 If you imagine the games industry as a race, Nintendo is a little boy with a nice suit and a gimpy leg. Sure, they're well presented, but they're always behind. They were last to adopt CDs, they were last to adopt HD and they're still dragging their heels with online. That's why they just can't compete when it comes to multiplatform and why third parties are staying away. The Dreamcast was a prime example of what happens when a console receives poor third party support. You wot? Didn't Nintendo create a console that not only entered pop culture, not only turned the games industry on its head, but actually forced both Microsoft and Sony (more blatantly Sony) to copy their idea a mere generation ago? Wii also sold better than the behemoth that is PS4, after the same amount of time on sale in the UK at least! Nintendo aren't always a step behind others, infact they are key innovators in the games industry. What they have done is make an utter mess of making, selling, and advertising the Wii U, to the point where they seem just happy to sell games to existing customers and that will be that, with no interest in gaining new ground with this console. But one botched console doesn't a disaster make!
Hero-of-Time Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 You wot? Didn't Nintendo create a console that not only entered pop culture, not only turned the games industry on its head, but actually forced both Microsoft and Sony (more blatantly Sony) to copy their idea a mere generation ago? Wii also sold better than the behemoth that is PS4, after the same amount of time on sale in the UK at least! Nintendo aren't always a step behind others, infact they are key innovators in the games industry. What they have done is make an utter mess of making, selling, and advertising the Wii U, to the point where they seem just happy to sell games to existing customers and that will be that, with no interest in gaining new ground with this console. But one botched console doesn't a disaster make! Where is motion controlled gaming now though? Unlike a lot of their innovations it didn't translate into the next generation. Hell, Nintendo themselves have practically ditched it in favour for the Gamepad. Many called the Wii a fad and it turned out that's all it was. They haven't just botched one console they've botched a few. N64 got beaten by the competition, Gamecube got beaten by the competition and the Wii U looks to be in the same state. All of Nintendo consoles have have a downward trend in terms of sales, the Wii was the exception to this rule due to capturing a different market, which some would argue has done more damage than good in the long run. I dunno why the Wii vs PS4 sales has been brought to the argument but bear in mind the price difference ( £180 vs £350 ) and the fact that the PS4 didn't have the expanded market snapping the thing up, just gamers.
Rummy Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Wii U has now passed the 2 million sold milestone in Japan after this weeks sales. The exact total sold is 2,009,513. Edit: Here's a graph I found showing weekly sales from launch right up to the present day. What was the cause of that spike in the middle there? Also how does it compare to LTD sales in other territories, if you know where to find that info?
liger05 Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I dunno why the Wii vs PS4 sales has been brought to the argument but bear in mind the price difference ( £180 vs £350 ) and the fact that the PS4 didn't have the expanded market snapping the thing up, just gamers. True but the Wii could of retailed for £299 and that thing still would of sold like crazy. The demand for that thing was off the charts.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 True but the Wii could of retailed for £299 and that thing still would of sold like crazy. The demand for that thing was off the charts. Initially I would have argued against your point but then I remembered just what kind of price people are willing to pay to upgrade their iphones on a yearly basis. I doubt we will ever see a console create such a widespread craze again. That video of the E3 doors opening will remain in my head forever.
Wii Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 What was the cause of that spike in the middle there? Also how does it compare to LTD sales in other territories, if you know where to find that info? The spike was the Christmas period last year. As of October and Nintendo's quarterly results, the Wii U had sold 7.3 million. If we're optimistic that number might be hovering around the 8 million mark. No I'd say it's more likely 7.5 million sold. It's sold 3 million in the U.S. so the rest is 2.5 million sold in Europe and other territories.
Clownferret Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Where is motion controlled gaming now though? Unlike a lot of their innovations it didn't translate into the next generation. Hell, Nintendo themselves have practically ditched it in favour for the Gamepad. Many called the Wii a fad and it turned out that's all it was. They haven't just botched one console they've botched a few. N64 got beaten by the competition, Gamecube got beaten by the competition and the Wii U looks to be in the same state. All of Nintendo consoles have have a downward trend in terms of sales, the Wii was the exception to this rule due to capturing a different market, which some would argue has done more damage than good in the long run. I dunno why the Wii vs PS4 sales has been brought to the argument but bear in mind the price difference ( £180 vs £350 ) and the fact that the PS4 didn't have the expanded market snapping the thing up, just gamers. motion controls are not widely used, but it will be a sad day in the ferret house if EA drop it for PGA15. For games like Tennis, Golf, Baseball, Bowling motion controls were a revelation. This is what baffles me with Wii U, Nintendo create a control method perfectly matched to sports games, everybody loves it but wished it could be in HD, Nintendo release a HD console, that is backwards compatible with the motion controls and then don't release a single fucking sports game on the sytem. And don't ever put the words botched console and N64 in the same sentence.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 And don't ever put the words botched console and N64 in the same sentence. I adore the N64 as much as the next guy ( my N64 collection has been going great this year, with Mario Golf just arriving yesterday ) but from a business and sales stand point it was exactly that, a botched console. Running with cartridges instead of CDs allowed Sony to get a foot in the door and set up the Playstation brand.
Clownferret Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 I adore the N64 as much as the next guy ( my N64 collection has been going great this year, with Mario Golf just arriving yesterday ) but from a business and sales stand point it was exactly that, a botched console. Running with cartridges instead of CDs allowed Sony to get a foot in the door and set up the Playstation brand. well i for one don't recall every playing 4 player local mario tennis and thinking this experience would be so much better if they'd sold a few more consoles, likewise I don't recall playing Resident Evil and every time I got a loading screen thinking, I'm so glad this on a CD.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 well i for one don't recall every playing 4 player local mario tennis and thinking this experience would be so much better if they'd sold a few more consoles, likewise I don't recall playing Resident Evil and every time I got a loading screen thinking, I'm so glad this on a CD. I'm not gonna argue about the quality of games on the console but seeing as this is the sales topic then that's where the points I made are relevant.
Sheikah Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 well i for one don't recall every playing 4 player local mario tennis and thinking this experience would be so much better if they'd sold a few more consoles, likewise I don't recall playing Resident Evil and every time I got a loading screen thinking, I'm so glad this on a CD. He said from a business standpoint, not a technical one. And it all started from there (even though the N64 is my favourite console).
dazzybee Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Also, is there any actual need for local multiplayer in FPSes anymore? As for other local multiplayer games, there are plenty of them on both PS4 and XBO. really? Why wouldn't there be a need for local play in FPS? What a weird thing to say. All games are fun in local play, FPS included. I've played cod many times locally and it's brilliant, and Zombi U mutiplayer is amazing. Why is FPS exempt from local play? As for ps and xb having plenty. Not in the same league as Wii u. Nintendo doesn't have much to credit, but at least give them what they deserve. In about 20 years time, will gamers still talk about the WiiU in the same way that the Dreamcast is fondly remembered of? In my opinion, no. The games that I mentioned above gave us new ideas, it allowed gaming to branch off into new pathways. What does the WiiU really do or have that sets it apart from the other consoles or systems in history? In my opinion, not a lot. This conversation has been happening since the n64. Then opinions revised the generations that followed - n64 is crap, no games, gamecube comes out - game he's crap, ni games, n64 was amazing, Wii comes out - Wii is crop, just kiddy and waggle games, gamecube was amazing, now the ss e with the Wii u. I think Wii u will be remembered very fondly like all consoles. People will remember the best version of mario kart. Best pikmin. Best smash bros. I'm positive Nintendoland will be revised to the multiplayer masterpiece it is. Things like zombi u will survive and off tv play. Miiverse too. And amiibo. And we're two years in - xenoblade and Zelda could be generation defining games. Maybe people will remember the weirdness of lego City, toad, the new kirby or whatever as quirky masterpieces. Mario maker could be a gem. Who knows what else.
Daft Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 really? Why wouldn't there be a need for local play in FPS? What a weird thing to say. All games are fun in local play, FPS included. I've played cod many times locally and it's brilliant, and Zombi U mutiplayer is amazing. Why is FPS exempt from local play? As for ps and xb having plenty. Not in the same league as Wii u. Nintendo doesn't have much to credit, but at least give them what they deserve. Because you lose a lot of screen space to split screen. Which might have been fine 15 years ago when we were all playing Goldeneye and everything looked like a box but becomes a real issue with increased detail. Personally I find that frustrating. I'm used to playing with a whole TV. Anyway - that's personal preference - my argument was about demand, and that FPSes are so much more suited to online play than local; you don't hear calls for split-screen in FPSes, unlike in other genres like racing games. Also, 'Not in the same league as the Wii U'? Whatever. I can't be bothered to have this discussion again. I'm happy enough playing Resogun, Towerfall, Nidhogg, Geometry Wars 3, Little Big Planet 3, Minecraft (that's hilarious, a first-person game that I don't have problem playing split screen...because it's blocky), Diablo 3...yeah, not in the same league. That's a laughable thing to say. I'm not saying Nintendo doesn't have great local games because they do, but that isn't unique to them and yeah, there are way more titles to choose from on other systems.
Sheikah Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 No way they are going to remember Wii U the same way. Derivative sequels do not make for a memorable console. N64 had so many new games and because it was 3D, it was fresh to everyone.
dazzybee Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Because you lose a lot of screen space to split screen. Which might have been fine 15 years ago when we were all playing Goldeneye and everything looked like a box but becomes a real issue with increased detail. Personally I find that frustrating. I'm used to playing with a whole TV. But that's what's amazing about the Wii u. You can play 2 player and still have the screen to yourself. One on the tv and one on the gamepad. Can even go online doing the same thing. It's a great feature.
Wii Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 But that's what's amazing about the Wii u. You can play 2 player and still have the screen to yourself. One on the tv and one on the gamepad. Can even go online doing the same thing. It's a great feature. That is a great feature. Unfortunately it's only done in a few games like Sonic Racing Transformed and Black Ops II. As far as I'm aware other than Nintendo Land in some of the various minigames, no other 1st party game has this feature. Mario Kart 8 would have been brilliant with it instead of the hideous looking vertical split screen 2 player mode we have.
Clownferret Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 That is a great feature. Unfortunately it's only done in a few games like Sonic Racing Transformed and Black Ops II. As far as I'm aware other than Nintendo Land in some of the various minigames, no other 1st party game has this feature. Mario Kart 8 would have been brilliant with it instead of the hideous looking vertical split screen 2 player mode we have. DAMN STRAIGHT BROTHER! Considering I play the Mario Kart league with my son, the split screen really kills it. Shame on Nintendo for not using one of the best features of the gamepad on their biggest game.
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Just shame on Nintendo man. Shame shame shame. This GC adapter/Smash situation is killing me. It's unbelievable. Nintendo are always fucking half-measures, completely out of touch with their fanbase. Their continually dwindling fanbase. For good fucking reason. It kills me to say it, but Smash or no Smash, I find it highly unlikely I will be supporting Nintendo's next console without a damn good reason. Whatever I had left has really been killed by this GC adapter fiasco.
Wii Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Just shame on Nintendo man. Shame shame shame. This GC adapter/Smash situation is killing me. It's unbelievable. Nintendo are always fucking half-measures, completely out of touch with their fanbase. Their continually dwindling fanbase. For good fucking reason. It kills me to say it, but Smash or no Smash, I find it highly unlikely I will be supporting Nintendo's next console without a damn good reason. Whatever I had left has really been killed by this GC adapter fiasco. I've been reading the horror stories about the cancelled Smash bundles and I'd be gutted if it happened to me. No gutted is the wrong word, I'd be fuming. What's worse is now a lot of places have hiked the prices up, even amiibo. So even if they do find it, they'll most likely be paying way more. The game alone where I bought it has gone up by €5. The adapter was overpriced much like other Nintendo hardware to begin with. I too won't be buying Nintendo's next console at launch, got burned way too badly and I'm going to see how things pan out first, not listen to their lies. I think it's too late for some people, they won't be coming back and you're right, it is a dwindling fanbase. And this will be my first time not buying their console at launch. My patience has run out with Nintendo.
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