Sheikah Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 It's like saying we can't just focus on cancer research and call it medicine. Sure, another lab is working on parkinsons. And that's fine! I don't think it is. Cancer and, say, heart disease are two different kettles of fish would require completely different people with a lifetime's worth of knowledge to understand them. In fact, several lifetimes of knowledge. So I could completely understand different knowledge bases dedicated to them. It makes no sense to me why that site couldn't also include sexism towards men. It also makes a statement in focusing only on women, one that many in this thread have picked up on. I also agree with the double standards thing some people are saying. If you are openly sexist to women in most modern workplaces these days you will have your balls chopped off. Yet I often see sexist remarks towards men that are completely disregarded by everyone else.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 The problem is that there's still much more focus on women's right than on men's in the grand scheme of things, and there's still far too much scepticism regarding men even having problems at all - unfortunately perpetuated by at least some feminists. To continue your medical analogy, when there are ten research groups for cancer and only one for Parkinson's (and let's assume for the sake of the accuracy of the analogy that those two diseases are equally dangerous) and people still advocate creation of more cancer research groups while doubting whether Parkinson's is even a real disease, it starts to become a problem.
Aimless Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 It would be very easy to post a glib response to this. So I will. I think it's fucking disgusting that N-Europe only covers games for Nintendo platforms. It's clearly implying that games on other systems aren't worth discussing. Every website should be about all platforms. And subjects. Equality!
Sheikah Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 The irony is that it's a site devoted to sexism and ignores the fact that men also experience sexism, itself being somewhat sexist / displaying favouritism towards gender. No one is saying that it's committing an abhorrent sin, just that there is definitely more than a trace of irony there. N-E can cover stories on a company gone to crap if it likes, there's no irony in not covering the others. :p
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I don't think it is. Cancer and, say, heart disease are two different kettles of fish would require completely different people with a lifetime's worth of knowledge to understand them. In fact, several lifetimes of knowledge. So I could completely understand different knowledge bases dedicated to them. It makes no sense to me why that site couldn't also include sexism towards men. It also makes a statement in focusing only on women, one that many in this thread have picked up on. I also agree with the double standards thing some people are saying. If you are openly sexist to women in most modern workplaces these days you will have your balls chopped off. Yet I often see sexist remarks towards men that are completely disregarded by everyone else. You could also make the argument that sexism as a problem is genderless and an expression of old norms and roles that are restrictive to everyone. In light of that it makes less sense to focus exclusively and separately on men's issues or women's issues - in that case it's a universal, human problem.
Sheikah Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Yeah, considering that the aim is for equality it makes little sense to treat gender discrimination separately. And as an alternative view to the disease thing - different disease, different knowledge needed to treat. Same disease (or same problem - sexism) and it can be treated by the same people. Tell me, wouldn't it be weird to see separate international woman AIDS and man AIDS days? Some things make no sense to separate, other than the presence of an underlying agenda/motive.
Beast Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Oh the painful irony of that website. It's funny because both sexes are just as sexist. I get it all of the time. Because I work in a shoe shop, women tend to make comments like "Huh, men, what do THEY know?" so I just prove them wrong and tell them why they're getting aches and pains in their feet, what shoes would make their feet feel better, what shoes would go with what bag (something I picked up from a female assistant in my place), etc. and they stop then. You will always get arsy women who would do that but the women I hate are the ones who say women can't be sexist because they can. I'd also say the same with a bloke. Blokes think that women can't like football or drink beer or whatever but they can. The website is stupid and I will make a comment saying it's sexist.
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I suspect gaggle is far wiser than myself for perceiving the nature and direction of this thread long before I admitted it to myself. I want you all to know that you are my friends, but I sincerely hope that one day you will be as ashamed of saying things like this: "I found this website that pointed out sexism. But it didn't cater to sexism against men. That's sexist." as I am to read them. When you say these things, you make yourself the problem. In summary Yvonne out
Beast Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I've sent a message on it saying that they should open it to both sexes as both sexes experience sexism. I've also given a few examples of how I've experienced sexism. If the person on the site really does want to make a difference to fight sexism by showcasing stories, she should include both sexes and I don't see pointing that out as a problem, really.
Sheikah Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I suspect gaggle is far wiser than myself for perceiving the nature and direction of this thread long before I admitted it to myself. I want you all to know that you are my friends, but I sincerely hope that one day you will be as ashamed of saying things like this: as I am to read them. When you say these things, you make yourself the problem. In summary Yvonne out I would be ashamed if people were ashamed of that. It's a valid point. I'm not saying the site is a bad thing, just that it IS ironic. Sexism affects men and women, and like I showed above your analogy to different diseases is quite off (sexism is the same bag). I will argue over this as I find your standpoint rather ridiculous. :p
MoogleViper Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 No, I said the site perpetuated the myth that sexism is a female-only problem. The feminist-with-a-wooden-spoon joke was obviously just that, a joke. I think it's great if you're able to shrug off people being dicks to you. I endeavour to live up to that creed myself. But the way jay said it echoed in my ears as the typical response men seem to get whenever they wish to draw attention to their problems. They're expected to "man up" and get over it. Just a bit of an anecdote. I don't know, but quite a while ago there was a post/thread on here that brought up the view of rape, how it's only seen as a problem for women. It encountered the numerous cases of rape against men, how there are no charities against it, and said that a man from (iirc) Africa contacted the UN because he was being raped, and the UN told him they didn't have any department to deal with men being raped, or something to that effect, it was a while ago and I've forgot the finer points. Onto the point of my post, I brought this up to my mother and sister (separately), my mother is a bit of a sexist man-hater, but my sister isn't. Both of their reactions to men being raped was, "Well they should have been stronger then." Just imagine saying that to a woman who has been raped.
Diageo Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 The fact that men bring up men's issues whenever women say they have issues is not the same as being jealous over a ball. This is a thread about general sexism, so men can talk about sexism towards them. Why does there need to be a "man's gripes" thread? Do issues of sexism need to be separated into categories. I think having a general site about sexism and then saying it's only for women is quite ridiculous. It's the equivalent of having a homophobic website just for men. Or a heart disease website just for men. Or a parenting gripes website just for women. Say it in the title or you're making implications. It's not pedantic.
Iun Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Obviously everybody has already stated the blatant hypocrisy, so I'll point out a bit of everyday sexism that I've noticed. It's to do with the way that advertisers treat fathers. Everything that's good for kids is always aimed at mum's. Such as Iceland's "Mum knows best" and KFC's "Good thing Mum's good with money". There are loads of examples. Every single Pampers or Johnsons advert involves a mother being close to her child. Nothing wrong with that, but it's always a mother, never a father. What happened to the 21st century family? According to TV adverts we're still in the 50s, where dad brings in the money then goes off to drink beer or tinker with electrical items in the shed, and mum brings up the children and runs the household. It's disgusting. There are so many examples of it. Don't even go there. When my parents were divorcing, the Social Worker was one of those "mother knows best" types. My mother was an alcoholic, had beaten both me and my baby brother, had an affair and scratched my father's face to pieces... But still the courts and this lady believed I was making "the wrong choice" to stay with my father.
Beast Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Don't even go there. When my parents were divorcing, the Social Worker was one of those "mother knows best" types. My mother was an alcoholic, had beaten both me and my baby brother, had an affair and scratched my father's face to pieces... But still the courts and this lady believed I was making "the wrong choice" to stay with my father. That's horrible! I hate things like this, this is what makes my blood boil. I hate it when people are like "Everybody needs their mother" or, as you said yourself, "Mother knows best"...what about "Everybody needs their father" or even "Father knows best". I don't speak to my actual mother because of some issues in the past and I get the usual "You really should be with your mom" and stuff from people who know both of us and, except for "Mind it", I say "No thank you, I'm perfectly happy where I am" and I am. I live with my dad and my stepmom (who I call mom) and I'm happy. Social workers like that know absolutely nothing! It actually makes me fear the world and makes me sick sometimes! I'm sorry that happened to you, dude!
Iun Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 . I don't speak to my actual mother because of some issues in the past and I get the usual "You really should be with your mom" None of my business, but would you be willing to elaborate? My departed mother, whom I loved so dearly, left me with more than a few unresolved issues...
Cube Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I suppose the better thing to do is to not send messages pointing out that they only show sexism to women, but to send messages with examples of sexism you've experienced as a man.
Beast Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 None of my business, but would you be willing to elaborate? My departed mother, whom I loved so dearly, left me with more than a few unresolved issues... Basically, she wasn't a very nice person at all. She wasn't a drunk or anything like that, she was just really horrible to me. Hardly spoke to me sometimes, there was a time where she used to hit me for no reason but because she could, she literally had massive mood swings and I was to blame if they were bad, she used to treat me rotten...things like that. However, nobody actually knows what she's like even now because she's nice as pie to her friends' kids and her friends and that but only a select few know what she's like. One day, I just thought that enough was enough and left and told her if she wanted to contact me, she knew where I lived and my number. Been seven years and nothing. I'm happy about that though, it doesn't upset me like it did back then. The people who are in my life now are the people who matter most to me. If you don't mind my asking, when you say unresolved issues, do you mean emotionally or physically or anything? I suppose the better thing to do is to not send messages pointing out that they only show sexism to women, but to send messages with examples of sexism you've experienced as a man. Yeah, that's what I did. I pointed it out and gave out a few examples as to what I've experienced. I do experience it quite a bit, being a bloke and working in a shoe shop. When I advise women that they should have gel cushions and gel heel liners for their high-heeled shoes, some of them say "A man shouldn't know that!" and stuff. I feel like saying "Well, I work in a shoe shop, I need to know that, you dumb cow!" but I just laugh along with them.
Hamishmash Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Sorry but all this "you can be sexist to men toooo" screams of "Why isn't there a straight pride march?" and "You can be racist to white people too!" You can be prejudice and bigoted towards men, but saying you can be sexist towards them really trivialises the latent sexism in our society. "Everyday sexism" doesn't mean "Oh people assume I can't multi task BECAUSE I'M A MAN WAAAAAH". It's to do with how our society is constructed. How girls are told not to wear certain clothes or act in certain ways or they'll get raped (instead of men being taught not to rape). Men have the privilege of not being told to be scared, to protect themselves. Men obviously do get raped but their isn't a rape culture targeted directly at them like there is with women. Maybe there is a bit of sexism towards men but it's in such a pathetically minor way that whinging about it comes across as "Pregnancy? Periods? Try getting kicked in the balls! Women are soooo lucky!"
Eenuh Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Really guys? You're all getting worked up about this, because a website about sexism is aimed at women? If you really feel you need to vent your frustration about the sexism you experience, post it on there or make your own site... but moaning about it is not really gonna do anything. As for sexism, I have had my fair share. When I lived in Brussels, I walked around with huge ass scissors in my pocket as protection because I didn't feel safe. I got the usual, people calling out to me, whistling, coming up to me etc. I had a foreign man on a train basically say he wanted to marry me and take me to Africa with him. He actually took my train ticket from me so I couldn't walk away from him. Fucking bastard also gave me a kiss (on the cheek but still). Even here I still have to deal with stuff like this. The amount of times I've been honked or "whooped" at by simply standing on the side of the road waiting for Jim to pick me up, it's amazing.
Hamishmash Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Really guys? You're all getting worked up about this, because a website about sexism is aimed at women? If you really feel you need to vent your frustration about the sexism you experience, post it on there or make your own site... but moaning about it is not really gonna do anything. As for sexism, I have had my fair share. When I lived in Brussels, I walked around with huge ass scissors in my pocket as protection because I didn't feel safe. I got the usual, people calling out to me, whistling, coming up to me etc. I had a foreign man on a train basically say he wanted to marry me and take me to Africa with him. He actually took my train ticket from me so I couldn't walk away from him. Fucking bastard also gave me a kiss (on the cheek but still). Even here I still have to deal with stuff like this. The amount of times I've been honked or "whooped" at by simply standing on the side of the road waiting for Jim to pick me up, it's amazing. It's stuff like this that make "people don't take my opinion on shoes seriously" seem so pathetic, no offence. I think if many of the men who have experienced so called "male sexism" could live 1 day in the life of your average woman, they'd change their opinion. And that's in our supposedly more civilised countries.
Beast Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Sorry but all this "you can be sexist to men toooo" screams of "Why isn't there a straight pride march?" and "You can be racist to white people too!" You can be prejudice and bigoted towards men, but saying you can be sexist towards them really trivialises the latent sexism in our society. "Everyday sexism" doesn't mean "Oh people assume I can't multi task BECAUSE I'M A MAN WAAAAAH". It's to do with how our society is constructed. How girls are told not to wear certain clothes or act in certain ways or they'll get raped (instead of men being taught not to rape). Men have the privilege of not being told to be scared, to protect themselves. Men obviously do get raped but their isn't a rape culture targeted directly at them like there is with women. Maybe there is a bit of sexism towards men but it's in such a pathetically minor way that whinging about it comes across as "Pregnancy? Periods? Try getting kicked in the balls! Women are soooo lucky!" I'm sorry Hamish but I don't see how it is. You can be sexist to men and in some cases, it is serious. It's not a case of "Why isn't there a straight pride march?" or anything like that. I've experienced it quite a bit and some of the guys on here have too. Don't get me wrong, I joke about these things and some do too and I do believe that sometimes, you should joke about these things but there are some cases that are just plain offensive, such as a woman telling me I'm going to be a cheat because all men are like that and stuff. So men being told not to be scared and to protect themselves mean that they automatically won't be scared of being raped or something? There are men who get raped by both men and women and whether they're told to protect themselves and not be scared is irrelevant because it's different being in that situation whether you're a man or a woman. Women are told to protect themselves by using pepper spray or taking up self-defence classes too but when faced at the situation, it's different. I strongly disagree with the last part you said too. In some cases, it's not in a minor way though. There are some cases of sexism towards men, as me and Iun have pointed out. There has been sexism in my previous workplaces. The majority of the workers were females and a handful were sexist but nothing is said about them. I mean, I've seen some of the things that women have said on that website and some of it is also minor and I don't deny that it's not sexist for a second, but it's not fair of you to say that most of the men's cases of sexism are minor too. Really guys? You're all getting worked up about this, because a website about sexism is aimed at women? If you really feel you need to vent your frustration about the sexism you experience, post it on there or make your own site... but moaning about it is not really gonna do anything. As for sexism, I have had my fair share. When I lived in Brussels, I walked around with huge ass scissors in my pocket as protection because I didn't feel safe. I got the usual, people calling out to me, whistling, coming up to me etc. I had a foreign man on a train basically say he wanted to marry me and take me to Africa with him. He actually took my train ticket from me so I couldn't walk away from him. Fucking bastard also gave me a kiss (on the cheek but still). Even here I still have to deal with stuff like this. The amount of times I've been honked or "whooped" at by simply standing on the side of the road waiting for Jim to pick me up, it's amazing. As I said before, I'm not sure if I'm the only one but I have actually given cases where I've experienced sexism and have said on the site that I think it should be opened to both to properly fight sexism and not close it off to only one gender. I agree that if they want to make a difference to actually comment, which is why I did! That foreign man on the train isn't right! I'd have reported him! How creepy! It's good that you got out of there safely though! I actually had someone at work who was approached by a man and he asked her about how much she earns and whether she wanted to marry him and move to Pakistan with him and cook and clean for him. I went over and pretended I was her boyfriend, put my arm around her and asked if everything was okay and he backed off. I told her to report it to security but she wouldn't. I just hope it doesn't happen to another girl.
MoogleViper Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 It's stuff like this that make "people don't take my opinion on shoes seriously" seem so pathetic, no offence. So you think that people automatically assuming you would be rubbish at your job, and every day having to prove that you are good at your job, yet being told that you must be weird for that very reason, is pathetic? Way to reinforce the very view that people have been saying is wrong, which you've argued against. Come on @Animal, stop being pathetic and man the fuck up.
Sheikah Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Unfortunately I can only thank your post once Animal. Hamish your view on there not really being male sexism is backwards, and exactly the point people have been making in terms of men having to take such comments 'like a man'.
Eenuh Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I'm not saying sexism against men doesn't happen by the way. I just think being all offended by that website and throwing a fit about it isn't really going to help anyone. If you experience sexism, post it on the website. Or create your own website aimed at men or at all genders. I don't think the makers of the website meant to offend or purposefully exclude anyone. It's just that generally, women will have to deal with sexism on a regular basis, sometimes on a more serious level than whether you're adequate enough for your job or not. I mean even I deal with that, people asking if they can speak to a man because they don't trust that I as a woman can give them proper technical support. So yeah, the website is just there to vent some frustrations, because constant sexism can start wearing you down. And it is that sort of stuff that can lead to women saying things like "All men are pigs." etc.
Iun Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 If you don't mind my asking, when you say unresolved issues, do you mean emotionally or physically or anything? Emotionally. "I am the only person who will ever truly love you." "No-one in your life will love you as much as I do" "You can never, ever know love like the love I have for you. Forget other people, they are just liars." Had that drummed in for about 14 years. A bit of an emotional cripple as a result.
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