Emasher Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Because it's not just philosophy. It usually starts off with reading a religious story or text, and then looking at what the text is trying to tell us. Then, it's about how we can apply that into our own lives in a positive way, with or without accepting what the text was initially talking about (accepting that the story happened or not is not important, neither is if the people in the class believe in God or not). There's a lot of stories in the Bible, for example, about resisting temptation. That's a very easy thing to discuss with children, and certainly worthwhile. Plus, you can then talk about different kinds of temptation, whether it is all good, bad, or grey areas. Perhaps not just philosophy in that case, but it seems rather odd to use only religious texts to discuss such things. You could get the same meaning out of Fables, fairy tales, or even reading something like Harry Potter, which many would consider a much better, and more culturally relevant text about how to live as a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Perhaps not just philosophy in that case, but it seems rather odd to use only religious texts to discuss such things. You could get the same meaning out of Fables, fairy tales, or even reading something like Harry Potter, which many would consider a much better, and more culturally relevant text about how to live as a good person. You can get meaning out of anything. It's Religious Education, so the majority of the time you will be looking at texts, or readings, or discussions which have some form of Religious relevance. I also didn't say you would just use religious texts to discuss these things. You'll discuss these sorts of things in other subjects as well, like (as you say) philosophy, PSHE, Citizenship and so on. RE will teach you these things from a Religious angle or beginning point, but (like many other things), it will branch off occasionally into other areas. I think it is a good thing that RE isn't strictly just about reading stories from The Bible and that being that. It's nice to do that, but what is important is trying to find the meaning because these "stories" and what the message implied is. That's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Another time was about euthanasia. Don't remind me, I recall we had a lesson about that which involved watching a video of some seriously ill people. Afterwards a rumour got spread round the playground, apparently I'd made a joke about killing them with a grenade. I came back from lunch break and everyone was like "you're sick", I had no clue what was going on. Obviously wasn't true, strange what kids will say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Don't remind me, I recall we had a lesson about that which involved watching a video of some seriously ill people. Afterwards a rumour got spread round the playground, apparently I'd made a joke about killing them with a grenade. I came back from lunch break and everyone was like "you're sick", I had no clue what was going on. Obviously wasn't true, strange what kids will say. People are stupid. I had to chuckle reading that, though. Too much Goldeneye, back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Watch that video that was posted earlier in the thread... Ah yes. Exactly as i thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Reading some of the stuff in this thread, it sounds like the UK is more backwards regarding this issue than even the US.[/url] I couldn't disagree more. In state-funded public schools in the US no religious education or study is given, and as a consequence, most people know nothing out of religions beyond their own. In the UK, state schools teach RE/RS, which is (in theory, at least) taught from a secular perspective - you're taught what religions believe, not that they're true. This leads to people generally knowing at least a tiny bit about most religions (sadly, only in the same way everyone knows a little bit about, say, chemistry - generally not much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I went to a Church of England primary school, just because it was the best local school (which it was - I'm glad I went there). We said prayers and sang hymns in assembly, which I was told not to take too seriously. It's down to the parents to keep their children level-headed. To this day, I still think of hymns like "Cross Over the Road" and stories like "The Good Samaritan". I'm really fond of Christianity as the main religion of the UK, but I suppose that's another matter. My classmates are now all grown up and they are by far the nicest people I ever knew, with really good values. The secondary school I went to was a Comprehensive. They didn't teach you to be religious at all, but as others have said, Religious Education is taught. This is an objective, dispassionate look at various religions (or at least it's meant to be). EDIT - Oh, and about the Evolution thing. Like others have said, it hasn't traditionally been an issue in the UK, as obviously schools are meant to teach you facts. My C of E school would certainly not have told me that Evolution was false! Unfortunately, it seems to be becoming something of an issue now, with students walking out of lectures. But as far as I'm concerned, it's not an issue at all - if they don't want to learn, they must fail. Edited December 20, 2011 by Grazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The primary school I'm currently teaching in is Church of England - we say a prayer three times a day (when I remember...) and go to church on Thursday for half an hour. RE lessons are also slightly more skewed in favour of Christianity when compared to my last school, which wasn't CofE. Half of the RE units I teach each year are Christian based, while the others are Hinduism. Other year groups do a different religion as their 'second' religion - Year 3 and 4 do Islam, for example. In neither this school nor my last one was it our jobs to 'convert' children in any way, though - if they don't want to believe it they're free not to, although one of the admissions criteria at my current school is that parents must visit a place of worship (be that church, synagogue, mandir etc) at least once a fortnight. I would say that on the whole, the children at my current school are more religious, but certainly not all of them. I remember being surprised in my first year teaching there, for example, that despite all the prayers, Bible stories etc that they were hearing, only around a third of the class said they believed the resurrection of Christ really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edza Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm from Ireland and religion always used to be "just catholic" here. I went to a primary school where everyone did their communion and religion class was presented as facts. I went to a convent for secondary school and while the majority of teachers were not nuns, it was run by a religious order of some kind. That's the main problem here. Something like 92% of schools in this country are still run by religious orders (both primary and secondary) and the reason for this goes back to the establishment of the state in the 1920s. The vatican had a serious hold on the powers that be here and "instructed" catholicism to be inserted into the constitution. Such was the hold on the country, that priests and bishops had seniority over the police (GardaÃ) and even politicians. It was for this reason that they got away with so much and why the 8% of the clergy in Ireland fiddled children and were just moved to another parish to rape and molest other children. Hardly any of this was ever reported to the police and when it was, the victims were made out to be scum who were just attacking the holy church. Some were made to sign documents to ensure they never spoke about the abuses they encountered and this was facilitated by the bishops on orders from the vatican. Even up to 2008, the vatican was instructing bishops and clergy to not report anything to the police in case it may damage the church, citing "canon" law as being superior to our states own. Things are changing though. With the several reports on the abuses being published in the last few years, the true horror of what happened has come to light. There are many more to come and the vatican is doing all it can to make sure there are no further ones into a lot of other parishes but they can't stop that now. Our education minister is openly atheist and has stated that his main aim is to wrestle control of our schools back from the religious orders. Our Taoiseach (Prime Minister) was the first world leader to attack the vatican in a stirring speech in July in which he highlighted the 'dysfunction, disconnection, elitism and narcissism that dominate the culture of the vatican to this day.' He pointed out the culture of covering up the abuses and treatment of victims that sickened even him, a devout practising catholic. From the last census, people of "no religion" are now the second most populous type in Ireland (to be confirmed in March 2012) compared to the catholic number. This is going to vastly change when mostly old people who identified themselves as catholic die out over the next few years. My own view would be that all religions should be taught in schools to enable an understanding of other cultures. It would also make kids think when they see how much religions have in common and where they originated. Mithras, for example, being a Persian god in 600 BCE who was known by his 12 apostles as the son of god, born on December 25th, died and was resurrected three days later...guess who stole that idea 600 years later...or rather 900 years later when the Roman Emperor Constantine put the christian bible together from all the different stories and legends. Religion does fascinate me but for different reasons than those that have "faith". I'm more interested in the neurological and sociological reasons why cavemen or bronze age shepherds thought there were other worldly influences on their lives. Our brains are hard wired to pattern match and when we don't know how or why something happens, what I call the Polyfilla Effect comes into play. "I don't know how this works so therefore, god did it - that fills the gaps". I'll leave you with a quote from the pope himself when he was a cardinal; a perfect example of what religion is really about. “The Christian believer is a simple person: Bishops should protect the faith of their little people against the power of intellectuals” - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokong Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Great post there Edza, there's really not much I can add on to that being from Ireland also From the last census, people of "no religion" are now the second most populous type in Ireland (to be confirmed in March 2012) compared to the catholic number. I'm one of those I was however very close to putting down "Cylon" Maybe next census This is going to vastly change when mostly old people who identified themselves as catholic die out over the next few years. Harsh...but true I do have some interest in religion dispite hating the Church...although I do go every Sunday, it's mainly as a driver for the Wife and my mother.... they make me go inside instead of letting me stay in the car.... I tried to fight it but now I just go in to avoid arguments and just daydream for 30 mins. I don't do any of the standing, knelling, sign of the cross, or get the bread... this annoys them (wife and mother) but doesn't lead to any fights/arguments afterwards : peace: I do enjoy watching documentries on the likes of the Discovery Channel that investigate the possible and most likely truths behind stories in the bible and other religius books or other faiths. Especially like ones that point out inconsistancies in the bible Like how when Pilot gave the Jews a choice of freeing Jesus or some other guy as part of some pass over tradition of letting a prisioner go free....yet there is no historical evidence that any such "tradition" ever exsisted. As I said there's not much more I can add to what Ezda said about religon (Chatholism) influence in Ireland... but I do know a little on how it is in the Philippines as I have family from there. Basically from what I've seen when there on holidays the Philippines and the Church is basically what Ireland and the Church was like back in the 50's. Dispite the Philippine consitution requiring that there be a division between State and Church so that the Church cannot influence politics... the Church is ALWAYS sticking its nose into State matters. Public Schools there are run under some or all suppervision of the church, and anything the church doesn't want taught isn't... not sure how this effect science subjects (evolution) but I do know that they don't get any proper kind of Sexual Education over there. I had followed the progress of a Bill some sentors over there had been trying to get passed but the Church has been trying to block it... this has been going on for years now and I had actually stopped checking updates on it and don't know where it is now though I suspect it's not passed yet. the bill is called the Reproductive Health Bill and is meant to introduce things to help improve reproductive help, help expectant mothers more, help mothers who may have had complications more and help curb the overpopulation and poverty problems that country is facing by providing the poor more in things like easier access to contraceptions (like providing free condoms/pills in health centres to the poorest people who tend to have lots of kids as the only contraception they know of and can afford is the "Rythm Method" as it's the only one the Church talks about) WIth schools the bill would make proper Sex Ed complusory and teens would be learn properly about what sex is and how to protect yourself from pregnacy and STI's (over there most teens think if you "pull out" before climax she's 100% not going to get pregnant.... yet there's a lot of teen parents out there that the church refuses to acknowledge as being a fact. The church there also seems to think that they don't have a problem with overpopluation and poverty and that by having a larger family is a good thing as it means more Filipinos can go abroad for work....to send money home. Ignoring the fact that this is a sign of overpopulation, a bad enconomy as there's not enough domestic jobs for the population and leads to/causes more poverty in poorer areas. The Church also seems to think that by legalising articfical contraceptives (some local governments have actually banned condoms for sale) it will eventually lead to leagalising Abortion and think that the Philippines is the only country in the world that bans abortion in their constitution... last I checked it's still in ours (Irelands) also And yet despite abortion being illegal there many poor expectant mothers who might have a number of kids already and/or believe they just can't financially support more children do seek out and get abortions, preformed in non-medically sound conditions, or by taking a cocktail of god knows what "vitimins" ... and if they have problems and need medical help, doctors and nurses can and will refuse medical attention if they find out the woman had an abortion performed and basically leave her to die. If that new Bill was passed while abortions would remian illegal if that situation happened medical staff would be required by law to provide medical attention. I suspect that the Churches concern over there is that there is probably a lot of hidden child abuses going on over there similar to Ireland years ago and because of both the Churches authurity there and the lack of proper education in schools the kids probably don't fully understand the situation and the church is worried if they were properly educated then all the scandal will soon come out. Here's a funny story, I got married over there and we had a church wedding (I lied and said I was a practising chatholic ) and we had to do several seminars with people from the church before hand, one was on Sex Ed and Family planning... what I found funny was the nun starts by saying "Sex is a sacred act and should NOT be done for Pleasure" then later starts describing the womans monthly cycle and the "Rythm Method" so that you can try work out when is best to have sex without getting pregnant...... If I'm having sex and trying to not get her pregnant what other reason am I having sex for than for Pleasure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I was however very close to putting down "Cylon" Maybe next census Oh my Gods! You disgusting monotheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I had prayer and hymns whilst in Primary school, and did R.E whilst in the SAT area of the comprehensive. R.E was compulsory and had to be chosen on the options we had for GCSE. Where-as, i didn't put it down along with a few others and did something else instead. The R.E teacher was one of them funny ones, she gave detention and put a few kids on report who said they were athiest. 1 kid got kicked out of school after throwing a board eraser at her whilst shouting "where's your god to protect you now?" I don't think religion is bad, i don't like to be forced to study something that i don't particulary want to study. I'm not an athiest, was born a Christian and i'll die one. Had to attend church when i was a kid, but stopped going once i was 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieColeslaw Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 With the several reports on the abuses being published in the last few years, the true horror of what happened has come to light. There are many more to come and the vatican is doing all it can to make sure there are no further ones into a lot of other parishes but they can't stop that now. Is that what the vatican is really doing? Or just saying it to placate angry people? I mean, the priests who were involved in the child abuse cases weren't even arrested or anything, as far as I know. How come they get to answer to the church law instead of normal human being law? Very well-written and informative post though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This thread got me thinking about the role religion plays in Denmark. I'll see if I can sum it up ... Denmark is a Protestant country, and this is highly visible in our culture. However, we're in no way a very religious people in the commonly understood sense; religion is only taught objectively in schools, logically enough starting with Christianity and moving on to the other Abrahamic religions and later Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. Funnily enough, in primary school the subject is known as "Christianity" despite also teaching about the other religions. This is due to the fact that Protestantism still has a rather large presence in our culture despite most Danes being either non-practising or even atheist. We have a nickname for the typical Dane, "culture Christian", which reflects how non-practising Christians and even atheists are still very Christian in their cultural views and upbringing. The Danish song culture includes lots of hymns, most Danes have been to church a couple of times in their lives (even if only unwillingly as children), we celebrate Christmas* and other Christian holidays, etc. etc. I'd personally classify Denmark as an overall atheist country, especially since more and more people are actively distancing themselves from the religion. By the next generation I believe atheism will be the dominant "belief" in Denmark. *Fun fact: In Denmark and the other Scandinavian countries, we still call Christmas by the name of the Norse holiday that it replaced: jul/Yule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 R.E gcse (short course) was compulsory when i took it. We studied general bible stuff, and touched very little on protestant vs catholic for the purpose of the "morals" side of the exam. (ie differences in belief with regards divorce and contraception) and that was it. Good job there were no minority children in my day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edza Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Is that what the vatican is really doing? Or just saying it to placate angry people? I mean, the priests who were involved in the child abuse cases weren't even arrested or anything, as far as I know. How come they get to answer to the church law instead of normal human being law? Very well-written and informative post though Some of them were put behind bars alright; the most famous being this lovely character... The Irish bishops are actively campaigning to make sure that the reports that are out right now are the only ones that will appear even though there are calls for investigations into every parish by many notable commentators here. The "little people" don't matter at all to the vatican hierarchy and never have. All that is important to them is the indoctrination of Africa and non-developed nations across the world as it's easy to believe a beardy guy in the sky is going to treat you to eternal happiness if your current life is full of hopelessness. There's a time and a place for "magic, unicorns and the supernatural" and that's in videogames, not in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokong Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) There's a time and a place for "magic, unicorns and the supernatural" and that's in videogames, not in real life. If you don't stick that quote in your sig I will EDIT: I'm also taking it for my twitter, mwahahahahahaha Edited December 22, 2011 by Mokong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edza Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 If you don't stick that quote in your sig I will EDIT: I'm also taking it for my twitter, mwahahahahahaha If I could thank that post, I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 There's a time and a place for "magic, unicorns and the supernatural" and that's in videogames, not in real life. Too right it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 If I could thank that post, I would I'll thank it on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokong Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 damn you Moogle I only just got out of Robot Unicorn addiction rehab *goes play* *sings* ALLLWAAAYYYSS I WANNA BE WITH ...Damn you Moogle [everyone ignore me and get back on topic *evil eye*] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanee Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 We had RE in primary and high school. Hated it. Happy as fuck when GSCE years came around so I could dump those lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts