[Spoiler-Free] Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Beverage]

@Retro_Link

 

You will continue to be a Nintendo gamer and you will date a hot chick and become successful in your career and continue to love all of your close one (your best mates friend slept with your ex though )

 

You either choose one or the other, there's no going back. It doesn't really matter though, the outcomes are different but it doesn't impact anything.

 

Such a child. It exposes what you, the player, is like as a genuine person.

 

@Jonnas is that what you said too, but in high-level english?

 

The reward is the same for both options. Plot-wise, both outcomes are a bit different (only a bit. And it's ultimately inconsequential outside of the characters involved)

Edited May 25, 2012 by Beverage

[Retro_Link]

Just reading the first sentences of your post, have you just giving me massive spoilers?

...........??

 

Did you read which part of the game I'm up to?

[Beverage]

Nah seriously I'm sorry! My punishment is that I am not aloud to comment in this thread again at least until you 100% this game.

 

Honestly though, my experience is a blur on that game and that's never usually the case with Zelda games. If you want then you can give me a spoiler on Naruto Shippuden (not a huge one, C'mon ididn't give a huge spoiler did I?)

[Jonnas]

I find it amusing that I apparently used high level English even though it's not my first language It was roughly the same thing, yes, I was just slightly more specific

 

I do hope the spoiler you blurted out wasn't that massive...

[Retro_Link]

Yay

 

Clawshot get!

Enjoying bouncing around Lanayru Desert!

 

Those 'Trials' are a bit terrifying at times!! :p

 

Entered the caves, met the Goron... and just arrived at the Sand Sea.

 

An Ocean!!!

 

And a harbour and a boat! Cool! #WindWaker!

Gonna take a bit of a break, but gonna enjoy this I think!

 

Loving all these watery landscape (especially on a hot day like today).

The settings in this game really are glorious, feels very epic!

 

[Ronnie]

It's flattering when my posts are repeated and improved upon

 

Great article here about the direction Zelda has gone since the early games:

 

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2012/05/what-the-legend-of-zelda-has-to-learn-from-journey/

[Hero-of-Time]

For those still wanting this it's now £15 at Argos.

[Beverage]

"For those still ruddy wanting this"? It may've failed to reach the expectations of some but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a blimmin' Zelda game!!!!!!!!!!

[Wii]

Yes, it's a Zelda game. It's just not a very good one. In fact, it's the worst Zelda I've ever played.

 

Some aspects were good but overall it left a bitter taste. £15, why is that? You don't see Mario Galaxy 1/2, NSMB or DK:CR ever reduced in price.

[Beverage]

NO, no , no @Wii I meant that how can their still be people who haven't played it? What the hey were they doing sitting on the fence in the first place?? IT'S ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nah but your point still stands nonetheless. : peace:

[S.C.G]

Despite it being not the 'greatest' Zelda game I still found it to be ones of the best games of last year, it had me hooked from start to finish which is more than I can say for other 'AAA' titles that failed to inspire me to play more than a few hours in.

[Grazza]

Excellent article posted by @Ronnie. I agreed with every word.

[Captain Falcon]

I've always been a fan of the exploration based gameplay and for me, the journey is normally always more entertaining than the destination since once I arrive, I'd like to go wandering again. That's why I find games like Oblivion and Skyrim so fascinating and I'm sure I'd get a kick out of Journey if I owned a PS3. I like seeing things in the distance and wondering what they are and how to get to them... and then stumble across a myriad of things along the way.

 

That’s worked well for the series thus far, but it often leads to the dungeons feeling like a long series of puzzles rather than a sacred place of worship or the hollowed inside of a giant tree — like the actual area they are supposed to be.

 

I did take issue with this line though. The author goes on to use the Water Temple as an example of good design but that Temple is just as guilty as others for being nothing like a place of worship. If they want Temples to be more natural, they will probably need to take a leaf out of the western RPG design book. Unfortunately, the "puzzles" in them tend to be far more basic but you never really doubt their existance in the world. One thing I've never understood about the Zelda temples are whether they are designed to keep someone out, or keep something in - who is the real intruder, Link or the boss?

 

As I was reading the article, I couldn't help but think of the Metroid Prime games because they do what the author was complaining was lacking in Zelda. Whilst they did get progressively linear, they still gave the player more to explore straight off the bat than the Zelda games have been... or at least the 3D games - the 2D Zelda's retain a lot of the openness from the beginning of the series. One thing the Metroid always did better than Zelda was in terms of directing a player through that open world. They have areas where just the environment is hazardous to be there and the enemies are far tougher. You can go and explore if you want, but the game is hinting you probably aren't ready unless you really know what you're doing. The story telling was done mostly by scan logs or by the wreckage you were exploring. Exploration is rewarded with upgrades that aren't always necessary for completion but make it a bit easier.

 

I would welcome a change back to a more open world less reliant on story telling because frankly, the Zelda stories aren't particularly special and despite now featuring hours and hours of cutscenes, the story is often explanable in a couple of lines at most. It would certainly make replaying the games more fun and might even help to intergrate some more "new game plus" concepts since they don't have to worry about fighting a rigid game structure. One way to aid that would be to remove the focus of dungoen items in puzzles... or at least, items in dungeons other than the one it was found in. Zelda 1, and, to a lesser extent, 3 (once you've completed the Dark Palace) do that and it helps you to be able explore the land freely, come across a dungeon by accident and then go in and complete it their and then. Stopping a player part way through a dungeon because they need the item from another which can't be got without the item from a different one without anything to signpost them on where to go would become frightfully annoying very quickly.

[Retro_Link]

OK so today I explored the Sand Ocean.

 

Enjoyed this area!

What I've liked in Skyward Sword is that the desert area hasn't really been a desert area as such.

 

And it was great to be climbing aboard a massive ship in the middle of the sand/sea... made for a cool setting I thought.

 

Rollercoaster mine carts were pretty cool!

 

I thought they missed a bit of a trick on board the ship, in that there wasn't any Pirates of the Carribean esque sword fighting against Moblins on the mast! It could have been a 'balance sword-fight', with you both carefully walking along a beam and meeting in the middle ala...

 

 

 

Or this could have also made for a very cool Boss Fight!

Have the Pirate Captain return and you fight one another making your way up the mast, utilising ropes, climbing nets, zip-lines etc... sword fighting as the ship was torn apart by a squid and sinking into a whirlpool... yes it would have been a rip-off of Pirates of the Carribean: At Worlds End, but who cares! :p

 

OK so on to the actual Boss Fight...

 

 

 

to fight off a cool Wind Waker style Giant Octo from the ship!

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but that is the worst looking Zelda boss ever! :p

 

Edited May 29, 2012 by Retro_Link

[Ronnie]

We've had a couple of instances of open-ended progression in the modern Zelda games. OOT let you to do either the Shadow or Spirit dungeon first, and Wind Waker let you do Wind or Earth in either order. The latter especially worked well I thought, especially since it was also a game that opened up the entire world map from the very start.

[Serebii]

OK so today I explored the Sand Ocean.

 

Enjoyed this area!

What I've liked in Skyward Sword is that the desert area hasn't really been a desert area as such.

 

And it was great to be climbing aboard a massive ship in the middle of the sand/sea... made for a cool setting I thought.

 

Rollercoaster mine carts were pretty cool!

 

I thought they missed a bit of a trick on board the ship, in that there wasn't any Pirates of the Carribean esque sword fighting against Moblins on the mast! It could have been a 'balance sword-fight', with you both carefully walking along a beam and meeting in the middle ala...

 

 

 

Or this could have also made for a very cool Boss Fight!

Have the Pirate Captain return and you fight one another making your way up the mast, utilising ropes, climbing nets, zip-lines etc... sword fighting as the ship was torn apart by a squid and sinking into a whirlpool... yes it would have been a rip-off of Pirates of the Carribean: At Worlds End, but who cares! :p

 

OK so on to the actual Boss Fight...

 

 

 

to fight off a cool Wind Waker style Giant Octo from the ship!

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but that is the worst looking Zelda boss ever! :p

Other than its Monsters Inc look, the concept was awesome

Edited May 29, 2012 by Serebii

[Grazza]

I did take issue with this line though. The author goes on to use the Water Temple as an example of good design but that Temple is just as guilty as others for being nothing like a place of worship. If they want Temples to be more natural, they will probably need to take a leaf out of the western RPG design book. Unfortunately, the "puzzles" in them tend to be far more basic but you never really doubt their existance in the world.

 

It's a dilemma. Arguably the charm of the dungeons in the 2D games is that they don't look organic at all. They are a series of linked squares, with doors and walls on the top, bottom, left and right. I've always thought this formal nature was a huge strength.

 

As for the 3D games, I lean towards saying they should fit into the overworld, such as the Forsaken Fortress or Dragon Roost in Wind Waker. The Forbidden Forest is a mixture of the two approaches, as it fits into the overworld well, but feels very artificial once inside (technical limitations, probably). Generally, I'm in favour of buildings really feeling like what they're meant to be - I'd particularly like to see some good castles - but once you take out things like locked doors it's gone too far.

 

As I was reading the article, I couldn't help but think of the Metroid Prime games because they do what the author was complaining was lacking in Zelda.

 

Quite. Whilst I'm in favour of subtley, I do think what's described sounds very like Metroid or Shadow of the Colossus. Zelda does need stronger tone, atmosphere and exploring, but I think it's worth remembering that some of the best entries in the series - Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker - do have quite straightforward storytelling. As such, I believe Zelda does not need to go back NES levels to be at its best.

 

One way to aid that would be to remove the focus of dungoen items in puzzles... or at least, items in dungeons other than the one it was found in. Zelda 1, and, to a lesser extent, 3 (once you've completed the Dark Palace) do that and it helps you to be able explore the land freely, come across a dungeon by accident and then go in and complete it their and then. Stopping a player part way through a dungeon because they need the item from another which can't be got without the item from a different one without anything to signpost them on where to go would become frightfully annoying very quickly.

 

I've been thinking about that. Maybe Link should only possess the items that it's somewhat feasible to carry - sword, shield, bow (with fire, ice and light arrows), hookshot, boomerang and gauntlets.

 

The two-handed weapons - Darknight swords, ball & chains, hammers, axes - could be picked up from enemies in dungeons. Say there's a wall to be knocked down... you just find the nearest Darknut, steal his sword, take it over to the weak wall and swing away at it.

 

I'd love to see a lot more of this in Zelda - temporary items - extending as far as ride-on boars, griffins, dragons etc. It would give it a more playful sense.

[Fused King]

I think it's time for NINTENDO to pull another 'Windwaker' on us and, on top of that, make us question what a Zelda game really is.

[Retro_Link]

Also, have to say I'm struggling with combat in Skyward Sword.

 

In all other Zelda games, I could tackle multiple enemies at a time with ease... take the 'cave quest' thing in Wind Waker which was layered and got progressively harder, until you were taking on 3 Darknuts at a time or something.

 

I don't know what it is, but in Skyward Sword I struggle to even fight 2 Lizalfos!

Had to fight 2 at a time a couple of times in the recent section, and the fuckers kicked my ass for a while... lost half my hearts... both jumping at me at the same time swinging their club tails!

 

I can't seem to move as fluidly around an opponent as all previous games, side jumping/backflipping/forward sword jumping etc... whilst keeping that enemy centrally positioned, and switching from target to target. And if I just try and focus on one, I get floored by the other.

 

And again, horizontal sword swings suck in this game!... *I am fucking swinging horizontally!!*

 

#ElectricBattonMoblinsFTL

Edited May 29, 2012 by Retro_Link

[Jonnas]

Also, have to say I'm struggling with combat in Skyward Sword.

 

In all other Zelda games, I could tackle multiple enemies at a time with ease... take the 'cave quest' thing in Wind Waker which was layered and got progressively harder, until you were taking on 3 Darknuts at a time or something.

 

I don't know what it is, but in Skyward Sword I struggle to even fight 2 Lizalfos!

Had to fight 2 at a time a couple of times in the recent section, and the fuckers kicked my ass for a while... lost half my hearts... both jumping at me at the same time swinging their club tails!

 

The enemies are quite challenging in this game, motion controls or not. SS is possibly the hardest 3D Zelda yet. Lizalfos are the best example, swinging randomly won't work like it did with a OoT Stalfos.

 

Wind Waker was always the easiest one, though, anything looks hard when compared to it

 

I can't seem to move as fluidly around an opponent as all previous games, side jumping/backflipping/forward sword jumping etc... whilst keeping that enemy centrally positioned, and switching from target to target. And if I just try and focus on one, I get floored by the other.

 

This part is still exactly like it was in previous games, though.

 

Have you gotten better with the shield? It's more effective than dodging, most of the time.

 

And again, horizontal sword swings suck in this game!... *I am fucking swinging horizontally!!*

 

Spin Attack. That's the best way to pull them off reliably.

[Retro_Link]

Fighting two Lizalfo's I start the fight looking for a pattern/trying to approach it with strategy, but I sometimes it feels like the only way through and land any sort of initail attack is to end up swinging randomly, as often the two seem to cancel each other out!...

 

i.e. If you have one targeted, or you're blocking one with you shield, the other bastard just knocks you out! *Enter-waggle-rage-mode!*

 

Also spin attacks deplenish your stamina in two swings though, which can be dangerous in a group of say the electric baton guys...

 

They can be bloody annoying, because you see the horizontal attack being open, so you go for it... it doesn't recognise it as being fully horizontal, so you get electricuted... you try it again, and they've switched position and get electricuted again!

 

---

 

Anyway, I know it may sound like I'm moaning, but I really am enjoying the game... it's just I feel like I should be capable of playing/approaching battles better, and the motion controls are somewhat holding me back from this/making me resort to waggle (which is unsatifying) but anyway. Just have to deal with it/hope to improve.

[Jonnas]

Also spin attacks deplenish your stamina in two swings though, which can be dangerous in a group of say the electric baton guys...

 

They can be bloody annoying, because you see the horizontal attack being open, so you go for it... it doesn't recognise it as being fully horizontal, so you get electricuted... you try it again, and they've switched position and get electricuted again!

 

Oh, the spin attack generally works when left or right aren't important (and even then, it can sometimes work), but definitely not against the electric baton guys (How I missed them from your post I don't know).

The only reliable strategy that works against them is using the shield bash, since they defend themselves like any Bokoblin (that is, they change stances quickly, which is tricky), but you can't keep the pressure on them.

[Hero-of-Time]

Now it may sound like I'm moaning, but I really am enjoying the game... it's just I feel like I should be capable of playing/approaching battles better, and the motion controls are somewhat holding me back from this/making me resort to waggle (which is unsatifying) but anyway. Just have to deal with it/hope to improve.

 

A lot of the enemies have weak spots and tactics but honestly I just waggled my way through most of the game.

 

The enemies are quite challenging in this game, motion controls or not. SS is possibly the hardest 3D Zelda yet. Lizalfos are the best example, swinging randomly won't work like it did with a OoT Stalfos.

 

I beg to differ.

 

Also if its hard its not because the enemies are difficult, its that the controls aren't precise enough. I found when trying to play it properly I got a tanning most of the time but once I decided to just waggle my way past enemies things were a lot easier.

 

Jimmy Fallon proved this last year after E3. Skip to 2:10. I love it how Reggie tries to tells him how to play and he just throws his suggestion out the window.

 

[Grazza]

I think it's time for NINTENDO to pull another 'Windwaker' on us and, on top of that, make us question what a Zelda game really is.

 

If they can, great.

 

I don't know what it is, but in Skyward Sword I struggle to even fight 2 Lizalfos!

Had to fight 2 at a time a couple of times in the recent section, and the fuckers kicked my ass for a while... lost half my hearts... both jumping at me at the same time swinging their club tails!

 

It's hard isn't it? The Lizalfos and the harder Bokoblins were also my least favourite enemies. You might not get better at it either - I too just waggled my way through! It's funny, "waggle" was a dirty word for a few years, but it's probably the best way to have motion controls - if you're going to have them at all.

 

I was playing Twilight Princess on GameCube the other day. One of those flying monsters swooped down upon me whilst I was atop Epona. Normal sword swings didn't work, so just I pushed the analogue stick upwards at the same time as my sword attack - Bash! I cut down the monster. Simple, elegant, responsive.

[Retro_Link]

Oh good, it isn't just me then! :p

 

Thankfully I've just done the third/Din's trial... man those are tense!

 

And just done the protect/water carrying task.

 

About to enter the Fire Temple now... I bloomin' knew it!

... I've already done a fire temple dammit! I think they're my least favourite temples across all Zelda games. Brown/Red colour scheme, and damn fire.

 

But who knows, it could be fun I hope.

 

Oh yeah and Link's new red earings! :p

 

What's the claw-shot target for outside the original fire temple/temple on the cliff?

 

There's an orb on a post up there, is that anything?... there's not one on the other side so I thought maybe it was more than decoration?

 

If it's possible to answer without spoilers please.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2012 by Retro_Link