So, Nintendo have pretty much confirmed the Wii is dead.

[Fused King]

Look, we all knew from the start that this thread was going to revolve around the DEFINITION of a 'dead Wii'.

 

Hence most people not speaking the same language during discussion:laughing:

[Kav]

Burny, Black Ops Wii doesn't have any dedicated servers. Like the other console versions, one player hosts the game and it runs off the Wii's online infrastructure, which does enable a decent service.

 

The developer needs to incorporate the system/net code to match what the online service allows just like they do with the 360/PS3 when they create games. They needn't spend loads of money running dedicated servers and the like, they just need look at their template for how it works on the 360/PS3 and amend to compensate the differences for it to work on Wii... which aren't all that huge.

 

All the other developers could've done the same as Treyarch did and nobody would be complaining.

I remember Treyarch had some roundtable with some site prior to Black Ops release (I'll try an find the link, I know it's on YouTube as that's where I watched it) where the Wii version was discussed and they said that it'd almost be matching the other console versions and that it was easy to make it so.

It really is a wonder why other developers hadn't bothered just doing the same.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Kav

[Ville]

You can blame the devs, but the ultimate resposibility falls at Nintendo's door. They didn't provide a proper framework/platform from which developers could incorporate into their games.

 

Microsoft have made Xbox Live integration that simple and effective devs don't need to waste money and time thinking of a great way to put it into their software.

 

Yeah, good point... :/ I mean Nintendo's own games reflect this very well, the online is usually so basic that you start to wonder what decade they are living on! Like wtf...

[flameboy]

Some of these comments confuse me. People are saying the Wii isn't dead because they have a ton of games they haven't finished yet. I have a ton on the N64 I never finished, does that mean that is alive?

 

The way I define a console being dead is to look at the upcoming release schedule. And oh boy, it's dire to say the least. Now that Project Cafe is official, it's only gonna get worse.

 

To be fair the Wii isn't dead, but it sure is in a coma.

 

I was gonna say the same thing but with my Dreamcast (which to be fair is still getting "new" releases so technically not dead at all!) I guess people are arguing its not dead to them.

 

Also another thing coming out of this thread is people play games way more than me...some of these hours spend are way above what I've spent on games full stop in the last year/year and a half

[Burny]

Burny, Black Ops Wii doesn't have any dedicated servers. Like the other console versions, one player hosts the game and it runs off the Wii's online infrastructure, which does enable a decent service.

 

If it's a game without dedicated servers, in a multiplayer session one Wii will act as the game server while the others act as hosts. "All" you need for such a system to work, is hardware to run the software, a network interface which can be used by the software in order to send data to specified IP-addresses, the game server/client-code within the game and the IP-address of each participant. Every PC, smartphone etc. has that.

 

If this was all the developers where able to use however, getting into a multiplayer game would work like this: Someone starts the server, phones his IP-address to all other players, they specify this IP as the server's IP by hand and join the game. Standard PC multiplayer (unfortunately not in Starcraft 2 :p). That is not how CoD:BO works on the Wii, is it?

 

 

Far as I know, in CoD:BO/Reflex on the Wii, you have a user name, that is different from your Wii's friend code (no game specific friend code either). You add people by their username. For that alone dedicated servers are required which handle the visibility, identity etc. of players as well as the joining of games (= sharing of the game-server's IP address) . After all, someone has to keep track of every player's IP address. This system differs drastically from what Nintendo's multiplayer games are using. Even worse: Goldeneye, which was released at the same time, uses exactly Nintendo's system and Monster Hunter uses a completely different implementation.

 

That's a pretty sure indication, that even basic functionality is handled by servers (hardware+software), which aren't provided by Nintendo, but by Activision.

 

 

On XBLive/PSN, by signing in, you communicate with servers from MS and Sony. These servers keep track of who's signed in, what they're doing etc.. This sounds basic, but it's massive and expensive functionality, if a dev has to built it from the ground up.

 

 

Even if every Wii multiplayer game would use a system similar to BO's one (because every dev was somehow able to provide it): The Wii's online design would still be shit. Having a game-independent and persistent friend-list on the OS level is a basic requirement for a painless online system. Nobody wants to add a dozen people by their obscure online ID's for every damn game. It's one of the biggest innovations XBLive has introduced to gaming, that these conveniences are offered by the console manufacturer.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Burny

[Kav]

Touché Burny! lol

I hadn't realised it took that much to sort the online, Treyarch had said it was all that much of a bother but that kinda sounds like it is. Haha

[Sheikah]

Were Nintendo hell scared about kids meeting strangers online? Friend codes with no method of tracking friends or inviting them to games was fail from the start.

[Fused King]

You know what's funny though.

 

The 'Friendcode strategy' had kids go on THE EVIL CHILD LURING INTERNET (where trolls and flamers and Rez types roam free) in search for STRANGERS' friendcodes:laughing:

 

I mean, one would most of the time end up with strangers when going online, ...so why call it 'Friendcodes'?

Did NINTENDO really want people to exchange their codes with their friends and then play with them online?

That sure wouldn't have worked for me, for I know no one in my vicinity who uses its Wii to play online.

 

You guys are my friends, .....my posting-naked-pictures-to-me-via-the-Wii-message-board Friends:)

Edited April 30, 2011 by Fused King

[darksnowman]

Fair play man.

 

What's on your Wii backlog BTW, is it as big as darksnowman's epic list?

 

There's stuff I haven't even added to backloggery.

[Fierce_LiNk]

To be fair the Wii isn't dead, but it sure is in a coma.

 

Shall we get the thread title amended, then?

 

It's totally fair for people to refer to their backlogs since this focuses on this generation. The Dreamcast isn't this generation, neither is the 64, but the Wii is.

 

Regardless, there is an absolute ton of quality games to play on the Wii. The generation isn't over until we adopt the next system as our main platform and we cease to buy new Wii games. And that isn't right now.

[Ville]

Shall we get the thread title amended, then?

 

It's totally fair for people to refer to their backlogs since this focuses on this generation. The Dreamcast isn't this generation, neither is the 64, but the Wii is.

 

Regardless, there is an absolute ton of quality games to play on the Wii. The generation isn't over until we adopt the next system as our main platform and we cease to buy new Wii games. And that isn't right now.

 

Well said. As long as there are interesting games on the system, I'll keep playing. And when the time comes that we actually shift over to the next gen, then we do just that. Like Jim said, it's not yet...

[gaggle64]

There's basically two factions. The one half who feel let down by the Wii, and are enjoying their other consoles. Or, the other half who are happy with the Wii and believe that it is still alive and kicking.

 

I'd agree with that and I think I have a foot in both camps. On the one hand there's no escaping that the sort of games I want to play are more so on my Xbox and my play time split between them demonstrates that. However I do still play my Wii, slowly chewing away on some of the few spare nights I have on the likes of Prime 3, Okami, Battalion Wars 2 and online Mario Kart as well as any number of trinkets from the VC.

 

If anything I don't think Nintendo went far enough in reaching out to a wider audience with the Wii. It's been hugely commercially successful and a major part of that has been it's software aimed and marketed at "non-gamers" - Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Just Dance and similar titles. The direct result is now obvious across all the major platforms with Kinect and Playstation Move now central to each platform's commercial drive.

 

What baffles is the rather disorganised manner this initial success has been further pursued by Nintendo with few decent "non-game" software titles and confuses me as to why they are now preping what sounds more like a more traditional games machine. Perhaps they see the likes of Kinect and feel Joe & Jane 8-6 will buy into a pricier, more complex product with the right titles but it still smacks of losing sight of the goal they set.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'd agree with that and I think I have a foot in both camps.

 

You can be in both. This ain't a war, soldier.

 

We think about this way too much. Its ok to buy other consoles. This isn't like the Soviets during WWII.

 

You buy consoles because there is enough on that system to interest you. There's not an awful lot on the other systems that I want to buy, so I don't buy that system. Same with owners of a 360/PS3 who don't have a Wii. Both systems have entirely different...stuff.

 

The Wii is strong with platformers, the 360 is strong with FPS. I don't really give a rat's arse about shooters anymore, so I can live without that. However, I care a great deal about platformers. So, I'm naturally gonna go to the Wii.

 

It's sad that we think of this as a personal war. It ain't. We're all lovers here. We're lovers. Not Fighters.

[gaggle64]

Don't worry, I mean "camps" in a Andrew Marr-Question Time-Parliamentary sort of manner.

[Aimless]

What baffles is the rather disorganised manner this initial success has been further pursued by Nintendo with few decent "non-game" software titles and confuses me as to why they are now preping what sounds more like a more traditional games machine. Perhaps they see the likes of Kinect and feel Joe & Jane 8-6 will buy into a pricier, more complex product with the right titles but it still smacks of losing sight of the goal they set.

It's quite simple: third-parties.

 

Nintendo have catered to their legacy audience very well with the Wii; yes they foray into the wider market with titles like Wii Fit, but those are additive with the company being more prolific then ever. The machine's problem has never been Nintendo's output, it's that they were pretty much the only one's propping things up, bar the odd — and occasionally inexplicable — third-party success.

 

Microsoft have more or less gutted their internal developers, the 360 is almost entirely reliant on third-parties. And they get away with it just fine because companies have really gotten into their stride; look at all the promising multi-format games coming out this year — Mass Effect 3, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Arkham City, etc — and it's easy to see why Nintendo want in on that environment, why they'd want that crossover with the 360 and PS3.

[The Lillster]

I think in the long run, there are going to be a lot of people who regret ignoring the Wii's game library.

 

It seems to me, that the main reason why people dislike the Wii amd consoles in general, is because it's trendy to do so. Also the fact that it's cheaper and weaker than the other consoles, people automatically don't care.

 

I guarantee that within five years, maybe more, maybe a bit less, everyone is going to be saying how awesome the Wii was. Including myself, probably.

[Ellmeister]

I think in the long run, there are going to be a lot of people who regret ignoring the Wii's game library.

 

It seems to me, that the main reason why people dislike the Wii amd consoles in general, is because it's trendy to do so. Also the fact that it's cheaper and weaker than the other consoles, people automatically don't care.

 

I guarantee that within five years, maybe more, maybe a bit less, everyone is going to be saying how awesome the Wii was. Including myself, probably.

 

After paying 180 for the console, I would be astonished if anyone did it for that reason mainly.

 

Also, people 'automatically not caring because it is cheaper and weaker' doesn't really make sense.

[The Lillster]

After paying 180 for the console, I would be astonished if anyone did it for that reason mainly.

 

Also, people 'automatically not caring because it is cheaper and weaker' doesn't really make sense.

 

I'm only going off personal experience and I'm not stating what I am saying as fact.

 

What I do know is, when I first got the Wii I enjoyed it. After about a year, I bought a PS3 and then I completely lost interest in the Wii. There are many more people (including on here), who felt the same way.

 

As for my 'trendy to do so' comment, that was a bit sensationalist of me, but it probably holds some truth.

[dazzybee]

I think in the long run, there are going to be a lot of people who regret ignoring the Wii's game library.

 

It seems to me, that the main reason why people dislike the Wii amd consoles in general, is because it's trendy to do so. Also the fact that it's cheaper and weaker than the other consoles, people automatically don't care.

 

I guarantee that within five years, maybe more, maybe a bit less, everyone is going to be saying how awesome the Wii was. Including myself, probably.

 

Completely agree, but this happened the previous two generations. Everyone slagged off the N64 at the time and said it doesn't have many games and the PS1 is loads better. The gamecube came out and everyone creamed over the N64. Then the gamecube wasn't up to scratch and couldn't compete with the PS2 and the new beast from microsoft; now people go on about the incredible controller and the great games while bashing the Wii. Very familar cycle with NIntendo consoles.

 

Personally, Wii caters for 90% if not more of my gaming needs. But online, FIFA, Multimedia and a few other great games (Batman, Portal, Uncharted, Braid for eg) just aren't anywhere to be seen!

[Pit-Jr]

As long as the VC and backwards compatibility make it into the new machine, i dont think anyone will be mourning the Wii's retirement.

 

Speaking of which, i wonder how Nintendo will handle the issue of transferring VC purchases over to the new machine? Or if they're even considering it?

[dazzybee]

As long as the VC and backwards compatibility make it into the new machine, i dont think anyone will be mourning the Wii's retirement.

 

Speaking of which, i wonder how Nintendo will handle the issue of transferring VC purchases over to the new machine? Or if they're even considering it?

 

If they can do it with the DSi/3DS I don't think that'll be a problem. Playing VC games on the controller would be fanatstic. It'll kill the 3DS a bit but will still be amazing!

[Sheikah]

It seems to me, that the main reason why people dislike the Wii amd consoles in general, is because it's trendy to do so. Also the fact that it's cheaper and weaker than the other consoles, people automatically don't care.

Whaaat...?

 

Who in their right mind would choose to shun a console because of that? People don't play the Wii because the quality of games tends to be lower, there's typically poor third party support, the machine is capable of far less and the online for most games is non-existant or poor.

 

It was hardly trendy to play an N64, but I did. In fact it's far 'trendier' to play a Wii, since it is a trend itself due to the large numbers who got one.

[Pit-Jr]

If they can do it with the DSi/3DS I don't think that'll be a problem. Playing VC games on the controller would be fanatstic. It'll kill the 3DS a bit but will still be amazing!

 

I have neither of those handhelds, so out of curiosity, how does it work between them?

[dazzybee]

I have neither of those handhelds, so out of curiosity, how does it work between them?

 

Well we don't know exactly because it's happening in the May update. But the option in the 3DS seems to be a data transfer from device to device. As in you literally swap over the content. But that's not 100% how it works, but it's 100% that you can.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'm only going off personal experience and I'm not stating what I am saying as fact.

 

What I do know is, when I first got the Wii I enjoyed it. After about a year, I bought a PS3 and then I completely lost interest in the Wii. There are many more people (including on here), who felt the same way.

 

As for my 'trendy to do so' comment, that was a bit sensationalist of me, but it probably holds some truth.

 

Out of curiosity, did you go back to the Wii?

 

It's a shame that many abandoned the system, especially when it was so young at the time. It's the equivalent of leaving a film in the cinema half an hour into it.

 

Also, it's a shame to hear stuff such as "the last game I played on it was Mario Galaxy" when there have been other greats since then or games which hardly received any recognition around that time. As many have already said, 2010 was a great year for the Wii, possibly one of the strongest years to date on a Nintendo console. But, ultimately, it's down to whatever interests you.