Aimless Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 These Mages/Thieves/Dark Brotherhood quests are waaaaay too short. Alright, you have the side thieves guild jobs, and helping out the College. But the main line each is about four quests. It's worth noting that once you do 5 thievery side jobs in each Hold you're offered a special mission for that area. Completing those improves the Guild's situation, although it can be a bit of a grind getting to those jobs in the first place; I started saving before taking on new tasks in case they were for areas I'd already done. Similarly there seems to be more to do for the Brotherhood once you've 'finished' its main quests, although I haven't explored that yet. I imagine it's also the case for the Mages Guild, but I haven't even started on that! One thing that does bother me about the various Guilds is the inevitability of becoming their masters. That might seem a strange complaint, but I find it's very easy to slip into being the leader of every major group with relatively little effort, and as you don't actually have any leadership duties the situation would be slightly less ridiculous if you were simply an important member as opposed to master of all.
Cube Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 One thing that does bother me about the various Guilds is the inevitability of becoming their masters. That might seem a strange complaint, but I find it's very easy to slip into being the leader of every major group with relatively little effort, and as you don't actually have any leadership duties the situation would be slightly less ridiculous if you were simply an important member as opposed to master of all. Agreed. It should be you who sends them on the trivial quests.
nightwolf Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 If the problems really were game breaking, do you really think people would vote for it? People are stupid, but they're not stupid enough to vote for a game they can no longer play. Call me crazy, but GOTY should be for the game that's you enjoy the most. Skyrim fills that quota for me and then some. Clearly the majority of people feel the same. The only game that's been as fun for me was Rage, but that was way too short. And how are people getting these problems? I'm up to 40 hours with an 8mb save file and I haven't got any problems at all. I've read that "Between 20 and 50 hours" and "over 6mb" and the game becomes "unplayable". I haven't even noticed any drop in performance. On the PC version and I'm in agreement. I can understand why PS3 players are peeved, but by christ, can you not ignore it? This game is huge, well designed and very pretty and yet it doesn't deserve GOTY because of one bug for PS3 players. Mind = blown. I finally got through my quest and got some pretty elven armour in the process. I did lose my horse to a dragon mind, sad times.
Aimless Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 The more important question is why anyone cares a jot about what's voted for at the VGAs. Based on the way the show itself rattles through categories clearly they don't, so I'm not sure why we should. As for the PS3 version, it definitely has issues and it seems perfectly reasonable for those affected to be annoyed by them. It's a bit rich for those who aren't to downplay the experiences of others; if the shoe was on the other foot you know you'd be moaning. To be clear it's easily my most played game of the year — about 70 hours on PS3 — and it's so involving that I don't even really begrudge buying an additional 360 copy as GameStation were selling it cheap. That said it is possible to criticise something you otherwise really like, especially when the flaws are objective, technical ones.
Goafer Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 I'm not downplaying the problems, I'm just pointing out that it can't just be down to save size and play time. If some people's games are unplayable with 6mb save sizes and I'm having no problems with an 8mb save size, clearly it's not just that that effects it is it?
Aimless Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 File size and time played are more correlative than causative. The current theory is that the bloating of what could be described as an interaction database, a record of everything that's changed due to the player's actions, is the root cause. The more you play the more changes the game has to keep track of, such as how items have deviated from their preset positions — you might notice how all the items on a table 'pop' if you nudge one — or NPCs relationships to the player; hitching is most notable in towns when the game's spooling in appropriate dialogue as the player approaches other characters. Naturally you longer you play the more of these interactions there will be for the game to track, and it would appear there is some sort of memory leak involved that can greatly degrade performance of the PS3 version specifically; the other versions likely have the same underlying code issue, it simply doesn't manifest as noticeably. Reportedly the game is smoother on a machine with an SSD instead of a traditional hard drive, so if you've replaced the stock HDD it's possible that the problem would be less pronounced. Other factors come into play, too, such as how many Miscellaneous quests you've completed in each area, how long each of your play sessions last, etc. Whatever the case the last patch improved things a lot, but the game still performs worse the more you play it which isn't really a situation we should accept when dealing with the fixed platforms of the console world.
Goafer Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 The more you play the more changes the game has to keep track of, such as how items have deviated from their preset positions Surely a save size shows how many things are being tracked? If it's not stored in a save file, it's stored in temporary memory and not carried over once the PS3 is turned off. In that case, a restart should solve that problem, which is annoying, but nowhere near as bad as people are making out. I'm guessing that's not the case though. Reportedly the game is smoother on a machine with an SSD instead of a traditional hard drive, so if you've replaced the stock HDD it's possible that the problem would be less pronounced. I have changed my hard drive, but not with an SSD. I've been trying to find the mbps of a standard PS3 HD, but can't find anything so I can't compare my HDDs speed with the standard. I don't remember specifically looking for a fast one though. Other factors come into play, too, such as how many Miscellaneous quests you've completed in each area, how long each of your play sessions last, etc. I've done quite a few side quests. I've probably spend most of my time doing them. I do have quite short play sessions compared to some people though (2-3 hours). Maybe that's it? I also have a shit tonne of separate saves, so that shouldn't be a factor. Iunno, it's a mystery.
Burny Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Surely a save size shows how many things are being tracked? If it's not stored in a save file, it's stored in temporary memory and not carried over once the PS3 is turned off. In that case, a restart should solve that problem, which is annoying, but nowhere near as bad as people are making out. I'm guessing that's not the case though. That's the point, isn't it? The game does track all these things in safe files. If you pick up a candle holder and put it down one foot from it's original position, it'll just stay there. In order to do so, the game has to save the changes you made to the object. Apparently something about the way saving and loading such data is handled results in problems of varying degrees. It never gets so slow that it completely unplayable, ie. never actually freezes. And it only gets slow after several hours of play, and is resolved by resetting the PS3. To get 0FPS these guys have either left the PS3 on for an unrealistic amount of time or are just using the grill vents to cook bacon. Seriously. Sou you do experience slowdowns you shouldn't. The amount of time the PS3 has been left on shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on the game's performance. According to the article, they left the game running for 30 minutes before taking the footage. What point is there in downplaying other people's proven issues, just because you are lucky enough to not have experienced them at this level of severity or don't care if they occur after some hours of playtime? These slowdowns shouldn't happen at all. After 30 minutes no more than after 5 hours.
Jimbob Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 The only real issues i've had with Skyrim is the random crashing. And a dragon returning to life and attacking me, before taking an arrow to the knee. Something occured over the weekend which i still can't explain. Crossed a river (after the Four Skull Lookout) to get to Kolskegger Mines, near Markarth. I crossed over, no problem. Get to the path above, look back down and i see the body of Lydia floating down river. I gathered she drowned after attempting to cross, she's never tried crossing a river or a lake before so i gather NPC's can't swim. Heading down behind her on the river bank, she washes up on the shore and the "search" option becomes available, so i know she was definetly dead. Wasn't carrying anything of value, so left her there. Head into Markarth to see whats what, look behind me to go to the mines and low and behold, Lydia is behind me alive and well. How, i don't know. I am training to become a powerful mage having joined the college in Winterhold as well, learned a few new spells.
Emasher Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 That's the point, isn't it? The game does track all these things in safe files. If you pick up a candle holder and put it down one foot from it's original position, it'll just stay there. In order to do so, the game has to save the changes you made to the object. Apparently something about the way saving and loading such data is handled results in problems of varying degrees. Sou you do experience slowdowns you shouldn't. The amount of time the PS3 has been left on shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on the game's performance. According to the article, they left the game running for 30 minutes before taking the footage. What point is there in downplaying other people's proven issues, just because you are lucky enough to not have experienced them at this level of severity or don't care if they occur after some hours of playtime? These slowdowns shouldn't happen at all. After 30 minutes no more than after 5 hours. There are way too many variables to even speculate on what the actual problem is. The fact that it only happens on the PS3 would suggest that they had a less experienced team port it to the PS3, but that's really all we know. It could be some sort of inefficiency in the format of the save files, the data structures they're using to store the data in memory, or the algorithms they're using to process it when doing any number of tasks.
Murr Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 The only real issues i've had with Skyrim is the random crashing. And a dragon returning to life and attacking me, before taking an arrow to the knee. Something occured over the weekend which i still can't explain. Crossed a river (after the Four Skull Lookout) to get to Kolskegger Mines, near Markarth. I crossed over, no problem. Get to the path above, look back down and i see the body of Lydia floating down river. I gathered she drowned after attempting to cross, she's never tried crossing a river or a lake before so i gather NPC's can't swim. Heading down behind her on the river bank, she washes up on the shore and the "search" option becomes available, so i know she was definetly dead. Wasn't carrying anything of value, so left her there. Head into Markarth to see whats what, look behind me to go to the mines and low and behold, Lydia is behind me alive and well. How, i don't know. I am training to become a powerful mage having joined the college in Winterhold as well, learned a few new spells. I read that people who had lost Lydia in their game (may she rest in peace) they've got married to someone and Lydia has been at the wedding, once the ceremony is over, her body is just there in the temple. Needless to say when I read this, i tried it hoping to see Lydia once more, but to no avail. I'll never get blocked somewhere by her again.
Tales Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Am I the only one who didn't marry Lydia? I got the option but she's ugly so I never went through with it. Married someone from Markath I think, or maybe it was Winterhold. Never seen Lydia since I let her go, as far as I know. She got in the way too much and I did fine without here. Fyi, the patch didn't fix my lag to an extent where I could see a noticable difference. I might have said earlier that it fixed the lag, but it was probably because I had just started the game. Sad to say, I actually got used to the lag(it's the same amount as in the article posted earlier), the game is that good. However, just because of the lag, the game certaintly do not deserve any game of the year award. As Burny said they shouldn't happened at all. It's not ok just because the PS3 has more difficult programming or whatever or because it's hard to fix. It's not ok. Not to mention the platinum screwing glitch. My save is 14 mb big after 90 hours or so.
Sheikah Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 That's the point, isn't it? The game does track all these things in safe files. If you pick up a candle holder and put it down one foot from it's original position, it'll just stay there. In order to do so, the game has to save the changes you made to the object. Apparently something about the way saving and loading such data is handled results in problems of varying degrees. Sou you do experience slowdowns you shouldn't. The amount of time the PS3 has been left on shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on the game's performance. According to the article, they left the game running for 30 minutes before taking the footage. Well than that's bollocks and the fact that you keep citing this article as opposed to your own experience says enough. This is a problem that for me (someone who has played ridiculous amounts of time, far more than them) is resolved after a reset and only happens after a number of hours and usually after several passes of congested towns. My experience is also backed up by Goafer's, in that his short (2-3h) bursts of play probably account for why he only sees minor slowdowns. It's an extremely easy test to make if you wish to contest my point (try resetting). If you don't have the means then I suggest you don't keep trying to ring home a point based on footage you've seen.
Cube Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 I read that people who had lost Lydia in their game (may she rest in peace) they've got married to someone and Lydia has been at the wedding, once the ceremony is over, her body is just there in the temple. In my game, the appearance of Lydia's body at my wedding caused my wife-to-be to leave me.
Tales Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Excuse me, does it make it all good just because it's fixed after resetting? No game should force you to reset the console to make the game work properly. It should have been worked out before the game was released. Delay it if you have to. And I can tell the article is not wrong. It does get that bad.
Goafer Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 What point is there in downplaying other people's proven issues, just because you are lucky enough to not have experienced them at this level of severity or don't care if they occur after some hours of playtime? These slowdowns shouldn't happen at all. After 30 minutes no more than after 5 hours. I'm not downplaying the problems, I'm just pointing out that it can't just be down to save size and play time. If some people's games are unplayable with 6mb save sizes and I'm having no problems with an 8mb save size, clearly it's not just that that effects it is it? Call me curious, but I just want to figure out why it's happening to some and not others. It's a curse really. I should just say "Fuck it, mine's fine. Not my problem".
Sheikah Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Excuse me, does it make it all good just because it's fixed after resetting? No game should force you to reset the console to make the game work properly. It should have been worked out before the game was released. Delay it if you have to. And I can tell the article is not wrong. It does get that bad. Excuse me, did I ever say it was all good? No. He was arguing that it had nothing to do with how long since you first started a load, which is bollocks. It is annoying but in no way gamebreaking. If you left your PC on for hours it can go to shit; admittedly more hours than this but you wouldn't exactly write your PC off because of it.
Burny Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Well than that's bollocks and the fact that you keep citing this article as opposed to your own experience says enough. I'm waiting for the inevitable GotY version. I know one thing though: If there is no general consensus that these issues have been resolved when it eventually comes, it won't be the PS3 version, although that would've been my choice otherwise. This effectively means Steam sales. No, having to restart the console after any time won't do, as you're not able to control how long "any" is. Even shipping a game in such a state is a kick in the teeth for the consumer and you don't need to own the game to point it out. @Goafer: That was obviously a response to Sheikah's post. You absolutely should say that and just hope that you won't experience these issues as you progress. It's not like Bethesda are going to give a detailed explanation, after they shipped the game in such a state, so we're left to speculate either way. There are way too many variables to even speculate on what the actual problem is. Curiously enough, Fallout 3 and New Vegas are said to have had similar issues on the PS3 and we now have an explanation from one of the New Vegas guys just why this happened in their case. That's more than enough basis for speculation, no? We also know that they improved them by removing objects from all versions of the game. Naturally, Bethesda's PR is denying that it's the same issue for Skyrim, but the symptoms seem to be the same nevertheless. He was arguing that it had nothing to do with how long since you first started a load,... Erm... No? You say it's some hours for you, Eurogamer says, it's about 30 minutes after loading for them. So neither of you have control about how long it takes for the issues to set in. It shouldn't happen under any circumstances. Edited December 13, 2011 by Burny
Sheikah Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Erm... No? You say it's some hours for you, Eurogamer says, it's about 30 minutes after loading for them. So neither of you have control about how long it takes for the issues to set in. It shouldn't happen under any circumstances. Oh dear lord, are you selectively being ignorant? Obviously releasing a game with clear slowdown issues is unacceptable. But what this isn't, is gamebreaking like was said here. As unlike New Vegas the game very rarely locks up, meaning you don't lose your data. And again, until you try resetting or playing it yourself I suggest you stop passing off anothers experience as your own.
Emasher Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 Curiously enough, Fallout 3 and New Vegas are said to have had similar issues on the PS3 and we now have an explanation from one of the New Vegas guys just why this happened in their case. That's more than enough basis for speculation, no? We also know that they improved them by removing objects from all versions of the game. Naturally, Bethesda's PR is denying that it's the same issue for Skyrim, but the symptoms seem to be the same nevertheless. The only consistent symptom is that there's a slowdown correlated to the amount of stuff you've done in the game. This could be caused by any number of problems, and could very easily be something completely different. I'm not saying it isn't the same thing, as it could be, but we don't have enough information to really say that.
nightwolf Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 All I can truly think of here is: ''Ahh the good thinking to have bought it on PC instead''. But of course that makes me a giant ass, but never mind. Honestly, I can see exactly why it bugs people, it's something that stops you effectively from playing the game, I've not particularly read much into it, for obvious reasons, but I'd be surprised if Bethseada were doing f all about it, especially as it seems to be happening to so many. As it is, I've not touched the game for a few days, the only glitch I've occurred is my horse flew for all of 6 seconds, in which I proceeded to scream ''Allie you get your ass back down here now or so help me I will have you turned to glue.'' I fear I watch too many of OmfgCata's Jesse Cox's videos and that I am infact, slightly insane. I do not care about either. Whoop.
Aimless Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 A flying horse is nothing compared to the human swingball:
Jimbob Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 I read that people who had lost Lydia in their game (may she rest in peace) they've got married to someone and Lydia has been at the wedding, once the ceremony is over, her body is just there in the temple. Needless to say when I read this, i tried it hoping to see Lydia once more, but to no avail. I'll never get blocked somewhere by her again. Weird indeed, i've only had dragons coming back to life. Not dead NPC's attending weddings so far. Lydia attended my wedding and congratulated me as well. Am I the only one who didn't marry Lydia? I got the option but she's ugly so I never went through with it. Married someone from Markath I think, or maybe it was Winterhold. Never seen Lydia since I let her go, as far as I know. She got in the way too much and I did fine without here. Lydia returns to Whiterun or wherever your house is awaiting you, so if the need to have a companion is necessary for yourself, thats where she be.
nightwolf Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 A flying horse is nothing compared to the human swingball: I'm disappointed that this has happened in my life.
flameboy Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 My copy from game station still not arrived been 8 days since it was despatched now. Annoying as actually have the time to play it.
Recommended Posts