Your Capitalist Agenda Pushing List

[Ashley]

I get your purchases, they make sense under my reasoning for life (I have a ps3, after all), I'm just saying, why is it that you're so driven to want things you don't really need?

 

No, not love and affection, I was thinking along the lines of a camping trip to alaska or a pass to the indian railways, you know, something that you could actually benefit from! (You're gonna benefit from having the tablet, of course, but as much as I love gaming, it's never once propelled me towards a better existance, lol. And as for the DVDs, you can just watch the movies to get the experience, you don't actually need to have them.

 

Oh, and obviously this is a very hypothetic situation, I'm just plucking random thoughts out of my ass. ^^

 

One other thing, you actually have a Christmas list over there? Like, a real list? I'm curious.

 

I intend to travel next summer but would rather use my own money and get something palatable to open on xmas day.

 

I only get DVDs with films I can see myself watching numerous times. Plus with DVDs if they have Italian subs then I can use them to learn too. Currently watching Monsters Inc in Italian. "Latte di bue tibetano" is an expression I can see myself using a lot.

 

And yes I suppose I essentially have a Christmas list, but its mostly because my mother is as scatterbrained as I am. It helps to have something written down to ensure theres no mistakes made. For instance speaking to my nan earlier and my cousin wants a Miley Cyrus book but my nan was saying "she wants a book by Michelle someone" so god knows what would happen if there wasn't a written list :p

[Oxigen_Waste]

I intend to travel next summer but would rather use my own money and get something palatable to open on xmas day.

 

Booo! Lame!!! "something palatable", that's lame.

 

I only get DVDs with films I can see myself watching numerous times. Plus with DVDs if they have Italian subs then I can use them to learn too. Currently watching Monsters Inc in Italian. "Latte di bue tibetano" is an expression I can see myself using a lot.

 

Unfortunately I have DVDs I've only seen once, and I have way too many DVDs, although I don't have almost any bad movies. I'm a disgrace to my own ideals, lol.

 

That means tibetan ox milk, right? Latin languages are similar, that's what it seems to be in portuguese logic.

 

And yes I suppose I essentially have a Christmas list, but its mostly because my mother is as scatterbrained as I am. It helps to have something written down to ensure theres no mistakes made. For instance speaking to my nan earlier and my cousin wants a Miley Cyrus book but my nan was saying "she wants a book by Michelle someone" so god knows what would happen if there wasn't a written list :p

 

That part I was just asking out of curiosity, 'cause we don't have "real" lists here, only a mental projection of what we may want.

[Eenuh]

To be honest I don't see a problem in wanting things, as long as you're being reasonable and not expecting it all.

 

I want children books cause I love looking at them and it might give me inspiration.

I want CDs cause music fuels me and gives me energy.

I want an art coupon cause I need art supplies. =P

I wouldn't mind some DVDs of stuff I enjoy watching (Disney!) cause people need entertainment too.

 

Wanting things is always a bit egotistical I guess, but as long as you're not expecting the most expensive things I don't see that much wrong with it. =)

 

And yes, I do have a list for my family, as it makes things a bit easier on us. =P

Though our lists are just suggestions, if we find something else we think someone would like, of course we just go for that. =)

[Goafer]

I have got a bluray player for my pa, along with a bluray or two to play on it.

 

Got mum a bluray so that she can watch something on fathers new toy. Need to get her a main present now. I think she wants some sort of jewellery.

 

 

I haven't asked for anything from my parents. If I wanted it, I'd have bought it by now. Could do with a coat though I suppose. Problem is, I'm fussy with clothes. I'm quite liking these ones though:

 

 

Bit too much for me though.

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

Lists aren't a bad thing. I can think of a few times where I've had to get a gift for someone and I've really struggled. Mainly because I'm not sure if the person has that thing in the first place, if they would like this particular gift, or if somebody else is already planning to get them this gift, haha.

 

A list is a pretty good idea, I think. For one thing, it means that you're getting something that the other person definitely wants or needs. I'd feel a bit bad if I got somebody one particular gift but then realise afterwards that they probably "needed" something else a bit more. True, getting any present is always a great feeling anyway, but it can be tough if you're the one buying them stuff and you're devoid of ideas, haha.

 

The only thing I think is that it's much less of a surprise, since you basically asked for that item in the first place, hehe.

[MoogleViper]

If it's superficial, then it's egotistical. Of course it's to do with your ego. Except for the fun part, if you want it to look good (not that Ibiza or Polo are ugly cars, but you get my point), or want to overtake others with ease instead of through effort, then it's as ego-driven as can be.

 

Well the overtaking part isn't egotistical. It's safer and easier. I can overtake quicker rather than having to wait until there's a long straight road with nobody else coming. I'm not overtaking because I think it makes me look cool.

 

Perhaps the looking good thing is egotistical. But I want something that I think looks good. I don't care whether anybody else thinks so. Maybe that's a self esteem thing. But why would I choose something that I thought was ugly? I'm going to see my car almost everyday so surely I'd want something that I would enjoy looking at?

[Oxigen_Waste]

To be honest I don't see a problem in wanting things, as long as you're being reasonable and not expecting it all.

 

I want children books cause I love looking at them and it might give me inspiration.

I want CDs cause music fuels me and gives me energy.

I want an art coupon cause I need art supplies. =P

I wouldn't mind some DVDs of stuff I enjoy watching (Disney!) cause people need entertainment too.

 

Wanting things is always a bit egotistical I guess, but as long as you're not expecting the most expensive things I don't see that much wrong with it. =)

 

And yes, I do have a list for my family, as it makes things a bit easier on us. =P

Though our lists are just suggestions, if we find something else we think someone would like, of course we just go for that. =)

 

I'm not saying there's a problem. But there is, actually, that kind of thinking landed us where we are now (on a global picture), within this ideology that you are what you own/your wallet/your job. I mean, why exactly is it that a doctor is seen as more successful than a janitor? Just because everybody can replace a janitor doesn't make him any less essential. And just because he's working a more menial job doesn't mean he's dumber or less capable than a doctor. Yet, the doctor is always looked upon as a picture of success while the janitor is pretty much snubbed out of society's customs. The big difference between them is their wealth. Which pretty much means that success = money. Most of that money is used towards menial ends like cars or the such in both cases, so yeah, there is a problem in "wanting things" if that means we're gonna discriminate people for having more or less of those things.

 

And wanting something beause you love looking at it is just plain idiotic (I'm not degrading you, I do stuff like that too). It serves no point. It's pure masturbation. The inspiration thing is more like an excuse you create to appease yourself. It's like the whole concept of women having clothes for themselves x4.

 

But, again, those are just random thoughts. Don't take me the wrong way.

[Supergrunch]

To be honest Oxigen, can you think of any human activity that isn't ultimately in some way masturbatory? You just end up with the selfless good deed debate.

[Goafer]

And just because he's working a more menial job doesn't mean he's dumber or less capable than a doctor. Yet, the doctor is always looked upon as a picture of success while the janitor is pretty much snubbed out of society's customs.

 

Or because the Doctor has put in years of study, not to mention financial commitment to becoming a doctor. The Janitor just walked into a job interview and said "I'll clean that shit".

 

Not that I'm disrespecting Janitors, God knows I wouldn't want to do what they do.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Well the overtaking part isn't egotistical. It's safer and easier. I can overtake quicker rather than having to wait until there's a long straight road with nobody else coming. I'm not overtaking because I think it makes me look cool.

 

Perhaps the looking good thing is egotistical. But I want something that I think looks good. I don't care whether anybody else thinks so. Maybe that's a self esteem thing. But why would I choose something that I thought was ugly? I'm going to see my car almost everyday so surely I'd want something that I would enjoy looking at?

 

Oh, that's what overtaking is? I thought overtaking was used in a "racing" context, you know, macho-contest-like-my-car-is-better-than-yours-I-outran-you. Sorry about that. My english still needs some patching up.

 

As for the looking good... what, Ibizas and Polos are ugly? They're normal! Neither looks bad! You just want that particular car because your ego says so. Much like I want the 240z. It's passional, there's no possible reasoning behind it.

[MoogleViper]

As for the looking good... what, Ibizas and Polos are ugly? They're normal! Neither looks bad!

 

No they're not ugly. (Well I think Ibizas are.) I just think a Delta looks better. And that's not the sole reason for me wanting one, but it's a factor. You wouldn't buy clothes that you thought looked ugly would you?

 

It's pure masturbation.

 

What's your point?

[Oxigen_Waste]

To be honest Oxigen, can you think of any human activity that isn't ultimately in some way masturbatory? You just end up with the selfless good deed debate.

 

Well, I can, but you're right, it's like one in 10 billions. Still, there's more productive forms of masturbation, is what I'm getting at. Having things and spending obsessing over the possession of things is such a waste of time. For me, at least.

 

Or because the Doctor has put in years of study, not to mention financial commitment to becoming a doctor. The Janitor just walked into a job interview and said "I'll clean that shit".

 

So that makes the doctor better? Having studied more and having spent more money? Bullshit.

 

Even so, apply the same logic between a doctor and a physicist, then. Even more study, and slightly less financial commitment. Why is the doctor regarded as more successful?

[Eenuh]

I think it's normal for someone who wants to be an illustrator to own illustrated works by other people. It's like musicians listening to other people's music. It gives you inspiration, it can influence you so you can become what you want to be.

 

If looking at things was pure masturbation than I'd be looking at a lot more things to get to a climax haha. Hmm maybe that's what I'm doing wrong then... =P

[Oxigen_Waste]

No they're not ugly. (Well I think Ibizas are.) I just think a Delta looks better. And that's not the sole reason for me wanting one, but it's a factor. You wouldn't buy clothes that you thought looked ugly would you?

 

No, but that's a different thing. I have to buy clothes. It's a necessity. Since I have to buy them, I buy ones I like more. But even if I had bought the other ones (the ugly ones), there'd be no difference, I'd still have clothes to dress with.

With the cars, depending on which one you get, a lot changes, especiall financially and enviromentaly. Plus, cars aren't a necessity, they're a luxury.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Oxygen, there is a lot of responsibility that comes with being a doctor. You cannot afford to make mistakes, as it could result in the death of a patient. Like a mis-diagnosis, for example. There's a reason you have to spend an insane amount of money and spend a daft amount of time studying to become a doctor, because you have the lives of others in your hands. That is a huge responsibility.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a janitor. If you want to become a janitor, then that's what you are choosing to do. But, personally, I believe that they are two very, very different jobs. When a janitor goes to work, he or she never usually thinks that a mistake could potentially end up with the death of a patient.

 

(unless you forget to mop the floor leading to a staircase...10 floors high, haha)

 

However, your job doesn't always reflect who you are as a person. Many doctors can be arseholes. I've met a fair few. Hehehe.

[Oxigen_Waste]

I think it's normal for someone who wants to be an illustrator to own illustrated works by other people. It's like musicians listening to other people's music. It gives you inspiration, it can influence you so you can become what you want to be.

 

If looking at things was pure masturbation than I'd be looking at a lot more things to get to a climax haha. Hmm maybe that's what I'm doing wrong then... =P

 

I'm not saying it's not normal, but it isn't really necessary if you get more involved in the creative proccess.

 

Got me there, though.

[Goafer]

So that makes the doctor better? Having studied more and having spent more money? Bullshit.

 

I'm not saying it makes them better at all (I seriously hate the idea that anyone can be seen as better based on jobs). What I'm saying is that the Doctor has put a lot of effort into achieving his/her career, where the Janitor hasn't. That's why I would see the Doctor as "Successful" (not neccesarily better) in terms of careers. Paychecks and posessions have nothing to do with success in my eyes. Achieving your desired job through hard work does. Now if you were to say that a Janitor finds his job as rewarding and enjoyable as a Doctor, then I would say he was successful too. But let's face it, I doubt there are many Janitors that enjoy their jobs as much as Doctors do.

 

In short: Success = Enjoyment of your job/life in general (as long as you make enough to support yourself/family)

 

I have different respect for each of them. Respect for the Doctor for their level of commitment and respect for the Janitor for doing a job that I wouldn't so myself. All the more so if the Janitor enjoys his work.

 

 

 

Hopefully all that makes sense. I'm tired.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Oxygen, there is a lot of responsibility that comes with being a doctor. You cannot afford to make mistakes, as it could result in the death of a patient. Like a mis-diagnosis, for example. There's a reason you have to spend an insane amount of money and spend a daft amount of time studying to become a doctor, because you have the lives of others in your hands. That is a huge responsibility.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a janitor. If you want to become a janitor, then that's what you are choosing to do. But, personally, I believe that they are two very, very different jobs. When a janitor goes to work, he or she never usually thinks that a mistake could potentially end up with the death of a patient.

 

(unless you forget to mop the floor leading to a staircase...10 floors high, haha)

 

However, your job doesn't always reflect who you are as a person. Many doctors can be arseholes. I've met a fair few. Hehehe.

 

I said doctor by chance. I could've just as easily have said lawyer or business manager. What you're using right there is a fallacious argument! Or not. But you get what I mean. The reason I said doctor is cause my dad's a doctor, and it just came into my head first. That profession in particular is flawed to use as an example here, you are correct.

Still, I've been around doctors all my life and they don't really "do" anything extra. They do what they were taught to do and if it goes wrong they don't get blamed for it unless they did something they weren't supposed to do (ie, messed up). Just because the consequences of their mistakes are more controversial in the human psyche than using the wrong bleach, for example, doesn't mean they are better in anyway. It only means that if they screw up, the loss is bigger. By your logic, a bus driver should be more respected than a doctor.

 

Paychecks and posessions have nothing to do with success in my eyes. Achieving your desired job through hard work does. Now if you were to say that a Janitor finds his job as rewarding and enjoyable as a Doctor, then I would say he was successful too. But let's face it, I doubt there are many Janitors that enjoy their jobs as much as Doctors do.

 

In short: Success = Enjoyment of your job/life in general (as long as you make enough to support yourself/family)

 

Great post right there. But still, while I essentially agree with you, especially the bolded parts, it almost never checks out. 95% of doctors only became doctors because it's such a well regarded and well-paid position. The same applies with almost all "successful" professions. And you know I'm right. Now, cuban doctors, they're the best in the world because the ones that do choose it as a career, do so because they really want to, because they get paid the same and are treated the same way. Is it a coincidence they're the best in the world (as a whole, not individually)?

 

Either way, I have to go and eat cause I didn't have dinner, bitches. Be back later.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Oxigen_Waste
Automerged Doublepost

[Fierce_LiNk]

I said doctor by chance. I could've just as easily have said lawyer or business manager. What you're using right there is a fallacious argument! Or not. But you get what I mean. The reason I said doctor is cause my dad's a doctor, and it just came into my head first. That profession in particular is flawed to use as an example here, you are correct.

Still, I've been around doctors all my life and they don't really "do" anything extra. They do what they were taught to do and if it goes wrong they don't get blamed for it unless they did something they weren't supposed to do (ie, messed up). Just because the consequences of their mistakes are more controversial in the human psyche than using the wrong bleach, for example, doesn't mean they are better in anyway. It only means that if they screw up, the loss is bigger. By your logic, a bus driver should be more respected than a doctor.

 

Yes, it's your own bluddy fault for choosing those examples.

Also, I didn't say that one profession deserves more respect than the next. I was pointing out that with each job comes with a different set of reponsibilities. I think different jobs all contribute something to the bigger picture. Doctor's are important because they help maintain the health of others. Janitors also do that, but in a different way. They make sure that the hospitals and other places are clean.

 

Each job comes with its different "pressures" and "stresses", too. Think of a teaching assistant for example. They work very hard within the school, but as soon as the bell goes at 3 o'clock, they can go home and have no further work to do. However, the same can't be said for the teacher. There's planning, assessment, and also things like reports that need filling out. So, the hours are not strictly set from 9-3, for example. Both jobs are very important, but they have different expectations.

 

With the bus driver part: All jobs should be respected, imo. A person is choosing to take part in that profession or area, and they should be respected no matter the job. I remember getting into an argument with someone ages ago because they said that you shouldn't "have" to say thank you to bus drivers, because it is their job to transport you to places. My argument was that they are providing you with a service, so you should be thanking them for that service.

 

It's true, if a bus driver screws up, many people could die. The main goal of a bus driver is to transport passengers from one destination to the next in the safest way possible. Safety is quite a big thing on buses, I think (tons of signs everywhere, at least on the buses I've seen haha). Also, funny you mention that. My Mum used to be a Bus Conductor and my Dad used to be a Driver. (one of many jobs)

 

Anyway...*crosses OxyWaste from Christmas List*

 

I still think they're a good idea.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Fierce_LiNk

[Raining_again]

No, but that's a different thing. I have to buy clothes. It's a necessity. Since I have to buy them, I buy ones I like more. But even if I had bought the other ones (the ugly ones), there'd be no difference, I'd still have clothes to dress with.

With the cars, depending on which one you get, a lot changes, especiall financially and enviromentaly. Plus, cars aren't a necessity, they're a luxury.

 

You could argue that point.. A car is pretty much gotten to be a necessity to me. Just a bugatti veyron isn't a necessity! (how I'd love to drive one though!)

 

Who gave you rights to decide what is a good thing to "want" for christmas? Everyone's different. :P

 

The only thing I think that I really want is a humongous big box of chocolates. Then I'm going to sit, on Christmas day, and scoff EVERY LAST ONE.

[Molly]

Oxigen I feel like you're making such a flawed argument. You buy the nice coats, dvds and books that you want, so what is the point of trying to make other people feel guilty for getting things they want for Christmas. It's idealism gone mad.

 

Yes we should all look beyond material possessions when we're judging character, that's obvious!

[Ashley]

Great post right there. But still, while I essentially agree with you, especially the bolded parts, it almost never checks out. 95% of doctors only became doctors because it's such a well regarded and well-paid position. The same applies with almost all "successful" professions. And you know I'm right. Now, cuban doctors, they're the best in the world because the ones that do choose it as a career, do so because they really want to, because they get paid the same and are treated the same way. Is it a coincidence they're the best in the world (as a whole, not individually)?

 

Either way, I have to go and eat cause I didn't have dinner, bitches. Be back later.

 

You want us to become a state run society?

 

I'm happy with the quality of life we have now thanks

[ReZourceman]

W....What have you all done to Christmas?

 

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Besides, what is actually a necessity here in life? Only food can technically be called a necessity. "Wasting time" and "serving a purpose" are also ambiguous concepts. If I enjoy playing a video game, is it a waste of time? If it helps me relax, does it not serve a purpose? And in the grand scheme of things, what is the purpose of life? We're all going to die, anyway.

 

Yeah, it's taking things a little far, but it's just to show your logic isn't completely logical. Of course I understand your point that materialism is taking over and giving us a false sense of happiness that ultimately leaves us unsatisfied and wanting more. And that's obviously a bad thing. But there's a difference between that and enjoying the pleasures of life that we have access to.

[Raining_again]

Besides, what is actually a necessity here in life? Only food can technically be called a necessity. "Wasting time" and "serving a purpose" are also ambiguous concepts. If I enjoy playing a video game, is it a waste of time? If it helps me relax, does it not serve a purpose? And in the grand scheme of things, what is the purpose of life? We're all going to die, anyway.

 

Yeah, it's taking things a little far, but it's just to show your logic isn't completely logical. Of course I understand your point that materialism is taking over and giving us a false sense of happiness that ultimately leaves us unsatisfied and wanting more. And that's obviously a bad thing. But there's a difference between that and enjoying the pleasures of life that we have access to.

 

food, water, shelter. Of which you usually need some form of income to keep.

 

Other than that the world is pretty much your oyster. If you can afford to go out and buy 20 different games consoles or 4 cars, who cares. It's not like you are really harming anyone.