[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Ronnie]

Grazza you talk way too much sense

[yesteryeargames]

beautiful

[Jimbob]

Lol nah Twilight Princess was epic but 'I' feel it lacked the originality, naturalness and specialness that OoT has. Also, not to be mean, the visuals in Twilight Princess hardly absorbed my attention into the world of Hyrule! There were tons of moments that had me thinking "If only Wii was as powerful as..."

 

It had been decided by many fans that Nintendo made Twilight Princess for all the fans who wanted ultra-realistic graphics since the Spaceworld demo.

 

And the video clip, wow. That is a style of graphics i like, mix of realistic with the cel-shading at the right levels.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Jimbob

[Ronnie]

beautiful

 

Great clip, thanks for posting it. I'm getting a definite WW vibe from that action, and I really adore how colourful the pallete is. TP was so dull and lifeless this is like a breath of fresh air, I can imagine some truly gorgeous locations and art design in the final game

[LostOverThere]

Great clip, thanks for posting it. I'm getting a definite WW vibe from that action, and I really adore how colourful the pallete is. TP was so dull and lifeless this is like a breath of fresh air, I can imagine some truly gorgeous locations and art design in the final game

Truer words have never been spoken. I think the colour palette has a real potential to make some absolutely stunning set pieces.

 

I know this is an old video, but damn, those are some nice lighting effects.

[Jamba]

Great clip, thanks for posting it. I'm getting a definite WW vibe from that action, and I really adore how colourful the pallete is. TP was so dull and lifeless this is like a breath of fresh air, I can imagine some truly gorgeous locations and art design in the final game

 

That sense of WW comes from the use of all of the same sound effects. Strangely looking at Link's latest design he looks more like the Space World version than ever before.

[Burny]

I would not be averse to seeing another "realistic" game though. It worked for OOT and I could see how they were trying to recreate that in TP.

It didn't really "work" for OoT, because they never tried. Have a look at games of the era that tried to look realistic and at OoT. In OoT you have cartoony proportions everywhere. Overlarge heads, overly large eyes and typically exaggerated animations. It becomes even clearer if you have a look at the 3DS Remake, which is basically an idealized version of OoT with slightly sharper textures. It's just that in the N64 days, "realistic" looking games didn't look any more realistic, than cartoony looking games.

 

TP itself was highly cartoony, too. You get the same large eyes, often exaggerated proportions and animations as in OoT. The real difference is, that TP tried to look "gritty" in as "everything gets more serious when it's brown and gray". People just completely confuse "realistic" and "gritty" graphics.

[Beverage]

People just completely confuse "realistic" and "gritty" graphics.

 

Don't worry Burny, not aiming this at ya

 

But it's funny you should say that. Because if my memory serves correctly, I said that I'd like to see a more "serious" looking LoZ game more on the lines of OoT (obviously with the gorgeous graphics and a woderful+convincing art style). I don't recall specifically saying that I wanted to see a flat out "real" version.

 

Also, in WW I adored the creative and naturalness in general (art style & gameplay). I also found it amazing how it differs from say your OoT's, MM's & TP's. Which is why I'd also love to see another LoZ title in the same style of WW, too. .... WITH 'NEXT GEN' CAPABILITIES! (thought I'd take precaution and be specific this time :wink: )

Edited February 18, 2011 by Beverage

[killer kirby]

Man playing Wind Waker now, other then graphics it's outdated big time. Dungeon Design is so ugh >_> Shittiest Zelda dungeons EVAR!!! and boring overworld, I thought there was more going on when I first played the game. Other then graphics there is nothing to praise about the game.

[Burny]

Don't worry Burny, not aiming this at ya

 

I don't recall specifically saying that I wanted to see a flat out "real" version.

You didn't, Grazza did. :p

 

WITH 'NEXT GEN' CAPABILITIES!

What does that even mean?

 

From what I know playing PS3 and PC games, "Next Gen" pretty much means "Same Gen" with more going on on the screen, larger levels and everything behaving physically more correct. Yes, I would like to see a Zelda with Uncharted 2 level graphics, too, but with a series, that relies on clever puzzle design, building up a quasi-open world to explore, with characters to interact with and that have you solve more puzzles being an important part, that wouldn't be enough. And in my eyes, it isn't even essential for Zelda as opposed to a playable 10-hour action movie, which would be rather underwhelming, if it wasn't as technically impressive.

 

The only scenario I could come up with, where more advanced hardware would really benefit the Zelda series beyond eye candy, is when Nintendo decided to put Zelda into a completely open world (think Elder Scrolls). I doubt that's the way forward for the Zelda series, though. It'd probably only serve to contribute to what where my complaints with TP, the general lifelessness and emptiness of the overworld.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Burny

[Ronnie]

Other then graphics there is nothing to praise about the game.

 

I suspect you're going OTT on purpose after hearing all the TP bashing...?

[Fused King]

Those vids really reminded me how much colour NINTENDO has brought into my life.

[Beverage]

't is a new dawn, 't is a new day, 't is a new life, hooOO hoo-hoo-hooOOooo hoo, ..... And I'm feelin' goohood.

 

*In Simon Cowell's voice* Sorry for having an opinion.

[Shorty]

To contradict my earlier desire for dual analogue, I would much prefer to see still screenshots of the towns, NPCs and stuff like that than videos of how slashing enemies would work.

 

Don't Nintendo realise that it's the stories, domains, music, art and characters that have grabbed our want over all these years? Not a desire for 1:1 motion controlled swordplay.

[DemonHunter]

If you think about it there has never been a realistic Zelda and I'm glad there hasn't. Twilight Princess wasn't realistic in any sense, darker in atmosphere maybe (Not as dark as Majora's Mask) but never realistic.

What you got to ask yourself is, do you want a Zelda game that looks like Gears of War or Call of Duty in terms of "realistic visuals?" Seeing some of those gameplay videos above made me wonder why I ever had any doubts that Nintendo will not make a good game. Twilight Princess was a fantastic game, but for the first time, a Zelda title's gameplay felt old.

I can't wait for Skyward Sword, it'll be a breath of fresh air just like Wind Waker.

[Shorty]

I don't want realistic visuals, although there is a line somewhere between the block colours of a cartoon world and the strong and well lit gradients of an art style that simply reflects the palette of real life without necessarily looking like reality.

 

That said, neither design style would be better for me, I'd be happy with either as long as they were executed with skill and supported with the kind of artwork that made Majora's Mask's Termina such a sight to behold.

 

The only sense of realism I want in my Zelda is that slight sense of believability that the world they have created is habitable. One of the things I disliked about Twilight Princess was that the entire Kingdom I was trying to save was barely alive in the first place. The most dynamic and interesting parts of it were the dungeons tucked away in forests and mountains, in which nobody lived. The friendly NPCs mostly hung out in a single market town, never straying from their homes (not surprising really, lest they fall into deep inexplicable crevices to nowhere). One thing I really wanted to happen, just a little fanservice, was to have Kakariko Village rebuilt and refilled with inhabitants as the game progressed.

 

Wind Waker had so much more of a vibrant overworld, and that was somehow helped by the ocean as its restriction. Tie everyone to their islands and it makes sense to over-populate one spot (Windfall) and rarely venture out.

[Burny]

Don't Nintendo realise that it's the stories, domains, music, art and characters that have grabbed our want over all these years? Not a desire for 1:1 motion controlled swordplay.

 

I disagree on not wanting them to experiment with motion controls, while I agree that music, characters, worlds and atmosphere resulting from that make half a Zelda game. The other half for me would be the puzzle and exploration based game mechanics.

 

But the stories? Which ones? The ones where you are the chosen one (or eventually find out that you are) and have to puzzle your way through eight temples for strange artifacts, so you have the power to defeat the evil threatening the land? Or the ones where you land yourself in a different realm that is threatened by evil, so you set out to retrieve strange powerful artifacts from several temples - filled with puzzles, of course - so you can defeat said evil?

 

Seriously, next to any Zelda (and pretty much most Nintendo games), your average blockbuster action movie has a sensible and well thought out story.

 

Though you're absolutely right that the SS trailer is rather poor. Showing off your puzzle mechanics doesn't make for exciting scenes.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Burny

[Shorty]

But the stories? Which ones? The ones where you are the chosen one (or eventually find out that you are) and have to puzzle your way through eight temples for strange artifacts, so you have the power to defeat the evil threatening the land? Or the ones where you land yourself in a different realm that is threatened by evil, so you set out to retrieve strange powerful artifacts from several temples - filled with puzzles, of course - so you can defeat said evil?

How about the one where you have to stop the moon from falling on the world over three days? And when you run out of time, you go back and start those three days, only carrying with you what you can, items and knowledge, to trying and prevent the seemingly inevitable.

 

But honestly, I didn't really mean the story of the whole game. I've never sat back and thought "what a great plot" after a Zelda game, but I have felt involved and drawn in by the causes of the NPCs. Whether it's been the silent man by the sign in the Link to the Past desert, or the frozen Zora's domain in OoT, Anju and Kafei's wedding or even something small like Biggoron's dispute with his brother. Story may not have been the right word, but a rather a certain level of interaction with the world.

 

On your other point: true. Puzzles, exploration and action have been brilliant in Zelda games. But loads of games do that, many do it well, some dare I say it do it better. What is it really about Zelda games that makes us feel that only Nintendo games can deliver this particular quality? To me it's the atmosphere surrounding the - admittedly very solid - gameplay mechanics.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Shorty
typo

[Fused King]

I thought that most people disliked Twilight Princess because these guys were introduced:

 

 

and further along the story this shocking piece of news was revealed:

 

'Shad, following in his father's footsteps, has devoted his life to studying the Oocca. According to him, the Oocca are the closest race to the gods, closer even than Hylians, whom the Oocca themselves are said to have created. After the sky beings created the Hylians, they simultaneously formed their own city: a city that floats in the heavens which can only be reached via a Sky Cannon.'

 

To this day, I still CANNOT wrap my head around the fact that these beings are supreme beings close to the gods:laughing:

 

Come to think of it, 'a city that floats in the heavens'...hmmm....Perhaps Link will be able to transform into one of these guys when he's up in the clouds:D

Edited February 18, 2011 by Fused King

[Cube]

I thought that most people disliked Twilight Princess because these guys were introduced:

 

 

That was in Twilight Princess???

 

The Sky Temple just got me thinking...will we see that kind of thing back when it was all new and not ruined?

[Jonnas]

I don't see the problem with Ooccoo. If she looked like "The Scream", the haters might have had a point...

[The Peeps]

Ooccoo was just really bizarre and out of place. Kind of creeped me out too.

[Grazza]

It didn't really "work" for OoT, because they never tried. Have a look at games of the era that tried to look realistic and at OoT. In OoT you have cartoony proportions everywhere. Overlarge heads, overly large eyes and typically exaggerated animations. It becomes even clearer if you have a look at the 3DS Remake, which is basically an idealized version of OoT with slightly sharper textures. It's just that in the N64 days, "realistic" looking games didn't look any more realistic, than cartoony looking games.

 

TP itself was highly cartoony, too. You get the same large eyes, often exaggerated proportions and animations as in OoT. The real difference is, that TP tried to look "gritty" in as "everything gets more serious when it's brown and gray". People just completely confuse "realistic" and "gritty" graphics.

 

I can't agree with these points. Firstly, because the N64 was perfectly capable of cartoony colours (look at Mario 64) - Ocarina of Time definitely went for a more subdued colour palette. Therefore, there was a deliberate attempt to make a game that was, if you don't want to call it "realistic", was not strongly cartoon-like. Secondly, there is a clear difference between the way Link was modelled in OOT and Wind Waker. In OOT, his anatomy is a reasonable attempt at realism, whereas in WW his arms and legs are like pipe cleaners.

 

I'd agree with you that Twilight Princess was too "gritty" (just thinking of the detailed armour on the Darknuts - didn't work for me), and I certainly don't want to see a "Gears of Zelda". However, this is exactly what I meant when I said it was only partially successful. They may have gone too gritty with the character designs, but at the same time you can see they tried to recreate some of the N64 games' colours and lighting (the "tour round the overworld" before the title screen is highly reminiscent of OOT's).

 

I couldn't agree that Twilight Princess was cartoony, because if you just look at the NPCs in Castle Town, they are far too realistically-proportioned to allow for any of the oddball characters in either the N64 Zeldas or Wind Waker. We can argue about definitions, but I think it is reasonable to say Zelda has been done in both a "realistic" style and a "Toon" style. The latter was done perfectly in Wind Waker, the former was done perfectly in OOT/MM, and taken too gritty in Twilight Princess.

 

And remember, no one complained about the art style in "The Legend of Zelda 2004" trailer, so I think it's fair to say that something went wrong with Twilight Princess after that point. Were the finished graphics even as good as that trailer implied? Exactly.

 

What does that even mean?

 

From what I know playing PS3 and PC games, "Next Gen" pretty much means "Same Gen" with more going on on the screen, larger levels and everything behaving physically more correct.

 

When people say they want a next-gen/current-gen Zelda, they mean with PS3/Xbox 360 tech, and there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean it would be overly cinematic or similar to the actual games on the PS3/Xbox 360. Zelda has always benefitted from hardware that was powerful at the time. In fact, this applies to all the best Zeldas - LttP, OOT, WW...

 

And Zelda games do have involving stories, it's just that (thankfully) the designers choose not to show us too many cutscenes.

[Burny]

I can't agree with these points. Firstly, because the N64 was perfectly capable of cartoony colours (look at Mario 64) - Ocarina of Time definitely went for a more subdued colour palette.

 

Not every cartoon uses only primary colors and OoT has everything but a subdued color palette. Fields, cities, the lake, characters, everything is highly colorful. It only gets dark where it needs to. That's in and around some temples, the destroyed hyrule city and at night. Majora's Mask was overall even more colorful, despite the darker theme of the game.

 

the "tour round the overworld" before the title screen is highly reminiscent of OOT's

Yes, but while in OoT it has normal lightning and colors, the TP tour just was brown, either due to the lightning and textures or because they deliberately employ a heavy filter.

 

I couldn't agree that Twilight Princess was cartoony, because if you just look at the NPCs in Castle Town, they are far too realistically-proportioned to allow for any of the oddball characters in either the N64 Zeldas or Wind Waker.

This character cast is full of complete oddballs and most of them are highly cartoony, too. It's not necessary to have only chibi characters without texture details to make a cartoon. The texture work is more detailed and the general proportions are not as "offensively" cartoony in TP, but the overall body proportions are in many cases completely out of place. Whats with (generally still overlarge) eyes in the lower third of the face? What's with legs half as long as arms? What's with the shape of the skulls? And yes, I'm talking the "humans". It's "gritty" cartoon, but nonetheless cartoon.

 

Were the finished graphics even as good as that trailer implied? Exactly.

Um, yes? Looking at the trailer and looking at TP, the graphics are exactly what was shown two years earlier. Only the world was a completely different one from the one of the trailer. If the trailer suggested the graphics would be better, than props to whoever put it together.

 

When people say they want a next-gen/current-gen Zelda, they mean with PS3/Xbox 360 tech, and there is nothing wrong with that.

And when people say that, I say that Nintendo could do the most visually advanced Zelda on that hardware and it still might be completely boring. On the other hand they could make the best Zelda ever with their current hardware if they get it right. Neither how clever their puzzles are, nor how well they build up the atmosphere will be changed by raw hardware power beyond what they already have. What's wrong with that?

 

And Zelda games do have involving stories, it's just that (thankfully) the designers choose not to show us too many cutscenes.

Yes, that's why I love them. They just don't make any sense whatsoever.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Burny

[killer kirby]

I suspect you're going OTT on purpose after hearing all the TP bashing...?

 

Oh noez I am talking about some people's favorite game and bashing it, deal with it. I put up with your shit.

 

My views on the Zelda series seems to be far different to that of most of you guys. My love for Zelda has always come down to gameplay. Never story, Zelda stories aren't even good.

 

Zelda has always been about the gameplay and the sense of adventure. Shit they could make the next Zelda game have something like 'LINK!!! GONON STOLE OUR FUCKING MILK, GO AND KICK THE SHIT OUT OF HIM' Which in the end the only way to do it is by going through the land you have never been too before.

 

What is it that people want from this game exactly? I feel like we want it more to be like 'this game on the 360' or 'that game on the PS3'

 

Go all out Nintendo, give me as much waggle for skyward sword just so I can hear more fans cry over the stupidest shit. Fuck I love this gen