[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Fierce_LiNk]

Well that's the thing, the game isn't going halfway with using it. I'm pretty sure virtually EVERY item will use it to some degree and almost every puzzle will have a motion focus.

 

It's probably going to have 5-10 times the motion focus of TP.

 

This is not inherently bad, as long as it all works it should be great.

 

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all that you're saying. In fact, if the game is built with motionplus in mind from the start (as in, it's centered around motionplus), then there's a greater chance of the game using it well.

 

The negative experiences on the wii seem to stem from the games where the motion control is "tacked on", particularly with earlier Wii games. But, games which are built around the motion controls seem to be much, much more well received. Games like Silent Hill and Red Steel 2 (even stuff like ExciteTruck) were awesome because of the fact that they built the entire game around those controls. They were integral.

[Jonnas]

Saying that this game is going over the top with the Motion Plus is like saying Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks went over the top with the touch screen

 

Actually, it's also like saying Ocarina of Time went overboard with the joystick.

[Retro_Link]

Actually, it's also like saying Ocarina of Time went overboard with the joystick.

Carried away much?

 

There comes a point where motion controls can become obtrusive. Not everything has to include an aspect of them.

 

But tbh I'm more concerned by the similarities to Twilight Princess.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Retro_Link

[Jonnas]

Carried away much?

 

You could say that, considering I haven't actually played SS, but there's no denying that it is being entirely built with the Motion Plus at its core. It's not just the obvious puzzles/enemies that give it away.

 

For example, in the trailer, one lizard enemy raises the shield above his head, to defend from Link's vertical strike. Why do you think that happens? The goal is to hit him with a low swipe, thus we can see that that enemy has been designed with the Motion Plus battle mechanics in mind. I'm guessing that the same happens with the 4-armed Stalfos, or the Moblin. And the majority of enemies, probably.

 

But tbh I'm more concerned by the similarities to Twilight Princess.

 

Honestly, I don't think TP's flaws included anything that can be seen in a trailer...

[Ronnie]

For some reason watching the first trailer, the bright colours, cartoony landscape, paintbrush stroke backgrounds all came together to give me a very Wind Waker feel to the game and I thought wow, this is a breath of fresh air after TP. Not I think Retro Link is right, this is a direct and very similar sequal to TP, and not just because it uses the same engine (although that helps)

 

Put aside all these worries, there are some very cool looking bits in the trailer, and I expect there's still lots more to we don't know about the game. I guess the next bit of info they'll release will be at E3

[James McGeachie]

I don't get the TP comparisons really.

 

Link is an adult and has a similar character design, yes. There are some similar dungeon themes, yes (but as this is focusing more on new control im not surprised the emphasis isn't going on variation here).

 

But that's like...all the evidence we have of this being a "sequel" to TP? We've been led to believe before this is "early in the timeline" and is definitely a new link. You don't need to worry about story similarities.

 

The gameplay is also going to be inherently different to TP's due to it being BUILT on motion, not shoehorned in. TP's game design was made for Gamecube. SS's game design is made for motionplus.

 

So other than this...what are the exact similarities? The only other ones I really see all stem from it being on Wii. Same visual level roughly and same type of HUD.

 

What really confuses me though is why initial similarities to TP are considered a bad thing. The problems that most people cite with TP aren't generally dungeon themes, character design and visual quality, which are the only real similarities you get here. The problems were things like lack of sidequest depth, game design falling apart towards the end and some issues with a vast but empty world map. There's literally no evidence at all of similarities to the BAD parts of TP.

[LostOverThere]

Someone said something very interesting on IGN, in regards to spotting a little something in the trailer:

 

[...] In that scene where Link is fighting that big guy with the wooden shield and he is slicing the pieces off of it, if you look at the HUD, the up direction on the D-Pad has what appears to be a harp icon. A similar instrument to what Sheik used in Ocarina of Time.

 

Perhaps the concept of a musical instrument is coming back this time around.

[Fused King]

Someone said something very interesting on IGN, in regards to spotting a little something in the trailer:

 

[...] In that scene where Link is fighting that big guy with the wooden shield and he is slicing the pieces off of it, if you look at the HUD, the up direction on the D-Pad has what appears to be a harp icon. A similar instrument to what Sheik used in Ocarina of Time.

 

Perhaps the concept of a musical instrument is coming back this time around.

 

Also, have people noticed the Harp assigned to 'Up D-pad' at 0.24... the instrument of the game?

 

[Retro_Link]

I don't get the TP comparisons really.

 

Link is an adult and has a similar character design, yes. There are some similar dungeon themes, yes (but as this is focusing more on new control im not surprised the emphasis isn't going on variation here).

 

So other than this...what are the exact similarities? The only other ones I really see all stem from it being on Wii. Same visual level roughly and same type of HUD.

 

What really confuses me though is why initial similarities to TP are considered a bad thing. The problems that most people cite with TP aren't generally dungeon themes, character design and visual quality, which are the only real similarities you get here. The problems were things like lack of sidequest depth, game design falling apart towards the end and some issues with a vast but empty world map. There's literally no evidence at all of similarities to the BAD parts of TP.

I mentioned these other similarities...

 

Vanishing Zant/Midna like character, leaving 'pixels' behind. I think this race is returning. Also, that's one aweful character design!

The design of many of the enemies like the spiders and the 'Stalfos'.

Links animation and design.

The glowing/electronic vibe to a number of the enemies has a TP Temple of Time feel.

Seems to visit many of the same themed environments, only perhaps more mixed and matched this time.

And tbh I did have a problem with the more realistic character design and enemy design (I'm not looking to fight actual spiders/skeletons etc...), the visual qualities (I didn't like the more serious toned down colour pallett), nor did I find any of the dungeons particularly exciting.

 

Twilight Princess didn't appeal to my own personal tastes, or images of a great Zelda game on a huge number of levels, it's just not what I looking for in a Zelda game. I was missing that sense of excitement and that a sense of exploration. I didn't feel a connection with the world. Epona as a sidekick was also missing character, she just felt like a random horse to me, as opposed to the trusty companion she was in OOT.

 

Someone said something very interesting on IGN, in regards to spotting a little something in the trailer:

 

a harp icon.

As did I on the previous page! Edited March 4, 2011 by Retro_Link

[Shorty]

I hate the blue text on the logo. It's so cut & pasted and suits a cutesy mini-game. It doesn't integrate with the rest of the design at all, subtle and cool like OoT is the way to go.

 

I am saying this because I have absolutely no opinion whatsoever to share on that trailer, since I am avoiding it!

[Grazza]

Regarding the problem with this looking like Twilight Princess, I agree with Jonnas that few (I didn't like the wolf or Twilight) of TP's problems could be seen in the trailers. However, the issue is that it uses the same engine (not modified for the next generation like they usually are, but exactly the same thing). Furthermore, Skyward Sword doesn't look like it features roaming landscapes. Instead, it seems just as fenced-off as Twilight Princess. Not a huge problem for me, but not what I expected on the new platform after waiting five years. It's Majora's Mask, except MM only took two years after OOT to be released.

 

My concern about motion controls in general is not whether they are tacked on (obviously not the case with Skyward Sword), but whether they fundamentally improve gameplay in the first place. It's just that, in the early days, reviewers of Wii games criticised tacked-on controls, and that they were not 1:1. Once upon a time, I too thought what the Wii needed was more accurate controls. The trouble is, that's exactly what happened and, rather than improving anything, it just shone a glaring light on the fundamental problem.

 

When I first played Wii Sports Resort in my living room, I was very impressed with the accuracy of MotionPlus. The sword moved in exactly the same way as my hand, and vice versa. Finally, Nintendo had achieved true 1:1. The same goes for Red Steel 2, which had controls that were just as good. However, when trying to play these games in my bedroom (where I play anything lengthy, like Zelda), I realised how tiresome this concept was. When your arm has to move just as much, and as forcefully, as your avatar, there is much more chance of knocking into furniture. Archery, paddling a canoe... they all require much more consideration to what you're doing in reality, rather than letting you immerse yourself with what's happening on screen.

 

The best Wii games - Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Metroid: Other M - use the pointer and very little (or no) motion control. As it stands, Skyward Sword is due to be highly anomalous - the only big Nintendo game to truly use this concept of moving yourself as much as your on-screen protagonist. If it fails, Skyward Sword will forever be this oddity that you have to break out your Wii Remote Plus for. Whilst I won't berate Nintendo for trying something new, I would like them to realise when something's past its welcome, else they may ruin the best series they've ever created.

[Retro_Link]

Have to say the IGN Rewind Theatre gets me a little more excited about the trailer and the game than I was previously.

 

Also that's not gonna be Majora's Mask unless it's gone out and possessed another Skull Kid... which is a pretty unlikely and very unimaginative thing to have happen.

 

 

 

 

Also, did Majora's Mask not even get one official trailer?!!

 

----

 

Also, the Harp in the trailer.

Could it be the Harp that eventually ends up in the hands of Sheik?

 

Edited March 4, 2011 by Retro_Link

[Dante]

 

 

 

Because of Mahito Yokota and this:

 

[Ronnie]

Yep that was an EPIC Zelda trailer, I hope Skyward Sword's final one will be as good. ie. not one that shows off every control gimmick like the latest mess of a trailer.

[LostOverThere]

As did I on the previous page!

Sorry, must have missed that.

 

Yep that was an EPIC Zelda trailer, I hope Skyward Sword's final one will be as good. ie. not one that shows off every control gimmick like the latest mess of a trailer.

Yeah. Sometimes I think Nintendo are intentionally underhyping this so we don't have a repeat of TP.

[Ronnie]

Isn't the director of Skyward Sword the same one as Minish Cap? Adds more weight to the suggestion that Vaati is the villain of the game!

[Grazza]

I reckon Nintendo are going the right way with the trailers, to be honest. TP's were a bit.... melodramatic. There's a good kind of hype and a bad type. The thing that spoiled Twilight Princess was when every preview said "You start the game in Ordon Village, then this happens, then you go to the Forest Temple, then something else happens..." We don't need to know story or village info.

[Retro_Link]

Should this be a prequel to Ocarina, it would be great to see the Shiekah fully alive in the Zelda world! Before being all but wiped out in the Hyrulean Wars, they were of course the original inhabitants of Kakariko Village, aswell as The Shadow Temple, which could see a return.

 

I got thinking about this race again, when noticed the new character in the trailer shares quite similar features... large Hylian ears, tall, white hair and of course magical abilities. However I'm ruling him out as a Sheikah because I don't think they actually possessed magical abilities like teleportation, it was more about the smoke and mirrors (/deku nuts) with them, being the ninja like race that they were.

 

Bring them back!

[killer kirby]

Yeah it sucks how Nintendo aren't giving us an epic trailer full of CGI with no gameplay in it.

 

I am loving these trailers just for the sole reason that it's showing us what the core of the gameplay is going to be like, hate it or like it I don't care, but this could truly be the next step in terms of action sword fighting in gaming, if they do it truly like I imagine then the battles are going to be very deep, deeper then any of the other Zelda games and all action game genre. And done right may change the genre all over again like what OOT did. Perhaps it's time to finally say goodbye to button mashing in rhythm and hail the mighty waggle :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Retro_Link]

I wouldn't want a trailer that goes someway to giving away the story anyway, that that Twilight Princess one above does.

 

I'm glad this is all Nintendo have shown in their trailers so far, because I think this is the last one I'm gonna watch, and I'm pretty much spoiler free and have a good idea on the gameplay, which is perfect really.

[Goron_3]

 

This trailer just screams 'Zelda' to me. I hope we get a SS one similar to it soon

[Ronnie]

 

This trailer just screams 'Zelda' to me. I hope we get a SS one similar to it soon

 

Great trailer, what a game.

[Konfucius]

Fantastic trailer and it shows all the important gameplay aspects too.

 

A problem I had with Twilight Princess was this trailer:

 

The game didn't live up to it. I assumed it would be one huge open world (like in WW) and a scenario of war where Link's endeavour are the key to victory. The game didn't feel quite as epic then.

 

Therefore I'm really happy with the SS trailers as they really show what one can expect.

[Goron_3]

Fantastic trailer and it shows all the important gameplay aspects too.

 

A problem I had with Twilight Princess was this trailer:

 

The game didn't live up to it. I assumed it would be one huge open world (like in WW) and a scenario of war where Link's endeavour are the key to victory. The game didn't feel quite as epic then.

 

Therefore I'm really happy with the SS trailers as they really show what one can expect.

 

That was before Aonuma was dragged in; the game went through development hell after that trailer was released, hence the delays that followed. Incredible because you look at that trailer and you'd think they were firmly on track.

[Grazza]

I've watched that 2004 trailer so many times, I know which bit of music should be playing where, even though I'm currently using no speakers or headphones... It's a masterpiece. Anyone can see why we were looking forward to the game so much.

 

I still say that trailer had much better graphics than the finished game. Look at how the trees in the forest are fully-modelled and three-dimensional. I'm a huge fan of Wind Waker's cel-shading, but the 2004 trailer makes an unarguable case for the realistic style too.