[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Magnus]

I like Mass Effect. I wish Zelda was more like that.

[Grazza]

He makes too many good points (IMO) to go into, but the main point of the article is that exploration and the concept of a living and breathing open-ended world has never been the same since ALTTP, and the way everything is neatly laid out perfectly for your progression through the game goes against what originally made LOZ and Zelda II such hits. It's hard to disagree with that. Skyward Sword couldn't be any more guilty of this. Ditto the obsession with having Link as the saviour of each and every area in the overworld, or him running people's errands and possibly even an over-reliance on puzzles.

 

Actually, I'd say that's exactly the mistake Skyward Sword made - making the overworlds similar to the 2D games, with narrow paths where objects would frequently block your way. When Zelda was first put into 3D, they instinctively knew 3D = exploration.

 

Ever since the Wii, though, Nintendo has been trying to merge 2D and 3D games, hence the linear nature of Super Mario Galaxy and the structure of Skyward Sword I just mentioned. Now personally, I like 2D and 3D, but they are very different and have different strengths. We need pure 2D games and pure 3D games that fully take advantage of what they are... But they are a very different thing.

 

I also enjoyed it because it basically made the point that who cares about HD visuals or control schemes, the issues plaguing Zelda are a lot more deep rooted than that. The basics need a huge shake-up.

 

He did mention the problem caused by motion controls though - namely, that it led to "Simon Says" gameplay. I liked the way a poster on 1Up put it too - the combat in Skyward Sword is like Punch Out.

 

I can't read it all in time but I'm going to get to the end when I get back from work. One point of note:

 

"One of the greatest Zelda moments occurs when he ?wakes' the drowned castle and must fight hordes of Moblins and Darknuts simultaneously."

 

By waiting til the A flashes at the top of the screen and it does all the work for you. Seriously, I never knew how people could fist such a piss-easy battle system.

 

He was absolutely right though. That is one of the best moments in Zelda history, the way you have to suddenly decide how you're going to tackle such a large task. Creep round the edges, maybe use your bow. I admit it's easy, but it's still exemplary.

[Ronnie]

Actually, I'd say that's exactly the mistake Skyward Sword made

 

Skyward Sword is the very definition of 'go here' 'do that' 'unlock this new area' 'do this' 'dungeon'. You make your way through each individual area like an obstacle course, with each new section conveniently blocked off until the story deems you ready to proceed. Exploration is so controlled, that it becomes almost meaningless. I think the points in the article transcend 2D or 3D, they make no difference in the grand scheme of things (IMO)

[EEVILMURRAY]

He was absolutely right though. That is one of the best moments in Zelda history, the way you have to suddenly decide how you're going to tackle such a large task. Creep round the edges, maybe use your bow. I admit it's easy, but it's still exemplary.

Having an option of two methods, both of which are piss easy and you consider this one of the best moments in Zelda history?

 

Large task?! C'mahn, don't bullshit me. There's about 6-7 of each Moblin and Darknut. And they're so far apart the biggest "horde" you'll be fighting "simultaneously" is about 3. I just saw a delightful walkthrough video on j00t00be, so I know this to be true.

 

Granted, it does prepare you for the horde of tedium that is the 50 level borefest of fighting.

[Ronnie]

It's a great moment in the game, regardless of difficulty.

[Jav_NE]

What gets me is how people put so much emphasis on how linearity = crap. Let's not forget that all games are linear, just to various degrees, pseudo freedom if you wish. There will never be a game where you can do anything you want - a videogame by its very nature is confined by the coding. But i digress.

 

What i wanted to say was that it is not necessarily a bad thing that SS lays out a path to the next bit. I for one find it incredibly annoying in games where i have to backtrack all over the place trying to find the right person to talk to in order to learn where to go next. That's not fun. I want to get to the next part, get to the action and progress the story. That's just me though, maybe the fact that i've never been a fan of RPGs contributes to that. I guess what i'm trying to say is that the challenge of the game isn't in navigation, it's in the action and the puzzles when you get there, and at 37 hours, i think SS more than provided on that front considering how much time wasn't wasted searching around for where to go next. Handholding during the good parts though is a bit of a pain - and i agree that there were many unneccesary Fi hints that you couldn't avoid. Help should be given if the gamer wants or needs it, which they kind of tried to do as you can ask Fi for help, i just have no idea why they added extra prompts thrown in your face without asking though.

[The Peeps]

There were puzzles?

[Jav_NE]

Dungeons and stuff, you know what i mean

[The Peeps]

Actually I did like the triforce puzzle with all the room switching. I thought that was good. Definitely gave it the right atmosphere. I don't remember any real puzzles other than that one though which is a sad thing to say for a Zelda game. The dungeons themselves weren't very puzzling... I suppose the Lanayru dungeon had some with the whole timeshift stone stuff but it was pretty much all laid out for you.

 

I think most people agree that the game is fun but it certainly isn't as good as people expect Zelda to be. Zelda is definitely in a rut right now so hopefully the next game can bring the series back to it's former glory.

[Grazza]

What gets me is how people put so much emphasis on how linearity = crap. Let's not forget that all games are linear, just to various degrees, pseudo freedom if you wish. There will never be a game where you can do anything you want - a videogame by its very nature is confined by the coding. But i digress.

 

You're right.

 

I for one would not like Zelda to go back to the NES days. A hint about where to go on the map is necessary, in my opinion, even if it's only optional. All the best games use a "lock & door" system - eg. doors in Metroid that can only be opened by Missiles, Super Missiles or Power Bombs. Or, in Zelda, objects blocking your path that can only be lifted with the right gauntlets (a sorely-missed item, IMO). That's good game design.

 

The trouble with Skyward Sword is that it didn't even let you find these locks. When you entered Hyrule Field in Ocarina of Time, you could explore to the West (Lake Hylia), the middle (Lon Lon Ranch), the North (Hyrule Castle/Town and Kakariko) or the North-East (Zora's Domain). You might not be able to get into all of them, but the game let you explore. Skyward Sword didn't even have environments built like that.

[Dog-amoto]

[Rowan]

Well I finally finished this game (well the 1st run through) so I can finally enter the spoilers thread. The ending was nice and liked the bombshell regarding Impa/Grannie. Before chasing after Ghirahim back in time I decided to collect all crystals, goddess cubes + treasures, Hylian Shield and all heart pieces. However I wish I knew what Hero Mode did before doing so because after completing the game it saved over my file There are some real highlights in the game which has probably already been mentioned but they include the collecting the Triforce, the tadtones, as well as the personality of some of the different characters like Groose, Kikwis, & Beadle. The personalities are so much better than what I can remember in OOT and TP. The Tingle doll in Zelda's room was a nice easter egg. Probably not going to run through Hero Mode for a while, but its quite sad that I'm basically done with the Wii now. Great joke near the end: The Legend fo Groose:laughing:

 

It was a bit of a shame that there weren't more significant islands in the game to explore though. Didn't like the trials either.

 

I just watched the GT review, just wondering does anyone know what's going on at 6:15 in the video where Link is diving surrounded by something in a circle? Don't remember that bit.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-zelda-skyward/723946

Edited March 21, 2012 by Rowan

[Wii]

I just watched the GT review, just wondering does anyone know what's going on at 6:15 in the video where Link is diving surrounded by something in a circle? Don't remember that bit.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-zelda-skyward/723946

 

Without seeing it I'm guessing it's when you dive over pumpkin island really high little creatures appear as you fall. You can touch off them creating a circle, if you hit them all you get 20 rupees iirc.

 

I too finished this game recently, copied the file before completing the game. I did it 100%.

 

It's my least favourite Zelda. I liked the swordplay and some of the bosses(bomb eating boss and scorpion boss especially). Groose was a good character.

 

But this game felt empty to me in some respects. Skyloft was empty, not alot to do. The whole of the sky was empty. The ground levels were reused so many times for clearing temples then back through to gather sacred water, flooded forest music notes, volcano mountain used as obstacle course to regain weapons. Twilight realm used existing levels again as obstacle courses. Bow and arrow only near the end, barely used, terrible mini game(throwing pumpkins), they all were. The harp was none existent as an instrument. Even the temple gathering the Triforce was a rehash of the other temples. There was also no sense of doom or that I felt I cared for the world or characters. I wish there was more to the game. I feel like Nintendo cheaped out as it was late in the Wii lifespan and it needed motionplus. Maybe they didn't want to take the risk by investing too heavily. I love Nintendo and Zelda more than anyone but this was not done right. Some things were different for the sake of being different. Sprinting gauge? Get rid of it. I gathered a tonne of materials and bugs for upgrades for nothing. I think the team had saved their time, ideas and effort for the next WiiU version.

 

I would call this game "The Legend of Wash, Rinse, Repeat".

Edited March 22, 2012 by Wii

[Jav_NE]

Harsh. I agree with you on some accounts, like the re-use of areas. I didn't care much for that, though most reviewers seemed to think it was creative and blah-blah. And yeah, the sky was a bit barren but Skyloft was nice. My only complaint with Skyloft was that once a side-plot had finished with a smaller character, they would then be hanging around saying the same damn thing everytime you spoke to them. This would be fine if they were in a house out of the way, but that woman and the bug-kid right by the central square - argh - i spoke to them so many times just because they were in a place i often ran past and they never had anything new to say later on in the game.

 

Regardless. It is an awesome Zelda purely for dungeon design and sword gameplay for me. Apply the swordplay mechanics to OOT and the best game ever would become untouchable in my opinion.

[Shorty]

To me, Skyloft was the second greatest town they've ever had in a Zelda game (clocktown being the first, obv). For starters, there was a house for nearly everyone to live in (I say nearly, because I'm not sure about the two guys at the cafe or in the Pumpkin bar). Not two houses, two shops and fourteen inhabitants. It also felt pretty alive, people were wandering around, they would be in different places at different points in the game, constantly have new things to talk about. The characters were all brilliant, too. Especially Beedle (his 'other side'), and the shopkeeper.

 

But the rest of the world was pretty empty. I loved it as a top notch action adventure title but it was missing some of the exploration and interaction of previous titles. It's a shame there weren't more NPC areas to visit; I was expecting to find the Gorons home or something.

[Wii]

I agree Clocktown was the best. The gap between it and Skyloft is like a chasm. I think if motionplus was applied to Twilight Princess it would further make it the best Zelda. Actually I'm not sure Majoras Mask is very close second if not top. SS had the worst minigames, just awful but the bosses as a whole were brilliant. I will say I had to center the motionplus countless times.

[Jav_NE]

I didn't care for the digging mini-game at first, but it did grow on me once i wrapped my head around the premise.

 

It is interesting how motion plus divides people's enjoyment of the game. I had no problems whatsoever, and it was a joy to play using it.

[Mokong]

Got some new custom T-Shirts from my cousin who just came back from the Philippines. One for Skyward Sword and one for Xenoblade.

 

Here's the Zelda one, remember these are airbrushed onto the shirts by hand with some quality work indeed.

 

Front

 

Back

[Wii]

I enjoyed the motionplus, I just said I had to constantly recenter it. The pumpkin throwing minigame with the bow was pure laziness and only showed up right at the end. When you consider how good the bow minigames of the other Zelda games were.

[Jav_NE]

Got some new custom T-Shirts from my cousin who just came back from the Philippines. One for Skyward Sword and one for Xenoblade.

 

Here's the Zelda one, remember these are airbrushed onto the shirts by hand with some quality work indeed.

 

Front

 

Back

 

I like the front. The back is good artwork, but i just don't like massive pictures on tees, or anything at all on the backs of them to be honest. Pretty cool though.

[Wii]

They're nice t-shirts. Like the Zelda one better than the Xenoblade one. The Xenoblade one is too plain on the front. How much did they cost?

[Mokong]

Bout 15 euro each I think... work like that would certianly cost a lot more here... if anyone did that kind of thing here anyway

 

Yeah the Xenoblade logo doesn't really have a lot going on with it I guess, but that's just the way the logo was in game anyway

[Fused King]

It's quite funny that the trned usually seems to be that once the new Zelda game comes out, most reflect on the older ones and suddenly they seem to hold more of something which made that Zelda more enjoyable.

 

Normally, I mocked this, but having finished Skyward Sword and looking back on Twilight Princess, ....here it comes..., to me the latter had a better overall atmosphere which gave the game a certain feel which I didn't 'feel' in Skyward Sword

 

I don't mean that Skyward Sword lacked the 'feel' of Twilight Princess, it just lacked its own 'feel' now that I look back on it.

 

Perhaps this game should be put on ice for a few years now, and be played in a few years or so.

It will probably look a lot more colourful then, after Retro Studios has poured some grey and brown over the new Zelda for WiiU....

Edited March 22, 2012 by Fused King

[Grazza]

It's quite funny that the trned usually seems to be that once the new Zelda game comes out, most reflect on the older ones and suddenly they seem to hold more of something which made that Zelda more enjoyable.

 

My take on this is that no one actually thought Twilight Princess was a bad game, it's just that it did have a few backwards steps for the Zelda series. Remember how furious people were with GameSpot's 8.8 score? That's a good score, it's just that people used to expect Zelda games to be outstanding.

 

From my point of view, it's not that I suddenly like Twilight Princess more than I used to, it's just that I think it's better than Skyward Sword. To me, Twilight Princess = 8/10, Skyward Sword = 7/10.

 

A big part of looking back fondly is that you can't guess what the Zelda developers will leave out next time. For example, Twilight Princess had an explorable overworld, traditional dungeon/game structure and a Day & Night cycle (to name three things). It may not have been particularly praised for them, but that's because they were Zelda staples, and quite rightly so. Who'd have thought they'd ever be removed?

 

I don't mean that Skyward Sword lacked the 'feel' of Twilight Princess, it just lacked its own 'feel' now that I look back on it.

 

Agreed, it was timid. Wind Waker felt like Nintendo had an artistic vision and took it to the max. Twilight Princess, though perhaps fanservice, also felt like an idea taken to the max. Skyward Sword felt like they didn't want to alienate either group, and thus (for the most part) was nothing special of its own.

 

Just a quick note about towns. Whereas most of TP's problems were evident with a stroll round Hyrule Castle Town, most of Skyward Sword's strengths were evident in the fantastic Skyloft! But I still think it's worth comparing, Skyloft, Castle Town and my personal favourite, Windfall Island to demonstrate how much of an effect controls and buttons (or lack of them) can have on a game.

 

Castle Town is the worst of the three. Nintendo didn't know whether players were using a GameCube pad or a Wii remote, and thus it has an awful overhead view with no nooks and crannies to explore (as well as significant loading times between sections). You never feel down there with Link. You never feel as though you're in front of the NPCs. Skyloft is much better but Nintendo still knew that no one playing it had a C-stick. The result is that it's very spread out. Now look at Windfall Island. Nintendo knew everyone playing Wind Waker was using the GameCube pad, and so it has a tight, intricate corkscrew design. The town gate was a real feature. Dwellings and abodes were full of secret tunnels and were close together enough that you could climb up the windmill and glide down to some of them with your Deku Leaf. Or, you could find all the vistas and sea views. Just a few reasons why it's the best.

 

It's funny, with all there is to Zelda, what we really like is the towns!

[James McGeachie]

Finally played and finished this game recently.

 

Handled it in such a way by which I wanted to ensure I was breaking up the main quest with sidequests regularly, so I did all the gratitude crystal stuff regularly throughout the game and finished it all before the last boss. Same goes for most minigames. I think I only need one piece of heart.

 

On that note, I thought it was a great game honestly.

 

Controls: Great for combat - I never want to push a button to fight in a 3D Zelda again, I always want to attack weak points this way. Not so good for stuff like flying, but not to the point where I wasnt enjoying it.

 

Story: Other than the fact I don't like them retconning/making Minish cap's story more awkward (even though it was the same director), the story was pretty good. Simple, but effective start to a legend.

 

Characters (plot and NPC): Far more personality than TP and probably the best feeling of the game world being "alive" since Majora's Mask. I felt like Skyloft was a town. I didnt mind it being the only main town area, it is one of the best. Majora's Mask of course will always be unrivalled.

 

Sidequests: None of these were a chore to me, because you can make them all pretty easy with dowsing and the like. I like bug collecting in games and liked it here. Treasure system was nice too. Minigames were mostly fun and I think struck the right balance in terms of difficulty. I got a perfect clear on the beginner and intermediate Thrill Digger game! Hooray for Zelda Minesweeper.

 

Visuals: Once I adjusted to playing a Wii game again (aka "ugh, jaggies), the game was pretty beautiful. Some moments like the sand sea area reminded me that Nintendo can still be truly creative with aesthetic design, despite their self imposed limitations. Character designs were good all around, more personality than TP for the most part. Ghirahim was fabulous looking.

 

Length: Well, my main quest being broke up with sidequests regularly was like 35-40 hours odd, so it felt pretty long and epic to me. Don't really care about Dungeon quantity or whatever, felt like I did my fare share of dungeon exploring.

 

Gameplay design: Items were used far more consistently than most other Zeldas, which was cool. None of the glaring faults of TP where items like the spinner were criminally underused. Boss fights were as a whole pretty epic and rewarding, though I'll admit, they generally didnt feel quite as dramatic as TP (maybe the lack of that boss kill music). Dungeon puzzles were all pretty nice, though admittedly never very challenging. Last dungeon was a bit of a mess to be honest. Harp was absolute bullshit.

 

Music: "Nice", but not the best Zelda compositions by a long shot. One of those games where the music really has the most effect when it's a nostalgic remix.

 

Some summary thoughts:

 

I haven't read this thread, but I think I know a lot of people's complaints? Is one repetition? See, I think the trials stuff was maybe perhaps not massively "creative", but in terms of atmosphere it's different enough that I never felt it was just a lazy chore, I liked the intimidating feel, like the phantom stuff in the handheld games. Other things like the stealth section brought back memories of Wind Waker for me (good thing in my eyes) and the tadtones or whatever, although initially did seem to be a chore, actually felt pretty fun to do.

 

I can see an argument for the game having tons of "padding", but I think it's an issue of perspective. If you're having fun actually playing the game, most of this stuff feels like good content. Like, I just loved being in the game world for the most part and didnt resent any of that stuff.

 

On the game structure - Im happy with the backtracking formula. Hell, I'm a massive Metroid fan. Okay, this may be "linear backtracking", to an extent, but it never really felt that I was stuck on a linear path in the game because I was actively choosing to do lots of sidequests, hunt for goddess cubes, play minigames, etc. I guess if I had just ran through the main quest, it would've felt differently.

 

Overall, I think this is on the same quality level as most 3D Zelda games. I'm in the minority perhaps where I've never really been disappointed with any of them. I didn't play Ocarina of Time though until years after its release and have no massive nostalgia for it. Perhaps because of that, I dont hold 3D Zelda as a whole to an unattainable standard. I have just as much nostalgia for Twilight Princess as I do for Wind Waker and for MM and OOT. I feel they're all great games and Twilight Princess didn't disappoint me at all honestly.

 

Where do I rank the game for me though? Honestly, no idea. I cant make that judgement, because I dont have nostalgia for it. All the other 3D Zeldas are so fucking far in the past now (5 years is a LONG time in our life) that I'm nostalgic as hell about them. Obvously Skyward Sword cant initially compete with that. All I can say is, I definitely loved the game.