[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Kav]

Archery in TP on the Wii was fast, accurate and effective.

 

Nintendo talk about not letting technology get in the way of the gaming experience, I just worry that's exactly what's going to happen with archery in SS.

 

I really do think the key word in your post is "experience".

 

However I feel that the experience may well be hightened as a result of the aiming in Skyward Sword.

I've always found myself completely immersed in Zelda games and with the way you control the items in Skyward Sword I only feel that I would get more immersed into the gaming world, thus hightening my experience.

 

In Twilight Princess I preferred the swordplay of moving the Wiimote to buttons, for me it immersed me into the game world even more than I usually would be. I'd think that Skyward Sword would do so even more!

[Emasher]

I honestly doubt they'd ever release a Zelda game with blatantly bad controls. Minor issues maybe, but I doubt controls will be considered an issue in the final game. Especially seeing as most of the press have said the controls work well.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Is the game coming with Wii Motion Plus [PLEASE] or are we having to shell out some more monies?

[Ashley]

They'll probably do a standard version and one that comes with for £10-15 more.

[Ronnie]

I honestly doubt they'd ever release a Zelda game with blatantly bad controls. Minor issues maybe, but I doubt controls will be considered an issue in the final game. Especially seeing as most of the press have said the controls work well.

 

 

There's a difference between 'bad controls with issues' and 'works fine but is annoying and a hassle'

[killer kirby]

There's a difference between 'bad controls with issues' and 'works fine but is annoying and a hassle'

 

And even then they will not be annoying.

 

Your posts remind me of the days just before TP release and how news came in you had to swing the Wiimote to make Link swing his sword rather then pressing B like it was originally. That little bit of news made so many people on different forums go ape shit insane about how the controllers were going to be awful.

[Ronnie]

I'm not saying the controls are going to be awful, stop getting so defensive about everything.

 

I'm saying that given the simplicity of using TP's bow and arrow, going to a system that's more complicated to achieve the same result may be counter-productive in the long run. Obviously who knows how it will turn out, but for me personally, it's a slight worry. Hopefully gimmicks won't get in the way of gaming and my fears won't end up being justified.

[Ville]

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Edited September 13, 2021 by Ville

[The Peeps]

I'm not saying the controls are going to be awful, stop getting so defensive about everything.

 

I'm saying that given the simplicity of using TP's bow and arrow, going to a system that's more complicated to achieve the same result may be counter-productive in the long run. Obviously who knows how it will turn out, but for me personally, it's a slight worry. Hopefully gimmicks won't get in the way of gaming and my fears won't end up being justified.

 

I think you're right, using the bow and arrow in Zelda like it's used in Wii Sports Resort is a bit more complicated and time-consuming but ultimately more immersive and realistic. I think any bow and arrow puzzles will be better off for it but it may reduce the bow's usefulness as a quick draw weapon in any open battle areas

[Pookiablo]

I think you're right, using the bow and arrow in Zelda like it's used in Wii Sports Resort is a bit more complicated and time-consuming but ultimately more immersive and realistic. I think any bow and arrow puzzles will be better off for it but it may reduce the bow's usefulness as a quick draw weapon in any open battle areas

 

I'm completely lost on this. Surely, if you need to use it in a jiffy, you just Z-target and press the button and it auto-aims for you like all other 3D Zelda games (unless this has been removed?).

 

Otherwise, I'm sure the game will be built so that areas where you are required to use "quick" free-aim, the game will give you a reasonable amount of time in which to do so. A time which is neither too long nor too short.

[D_prOdigy]

I'm completely lost on this. Surely, if you need to use it in a jiffy, you just Z-target and press the button and it auto-aims for you like all other 3D Zelda games (unless this has been removed?).

 

Otherwise, I'm sure the game will be built so that areas where you are required to use "quick" free-aim, the game will give you a reasonable amount of time in which to do so. A time which is neither too long nor too short.

 

Mmm, we've no reason to believe this won't be the case. The game does still have lock-on, so I can't see the bow being anything but easy and convenient in combat.

 

I still think I'd opt to do it WSR-style, though. Realism all the way.

[Pookiablo]

Mmm, we've no reason to believe this won't be the case. The game does still have lock-on, so I can't see the bow being anything but easy and convenient in combat.

 

I still think I'd opt to do it WSR-style, though. Realism all the way.

 

Word. Nailing some fucker right in the eye with your 1337 bow skillz would be so awesome!

[Kav]

I don't want "simple" controls, I want immersive controls!

 

Motion control, if done correctly, over button presses anyday!

[Grazza]

There's a difference between 'bad controls with issues' and 'works fine but is annoying and a hassle'

 

Well said.

 

I'm not going to go on about this, but there is no doubt that the controls will work well. We all understand what happened at E3. The controls in Red Steel 2 work well - that doesn't make them fun.

 

And yeah, people worried about motion controls affecting Twilight Princess in a negative way... because that's exactly what they did. That's not to say they didn't work, but neither version of TP had controls as good as Wind Waker's. (The GC version was not a true GameCube game. It was the Wii version but controllable with a GameCube pad - there's a difference.)

[Pookiablo]

Well said.

 

I'm not going to go on about this, but there is no doubt that the controls will work well. We all understand what happened at E3. The controls in Red Steel 2 work well - that doesn't make them fun.

 

And yeah, people worried about motion controls affecting Twilight Princess in a negative way... because that's exactly what they did. That's not to say they didn't work, but neither version of TP had controls as good as Wind Waker's. (The GC version was not a true GameCube game. It was the Wii version but controllable with a GameCube pad - there's a difference.)

 

Yeah, but Red Steel was made by a bunch of retards and not Nintendo. And motion control can be very fun - people go on this argument that a button or stick is "easier" or "more intuitive" as it can do the same thing without the pointless, tiresome hassle of waggling a remote but the point is, it's meant to be different. The challenge itself is in the controls, they work because they add an additional level of depth that require learning and mastery that, if done correctly by the developer, require a much better understanding than simple button-bashing. You need to learn the smallest nuances of the controls in order to master them, something which is not achieved through standard controls. Anything that gets me closer to having to take up actual archery lessons, and hence requires an inkling of skill, is more welcome than some lame cursor on my screen with about as much depth as a 3DS version of Carnival Games with the 3D filter turned all the way down.

 

And why do you people bum Wind Waker so goddamn much? It's a sub-rate Zelda game compared to the 64 versions. I'm just baiting so don't take that last point seriously. But Twilight Princess was virtually identical to previous iterations of Zelda in format, except you had to swing your lazy ass arm around for a few sword fights and point it at the screen from time to time. Plus, you had the opportunity to buy the GC copy but you chose the Wii one. And the TP was a true GC game, it was announced for GC long before any mention of Zelda coming to Wii.

 

And there's just as many people who argue that motion controls worked for TP as there are people who argued against it. The point is, as you righty say, to move on. It will work, it's Nintendo, they've got the controls right for game since Super Mario Bros. for crying out loud.

[Grazza]

And why do you people bum Wind Waker so goddamn much? It's a sub-rate Zelda game compared to the 64 versions. I'm just baiting so don't take that last point seriously.

 

Oh no, it really was awesome. Fair enough if you don't like it, but don't underestimate it. It is much, much more technically and artistically advanced than any Zelda before or since.

 

But Twilight Princess was virtually identical to previous iterations of Zelda in format, except you had to swing your lazy ass arm around for a few sword fights and point it at the screen from time to time.

 

I'm not lazy, it's not about that at all. Games should be about enjoyment, and it is quite simply less enjoyable to swing my forearm, knocking into furniture, than it is to use a traditional, wired controller. The wireless controller runs out of battery power at a ridiculous rate.

 

Plus, you had the opportunity to buy the GC copy but you chose the Wii one.

 

Of course I didn't! Believe me, I'd been following the game for years and pre-ordered the GameCube version. I only bought the Wii version a few years later when I found it for £15.

 

And the TP was a true GC game, it was announced for GC long before any mention of Zelda coming to Wii.

 

Again, I'm well aware of that, trust me! It was once a true GameCube game, but was modified to work on the Wii. This modified version was then ported back to the GameCube, hence why the shield can no longer be drawn with the R-trigger and cannot be controlled with the analogue stick. This was in the game and was taken out.

 

I take your points in the spirit you made them, but I did want to address them.

[Pookiablo]

 

Again, I'm well aware of that, trust me! It was once a true GameCube game, but was modified to work on the Wii. This modified version was then ported back to the GameCube, hence why the shield can no longer be drawn with the R-trigger and cannot be controlled with the analogue stick. This was in the game and was taken out.

 

 

I'm curious, where did you get the information about it being ported back from? I'm not disputing it, I was just always under the impression that it was imported one way and then screen-flipped (and the controls-modified) so that the sword was in the right arm rather than the left.

[Cube]

I'm not lazy, it's not about that at all. Games should be about enjoyment, and it is quite simply less enjoyable to swing my forearm, knocking into furniture, than it is to use a traditional, wired controller. The wireless controller runs out of battery power at a ridiculous rate.

 

How much are you swinging the remote? You only need a little flick of the wrist.

 

About the battery life...I've defeated bowser in SMG (61 stars), played through HOTD:Overkill, killed a few hours on Red Steel 2 and played a bit of some other games and I'm still on my first set of batteries.

 

I personally found flicking the remote for sword fighting to be enjoyable, even if the control was limited to a simple shake (rather than anything directional) as it was simply a GameCube game with Wii controls.

[Grazza]

I'm curious, where did you get the information about it being ported back from? I'm not disputing it, I was just always under the impression that it was imported one way and then screen-flipped (and the controls-modified) so that the sword was in the right arm rather than the left.

 

I'm basing this on the playable demo (for journalists) from 2005. The orientation of the game world was the same as the GameCube's (with Link left-handed). In that way, the GC game is the "true version".

 

On the other hand, the game was then modified to work on the Wii. The controls were simplified and this was ported back to the GameCube version. If you don't like to think of it as a port, think of it as "forced convergence".

 

The easiest way to understand TP is "Started on GameCube, Ported to Wii, Ported back to GameCube". Again, they were developed at the same time, but the GameCube version had to "get in line" with how the Wii version was developing.

 

I'm afraid I'm still bitter about this. Believe me, no matter how good or bad Skyward Sword is, it'll never be as controversial as Twilight Princess.

 

How much are you swinging the remote? You only need a little flick of the wrist.

 

Even for Red Steel 2? The game tells you to do the whole movement, using your forearm. I'd agree that simple pointing and tilting is fine.

 

This is the irony of motion controls - the better they get, the more it's clear they are not the way forward! I could cope if all pads had tilting and pointing in the future, but I'm hoping the Red Steel/Skyward Sword level of interaction will come to be seen as a misguided time for the games industry.

 

We'll see!

Edited July 3, 2010 by Grazza
Automerged Doublepost

[Pookiablo]

This is the irony of motion controls - the better they get, the more it's clear they are not the way forward! I could cope if all pads had tilting and pointing in the future, but I'm hoping the Red Steel/Skyward Sword level of interaction will come to be seen as a misguided time for the games industry.

 

We'll see!

 

Your initial point is exactly the same when it comes to graphical improvement in games, they provide very little in terms of a new experience. 3D is old, it was done a long time ago. Why is motion control misguided? Sure it's far from perfect but it provides a new experience and surely that's what gaming is about. Games sucked last gen on the Cube in particular because they did very little beyond that of what the 64 and PS1 had initially done. This gen, aside from motion controls, we've seen the rise of a more prominent role for online gaming on a home console.

 

I find it difficult to follow your argument against motion controls. It's a different approach of deepening the interactive relationship between the player and the game. As I said earlier, it's not perfect and is in need of refinement. But ultimately it, with improvement, can offer a lot more than standard controllers. It might makes certain in-game activities more tricky or time-consuming but we should be praising this - it adds challenge and as I said earlier, a new aspect of gaming that we must learn to comprehend and master.

[killer kirby]

Funny fact,Since playing Twilight Princess on the Wii, I can't stand pressing buttons to swing a sword in a Zelda game of the 3D ones, gets so boring.

 

And I hope Nintendo go way full on with motion in all Zelda games from now on with no options for a classic controller.

 

[...]

Why no options? You want motion, ok, but let others who might want classic have them too.

 

I don't think they'll include the option myself, but yours is a very selfish statement. As long as there can be options, I'm all for options, so everyone can enjoy what they want.

[Dante]

Destruction - The Daily Hotness: Seriously, Zelda fans

 

So its cool to bash Zelda fans?

[Burny]

Why no options?

 

Because there's no use in options, once motion controls have been fully embraced in the game's design.

 

It's not a matter of just mapping a certain motion to a button press. When the exact angle at which a motion is executed matters, there are already problems translating it to buttons and analog sticks. It might work well enough for horizontal and vertical strikes, as seen in the SS demo, but for anything in between they'd have to implement a special system that does not exists so far.

 

Destruction - The Daily Hotness: Seriously, Zelda fans

 

So its cool to bash Zelda fans?

 

Problem is: He is absolutely right. Also he doesn't bash Zelda fans in general, but the general kind of fan that always knows better than everybody else, including the creators, what a sequel to their favorite game has to look like (preferably dark and err.. "mature"!).

Edited July 4, 2010 by Burny

[LostOverThere]

Why no options? You want motion, ok, but let others who might want classic have them too.

Skyward Sword seems to be specifically built around precise motion controls. For instance, swinging the sword at certain specific angles to kill certain enemies. You can't really do this effectively with a conventional controller.

 

Although I do agree with you, options in general are a good thing.