stuwii Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 But its the most prominent and well known. Oh and the arseholes not only hate the "other side" but they hate what they consider foreigners. When I moved here (northern ireland) we had to be quite stealth about it because my father was in the RAF (posted from Scotland) We had to get the car reg plate changed to a local one, phone is to this day ex-directory, and doesn't appear when you ring someone. It was quite scary. Northern Ireland's a bit neither here nor there. Dunno if independence would be a good thing really. Things here (in my area anyway) seem to have settled. If we rejoined the south, Its pretty certain that the troubles will multiply tenfold. Why the fuck would you move to a war zone
Raining_again Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Are you native Cornish (ie were you born there?)? It's always interesting to recieve others opinions. Exactly. I think it was a while back that an advocate for the Falklands Islands independence (or secession to Argentina), on this very forum, was comparing the situation to Tibet. They failed to see why people here complained about Tibet's invasion when we had control over a group of islands that Argentina wanted. They also failed to see that the Falkland Islands were a British overseas territory populated by Brits that enjoy a range of freedoms from religion to democracy whereas Tibet was an unlawful invasion of a province where the population were Tibetans, and are suppressed on issues like religion and democracy. If no one's being suppressed or oppressed, then independence is mostly redundant, especially in the case of Scotland, where most supporters for indepedence are just nationalists with too much pride. Agree with it all. Kudos dude. This is what I think I was trying to say earlier. Stuwii.. wtf... srsly... MY DAD WAS IN THE FORCES.
mcj metroid Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Funny, I love the security of living in a small country far away from any trouble. What about the Northern Irish? Seem more of a candidate for independence than Cornwall. I never knew Cornwall had ever been independent or desired too. haha you said that in northern ireland chances are a lot of them would kill you Northern Ireland will never happen.. The very suggestion of it would restart a war more or less.
Raining_again Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 haha you said that in northern ireland chances are a lot of them would kill you Northern Ireland will never happen.. The very suggestion of it would restart a war more or less. *nods* Pretty much! I'm no way against Ireland becoming a whole for any reason other than this. I have no issues with people from the south. Love the accent
mcj metroid Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Basically the sole reason of the troubles was catholics v protestants. no religion had nothing to do with it..(note it's the same fucking religion really) it's al about land.. it always is.. nationalist and unionist.. People from the north would know a hell of a lot more about this than I would now mind you.
Shino Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 haha you said that in northern ireland chances are a lot of them would kill you Northern Ireland will never happen.. The very suggestion of it would restart a war more or less. *nods* Pretty much! I'm no way against Ireland becoming a whole for any reason other than this. I have no issues with people from the south. Love the accent I think something has to happen for that kind of mentality to change. I've watched tv programs about it were foreign immigrants get treated like trash just walking down the street.
mcj metroid Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I think something has to happen for that kind of mentality to change. I've watched tv programs about it were foreign immigrants get treated like trash just walking down the street. I'm sure sure of the how much of that would be true... That sort of happens everywhere.. I always found people in the north to be... well colder most anyway.. it really is a totally different country to the south. the mentality should change though. But it probably won't been going on for nearly 100 years now the troubles really.
Raining_again Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I think something has to happen for that kind of mentality to change. I've watched tv programs about it were foreign immigrants get treated like trash just walking down the street. but the thing is while there are these people around, their children will learn that ignorant behaviour and it will continue forever. Passed through the generations Its disgusting behaviour. One of my college friends got his head kicked in when he walked into the wrong territory (which also happened to be outside a police station) and he now has a couple of plates in his jaw. Wasn't able to eat solids for a year.
Mundi Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Personally I would say just stick it together but I know so little about the area and the politics over there. As far as the conflicts in Ireland the only thing I know related to it was that Michael Collins was a pretty good film. Which makes me pretty stupid about all this. Funny, I love the security of living in a small country far away from any trouble. Amen Oh hey guys how´s it going down there :Þ
martinist Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I'm not really for this whole indaprendance thing, its alot easier just being one big couintry >_>:
Jimbob Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 It seems totally pointless for any of them places to become independent. Past Kings/Queens have fought tirelessly to bring these countries into one to form the United Kingdom and look how well that is.
S.C.G Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Are you native Cornish (ie were you born there?)? It's always interesting to recieve others opinions. I am indeed, 100% Cornish through and through... *chews on a long piece of grass whilst drinking still farm-brewed cider* *Disclaimer - the statement highlighted in asterix's may not actually be completely truthful, indeed at time of writing pasta was chewed and cider was drunk but of the sparkling Olde English variety. Its disgusting behaviour. One of my college friends got his head kicked in when he walked into the wrong territory (which also happened to be outside a police station) and he now has a couple of plates in his jaw. Wasn't able to eat solids for a year. That's disgraceful I can't believe that someone would do that to another person just because of where they come from, it's inhuman and sickening >< and now your friend has to live with those plates in his jaw due to the ignorant attitudes and frankly feral actions of the people who did that to him. :/
McPhee Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Welsh independance? Not a chance. It's a daydream thought up by nationalists, it's not in the slightest bit viable. Scottish independance on the other hand is very much possible though other than the Scottish Parliament having more control and it's place on the world stage i'm really not sure what advantages it'll give. Scotland's economy is strong enough for it to support itself and in theory it *might* result in better public spending, it all depends on how successful they are at broadening their economy once independant. To be honest i've never quite understood why it's only the Scots who want Scotland to be independant. Thanks the the awkward way the Union is set up Scotland has a lot of power over England. More money goes in to Scotland than goes out of it (to the extent where Scotland isn't actually in recession, unlike the rest of the UK) and Scotish MPs sitting in Westminster have power over English laws but not the other way around (the West Lothian Question, the MP of West Lothian can vote on matters affecting (as an example) Blackburn, Lancashire, but the MP of Lancashire can't vote on matters concerning Blackburn, West Lothian). If it does happen i feel sorry for England and Wales really. It'll be England that foots the rather costly bill to brake up the Union (the Scottish parliament is in control of matters of Union, it regained this right in 1707 when the countries merged. I somehow doubt Scotland will be paying much and anything they do pay will be from stockpiled English money). It seems totally pointless for any of them places to become independent. Past Kings/Queens have fought tirelessly to bring these countries into one to form the United Kingdom and look how well that is. Not quite how it went about. James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne and then brought about the "Union of the Crowns", forever sealing England (by 'England' I mean what we now know as England, Wales and Ireland) and Scotland under one Monarch. The nations remained seperate, they just had the same Monarch. The union came about a long while after. Scotland was desperate to be able to compete with Europe's great trade Empires of England, France, Spain and Austria but they didn't have the resources to do so. There were very few valuable exports from the country and they had no colonies worth mentioning. They came up with the hair brained scheme of creating a canal through Panama (brilliant idea but too early, it took another few hundred years before it was managed successfully) to give them a fast trade route between Europe and Asia. It failed badly, losing them £400,000 (a fifth of the county's GDP). In a worse state than ever they went to England with the 'Acts of Union' and somehow persuaded them to sign. The result? Scotland got to rape England financially and politically for hundreds of years afterwards. England only signed up because Queen Anne was Scottish, meaning Scotland had the power to choose her successor. England was simply worried that Scotland might try and whore the position to other contries for money and other priveliges. Edited June 20, 2009 by McPhee
My Buttons are Magic! Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Why the fuck would you move to a war zone why the fuck would you say something so stupid?! *am proud to be from northern ireland... **nb i dont know much about why the troubles started (ok so on further thought i kinda do - but i dont know specificis - i tend to stay out of stuff like that) ***i dont even know why the 12th july is really celebrated (bad protestant!)... ****really dont want the troubles to start again.... (the shooting in antrim n stuff scared the crap outta me) i consider myself irish even tho technically im british... or northern irish?! ... right before my internet connection diets on me... EDIT 2!! so technically im not too bothered about the seperation from the south or joining the mainland.... .. i dont feel a connection to the south of ireland (dont know any irish, wouldnt call my children silly irish names)... but i dont feel a mighty connection to the mainland... so im happy being northern ireland EDIT 3!!! obviously my internet connection died on me it didnt diet :P.... .. and im not northern ireland.. im northern irish.... AND...dont people say stupid comments because i dont like swearing but i will :p Edited June 20, 2009 by My Buttons are Magic!
The fish Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 no religion had nothing to do with it..(note it's the same fucking religion really) I reckon it is, actually - Ireland is very, very Catholic, even in its constitutaion.
mcj metroid Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I reckon it is, actually - Ireland is very, very Catholic, even in its constitutaion. That's the south.. and no we're not VERY catholic.. yes generally but not really enforced.. most young people don't bother going to mass even.. about the same as england really.. but in the north is a protestant majority however.. but protestants usually = unionists and catholic = nationlists.. But it's a secretarian thing and I really don't think religion had anything to do with it... It's an excuse it's like everytime there is a war.. religion rarely has anything to do with anything.. Again though I would be glad to be pointed out wrong and I don't know much about this stuff and only stating what I understand.
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Probably asking for trouble here but I'd like independence for Scotland. It might be hard to understand but it's alot of little things. Businesses, politics, armed forces even Scottish tv is controlled down south. Now it's getting to the point where the few Scottish shows that do play are getting pulled off now because England has cut the budgets. England National Anthems playing in stores during world cups(even if Scotland's qualified aswell) our armed forces are not our armed forces, they are controlled by London if we ever went to war. So even if we don't agree we obliged to fight. The north oil reserves which make a ton(bout 10 billion a year I think) then we are seen as the blame for the entire NHS budget problems for the whole union. The plans to build a whole bunch of nuclear power plants up here when Scotland is one of the best places in Europe to harvest green energy from tides and hydro-electric plants, enough for 1/4 of Europe after a quick google. (and pay for the nuke plants I might add even though we do not want them. We are to pay 76 million *Edit sorry actually it's 20 billion to start with and up to 76 in total. quite a different sum altogether* because the Americans want Trident renewed even though it fckin poisons our water!) And the history is quite thick too, the uninformative "Braveheart" aside. We were invaded, a desire for England to rule all of the British Isles and even after peace treaties were signed England still invaded years later regardless due to feeling "humiliated" at Scots have their independence(not making it up humiliated English lords demanded another invasion). In the end it's also debatable that Scots in power were bribed to bless and force the Union, even though it is suggested that the majority of the public was outspoken against it. Rabbie Burns even wrote a poem about it. So the root of our Union seems to lie in dishonesty and forceful tactics which doesn't help things. Now with wars and politicians/bankers running amok with our(and yours I'm not saying that!) money it seems like a good idea to be ourselves and leave us the hell alone, all we wanted in the first place! Another factor is that right now Scotland is more of a joke country than anything. We are led to believe we are our own country and have real say/power but really we have no control over anything. The only thing we get is a big fancy faux parliament that sits around and probably has no more say in getting chewing gum off the streets than any real legislations or decisions. London handles our big decisions but then what do a bunch of guys in Westminster know about Scottish life? One last thing. England is arm in arm with America. The biggest warmongering nation on the planet. That scares me. Criticism of Iraq/Afganistan is quite outspoken here, if we had a choice, a vote I don't think Scotland would have went to that sham war. The Scottish debt aswell, from all that oil that goes down south we get back the smallest fraction yet the Scottish debt to England rises every year. Hows that then? That's my 2 cents guys say what you want. TBH alot of ignorance is part of it aswell. People bashing Irish, Welsh and Scottish independence as a joke because we couldn't handle it is not only hurtful, demeaning to a society but probably racist. Why would we want to be part of a nation like that? The government trying to quell independence and even trying to work around the North sea oil reserves so that if independence did come England would own them does not instil a great deal of respect for the Union. Edited June 21, 2009 by mariosmentor Corrected Trident Cost. Approximations on research obviously.
Haden Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Cornwall independent? The fuck? Their economy would utterly bomb, Wales and Scotland would be bad enough but Cornwall dear god. Having to maintain their own bureaucracy, state services and army would kill them. They are already in decline as it is. Dont want to bash the place though very nice to visit and has a cool flag.
Paj! Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Just...please. No. There's no need for Scotland. It just makes it more likely for war between England and Scotland more likely.
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 What the hell? Why would we war?! Only wars today are wars of profit, and I think it's fair to say that Scotland doesn't have the forces anyway for a war on England, so we wouldn't start anything. Would you?
Paj! Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Not saying that a war is gonna happen, but it just pointlessly divides us, were there a war. We're just stronger as one, aren't we? I admitedly don't know all the facts, but it just seems a bit nitpicky as an idea, Scottish idependance, and more just bitterness about events long before anyone was born.
Haden Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 This isnt the 19th century there wouldn't be a war. But Scotland would be fucked economically.
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 And I take it South Ireland is in all sorts of hell and pain right now at not being in the union? Ack nvm, everybody here seems to be hardcore unionists.
Shino Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 No country gets fucked economically just for being small. What I find rather disturbing in mariosmentor post is the complete lack of national identity on what a de facto country known as the UK and not Scotland or England. Its everyone's money and I believe the votes in Scotland are worth as much as the votes in England so it works much like any country with several regions.
mariosmentor Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) London(Corrected, I generalized England when really I only experienced London's attitude to Scottish pound) won't even accept Scottish money. So much for that lol. But yea lack of national identity as British you mean? I consider myself Scottish, and a majority in Scotland do. We have very much our own national identity, heritage and culture. We are considered our own country you know, even if it doesn't feel like it. Why is that paticularly disturbing? Btw I don't want this to be interpreted as a hate England thing ignorance on either side is just as bad. My cuz's are English I could never hate them :P Edited June 21, 2009 by mariosmentor
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