Dyson Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Well fuck, I decided to read up on this thread and the argument between Daft and Flinky has me swaying two ways. ** On one hand I totally agree that these protests are bullshit and really don't change anything - not to mention all credibility is thrown out the window the moment the protests turn to violence and rioting. On top of that I agree with what Flinky was saying about leadership - his example of getting an unqualified teacher to teach young kids really struck home and made sense. I believe we need someone in charge who knowshow to fix the economy - this person might not exist but Gordon Brown will be damned if he isn't trying. I also thought that Daft managed to void a lot of his points by going personal. We're not all against you here and I know I'd be offended if you replied to my post in that way. On the other hand, I do believe that it's a good thing all these people are getting together and trying to get things changed, but I just can't escape the feeling that if you had one person or one million it wouldn't change a thing. At the end of the day, the system isn't going to change because a bunch of people decided to mill around in London throwing a tantrum. Honestly? The only people with the power to make things change are, ironically, the people in power right now. **Edit: Scratch that, I realised in writing this post that I'm not really swaying between them at all, in fact, I found myself siding to one side quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Just a lot of greasy soap dodgers out for a day trip... "Establishment, establishment, you always know what's best" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 This thread made me lol. I would never go to a protest for the sake of protesting. You go to take drugs, get drunk and throw things! If anyone has the spare man-hours to wander around with a sign and block traffic all day then they could be spending that time a lot more efficiently to get their cause known. I don't blame the banks for the recession, I blame the stupid people who borrowed and borrowed and never thought the money would end. The idiots who didn't know that this was how money worked, and yet they didn't think it was their responsibility to know how money works. People need to grow the fuck up and stop blaming this mechanical, demonised government for everything that goes wrong because it's us that make life difficult. We all want some messianic leader who can resolve every single one of our spasmodic problems, and whinge and whine when nobody appears to be doing anything. Let me tell you something; just because you don't have the guts, balls or brains to run this country doesn't mean that nobody else does. We elect a party of representatives to look over us, so just sit back and let them look over us! So we brits don't have the charisma of Obama, doesn't mean our leaders are doing such an awful job. Not everything has to be a conspiracy so get some fucking perspective and go have an ice cream, because we're just monkeys with a bigger brain, not saints or angels. Protests are not cool. They're a waste of time and do nothing but annoy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fex Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 These pictures are awesome http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/apr/01/g20-protest?picture=345366776 It looks like it was a hell of a good day. I just wish Rage Against The Machine were there throwing out some tunes, to get the blood pumping. I'm glad RBS got smashed up. And why the fuck shouldn't people be pissed? Stupid bankers who lent too much money have made this recession much worse than I would have been. If I had lost my job, been declared bankrupt and had no home to live in. I'd be down there making my point. The only people I feel sorry for is the Police. Their job is to keep the peace but they are at the forefront of this. I saw one clip on the news where protesters had managed to surround one police on his own and were taunting him, he must have been pooping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I believe in the power of love. It don't need money. Don't take fame. Don't need no credit card to ride this train. Which is probably best because of the economic situation. I think the money those protesters paid to get to London could've been put to a better use, like buying Price Crunch shit at Morrison's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) G20 protests: Riot police, or rioting police? The trouble-makers are out in force again. Dressed in black, their faces partly obscured, some of them appear to be interested only in violent confrontation. It's almost as if they are deliberately raising the temperature, pushing and pushing until a fight kicks off. But this isn't some disorganised rabble: these people were bussed in and are plainly acting in concert. There's another dead giveaway. They are all wearing the same slogan: Police. The police have been talking up violence at the G20 protests for weeks. They briefed journalists and companies in the City of London about the evil designs of the climate campaigners intending to demonstrate there, but refused to let the campaigners attend the briefings and put their own side of the story. They also rebuffed the campaigners when they sought to explain to the police what they wanted to do. The way officers tooled themselves up in riot gear and waded into a peaceful crowd this afternoon makes it look almost as if they were trying to ensure that their predictions came true. Their bosses appear to have failed either to read or to heed the report by the parliamentary committee on human rights last week, about the misuse of police powers against protesters. "Whilst we recognise police officers should not be placed at risk of serious injury," the report said, "the deployment of riot police can unnecessarily raise the temperature at protests." But there has always been a conflict of interest inherent in policing. The police are supposed to prevent crime and keep the streets safe. But if they are too successful, they do themselves out of a job. They have a powerful interest in exaggerating threats and, perhaps, an interest in ensuring that sometimes these threats materialise. This could explain what I've seen at one protest after another, where peaceful demonstrations turn into ugly rucks only when the police attack. The wildly disproportionate and unnecessary violence I've sometimes seen the police deploy could scarcely be better designed to provoke a reaction. If this is so, they lose nothing. They might get the occasional rap over the knuckles from MPs or the police complaints commission. It doesn't seem to bother them. By planting the idea in the public mind that the streets could erupt into catastrophic violence at any time, were it not for the thick blue line thrown around even the mildest protest, they establish the need for a heavy police presence. While the public lives in fear, no government dares to cut the policing budget. Edited April 2, 2009 by Daft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Can't remember the last time I read such a biased article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Can't remember the last time I read such a biased article. Don't read the papers much, I take it? This is the other extreme of what the media had been battering on about for the past couple weeks. I agree with most of it bar the penultimate paragraph which is just sycophantic tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That bloke with the claret eminating from him, I saw him in action. He kept throwing himself at the police barricade. Prick deserved what he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 That bloke with the claret eminating from him, I saw him in action. He kept throwing himself at the police barricade. Prick deserved what he got. Yeah, he deserved a walloping. Stupidly, the reason RBS got trashed was because the police wouldn't let the the march carry on out to the Alternative London Summit. What the hell did they expect would happen when you effectively trap thousands of protesters, with idiots like the one pictured who are looking for any excuse to turn violent, in a relatively small space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyellowbloke Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Reading all this has got me angry and frustrated for many reasons. I can see why many people see them as a futile waste of time and money, but they are necessary. Take the current situation with the economy. I agree Gordon Brown and the G20 are trying their best at the moment to keep the whole financial world afloat, but the thing is we shouldn't be in this situation in the first place. The banks should have been watched by the government, the government should have averted this crisis before it happened. But no, they were quite happy to go along with it as it led to massive growth and short term gain. Now the country is digging itself into huge debt, which we, the people, will have to pay for in taxes and job losses for years to come. Will the government acknowledge their failings or apologise? Will they hell. Instead the shift the blame to the FSA and the bankers. A few people may resign, but they'll just come back again in new cabinet positions. I mean how many times has Mandelson cocked up and then made a return. It's just a merry-go-round of the same old faces leading to a government with agendas that they press ahead with no matter what the public feels. How many people marched against the Iraq War? Did the government listen? And now it's a complete fucking mess which has cost us billions do they get held accountable or even apologise? Instead we get a couple of enquiries which tell us nothing which large parts withheld on account of "national security". Now I'm sure when they start out politicians think "yeah, I'm going to change the world and make the country a better place", but it seems somewhere along the line they seem to completely isolate themselves from the public and ignore all criticism so they can plough on with their plans. They then try to placate the public with a few promises of tax cuts and increased public spending in the hope we'll ignore their massive failings and re-elect them and we go and fall for it because what is the fucking alternative. It is this that pisses people off, from anti-capitalist to climate change protesters. The lack of communication from the government, the ignoring of criticism, the short-term thinking, the lack of consistency (hey we'll introduce greenhouse gas targets, but then build coal powerstations and when we fail to meet the targets we'll just push back the deadline and create new target because we're only accountable to ourselves). Unfortunately, at protests this usually just gets condensed down to "Down with capitalism" or "Fuck the government", but how the hell else are we meant to get the message across. Unfortunately I don't think there really is a simple solution and we'll keep going like this long into the future. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Its funny, in protesting about the economy, the protesters have managed to cost the country even more money. (Through police costs, damages, and council clean ups etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Its funny, in protesting about the economy, the protesters have managed to cost the country even more money. (Through police costs, damages, and council clean ups etc). YES! But their voices were heard [apparently] and that's all they care about. Being hypocritical fucks is a neglectable factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Its funny, in protesting about the economy, the protesters have managed to cost the country even more money. (Through police costs, damages, and council clean ups etc). At least the money went to people doing their jobs. Better than being spent on banks dealing out massive bonuses. I'm not really sure what your problem is Evil. You might not care but these protesters are being vocal about a system that only favours the few. Out of all peoples involved in this situation to be angry at, protesters deserve your scorn the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jav_NE Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Protesters are awesome. I would have gone if i lived in London. You have to show what you feel. And protest does work. My memory is crap, but didn't they put off invading Iran because of how the public reacted to Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyxis Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'm all for meaningful protests, but I am against anarchists and hippies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'm not really sure what your problem is Evil. You might not care but these protesters are being vocal about a system that only favours the few. Out of all peoples involved in this situation to be angry at, protesters deserve your scorn the least. No problem, just adding a bit of sarcy action on Ramar pointing out the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Express yourself, don't repress yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platty Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Haven't read any of this thread but would just like to say god damn protesters, get outta my way and go get a job! I had a long day at work yesterday and just wanted to get to charing cross and get my train home but nooo you hippies and pubic school arty types have to get in my way. Now bugger off before I closeline you all. /rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Did you have to go "undercover" and dress down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platty Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Did you have to go "undercover" and dress down? Na im not really in the city. Was recommended to but screw em. Bring em on if they wanna start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McPhee Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) I'm glad RBS got smashed up Yeah, it was an ingenious idea! Lets give a bank with no money that is on the verge of going broke a nice big damages bill. If it's not the bank thats paying for it then it'll be an insurance company instead, and they're not exactly in financial wonderland at the moment either... Take the current situation with the economy. I agree Gordon Brown and the G20 are trying their best at the moment to keep the whole financial world afloat, but the thing is we shouldn't be in this situation in the first place. The banks should have been watched by the government, the government should have averted this crisis before it happened. But no, they were quite happy to go along with it as it led to massive growth and short term gain. Now the country is digging itself into huge debt, which we, the people, will have to pay for in taxes and job losses for years to come. Will the government acknowledge their failings or apologise? Will they hell. Instead the shift the blame to the FSA and the bankers. A few people may resign, but they'll just come back again in new cabinet positions. I mean how many times has Mandelson cocked up and then made a return. It's just a merry-go-round of the same old faces leading to a government with agendas that they press ahead with no matter what the public feels. How many people marched against the Iraq War? Did the government listen? And now it's a complete fucking mess which has cost us billions do they get held accountable or even apologise? Instead we get a couple of enquiries which tell us nothing which large parts withheld on account of "national security". Why bother holding people accountable? It would just be a complete waste of time, effort and money right now. We need to leave the blame for tomorrow and concentrate on getting out of this bloody mess. At least we have a good chance of surviving if we act now, unlike Ireland or Iceland, who are both completely and utterly screwed! As for the protesting, becoming more political rather than an out of control rabble would be a good start. Being more rational, clear and reasoned on what you want to achieve is also helpful. All that will happen with these London protests is they'll be dismissed as another gathering of angry fools out for blood with no understanding of the implications of their demands. If ordinary people, say if everyone on Wednesday went ape shit insane and burnt down the city, that surely that is hinting at a pretty massive problem. If normal people are prepared to resort to violence and destruction, what does that say? All that achieves is overshadowing the political problem with a social one. The politics of the people behind the burning would no longer count, it'd just be the burning of the City that would remain. The media machine is far too powerful now for a violent revolt down the lines of the French Revolution to happen, you'd look like a bunch of jokes before the first week was over. Look at the papers, they're already taking the piss out of the people that broke in to RBS, and the ones who tried to loot Tesco. They've written them off as a bunch of clueless skinheads and university drop-outs, which is how the world will remember them. If the people who went to protest really want to make a difference then they need to get organised and gain some vision. Form a political party and fight the government in Parliament, if the people of this country really believe that you have the answer to our problems then you'd get elected, right? It'd certainly be a lot more productive than trying to tell the cat to chase an apple rather than a mouse. Edited April 3, 2009 by McPhee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I won't disappear In this city Felt apprope' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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