Planet Nibiru - The 10th Planet

[MoogleViper]

I think it would be almost impossible to hang a model there given that Jupiter can be magnified and looks far too realistic. Also, the model would have to move in relation to our viewing point, meaning you'd have to have some orbiting satellite or so with a big cut-out attached to it.

 

Lastly, you could measure the size relative to the distance of the planet against nearby stars to see it is considerably larger than they are. I don't think this 'it's all a lie' line of thinking is reasonable since we have learned so much through science, and the ones with this line of thinking think this way because they are not the scientists themselves, doing the research.

 

No other people have learned much through science. You only know what you have seen and what you have been told. And you choose to believe it. You've never made a satelite. How do you even know they exist? You don't, you just choose to believe that they do.

[Goron_3]

No other people have learned much through science. You only know what you have seen and what you have been told. And you choose to believe it. You've never made a satelite. How do you even know they exist? You don't, you just choose to believe that they do.

 

If they made this sort of stuff up, they'd announce it and ban anyone from ever even making an attempt to look in a telescope.

 

Go read a Brief History of Time by Mr Hawkings. Go on, Moogleviper.

[jayseven]

not really, those in power always seem to lie to their people, church, goverment, teachers, parents, every autority figure will lie/hide truth for various reasons, some to portect us, outhers to protect themselves. i think its become commonplace, and the norm, indeed, a truly honet polatition would be a very strange thing.

 

just because we dont always get the precise details about reasons for war (which is a big problem btw) dosent mean that the government is hiding details like an alien planet that will destroy us from us.

 

i mean, your parents probebly told you at some point that a pet or elderly realative had gone away on holiday or somthing after they had died to save your young self from the grife, or they would tell you santa existed to make you behave, dose that mean that your parents are also hiding the details of your emaculate conveption to a virgin womb?

So you're saying that yes, the government lies but it's ok because they're definitely doing it for good reasons.

 

I'm saying that yes, the government lies but it's not ok because they're doing it for reasons that we will never know. We will never be able to judge for ourselves whether their lies were appropriate or necessary, unlike those examples you listed about death and sex.

 

You're saying that because covering up the truth is commonplace that it is acceptable.

 

I'm saying that because it is commonplace we should question the world we live in. I'm saying that capitalism is all about lies! Profit comes from veiling the truth, and we've come to accept that it's alright -- that it's ok for a company to produce good x at price y and then sell it for price z. For no reason at all. Just money. We've come to accept that these people are not people; the person who grew your potato doesn't matter. How much they get paid doesn't matter. All that matters is that you are happy being fooled into paying inflated prices on goods in order to keep the glorious, ever-bettering society running because, of course, today is shit, yesterday is shitter, all we have it the future!

 

I'm saying a lot of things. Not all of them I can put into words so quickly... I just hate people who have the choice not to be ignorant yet choose to remain so. *crumbles*

[MoogleViper]

If they made this sort of stuff up, they'd announce it and ban anyone from ever even making an attempt to look in a telescope.

 

Go read a Brief History of Time by Mr Hawkings. Go on, Moogleviper.

 

But you're assuming that Mr Hawking is right. You've never met the guy (I assume ) for all you know he may not even exist.

[Shino]

But it's other people who have gone through that process. You and I haven't. So we only "know" what they tell us.

 

Is that air you're breathing?

 

We can't face life like that.

[jayseven]

But you're assuming that Mr Hawking is right. You've never met the guy (I assume ) for all you know he may not even exist.

 

But don't forget, you've never met moogleviper so you shouldn't really trust a word he says.

[Shino]

No other people have learned much through science. You only know what you have seen and what you have been told. And you choose to believe it. You've never made a satelite. How do you even know they exist? You don't, you just choose to believe that they do.

 

If you don't believe it by knowledge than do it by the modern applications we have today that derive directly from scientific knowledge.

[Supergrunch]

But it's other people who have gone through that process. You and I haven't. So we only "know" what they tell us.

Speak for yourself.

Yes, we take information about such things for granted, but that's because academics are interested in truth, and if you really don't believe them, feel free to do some research and find out what leads them to their conclusions, and then decide for yourself.

And no, of course I haven't validated everything I know. But scientists openly explain their methods - ever heard of the peer review process? And anyone can (and does) read the resulting papers.

 

No other people have learned much through science. You only know what you have seen and what you have been told. And you choose to believe it. You've never made a satelite. How do you even know they exist? You don't, you just choose to believe that they do.

The vast majority of scientific discoveries about the universe are made through indirect methods, such as looking at seeming irregularities in the movements of stars and so on. Anybody can make these observations for themselves. And if we haven't learned things from science, what have we learned from? Frankly, I have far more confidence in many scientific hypotheses than I do in facts about my own life. I can use Occam's razor, and see that scientific theories rest on far fewer assumptions than do conspiracy theories.

 

But you're assuming that Mr Hawking is right. You've never met the guy (I assume ) for all you know he may not even exist.

Erm, I've seen him a fair few times. We live in the same city and went to the same school.

[MoogleViper]

We can't face life like that.

 

That's right. That's why you choose to believe what you do.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

Ok tell me one thing that you know for absolute certainty and I'll give you another possibility.

[Supergrunch]

Ok tell me one thing that you know for absolute certainty and I'll give you another possibility.

When speaking English, I aspirate my unvoiced bilabial stops if they're in syllable initial position.

 

And to counter my argument, you must give a possibility which rests on as many or fewer assumptions - Occam's razor and all that.

[MoogleViper]

When speaking English, I aspirate my unvoiced bilabial stops if they're in syllable initial position.

 

And to counter my argument, you must give a possibility which rests on as many or fewer assumptions - Occam's razor and all that.

 

1. I was hoping you'd choose something that you'd understand.

 

2. No. If there was one other possibility, however unlikely, then it isn't certain. It is just the most credible.

[Chris the great]

you seem to have miss interperated me jayseven, im not saying its ok that we are lied too, i was just pointing out that we have been lied to as long as we could talk, we have to make our own interpritations of truth, but that dosnt mean government = lies, none government = truth.

 

the stuff in that video, we have no evidence for, it goes against our current understanding of science.

 

how can we trust this science? well, scientific validity is built upon reliable, and therefor repeatable, means. need to see evidence of gravity? you can repeat exerements at home.

 

yes, we are lied to, but not everything we are told is a lie. dont belive everything you are told, but dont disstrust it all either. use logic and reason, the two most powerful tools at your disposal. (besides knife wrench)

[weeyellowbloke]

"Credibility"?... and so what if they [the scientists] are just making it all up? How would you know? In this sense, they are no different than the guys making these sort of videos. Its only mysterious and shadowy if you make it to be, and thats what our minds usually does towards things we don't or seemingly can't understand or find an answer to.

 

But hey, to each his/her own really.

 

Shit, I'm going to have to go tell the guys the games up. Yes it's true, all scientists throughout history have just been making up bullshit and had to say a pledge to keep it quiet. Now our cunning ruse has come crashing down.

 

Come on, why are people always getting at the scientists. Either we're speccy geeks in lab coats who are too tied up with the technicalities to really, like, appreciate nature man or we're godless heathens or doom mongers who'll destroy the earth with our meddling. Truth is we're just the guys who've bothered to get off our arse and work this shit out. You're welcome to do exactly the same, but if you're not going to trust everything that's gone before you'll have to do all the experiments of history again to verify them. That should take, oooooh, roughly 3000 years (coincidently about the same amount of time humanity has been delving into scientific inquiry).

 

As for the government being involved with mass cover-ups, I think you're giving far to much credit to their competence. These are the same guys who every week seem to leave some top secret documents or highly sensitive data on a train or in a cafe. The most they're going to do is twist the truth in their favour.

 

PS. The earth actually is flat, I mean how else do penguins stay on.

[Sheikah]

No other people have learned much through science. You only know what you have seen and what you have been told. And you choose to believe it. You've never made a satelite. How do you even know they exist? You don't, you just choose to believe that they do.

But you see, this is just ignorance. I could say to people saying "how do you know it exists?" - "Why don't you go and find out if it exists instead of wasting your sorry life typing bullshit on the internet?"

 

Scientists know stuff exists (e.g. satellites) through first hand experience, are we to say they don't exist simply because we can't be assed going to Jodrell Bank? Just ignorance, really.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Whoa, I can't be bothered to go deep into this discussion, but I'll comment on a few things. Bear in mind I don't have as much scientific knowledge as some of you, but I'll try to argue with logic.

 

Moogle: You're absolutely right. But Occam's Razor is the key here: Some theories are far more credible than others, and as long as another theory with just as few or fewer assumptions has been made, we really shouldn't doubt it for no apparent reason. Of course, science progresses and older theories get enhanced or replaced, but the further evolution of science goes, the smaller the probability of error becomes.

 

Chris: I completely agree. The government and other high-official bodies are not always honest with us, but crying wolf won't do us any good. Of course, we should be critical, but Occam's Razor is the key again.

 

Jayseven: I also agree with you. But I can't help but wonder: Could we imagine scenarios where it would be best if we weren't told anything or if we were told a lie? Of course, this only applies to lies that are for the good of the people. If, say, a new type of cheap and environmental fuel had been discovered, but oil companies paid the discoverer to keep quiet, it would never be all right, for that would only benefit the rich oil companies and have negative effects on everyone else.

 

Supergrunch: What can I say? You're seriously my hero, idol, and role model in here!

[MoogleViper]

But you see, this is just ignorance. I could say to people saying "how do you know it exists?" - "Why don't you go and find out if it exists instead of wasting your sorry life typing bullshit on the internet?"

 

Scientists know stuff exists (e.g. satellites) through first hand experience, are we to say they don't exist simply because we can't be assed going to Jodrell Bank? Just ignorance, really.

 

How is it ignorance? Even if I went and saw a satellite and touched it there's still a chance that it didn't exist. but if somebody asked me if a satellite exists I'd say yes because I choose to believe that it exists. I choose to believe that what I experienced was real.

 

And any half decent scientist will say that they don't know stuff. They say things that they have the most evidence for.

[Sheikah]

How is it ignorance?

 

It is ignorance because people choose to keep questioning if something exists, rather than putting effort into finding out whether it exists or not. With the satellite debate, we all know they exist and could even prove it (I've been to Jodrell Bank) if we wanted to.

 

Just because someone doesn't know if it exists or not, it doesn't mean it might not exist. It just means someone hasn't bothered to find out.

 

And any half decent scientist will say that they don't know stuff. They say things that they have the most evidence for.

Any scientist who could be considered half-decent would admit satellites exist.

[Emasher]

I never said Jupiter didn't exist. I said we don't know with absolute certainty that it does. How do you know the Earth would have been destroyed? Because you were told so?

 

*waits for the fish to come and talk about teapots*

 

Enough people in many different organizations that aren't even linked together have more evidence that jupiter exists than the human brain can handle. Is it realistic to believe they all lied? No it isn't.

[MoogleViper]

Enough people in many different organizations that aren't even linked together have more evidence that jupiter exists than the human brain can handle. Is it realistic to believe they all lied? No it isn't.

 

That's not my point. I don't believe they lied. I think that Jupiter does exist. but I don't know for absolute certain that it does. And neither do you. But we choose to believe that it does as there is lots of evidence telling us that it does.

[Sheikah]

That's not my point. I don't believe they lied. I think that Jupiter does exist. but I don't know for absolute certain that it does. And neither do you. But we choose to believe that it does as there is lots of evidence telling us that it does.

 

You only need so much proof before something is certain fact. Results that can always be obtained after independent repeats and a plethora of evidence all combines to form a certain fact. This 'how do we know' line of thinking rests on the concept that at the end of everything, we might just be brains in jars and nothing in this universe that we know actually exists. But that argument is so ridiculous that I won't even touch on it.

 

For instance, you could ask the question - "Does your standard woman have the sex chromosomes XX or XY?" You could examine the DNA of 10 million average women with no genetic problems and they'd all have XX. You can call it certain fact that women have XX and not XY.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

*Static* This is not the user King_V *static*... Nibiru is *static* coming! (Cue spooky instrumental music)... The end is nigh!!!!.... Bitches!

 

Well... I certainly am happy to have posted this as it has encouraged open ended debate and opinion, which I always love. I'm not some paranoid youtube junky; I didn't post this believing in it neither as a final dooms day reminder... Just really to speak about the possibilities of the subject. Conspiracies or not, as long as you're aware you are not told the entire truth then you should 'do well'.

 

One thing to remember is that these agencies under our governments a at least 20 years ahead of the population technologically... They would be the ones to be able to have the means to spot such a potential catastrophe, not the independants.

 

The OVERWHELMING FACT is, our government, OUR representatives... Have SECRETS and keep SECRETS from the population EITHER for our own good or for theirs... Classified information that you, the tax payers who fund this shite, have no 'right' to know.

[Sheikah]

The OVERWHELMING FACT is, our government, OUR representatives... Have SECRETS and keep SECRETS from the population EITHER for our own good or for theirs...

Are you applying for a position with the Daily Mail?

[Chris the great]

Are you applying for a position with the Daily Mail?

 

just had a thought, this nibiru, it was plannet 12 to the sumalians, (sun and moon counted too) yet no outher moons counted? i smell fail on their part.

 

as for secrets being kept, the who and they why are inevitably linked. say the government had found a potentialy dangerious virus, but it had not yet spread to human, originating in say, russia. if announced this could lead to public panic and have a negative impact on the russian economy. if it is kept quiet, with only certain officials knowing and science teams working on how to cure/halt it, then russia gets no bad.

 

or, the government has secret defence files. GOOD. if we all know battle plans, then so too will any enemys, and our army is at a dissadvantage. its similar in the terrorist stakes. say MI6 knows of a terror cell, should they let us know, just to keep us in the loop, as we fund it, despite the fact that it will compromise the mission, and there for lives?

 

i dont like being kept in the dark about alot of things, but the fact is, if all information was available about our defences, or even our economy, the nation would be in a weaker position.

 

that said, i agree with danboy 100%, if the government is taking payouts to stop alternitive fules (as an example) from reaching us as quickily as they might, then thats just not cricket.

[Jonnas]

just had a thought, this nibiru, it was plannet 12 to the sumalians, (sun and moon counted too) yet no outher moons counted? i smell fail on their part.

 

According to the wikipedia article, it went like this:

 

-Zecharia Sitchin checks ancient sumerian texts. One of them depicts 12 points, similar to an astronomic map;

-He concludes it must represent the planets;

-Later, people find out it wasn't an astronomic map. It was something else.

 

So no, they didn't find anything. How could they, anyway?

This whole "10th planet" ordeal is just the theory of some guy, and it has plenty of holes in it.

 

As for the "governments are hiding stuff!" debate, I 100% agree with Chris.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

 

just had a thought, this nibiru, it was plannet 12 to the sumalians, (sun and moon counted too) yet no outher moons counted? i smell fail on their part.

 

as for secrets being kept, the who and they why are inevitably linked. say the government had found a potentialy dangerious virus, but it had not yet spread to human, originating in say, russia. if announced this could lead to public panic and have a negative impact on the russian economy. if it is kept quiet, with only certain officials knowing and science teams working on how to cure/halt it, then russia gets no bad.

 

or, the government has secret defence files. GOOD. if we all know battle plans, then so too will any enemys, and our army is at a dissadvantage. its similar in the terrorist stakes. say MI6 knows of a terror cell, should they let us know, just to keep us in the loop, as we fund it, despite the fact that it will compromise the mission, and there for lives?

 

i dont like being kept in the dark about alot of things, but the fact is, if all information was available about our defences, or even our economy, the nation would be in a weaker position.

 

that said, i agree with danboy 100%, if the government is taking payouts to stop alternitive fules (as an example) from reaching us as quickily as they might, then thats just not cricket.

 

Bingo!

 

If our government saw a Fairyland Cookie wrapper on Mars, they won't be telling us anytime soon. And I doubt they would if they were aware that a hellish-looking planet was heading our way. Not at least until they feel we are "ready". So many alien-orientated movies have popped up since the 60s... Perhaps this is what is being done to make us "ready". ^^

 

Anyway, on a side note has anyone watch the film i think is called mission to mars, something like that, about that group who found a martian on mars who showed them how they sowed the seed of life on Earth, what are your thoughst of the... (cough) possibilities? ^^