What was 'wrong' with Twilight Princess?

[Deathborn]

Yea they better get a decent budget for this.

 

I'd be quite happy for a prequel to MM and have the game based on Majoras Mask and Fierce Link. Such a cool character.

 

MM is my favourite but I don't want such a thing. MM is good as a one-shot, keeping his aura of mystery and weirdness. A game in the same spirit, yes, but I fear a game with fierce deity Link would be a little too "look I'm badass" game made to appeal manga loving teens.

By game in the same spirit, I mean it would keep the colorful kiddy look but sticking to the dark weirdness that made the charm of MM. And plenty of side-quest also. I also love how MM use a minor quest of OOT (masks) to make it of the main gameplay mechanic of the game.

I would like something similar with the camera (was in MM,WW and even ALTTP) with sidequests like a photo safari (à la Pokemon Snap), picture contests,...

[Hellfire]

I'm gonna reply without reading any other post so I won't cry and get angry and answer, saying this: nothing.

[Tyson]

Everything that was missing from every other Zelda game, but it wouldn't really be Zelda if it had them, would it?

[Zero]

I think it was lacking a story. Compared to when all the other games were brought out the story in them was about as good as you would get from that time period (except maybe WW)

 

I built up my hopes on the first trailer like Retro_Link said as well. A bit disapointed when you didn't get to ride into an army yourself.

 

I would like it if they touched more on the history of hyrule more and like King_V said, I would prefer when Link got the Triforce of Courage that it actually done something.

[Tellyn]

Nothing was wrong with it at all, I loved it. Everyone hyped themselves up and expected a true revolution like Ocarina of Time though. I wish they wouldn't listen to you people and keep trying to make a 'realistic' Zelda, the visuals in Wind Waker were absolutely gorgeous and breathtaking. If we get a prequel to Wind Waker (the Hero did not appear) or a sequel to Phantom Hourglass as the true Wii Zelda, I'll be ecstatic - I feel that if they wanted to do something revolutionary with the controls a la PH, then the cel-shaded visuals are the way forward.

[ShadowV7]

I would like it if they touched more on the history of hyrule more and like King_V said, I would prefer when Link got the Triforce of Courage that it actually done something.

 

Agreed with you on the rest of the post, but you must not forget that the TriForce of Courage glows on his hand...

 

Though saying that, what does it do? We've seen Zelda use hers to open doors in Ganons tower in OOT, then Ganon using it to transform...

[Zero]

Nothing was wrong with it at all, I loved it. Everyone hyped themselves up and expected a true revolution like Ocarina of Time though. I wish they wouldn't listen to you people and keep trying to make a 'realistic' Zelda, the visuals in Wind Waker were absolutely gorgeous and breathtaking. If we get a prequel to Wind Waker (the Hero did not appear) or a sequel to Phantom Hourglass as the true Wii Zelda, I'll be ecstatic - I feel that if they wanted to do something revolutionary with the controls a la PH, then the cel-shaded visuals are the way forward.

 

I did enjoy the game but this whole thread is about what you feel is missing so it would be quite redundent to say what I liked. Personally i'm not asking for a 'realistic' zelda. All I wish they would do is spend more time on it and bring it out earlier.

 

That last sentence condradicts but, I still wish they would do it.

[Goron_3]

Nothing was wrong with it at all, I loved it. Everyone hyped themselves up and expected a true revolution like Ocarina of Time though. I wish they wouldn't listen to you people and keep trying to make a 'realistic' Zelda, the visuals in Wind Waker were absolutely gorgeous and breathtaking. If we get a prequel to Wind Waker (the Hero did not appear) or a sequel to Phantom Hourglass as the true Wii Zelda, I'll be ecstatic - I feel that if they wanted to do something revolutionary with the controls a la PH, then the cel-shaded visuals are the way forward.

 

I didn't hype myself up, but playing through the game a second time really shows how dated it already is. That said, maybe it's because the first trailer for it made it look completely different, and even the second trailer aswell.

 

Hm what really was gay was how the first trailer made it look as if there was going to be a MASSIVE war; i would love it if Link had to travel OUT of hyrule and make peace with neighbouring lands and get them to fight for hyrule to defeat Ganon.

 

They also need to use the triforce more; in OoT they successfully showed how greed and power led to Hyrule being fucked up, they didn't really do that in TP (just before you battle Ganon go walk through Hyrule Market....everything is COMPLETELY fine). Would be cool if the perspective switched to Ganon more aswell, maybe getting to play as him at some points.

 

I honestly think a new zelda, if done right, could be the most epic thing ever, and something incredibly moving and touching if done right.

 

Also, LOL at hellfires post. Again, everything Nintendo do is perfect apparantly.

[Retro_Link]

Though saying that, what does it do? We've seen Zelda use hers to open doors in Ganons tower in OOT, then Ganon using it to transform...

Yeah I was gonna say the reason the Triforce of Courage doesn't give Link any 'powers' is because it's Courage, it gives him courage!

We usually see it glowing on his hand going into the last boss battle, because it's giving Link all the WILL power and strength he needs to go kick some against Ganondorf!

 

Having said that... Zelda's is Wisdom! and there's no real reason why she should get magic capabilities from that.

 

So yeah for the next Zelda why not let the triforce empower Link with some 'couragous'/strong moves, ala SSBB.

[Hellfire]

Even if you admit you're contradicting yourself it still doesn't make a drop of sense lol

If you're asking what's missing from a game, I can go on and on for every game in existance, as no game is perfect and we can make all the wishlists we want. If you ask me what I want to see in the next Zelda, asides from something that I can't even imagine wanting to see (not an easy feat), I want more wild life, I want to feel I'm really climbing a mountain or going into a hidden forest (like Lost Woods in TP), I want to fight adverse weather conditions, and I want them to break the current definition of dungeon even more. Tp had the best level designs I've ever seen and places like the Ice Mansion were incredible in the way that they weren't a dungeon per se, just another place and I also liked that the last two dungeons weren't extended to be big just for the sake of needing to be big because they were the last ones. The wolf twilight parts also helped to break the dungeon mold and I want them to go in that direction, although I don't want dungeons to disapear. Also, include a difficulty setting, please.

 

Also, LOL at hellfires post. Again, everything Nintendo do is perfect apparantly.

 

Give it a fucking rest, I don't think anything is deeply wrong with TP is that a crime? Stop the dumb trolling and the idiotic generalisation.

[Tellyn]

I honestly think a new zelda, if done right, could be the most epic thing ever, and something incredibly moving and touching if done right.

 

I had a thought. Hideo Kojima co-producing the new Zelda with Miyamoto.

[D_prOdigy]

I had a thought. Hideo Kojima co-producing the new Zelda with Miyamoto.

 

...mmmyeah, I think it would actually be time to commit suicide when we here David Hayer as Link saying "mmm... Zelda?"

[Retro_Link]

I want more wild life, I want to feel I'm really climbing a mountain or going into a hidden forest (like Lost Woods in TP), I want to fight adverse weather conditions, and I want them to break the current definition of dungeon even more.

Reminded me we had a thread like this not so long ago, to which I replied:

 

I don't feel that Zelda needs to change as such, but it needs to feel like a real adventure and offer a real challenge, in an ever changing living expansive world. I want a proper quest, full of exploration.

 

Make a percentage of the game optional/hidden, so that you have those truely WOW moments when you discover something completly off the beaten track, be it a sidequest, village, item or just a view.

 

Maybe even hook the game up to the weather channel or give us seasonal change; land and villages that get covered in snow 6 months after you've finished the game, opening up new areas to explore etc...

I'd love a real exploration, braving harsh weathers, weathers that change the environment, snow drifts that open up areas you never knew were there ling after you've finished the game etc...

[Tellyn]

...mmmyeah, I think it would actually be time to commit suicide when we here David Hayer as Link saying "mmm... Zelda?"

 

[blender]

they need to get rid of the camp hero and the gay postman. They need a real man on this quest with muscles and preferably a gun.

We need CHANGE YOU CAN BELIVE IN.

[Goron_3]

I had a thought. Hideo Kojima co-producing the new Zelda with Miyamoto.

 

That would be incredible, especially with Hideos ability to convey story from cutscenes.

 

A true 'next-gen' zelda (sorry to use the term lol) could be so epic SO much potential when you look at the characters, the history and the heart of what zelda is about.

[Mike]

Although I still think TP was a good game (I prefer it to WW, but not OOT or MM), I definitely agree with some of the problems people have mentioned here, like towns with hardly any residents.

 

I also think that Nintendo tried too hard to make it realistic. The environments were mostly browny-grey, and the few NPCs that there were were just too 'normal', and lacked the personality of NPCs in other Zeldas. Even Link's costume was a duller green, and the blue and red suits were ugly. Another problem with the increased realism was that there wasn't enough magic - OOT was like a fairy tale, with the faries, spells and potions, but in TP Link didn't even have a magic meter. Okay, Midna added a touch of fantasy, but that was almost as far as it went. I'd rather Nintendo didn't go back to the cel shading for the next game, but TP was just a bit too realistic.

[Cube]

I had a thought. Hideo Kojima co-producing the new Zelda with Miyamoto.

 

Only if he can do it without a single cutscene lasting longer than 5 minutes. I like to actually play my games.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Nothing wrong with a 'realistic' Zelda IMO. With the 'silly' appeal of the likes of Mario and co, its a good idea to have the Zelda series as the somewhat serious fantasy. I think Nintendo or the producers of TP just took a little too much from similar fantasies such as Lord of the Rings and probably spent too much time with the 'tracing paper'. The Zelda spirit is lost when you alter so much of it.

 

I see OOT and MM as 'realistic', I think most people use that term just to oppose WW style. Yet OOT and MM had stuff like great fairies that looked weird but we all excepted it as 'Zelda Weird', but the great fairies in TP look just a little too similar to some Elvin queen in LotR and there are many other subtle changes like this.

 

I think to get this 'spirit' back they need to go back and look within and get more inspiration from their older games. OOT and MM were very powerful games emotionally. The dreaded feeling you get on the Final Day in Termina or the feeling of shock you get visiting a frozen, desolate Zora's Domain are all missing in TP for me. Colin's ordeal and transformation had no effect on me, but the plight of the Twili kind of did since I felt pity for the way Zant turned them into shadow beasts but Nintendo just didn't take their story deeper for - something more should have happened or should have been told or elaborated on at the Palace of Twilight - especially since the game is essentially focused around the Twili/Twilight Princess.

 

Looking within Nintendo, look within...(my son

[Dante]

I had a thought. Hideo Kojima co-producing the new Zelda with Miyamoto.

 

I had that thought like that Hideo Kojima should remake Zelda:1 and Aol together for the DS or him to remake Oot and MM as one.

[pedrocasilva]

Starting it off with... nothing wrong with Zelda TP.

I think we were all a little decieved with Twilight Princess, because we certainly didn't get what everyone percieved from this:

 

 

 

and I myself was just let down by the story that we did end up with because I'd conjured up this awesome scenario that just didn't materialise.

The first trailers for TP suggested a huge war. I'd really like to see this in a game.

I'd also like to see the Gerudos returning.

It did materialize, that's in-game... it was axed. Came as a direct following to OoT (finally! imprisioning war) and so... they made a more content abstract Zelda. Less epic by consequence.

 

Aonuma: Back then we considered making it the sequel of Ocarina of Time, some years later… But then we thought of the first-time players, who wouldn’t understand a thing if you started as a wolf, so we changed it and had human Link from the start.

Also I think that it's about time to have a bit more character development. Link should show attraction to some female character, preferrably those feelings should be answered.

HELL NO!

 

Link has always shown attractions to females actually, it just never materializes and we don't have FFX'ish scenes (we backstreet boys)... that's how it should be, really.

 

Eye contact and even meaningless things like touching hands 1 time in the whole game are meaningful, when they're not banalized; taking the relations into physical ones would do such, and also taking the game into a direction some could not relate to. People who liked malon and saria for example (and god forbid Ruto) would feel forced if they had any more than that with zelda, with no objection to the fact that link liked Zelda in that game.

 

If they want such system... they'd have to implement a relation/affection system too, for the game to go at least a little in the direction of the player choices; not contradicting them. (this is highly unlikely)

 

I all for more character development though, just not love scenes.

 

 

Keypoints for a next zelda though... harder dificulty, Zelda's gameplay is still light years from most RPG's (now leaning towards action) and it's a shame that normal enemies die so quickly, leaves no space to show off and no reason for the extra skills we had in TP. difficulty modes wouldn't be a bad idea. with the actual setting being considered "easy"

 

CITIES - notion of country with more detailed cities and in bigger quantity. notion of being inhabited and having the means for people to survive. they should be meaningful too due to:

 

SIDEQUESTS - MM of the new millenium, please; sidequests make cities have a purpose, all characters intervinient in the story should have a few sidequests and details to their personas other than the obligatory ones to finish the game linearly.

 

Character Development - optional and more of the not optional one; not on the main character though. No useless characters.

 

Truth Stones - C'mon, and a way to talk to them.

 

Music playing - we want it back, properly

 

Proper Hylian - It's already written, let's go after spoken "lord of the ring'ish" now; that or gibberish like midna (again for everyone but the main character)

 

and... Why not more proper dialects?

 

Integration of human people in Hyrule. (OoT all hylian, WW and TP, humans too); cultural differences.

 

Way to spend rupee's realistically in the game. No one gets rich from cutting grass, so we should always be short on what we needed regarding money; stores and money playing a bigger part in the game. No rupee-grabbing suits.

 

Using items. Ultimate items/upgrades are welcome, specially with a boss and enemy to defeat due to getting them, and one in the end for having all items (these enemies can be in the cave of ordeals). good balancing of weapong against enemies, and if the new weapon would kill a enemy at the first swing now... they should start to change into stronger ones.

 

 

This:

 

Zelda Engine doing Cell Shading

 

+

 

Classic Zelda, non chibi/adult presentation, cartoony

 

+

 

Dark overtone shading, deformed forms, dark and gritty; tim burton'esque (at parts, at least)

 

+

 

EPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIC'ness

[Girly hiyaz!~ Gamer]

The only thing that was missing was Tingle.

[LazyBoy]

The problem was Nintendo listened to the fans instead of doing whatever the fuck they liked.

 

Still a great game though.

[Grazza]

I thought there were a lot of problems with Twilight Princess, generally in three categories:

 

1) Pure design flaws

2) Limitations of hardware (GameCube)

3) Porting it to the Wii (and porting it back to the GC). I feel no-one actually got the true game in the end.

 

One of the biggest problems was that it didn’t feel like a fluid, 3D world. The GameCube version, at least, had terrible load times. You couldn’t run from one part of the overworld (or sections of Castle Town) to another without a good few seconds’ wait. This really ruined the illusion, and was a far cry from the fluid world of Wind Waker where you could sail up to an island, without a pause for the “action†to load up.

 

The fixed, overhead view in Castle Town ruined my immersion, personally. It was almost like the 2D backgrounds in parts of Ocarina of Time, and felt like a step back from the full, controllable 3D of Wind Waker and Majora’s Mask. Why couldn’t they put the camera at Link’s level? I suspect it had something to do with the Wii not having camera control.

 

If you stood on the balcony of one of the buildings (the one that the Gorons use as a temporary shop), you get a “fake†view of the market square. I feel this would have been a real-time view in Wind Waker, at least. Also in the “technical limitations†category is the “flat†feeling forest, which does not resemble the 3D forest of the 2004 trailer. But hey, if the GameCube couldn’t handle that in the end, it’s easy to accept.

 

Then there were the unnecessary design flaws such as putting rupees back, descriptions of rupees etc. In truth, I wasn’t too keen on the wolf and twilight aspects either. The joy of the Zelda games is largely about controlling Link, a one-man army, and deciding which items to use whether you’re in dungeon, field or village: the antithesis of a disjointed RPG (or indeed, Zelda II). The huge circle of items, whilst not a big problem, could have been streamlined. I’d have preferred less items (scrap the spinner, ball & chain etc), but more customisation of existing items, such as fire, ice and light arrows. Improvisation is key.

 

Speaking of items, my single biggest annoyance with the game is the lack of a mirror shield, not for its own sake, but for what that implies. There is a conspicuous gap after the wooden and Hylian shields. Now, in the September 2005 demo, when the release of the GameCube game was imminent, you could manually alter the angle of the shield, presumably by pressing the R-trigger and analogue stick like in OoT, MM and WW. The game was then delayed and this didn’t make it into the 2006 release, even on GameCube. Like the lack of camera control in Castle Town, I blame the Wii not having the necessary buttons.

 

Sorry for the long post. Twilight Princess was an amazing game, just with far more problems than any previous Zelda (OoT and WW are essentially perfect; MM’s one “flaw†also makes it interesting). It’s the last game I was really excited about, and feel it would have been better as a pure GameCube game, without the year’s delay. Silly design problems can always be overlooked, but not so much when it was ruined for the sake of another console.

[Hellfire]

There was no back and forth porting, the game was made for GC, they spent an aditional year making the Wii version and tweaking it and that's it.

I would have liked to control the shield like in the previous ones too, although it's useless it was cool and yeah that thing telling you how many rupeed you got was annoying, never really got the point. Putting rupees back in the chest though? Awesome. The camera control in Castle Town doesn't have anything to do with buttons or lack of it, it's just that it's easier to design a level, specially if it's a busy town with narrow streets with a fixed camera.