Heroes Season 3 *Beware of Spoilers*

[Retro_Link]

I'm guessing he knows since he was having a look at one of her files at some point during the episode.

Ah! T'is true!

 

But the rest just makes no sense right?!

[Tellyn]

Ah! T'is true!

 

But the rest just makes no sense right?!

 

It's quite confusing. Maybe Adam's the catalyst, or maybe there's some elaborate storyline in which future "you betrayed me!" Hiro travels to see his father at the Company before Claire is born and gets pulled into bringing Claire back in time and having the catalyst implanted in her...? No idea, just a theory.

 

[Ashley]

Or maybe they're doing a crazy mixture of both talking out their arse and making up as they go along.

 

Because how on Earth would Angela know theres a catalyst and not Arthur considering in the last episode Angela was shown to just be a housewife with a raped memory, while Arthur was part of the company.

 

[Retro_Link]

Or maybe they're doing a crazy mixture of both talking out their arse and making up as they go along.

 

Because how on Earth would Angela know theres a catalyst and not Arthur considering in the last episode Angela was shown to just be a housewife with a raped memory, while Arthur was part of the company.

Though Angela was as much a part of the company, and Linderman restored all her memories.

 

But I agree, unless there's some really good explaination here, they are SERIOUSLY fucking things up story wise and just doing anything they want regardless of whether it makes sense.

 

Also... going back to Angela telling Hiro 'he held the key', which was Adam, was that because she knew Adam was a catalyst? if so she'd forgotten so by this latest episode because otherwise she'd have brought him up in the conversation!

I still don't get that whole Hiro going to get Adam story!

 

[Supergrunch]

Erm, guys, the catalyst is only needed to create artificial abilities - the older generation presumably all had natural abilities. But they'll probably mess up the logic of that too, just as they're ruining everything in the show. It's so poor right now.

[Ashley]

Yes but Nathan and the Ali Larter triplets were all given synthetic abilities. And obviously Claire wasn't there as she is the illegitimate love child of one of them. Maybe both, with Heroes' 'crazy' twists.

 

[Retro_Link]

How craply unbelievable was the Hiro and Ando stuff!

 

What Ando can just teleport Hiro now [away from Arthur] just by closing his eyelids??!

 

And how simply and quickly did Hiro just rediscover his powers, despite being a '10 year old' who would have no real concept of what he's doing or what any of it all means!

 

Is it now safe to assume Elle would have been Sylars wife and mother of his child in the future?

 

[Supergrunch]

Yes but Nathan and the Ali Larter triplets were all given synthetic abilities. And obviously Claire wasn't there as she is the illegitimate love child of one of them. Maybe both, with Heroes' 'crazy' twists.

I got the impression that the catalyst had just been put in Claire for safe-keeping, but I may be wrong.

 

[Ganepark32]

@ Gizmo - oops, forgot Peter had the ability to jump through time like Hiro. And the painting thing. Although it still doesn't explain how he knew where Hiro was. Perhaps Arthur was just lucky as they were looking for Usutu as I remember when Daphne was sent out to get hold of people so looks like Hiro was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Retro_Link]

Wonder why Usutu didn't 'see' Arthur coming?! or maybe he just knew he was to powerful to be stopped!

[GothicPlague]

Yes but Nathan and the Ali Larter triplets were all given synthetic abilities. And obviously Claire wasn't there as she is the illegitimate love child of one of them. Maybe both, with Heroes' 'crazy' twists.

 

Did they not say that Nathan could accept artificial powers because he had the genetics from his parents but wasn't born with a power? Hence them wanting to use Peter to test the formula as his body would accept it.

 

[Retro_Link]

Did they not say that Nathan could accept artificial powers because he had the genetics from his parents but wasn't born with a power? Hence them wanting to use Peter to test the formula as his body would accept it.

The point is that they experimented on Nathan, the Triplets and others with Synthetic powers,[possibly Elle etc...] when they were very young, in the womb or what have you. Docter Zimmerman even said "I created you", now whether that meant the Triplets were 'test tube babies', or he just meant 'I made you what you are'...

Anyways, Claire wouldn't have even been born at that point in time so they surely must have given Nathan etc... his powers from another 'catalyst'.

 

When Angela mentioned Kaito at the end of the episode, did anyone else think she was going to reveal what his power was, and maybe that it had something to do with igniting the DNA.

Alas she did not, and we still have no idea what Kaito's power was!

 

[ShadowV7]

Claire doesn't need to be the only catalyst, perhaps the catalyst 'heals' the mutated cells in a way, or that's sort of how I see it. And they could of used Adam/someone else with the power. Either way it's quite obvious there's/was another catalyst.

 

No, I didn't really think she would mention Kaito's power. Didn't really cross

my mind

 

[Supergrunch]

Incidentally, can I just point out what utter bollocks Mohinder was talking when he introduced the concept of a catalyst? - "to help the enzyme" or something equally stupid. An enyme is a catalyst, you idiot. Might have actually made some sense if instead of a catalyst you needed a coenzyme...

[Tellyn]

Because how on Earth would Angela know theres a catalyst and not Arthur considering in the last episode Angela was shown to just be a housewife with a raped memory, while Arthur was part of the company.

 

Arthur's been presumed dead for a few years, in that time Angela's been to see Kaito a few times. Going by Arthur's reaction to Mohinder when he found out that a catalyst was required, it seems Kaito created it without him knowing.

 

 

I still don't get that whole Hiro going to get Adam story!

 

Nor do I, I was looking forward to seeing what they were going to do with him but they killed him a bit too early on. Maybe Angela Petrelli is secretly working for or under the control of Arthur, explaining why she got Hiro to awaken Adam and why he actually complied with her demand to release her in episode 9.

 

 

Incidentally, can I just point out what utter bollocks Mohinder was talking when he introduced the concept of a catalyst? - "to help the enzyme" or something equally stupid. An enyme is a catalyst, you idiot. Might have actually made some sense if instead of a catalyst you needed a coenzyme...

 

Stop being picky! The series is based on comic books like Spider-Man; Stan Lee was self-admittedly talking out of his arse when he gave Spidey, Hulk and various other superheroes their powers. A radioactive spider bite would probably kill you rather than give you superpowers, it doesn't have to be scientifically accurate.

[Supergrunch]

Stop being picky! The series is based on comic books like Spider-Man; Stan Lee was self-admittedly talking out of his arse when he gave Spidey, Hulk and various other superheroes their powers. A radioactive spider bite would probably kill you rather than give you superpowers, it doesn't have to be scientifically accurate.

Well I'm almost willing to forgive made up rubbish if the story is good (it's not like the concept of the show makes any scientific sense), but when it isn't the pseudoscience stands out as yet another weapon in their arsenal of storyline ruiners. Especially if it's inconsistent - it's one thing making up magic-like sci-fi concepts, but it's quite another to come up with ideas that are inconsistent and so can't really be analysed. It means that you're just expected to sit back and wait for the next shitty plot twist to be revealed, without there being any reasoning behind what's going on.

[Dante]

There was a lot of drama leading up to the Heroes panel at Creative Screenwriting's 2008 Screenwriting Expo this past weekend. Originally, the panel was scheduled to include series creator Tim Kring, along with producer/writers Jeph Loeb and Jesse Alexander… except Loeb and Alexander were then let go from the series shortly before the Expo. The word kept changing on what would occur for what now sounded like a potentially awkward panel. At one point Kring dropped out, and Loeb and Alexander were going to appear without him. In the end though, Kring appeared solo, and it was hard not to wonder how much the discussion –- meant to be on the Heroes writing process – would instead turn to the notable changes behind the scenes.

 

The answer turned out to be that there wouldn't be any talk of this at all. The moderator introduced the panel noting the intention was to keep it focused on writing and not on personnel changes, and that's exactly what occurred. It was hard to not think there was too much of a mandate to keep things drama-free though, as there weren't even any direct questions given about the considerable criticism Heroes has faced of late.

 

Going back to the origins of the show, Kring explained how he had recognized that NBC did not have any sort of ensemble, serialized drama, in the wake of the success of shows like 24 and Lost. Having come from procedural series, including his own Crossing Jordan, Kring said he saw an opportunity there when he conceived of Heroes, which was "a completely different animal" from his previous work.

 

He joked that quickly he wondered, "What was I thinking?" noting that a serialized show is "an absolute bear to do." Kring said he's also finding, "It's a very flawed way of telling stories on network television right now, because of the advent of the DVR and online streaming. The engine that drove [serialized TV] was you had to be in front of the TV [when it aired]. Now you can watch it when you want, where you want, how you want to watch it, and almost all of those ways are superior to watching it on air. So [watching it] on air is related to the saps and the dips**ts who can't figure out how to watch it in a superior way."

 

Kring said no final ending for Heroes has been conceived, noting, "We didn't have an island to get off of." On top of that, Kring noted that "My original idea was more of an anthological vibe to it, where you regenerate the characters."

 

Kring explained he had thought they could almost completely replace the characters each season, remarking, "I was primarily fascinated by the origin story. Once the original story is over, and the character has no more questions about what's happening or existential drama, then the questions become just about plot, and then it becomes harder for me personally to connect to."

 

However, Kring continued that, "The problem is you run into a whole series of issues, where show and business run into each other. The network falls in love with characters, the audience falls in love with characters, the press falls in love with characters. And it's contractually hard to get people onboard for a brief period." As a result, Kring said, "You find yourself writing for characters you thought would be gone."

 

Asked if the audience reaction ever influences the stories, Kring replied, "It's never directly, because we're so far ahead of them. We were shooting episode 13 [the final chapter of the current volume, "Villains"] when we launched [season 3]. Any feedback by the audience is irrelevant in terms of that. But bigger trends you want to follow."

 

Kring feels that gauging the reaction to a story "us generally not very calculable. It's the old adage, 'That's why god made chocolate and vanilla.' What one person loves, somebody else hates. It's really hard to discern 'Is that a trend or one guy's opinion?' Reading chat boards can be a study in futility, as far as that's concerned."

 

Kring said that he felt the shorter "Volumes" Heroes does now, as opposed to season-long arcs, allows them to tell new or more casual viewers "every couple of months, 'come on in, the water's fine.' You can hop on the train and you won't have missed too much."

 

Heroes is written in an unusual manner, with each writer assigned to a different storyline (usually sticking with one character or pairing of characters). Kring explained how that worked when it came to the credited writer for an episode. After breaking the story and coming up with outlines, a first draft is assembled from all the different writers' elements. Kring said the first draft, "Is usually pretty hideous and has all sorts of problems and [notes are given] on it for better part of a day. Then, the same people go back and polish scenes." At this point, when the script is reassembled, "The writer of record takes it and now owns it and goes through the entire process from their end – draft to production, then studio, then network and has to own it from there on out, taking notes and [dealing with] production issues. That writer takes it through, and speaks for the script through prep and production. By the end, that writer, I think, usually has a real sense of ownership." That being said, Kring revealed that, "This season I've written five episodes so far, all by myself."

The discussion turned to "Exodus," the volume originally planned to follow last year's "Generations," until the writers' strike occurred. Kring noted several episodes of that storyline had actually been written, before the decision was made to nix it and re-shoot the ending of "Generations" so that a deadly plague is not released. Kring said "Exodus" would have been "Kind of overblown with tanks and people in hazmat suits."

 

An audience member asked about Caitlin, Peter Petrelli's love interest from Season 2, who was last seen left behind in a plague-stricken future – a future that thanks to the re-shot end of "Generations," doesn't exist. Kring revealed that if the strike hadn't cut Season 2 short, the plan was, "to get to [Caitlin] around episode 14 or 15, during 'Exodus'. She was a casualty of that storyline never being told." After the long hiatus during which Heroes was off the air, Kring said, "We realized that going back to [Caitlin] nine and a half months later would have been insanity." He felt that while there would "be some people asking about it, but for most people it would have been a hard left [in the story]." When the fan asked if Peter would ever acknowledge Caitlin or express any grief over what seems to be her dire fate, Kring replied, "No, we passed it. We leapfrogged it."He added that when the idea of returning to Caitlin was brought up, they asked, "Really? Are we going to risk that? We have enough stuff to [deal with]."

 

There was a planned spinoff of Heroes, Heroes: Origins, that also fell by the wayside thanks to the strike. Kring said that would have been an opportunity to go back to the more anthology based version of Heroes he'd first envisioned, as each episode would have been an independent story about a new character. He said he loved the idea of Origins, but after the strike, "the only thing that became important was getting Heroes back on the air."

 

That being said, Kring said he was "very interested in a more standalone version of Heroes. I think the show needs to move towards that in order to survive. I think the serialized format is very challenging on network television."

 

Another fan asked about Claire Bennet and her ability to heal others with her blood. Kring said a plot point like that, "Gives us freedom and then it screws us up. What often happens on a show like this is you often get boxed in – you set a fuse of something that's just too easy to use. A weapon that's just too sharp. Then you have to blunt it again. You have to figure out ways to take it away, once you've put it out there." Kring said another example of that is Peter Petrelli, who got to the point where "he's so powerful that there's no challenge for the character. So now we've found ways to wipe that out and bring him back to normal again."

 

Asked what he would do differently, looking back, Kring said, "It's very hard to be peoples' friends and colleague at the same time you're the boss. It's a constant struggle. I was a very reluctant boss." Kring referenced all of the various places his attention has been pulled in with Heroes, including all its various cross promotions and multimedia tie-ins and said that if he could do it all again, "I would probably delegate more responsibilities earlier, so it doesn't take so long [for others] learn it."

 

When it comes to time travel as a plot point, Kring said, "I'd encourage everyone to avoid it. It's a minefield that will make your mind explode. It will just drive you crazy. That's been something we've tried to use with a certain amount of rules - Not being able to change the future unless you go back. That device has been one of those that's just been so complicated for us." He added that when it comes to time travel, "We are taking a little hiatus from that for the next 12 episodes," referring to the next volume, "Fugitives."

 

Kring said he saw "Fugitives" as a chance "for us to wipe the table [clean]." Kring revealed that the big question that storyline centers on is, "What happens when our people have to go underground and go back to being normal after two and a half years of being superheroes?"

 

Asked what super power he'd like himself, Kring drew laughs, answering, "Time travel, so you can go back and correct all the mistakes you've made!" Kring went on to say, "I cannot stress enough the imperfect science that making a show is." He noted that on Heroes, "We often have three different directors working on any given day," and scenes from certain episodes shot months apart, because " Actors are not available, so you drop them in later. I have crazy stories on how this big giant mess is made every week. Once you get on the assembly line and you're cranking it out at the pace that we're doing, it's kind of a miracle that more stuff doesn't go wrong."

 

IGN.TV

[Happenstance]

Just been watching series 1 of Heroes again and something has me wondering. If, as we found out in series 3, Chandra Suresh was wrong about powers coming from the blood, how did he find all the people including Sylar on his list?

[Supergrunch]

Just been watching series 1 of Heroes again and something has me wondering. If, as we found out in series 3, Chandra Suresh was wrong about powers coming from the blood, how did he find all the people including Sylar on his list?

Their explanation was "through the human genome project," which shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the human genome project is, but let's swing with their made up version, which is something like a record of the DNA of each member of the population. So there'd still be a genetic marker for the powers, but you wouldn't necessarily know where in the body this was realised. Of course this is absolute rubbish, and they don't actually design the script to make sense or anything.

[Happenstance]

Going back to series 1, I miss Zach. I liked his interaction with Claire. I know the actor is on Terminator now and I think hes good in that but it is a shame the character couldnt come back every now and again.

[Retro_Link]

Heroes should have just kept it simple: Genetic code + Eclipse = Powers Materialise.

 

Should have kept Sylar bad and killed him off as Season 1's Villian, or had him come back bigger and stronger in a later series.

Keep one main Villian per story arc.

Should not have duplicated powers all over the place [except for where it makes sense e.g. Matt and his Dad, but vary it slightly].

Should have kept a tighter cast of characters instead of having LOADS that last for fuck all time [most of the time]!

And stop completely reinventing the main characters; we grow to like them for a reason!

Stop getting rid of the good characters that actually bring something to the show e.g. Adam, Maurry etc... and keeping the ones that yes maybe cool but are ultimately meaningless e.g. Knox, Flint etc...

 

oh I could go on forever so may aswell stop!

 

Basically it's a mess!

[Supergrunch]

Actually yeah, Zach was cool, he made Claire's story more bearable. I suspect they've mind wiped him out of the show for good though.

 

Heroes should have just kept it simple: Genetic code + Eclipse = Powers Materialise.

 

Should have kept Sylar bad and killed him off as Season 1's Villian, or had him come back bigger and stronger in a later series.

Keep one main Villian per story arc.

Should not have duplicated powers all over the place [except for where it makes sense e.g. Matt and his Dad, but vary it slightly].

Should have kept a tighter cast of characters instead of having LOADS that last for fuck all time [most of the time]!

Stop getting rid of the good characters that actually bring something to the show e.g. Adam, Maurry etc... and keeping the ones that yes maybe cool but are ultimately meaningless e.g. Knox, Flint etc...

 

oh I could go on forever so may aswell stop!

Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of that.

[Happenstance]

Something needs to be done with Hiro aswell. They need to either get rid of the character in one heroic act or really think hard to find him a proper place in the Heroes universe. Ever since the end of series 1 hes just felt tacked on because he was so popular.

[jayseven]

Well according to what Dante said, looks like there'll be no time travel for the next 12 episodes. I guess we'll have the stupid Laurel and Hardy Ando and Hiro comic relief games still. Siiiiiiigh! All because they don't know what to do with a really cool power doesn't mean they should degradate the character until we hate him just so they can off him at some point.

[Retro_Link]

Hmm...

 

So turns out Knox is the Haitians brother, pfft... whatever!

Is that just so we can have a good Haitian and a bad Haitian! Anyways surely the Haitian can just take Knox's powers away, so what did he mean he once managed to defeat him?

 

Yeah sure Angela and Noah, taking Claire to an everyday house and not even locking the doors properly was the best choice!! better than locking her in a company cell anyday... not!

 

And how come last time there was an eclipse the people who already had powers [previous generation] didn't loose their powers then? They can't have done or else Angela etc... would have known what to expect from the eclipse!

 

Oh and now that no-one has powers, why doesn't Angela just round everyone up on her side and just go and shoot Arthur!! no-one ever think of that?!... just like they never use the Haitian when they could!

 

Sylar is BORING!!

 

And Peter better get his powers back as soon as the eclipse has passed