So why are you Racist?

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I'm not accusing you of this but your post reminded me of it. I hate it when black people use the race card or the slavery card. Some people use it as a get-otu-of-jail free card or a instant argument win card. And has anybody noticed that 90% of black comedians' joke are about racism? I watched this black guy on Have I got news for you (can't remember his name) and then he was also on Live at the Apollo. He started his act with some jokes about growing up in London being black and being a "nigger" in school. And it was funny at first but his whole routine was about racism. And I've noticed it with other black comedians. Ok it's funny up to a point but change the tune. And surely they are just reinforcing this "barrier" between black and white people by constantly going on about it. That's why I think the law against racism creates a lot of racism. It creates a sense of "us and them".

 

Has anybody seen "Shoot the Messenger"? It was on sometime last year and was about a black teacher who kept giving black students detention to try and give them extra lessons. But then all of the black people started calling him racist and he went off the rails. It was really good and explored issues such as how black people staying together in one community prevents them from getting good jobs and stuff.

 

Those comedians don't care, they just say the joke, everyone laughs, and get paid. Race-related comedy acts have been around for looooooong time and they're still going strong and there is a reason for that - It seems their largest audiences, white people, love a good Nigger joke.

 

That 'they're using the race card' comment is getting a bit cliched now. Sometimes it IS because a person is Black. I mean why on earth would there be 'whites only' signs in that era in America? It IS because you're Black! And elements of those attitudes still remain. But a decent Black person wouldn't even play the 'race card', for example if I got turned down in a job then i tell myself I just wasn't good enough; I work harder.

 

That's bollocks. Why should I pay for a crime my ancestors caused that is in no way related to me?

 

(Sigh) Firstly, what 'crime' are you referring to? And read again; I said if the crime your ancestors committed is BENEFICIAL to you in anyway, then yes, it does affect you doesn't it?

[M-PG71C]

I fail to see how you could think that the systematic hatred against an entire ethnicity could ever be legitimate. Being closed minded and ignorant is never legitimate, especially not when it outs itself in racism.

 

"Legitimate: not spurious or unjustified; genuine"

 

The keyword ignored in my post is, "fairly" before legitimate. It is not totally justified, in other words, it is not totally legitimate. You have to read the whole sentence. Everything has a reason for why it happens, therefore there is some justification for it. That does not make it right or completely legit however.

 

There is no such thing as a black and white issue unless it is textbook.

[MoogleViper]

Those comedians don't care, they just say the joke, everyone laughs, and he gets paid. Race-related comedy acts have been around for looooooong time and they're still going strong and there is a reason for that - It seems their largest audiences, white people, love a good Nigger joke.

 

That 'they're using the race card' comment is getting a bit cliched now. Sometimes it IS because a person is Black. I mean why on earth would there be 'whites only' signs in that era in America? It IS because you're Black! And elements of those attitudes still remain. But a decent Black person wouldn't even play the 'race card', for example if I got turned down in a job then i tell myself I just wasn't good enough; I work harder.

 

 

 

(Sigh) Firstly, what 'crime' are you referring to? And read again; I said if the crime your ancestors committed is BENEFICIAL to you in anyway, then yes, it does affect you doesn't it?

 

But do you agree with me that they are just perpetuating the "barrier" between black and white people? Surely if they disagree with racism then why make their whole act about it?

 

And I wasn't referring to any crime in particular I was speaking hypothetically.

 

And I misread the beneficial part. But I still don't think you should be held responsible. It's a tricky subject and you can be viewed as responsible when your recent ancestors committed certain acts. But remember times were different in the past. I'm not condoning any racism, holocaust, genecide etc. But what's done is done and surely it is better to learn and forgive than to hold grudges to the innocent and be stuck in the past? Sure maybe a sorry would be an easy thing to give. But crime and war has been happening for millenia. One nation may be the villain in one instance but the victim in another.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

"Legitimate: not spurious or unjustified; genuine"

 

The keyword ignored in my post is, "fairly" before legitimate. It is not totally justified, in other words, it is not totally legitimate. You have to read the whole sentence. Everything has a reason for why it happens, therefore there is some justification for it. That does not make it right or completely legit however.

 

There is no such thing as a black and white issue unless it is textbook.

 

Okay, I can sort of understand that, like for example Saracens Vs the Crusaders, in that scenerio there is a reason for one another to hate each other. But hatred that is formed from nothing is just pure evil.

[MoogleViper]

Okay, I can sort of understand that, like for example Saracens Vs the Crusaders, in that scenerio there is a reason for one another to hate each other. But hatred that is formed from nothing is just pure evil.

 

In most cases it isn't formed from nothing. Like M-PG said people usually have a reason. In cases like wars it is often the government and media that creates the hatred.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

But do you agree with me that they are just perpetuating the "barrier" between black and white people? Surely if they disagree with racism then why make their whole act about it?

 

And I wasn't referring to any crime in particular I was speaking hypothetically.

 

And I misread the beneficial part. But I still don't think you should be held responsible. It's a tricky subject and you can be viewed as responsible when your recent ancestors committed certain acts. But remember times were different in the past. I'm not condoning any racism, holocaust, genecide etc. But what's done is done and surely it is better to learn and forgive than to hold grudges to the innocent and be stuck in the past? Sure maybe a sorry would be an easy thing to give. But crime and war has been happening for millenia. One nation may be the villain in one instance but the victim in another.

 

They may well be perpetuating the race barrier, but again they can give two shits about it just like rappers who use words to exploit their own people, as long as their getting paid who the F cares? Millionaires like Chris Rock will just continue to play that stereotype because its paying his bills for his mansion.

 

I agree its tricky, but in todays age of higher civilisation and relative peace showing a little awareness of past wrongs isn't so bad. The Queen and Tony Blair fell shy of giving a full apology for England's role in the slave trade, while our mayor Ken Livingstone issued an apology and was apalled by Tony Blairs attitude. You have to ask why is it so hard to simply say sorry for atrocities the nation was clearly apart of, it seems pride got in the way...Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't recognise the holocaust gets jail time. Well...Whatever, I agree though its all in the past and surely forgive but NEVER forget and a historically documented acknowledgement of historic wrongs go about in making sure it never happens again.

[MoogleViper]

They may well be perpetuating the race barrier, but again they can give two shits about it just like rappers who use words to exploit their own people, as long as their getting paid who the F cares? Millionaires like Chris Rock will just continue to play that stereotype because its paying his bills for his mansion.

 

I agree its tricky, but in todays age of higher civilisation and relative peace showing a little awareness of past wrongs isn't so bad. The Queen and Tony Blair fell shy of giving a full apology for England's role in the slave trade, while our mayor Ken Livingstone issued an apology and was apalled by Tony Blairs attitude. You have to ask why is it so hard to simply say sorry for atrocities the nation was clearly apart of, it seems pride got in the way...Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't recognise the holocaust gets jail time. Well...Whatever, I agree though its all in the past and surely forgive but NEVER forget and a historically documented acknowledgement of historic wrongs go about in making sure it never happens again.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for acknowledging them and I agree that a simple sorry wouldn't go amiss. But I don't agree with people being held responsible. I've got to go now so I'll finish this post later.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

In most cases it isn't formed from nothing. Like M-PG said people usually have a reason. In cases like wars it is often the government and media that creates the hatred.

 

But in the case of the example I gave earlier of being anti-African/Black, I see no reasoning...Unless in some distant mythical past ancient Egyptians came by the coast of England to buy and use only English slaves to build their pyramids. Or created psuedo-science to prove that English people were an inferior breed...

 

Africans didn't do that but Europeans did. Even today, you'd think there is enough fodder for Black people to go all KKK and go out in lynching mobs to hunt white people or have a deep rooted hatred for white people...But most don't.

[M-PG71C]

In most cases it isn't formed from nothing. Like M-PG said people usually have a reason. In cases like wars it is often the government and media that creates the hatred.

 

Exactly! For example, lets take a good look at 9/11 and what the Bush Adminstration did to fuel the war machine. 9/11 was caused by al-Qaeda co-op'ing with the Taliban, that is common knowledge. We went to Afghanistan to blow up several training camps held by them and destroy their logistical capabilities. All of that is justified, it had to be done or they would have done it again. It was approved by every major country because what the group did was terrorism, that was blantant.

 

But....more than a year later (2003) Bush went into Iraq. But under what justification? WMDs and that Saddam was in a clear breach of contract, but there was no clear intelligence he ever had it. So how does he get the people to line up with him to go to war?

 

Simple, confuse the hell out of the public. He claimed Saddam had WMDs and had the logistics needed to give them to al-Qaeda. However, he put way more stress on the latter, that al-Qaeda will get the bomb and kill millions. But if you put the facts together, al-Qaeda did not have one damn thing to do with Saddam or Iraq for that matter.

 

Well, now you are left with a lot of confusion on who exactly is the enemy? Is it the Taliban? al-Qaeda? Saddam and the Iraq regime?

 

What is not a better way to conduct war than to target a country, state all three are in there ready to kill everybody (although that is not exactly the case), and state 9/11 several billion times? Now you have a bunch of Americans who absolutely hate Muslims in generaly and we can thank Fox/CNN and the government propaganda machine for all of it.

 

What's even sadder? Even though a lot of the people want out of Iraq now, they don't even know why they want out. Sheeples are amazing, aren't they?

[DCK]

"Legitimate: not spurious or unjustified; genuine"

 

The keyword ignored in my post is, "fairly" before legitimate. It is not totally justified, in other words, it is not totally legitimate. You have to read the whole sentence. Everything has a reason for why it happens, therefore there is some justification for it. That does not make it right or completely legit however.

 

There is no such thing as a black and white issue unless it is textbook.

Don't you see that doesn't make any difference? Any degree of legitimacy is excluded by the very definition of racism. Sure you might understand why it happens, but that doesn't make it legit.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Don't you see that doesn't make any difference? Any degree of legitimacy is excluded by the very definition of racism. Sure you might understand why it happens, but that doesn't make it legit.

 

Yeah, I think legitimate was the wrong choice of words... There may be a reason but it isn't a 'legitimate' one.

[Jamba]

Don't you see that doesn't make any difference? Any degree of legitimacy is excluded by the very definition of racism. Sure you might understand why it happens, but that doesn't make it legit.

 

Nice to see one of these discussions get resolved peacefully rather than spin widly out of control. Think that you all have very vaild points.

 

Also nice to see a good view point from what its like inside the media prison which is the states. Can't believe that people didn't catch on to the "wrong-ness" of the war earlier though. Interestingly, I was in Manhattan a month after 9/11 and was pleasantly surprised to see that practically no one was angry. Everyone was just very shocked, sad and wanted to get on with their lives. Glad that the Marathon helped that.

[M-PG71C]

Nice to see one of these discussions get resolved peacefully rather than spin widly out of control. Think that you all have very vaild points.

 

Also nice to see a good view point from what its like inside the media prison which is the states. Can't believe that people didn't catch on to the "wrong-ness" of the war earlier though. Interestingly, I was in Manhattan a month after 9/11 and was pleasantly surprised to see that practically no one was angry. Everyone was just very shocked, sad and wanted to get on with their lives. Glad that the Marathon helped that.

 

People can be easily mainuplated, regardless of where you live. All it takes is a little confusion and a big lie. You can't escape it UNLESS you know what is going on and sometimes that can be next to impossible. One good thing about the U.S. is that nothing really ever escapes it as far as information is concerned. If someone wanted to find out the truth, it is not that difficult and you are not going to get killed over it.

 

But that is not to say the U.S. was alone in the whole Iraq deal, Great Britan was also very much interested in the money involved. People say the money is in the oil, that is not the truth. The money is in the services. The two countries are much more closely allied than a lot of people see. I've seen this in the military way too often and politics alone even show it.

 

Which is good because Great Britan kicks ass IMHO, but it can be bad because when the two countries put their might together, no-one stands a chance toppling a giant that large. The U.S. is huge but Britan is one helluva a force to deal with, this is the same country that has the single most elite special forces on this planet. The U.S. Delta Force may be infamous but everything they know and everything they train is from the British SAS.

 

But I digress, I've went on too long.

 

As for 9/11, I was impressed with the reaction. I mean, this IS New York and people quickly mobilized and helped each other out. Business's fed all the service workers for free, everyday citizens risked their own lives saving people in the debris, it was quite a sight honestly.

[Sheikah]

I have to agree with someone further up, far too many black comedians use routines that pretty much focus on the fact they're black. It's rather annoying because if they had been born white they'd be screwed.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I have to agree with someone further up, far too many black comedians use routines that pretty much focus on the fact they're black. It's rather annoying because if they had been born white they'd be screwed.

 

Then tell the white audience to stop going to their shows, their the ones paying to see that crap.

 

People can be easily mainuplated, regardless of where you live. All it takes is a little confusion and a big lie. You can't escape it UNLESS you know what is going on and sometimes that can be next to impossible. One good thing about the U.S. is that nothing really ever escapes it as far as information is concerned. If someone wanted to find out the truth, it is not that difficult and you are not going to get killed over it.

 

But that is not to say the U.S. was alone in the whole Iraq deal, Great Britan was also very much interested in the money involved. People say the money is in the oil, that is not the truth. The money is in the services. The two countries are much more closely allied than a lot of people see. I've seen this in the military way too often and politics alone even show it.

 

Which is good because Great Britan kicks ass IMHO, but it can be bad because when the two countries put their might together, no-one stands a chance toppling a giant that large. The U.S. is huge but Britan is one helluva a force to deal with, this is the same country that has the single most elite special forces on this planet. The U.S. Delta Force may be infamous but everything they know and everything they train is from the British SAS.

 

But I digress, I've went on too long.

 

As for 9/11, I was impressed with the reaction. I mean, this IS New York and people quickly mobilized and helped each other out. Business's fed all the service workers for free, everyday citizens risked their own lives saving people in the debris, it was quite a sight honestly.

 

Britain is a Juggernaut...In sheeps clothing. Just when you thought all was safe and peaceful....BAM! the Empire strikes back; colonialism II.

[Oxigen_Waste]

So, where are now?

[JoeTrumpet]

Then tell the white audience to stop going to their shows, their the ones paying to see that crap.

 

People seem to do that a lot. You can complain about the man telling the jokes, or you can complain about the thousands of people that rally him on. I'd say it's more the fault of the people that support it fiscally than the comedian. Though the comedian tells the jokes, the hundreds of thousands of viewers support it whole-heartedly. Not that it really bothers me: plenty of comedians don't resort to that, so I never need to come across it.

 

Anyway, more on topic, I am not a racist in the least. I acknowledge, quite bluntly in most cases, the differences between cultures, but I regard none as less than my own (I am a Cuban of Spanish and Greek descent). I have, however, experienced it: in an apartment complex we once lived in full of older white residents, the residents would complain about us being too loud and other nonsense. I had my bike stolen from a bike rack filled with other bikes (though I suppose this might not have been racism), and someone vandalized the bulletin board with "Viva Fidel!" and blamed us for it. Obviously, my parents wouldn't support Castro since they left that country, but people were happy to blame us.

 

Even so, I'm very happy with the progress of society. As the older generation is replaced with the younger progressives, these old prejudices are quickly dying out, and I look forward to the day when racism is virtually a nonfactor. Pointing to American politics, Barack Obama's victory in South Carolina, a historically less progressive state than some others, received 50% of white voters under 30. That's fantastic. Sure, he received only 16% of votes from people 60+, but the youth is where the future is. The world has made great strides, and I see it all getting better.

[AshMat]

There's this asian guy in my science classes (who nobody likes anyway) keeps saying shit to me about being white, said i remind him of the milky bar kid at one point "Yeah what's goin on white boy".

Doesn't really bother me, yes, i am white, well done.

 

But one day he'll say it to the wrong person and get a punch :P

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

There's this asian guy in my science classes (who nobody likes anyway) keeps saying shit to me about being white, said i remind him of the milky bar kid at one point "Yeah what's goin on white boy".

Doesn't really bother me, yes, i am white, well done.

 

But one day he'll say it to the wrong person and get a punch :P

 

A punch to the gut will cure him...Or you could just always return the favour whenever he says it. My Black friend says stuff like that to my White friend, so he uses that opening to dig deep on the insults. ^^

[Ryan]

Black girls aren't attractive to me. Didn't vote in that last thread..

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Black girls aren't attractive to me. Didn't vote in that last thread..

 

Thats alright, just leaves more for me. ^^

[Rummy]

I have to agree with someone further up, far too many black comedians use routines that pretty much focus on the fact they're black. It's rather annoying because if they had been born white they'd be screwed.

 

I find this annoying, people who complain about their routines. Do you hate the fat people who make fat jokes, gay people who make gay jokes etc? There's the demand for it, and in fact, a good joke tends to be one that puts someone down(the best being themselves, as they're the one most likely to be offended, so everyone else isn't). I'll admit I've seen a few who rely on the stereotype too much, and I usually just turn over. There is also the fact that when they do the joke, they can get away with it, whereas a white person can't without being branded racist. As for race cards, I don't personally like them, but they DO sometimes exist, and I think it's fair game a few times cos there has been some pretty bad oppression in history.

As for how racist I am, I'd like to think I'm not, but I think I am a bit. Prejudiced on race that is, with stereotypes and stuff, but I don't hate a particular race or anything(i might judge this or that in my mind, but i think all humans do). Me and some of my mates(of various colours, mainly white) make loads of race jokes, and if someone overheard, they might be quite shocked, but we're half laughing at the idea of racism and how silly it is, plus I think the N word is a fantastic word, I wish it wasn't racist lol. We make a big joke out of racism, not race, or maybe I'm just trying to justify myself. There ARE race differences, and alot of antiracism tries to pretend there isn't, which is part of the reason that I think it doesn't work. I embrace the differences, and make jokes, and often at my own racial expense, but I don't think I really mean it. Then again, I'm also the two faced kind who can make my own racial jokes, but might get offended if certain people make them about me. It's very tricky territory.

 

EDIT:I think all the above probably applies to me and 'gay' too. I think gay's become a word in its own right, well out of the homosexual realm, and I love it too. I probably use it more than racist stuff though, maybe cos it's more commonplace and more accepted. I'm starting to think I'm a bad person now .

[Aimless]

I feel I should point out that black comedians whom focus on racism are by and large a positive thing. Jokes are excellent ice breakers, and what's more some can have lasting effects on people: they can give the audience a glimpse of a different perspective in a humorous way and often make us question those things we do without thinking. Racial humour is also a hallmark of social acceptance, as the more integrated a sect of society becomes the more it can joke about itself and appreciate when it's being ribbed.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't black comedians that exploit their colour, but to paint them all with the same brush is... well, ironic given the thread.

 

Incidentally, I won't personally apologise for the slave trade. That isn't to say it wasn't a terrible thing, but so was the holocaust; I had no hand in either. I can apologise for their happening in a sympathetic way, but for anyone to hold history against me is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned fathers can keep their sins: if we don't judge individuals by their own actions then racism will forever perpetuate itself through misplaced grudges.

 

On the flip-side I do think countries should acknowledge past crimes as it helps clear the air to a certain extent, but again said actions should not be held against a new generation.

[MoogleViper]

I find this annoying, people who complain about their routines. Do you hate the fat people who make fat jokes, gay people who make gay jokes etc?

 

Yes I do. I don't mind them making one or two jokes. But in my original post I said that I was annoyed with them making their whole routine/act about it.

 

I don't like Joe Brand. Every joke is either a fat joke, a woman joke, a man joke or a combination of the three. It's so boring. Just change the tune.

[Iun]

Why not ask the participating tribes in Africa for an apology too? They were culpable in their raids on other tribes to kidnap people for sale into bondage.

 

Unfortunately, slavery was legal way back when. I cannot and will not apologise for the mistakes of those before me, but I will do my damndest to make sure those mistakes are not allowed to happen again.