Will Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Personally I hope Blu-Ray wins. The only reason being that my HD-DVD player (360) is far too noisy to watch a film on and my Blu-Ray player (PS3) is completely silent and most suitable for films. I'm not going to buy another player so for me that will work out best. The big problem with the whole thing is that they didn't come to an arrangement before release and get one format out there. People didn't just upgrade to DVD because it was better quality - they upgraded because they had to due to everything being on DVD and not much being on video. With Blu-Ray/HD-DVD everyone still has to release everything on DVD while the two HD formats battle it out for a winner. Once this happens I'd say the transition to HD players and movies will start moving along much faster.
Jasper Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Its just a better product as well which the early adopters prefer. Blu Ray also has stuff like more space, scratch resistance, variety of players being made by every company outside of Toshiba. With hddvd you only really have Toshiba as your choice and a spec thats below Blu ray. It also helps that the PS3 is the best HD player on the market by far. It just works effortlessly and gives the best Picture. Not to mention future compatible. You know, all your arguments are so easy to take down. "It's just a better product" - keep youyr personal taste on the side. "Blu-Ray has stuff like more space, scratch resistance" - more space, yes, if you're talking data, not if you're talking movie. The compression is better on HD DVD. "A spec below Blu Ray" - honestly, again that's your opinion. The specs are equally good, movies run fine on it. That the PS3 is the most powerfull player out there, much more powerfull than any HD DVD player except Xbox, is not a valid argument. "It also helps that the PS3 is the best HD player on the market by far." - Again, that's you personal opiinion. It's not the best HD Player, because it's not actually an HD player. If you take all the other functionality out of the PS3, then it's just another player. It's dishonnest saying thatBluRay wins because of the PS3 being the best player. "It just works effortlessly and gives the best Picture. " - I think that, if I read this thread and some arguments posted, that Blu-Ray and HD DVD give the same quality picture and sound. So all your 'just better' arguments are worthless now. Don't twist my words - I'm only speaking from the marketing side. And for marketing, Blu-Ray has huge advantages. I personally think that this war will be won by the choice that Apple makes. Call me a fanboy, but all those USB ports you're using wouldn't be there if Apple didn't put them on their iMacs. All those iPods out there - even the fake ones - wouldn't have been a huge market like it is now without Apple. And the computer industry as a whole wouldn't have been anything without Apple's early computers and GUI. Don't forget, Bill Gates used Macs as inspiration (wich isn't an accusation, I don't want to start that again, but every gets influenced and inspired by what happens around them - watch 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' for more background on that). So if Apple decides to go only for Blu-Ray, than it's HD DVD that's in trouble. I know Apple is in the Blu-Ray alliance, but that doesn't mean they'll have to choose.
RoadKill Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I personally think that this war will be won by the choice that Apple makes. Call me a fanboy, but all those USB ports you're using wouldn't be there if Apple didn't put them on their iMacs. USB was initially an Intel standard, and if Apple had their way, you'd be seeing a lot more FireWire; which to be honest I support for anything that requires the speed, but for everyday low speed devices, USB is cheaper and perfectly acceptable.
Guest Jordan Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 USB was initially an Intel standard, and if Apple had their way, you'd be seeing a lot more FireWire; which to be honest I support for anything that requires the speed, but for everyday low speed devices, USB is cheaper and perfectly acceptable. Thats actually true facts. Apple love Firewire... shame basically nothing outside cameras and old MP3 players use it. Bring on USB 3.0...
Jasper Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 USB was initially an Intel standard, and if Apple had their way, you'd be seeing a lot more FireWire; which to be honest I support for anything that requires the speed, but for everyday low speed devices, USB is cheaper and perfectly acceptable. Apple introduced USB to the iMacs, and from there it's popularity grew. Apple would have had their way nif they didn't charge that much, wich was the downfall of FireWire. Apple's own properties never really take off because of High pricing. But that's a little off topic, so let's go back to HD DVD vs. Blu Ray.
RoadKill Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 FireWire is more expensive to implement from a technical standpoint, not just a marketing standpoint, it is a superior standard in all respects, but it's more than you need for most devices, hence cheap USB.
Jasper Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Nope. It's licensing cost was way to high. Apple asked $1.50 per port, while USB only asked for a licensing fee of 25 cents. And, no offense, but the 'too much for most devices' is bullshit. Why is USB 3 going to be that fast, than? I doubt they won't adopt the USB 3 standard just because most mice don't need the speed. But back on topic.
RoadKill Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Nope. It's licensing cost was way to high. Apple asked $1.50 per port, while USB only asked for a licensing fee of 25 cents. And, no offense, but the 'too much for most devices' is bullshit. Why is USB 3 going to be that fast, than? I doubt they won't adopt the USB 3 standard just because most mice don't need the speed. But back on topic. Backwards compatibility; mice still use the lowest signalling speed, same with keyboards. However devices such as video cameras and external hard drives will want all the extra speed. You can put the highest end chipset you want in the host machine, but still run USB low speed devices on that very bus. I'm not contesting the royalty charges though (other than your incorrect pricing):- "the royalty which Apple Inc. and other patent holders have initially demanded from users of FireWire (US$0.25 per end-user system) and the more expensive hardware needed to implement it (US$1–$2) has prevented FireWire from displacing USB in low-end mass-market computer peripherals, where cost of product is a major constraint." citation: teener.com "One reason USB supplanted Firewire, and became far more widespread, is cost; firewire is considerably more expensive to implement, producing more expensive hardware." A reason for USB3's creation, beyond bandwidth concerns, is power and CPU resource saving: "Since all communication is initiated by a USB host, the host must periodically poll all those USB devices that can provide data at unexpected intervals, such as network cards and keyboards. This consumes unnecessary resources when the devices are idle. These issues are being addressed by the forthcoming USB 3.0 specification..." Which is something that as far as I'm aware, FireWire does already because as far as I'm aware, each FireWire device is more intelligent than a USB device controller
Jasper Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Yeha okay... But honestly, this is really getting off topic now. USB has barely anything to do with HD video formats, now does it? I just said that chances are that the market will mimic Apple's move. Don't forget that laptops are all mimicking Apple's original PowerBook laptops. And that Apple's iMac is being copied all over the place (I'm looking at you, Dell). And that the iBook was the first laptop to come with WiFi, is an all-copied fact nowadays. Apple is a trendsetter (again i'm not starting the discussion, it's just fact - Apple has such a legacy, that every other company follows to stay with the front-end).
Emasher Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Yeha okay... But honestly, this is really getting off topic now. USB has barely anything to do with HD video formats, now does it? I just said that chances are that the market will mimic Apple's move. Don't forget that laptops are all mimicking Apple's original PowerBook laptops. And that Apple's iMac is being copied all over the place (I'm looking at you, Dell). And that the iBook was the first laptop to come with WiFi, is an all-copied fact nowadays. Apple is a trendsetter (again i'm not starting the discussion, it's just fact - Apple has such a legacy, that every other company follows to stay with the front-end). Don't forget those new phones that look almost exactly like iPhones. I thought Apple was involved with both formats.
RoadKill Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Yeha okay... But honestly, this is really getting off topic now. USB has barely anything to do with HD video formats, now does it? I just said that chances are that the market will mimic Apple's move. Don't forget that laptops are all mimicking Apple's original PowerBook laptops. And that Apple's iMac is being copied all over the place (I'm looking at you, Dell). And that the iBook was the first laptop to come with WiFi, is an all-copied fact nowadays. Apple is a trendsetter (again i'm not starting the discussion, it's just fact - Apple has such a legacy, that every other company follows to stay with the front-end). No contesting that, Apple is fucking cool, and companies want to emulate their success. I do think that if Apple start shipping blu-ray drives with their machines it will start tipping it further in blu-ray's favour by quite a lot - especially seeing as Apple Macs are associated with video editing and production anyway.
fex Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 No contesting that, Apple is fucking cool, and companies want to emulate their success. I do think that if Apple start shipping blu-ray drives with their machines it will start tipping it further in blu-ray's favour by quite a lot - especially seeing as Apple Macs are associated with video editing and production anyway. You nailed it, a large proportion of the media industry use Mac's and if apple start placing Blu-ray drives in their machines then alot of 'indie' film makers will go blu, which will push the format futher. THE BIGGEST BLOW FOR HD-DVD Warner Bro's have just annouced they are backing Blu-ray. I think that pretty much confirms it that Blu-ray is the next thing to succeed DVD. I can't see HD-DVD pulling any ground back, which is unfortunate. Proof
Emasher Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Just heard about WB, No way HD-DVD will win now.
Caris Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Well, i don't agree with what Jordan and Nintenchirs say. WB (Warner Bros) are going to take a side in early 08, they don't want to be neutral anymore. If they go Blu, Blu-ray will have nearly 75% of all the movie companys on there side which means that HD-DVD will be pretty much dead. If they go Red it's gonna be pretty much a stalemate again. Most people are saying WB are waiting to see what the sales are like over the Holiday Season then there gonna make there move, there also saying that it will more likely be Blu. He was right! This is amazing new's for Blu-ray and the PS3. There's rumors floating about that Apple will be including blu-ray players in there computers at Macworld this month. It would be the icing on the cake if that happened.
Daft Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 At the moment I just want one of the formats to keel over and die so I can commit. Looks like its going BluRay so I may pick up a PS3 by the end of the year.
fex Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 I now feel I could happily spend £300 on a PS3 and buy Blu-ray movies risk free now. Sad day for HD-DVD, great day for consumers (apart from those who bought into HD-DVD). R.I.P HD-DVD
DCK Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Damn, that sucks. HD DVD was the more sensible format. Meh, can't say it really matters. Hope the Bluray disk prices go down though. And I hope Sony won't be such a bitch about this (although they probably will be).
Hero-of-Time Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Great news for movie lovers like myself who have been sitting on the fence, time to start buying me some Blu-Ray.
fex Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 I will hate buying my PS3 and first few blu-ray movies, funding sony's awful recent reputation. I'm sure time will pass, and when im watching Die Hard, 300 and planet earth in HD then all will be forgotten.
Mr_Odwin Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 This is on the front page of doom9; it sums up how I feel: Buying into any format that could reliably prevent you from ever making a backup copy goes against everything this site has ever stood for - so if you care at all for what you can do with movies you pay good money for, you should stay away from Blu-ray just as any music buyer should stay away from DRM infected online music. And just so that it is said again: Blu-ray champion Sony has single-handedly killed RipIt4Me, is behind ArCCoS, has infected millions of PCs with a rootkit and has been peddling proprietary formats over standards for decades (MiniDisc, ATRAC, MemoryStick and UMD are just a few examples leading up to Blu-ray).
Mr_Odwin Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Get real there's a difference between backup and pirating. 99% of dvd movie backups arent really backups. Also its not like Blu ray will be copy free for long You know more than doom9 about BD copy protection? Interesting.
fex Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 The people saying HDDVd is going to die dont understand that HDDVD will die when Toshiba decide. hddvd could have 1% of sales but its up to toshiba when to pull it. If HD-DVD ever had 1% of sales I would be considered dead whether toshiba pull it or not
RoadKill Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Some of the things Choze says are fair enough, some of them make my head hurt, and show lack of research
Marshmellow Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 So I am thinking of picking up Planet Earth in HD. I have both a PS3 and the 360 HD DVD Drive. Now should I pick it up on HD DVD or Blu-Ray? Please back up your answer with good, solid facts. Atm I'm thinking HD DVD, because in the 10 or so movies I've watched HD DVD audio > Blu-Ray audio.
Jasper Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Blu ray is also a data disk. Extra's on HDDVD are in SD instead of HD often because of lack of space. Its cheaper for smaller companies to use single layer disks instead of double. HDDVD is ill equiped here. Way to go ignoring scratch resistance. Its an extremely nice feature. I honestly don't think that Toshiba would release HD DVD if it isn't the slightest scratch resistant. I think the specs speak for themselves. :awesome: The specs are equal! They both output HD visual and audio, so the soecs ARE the same. Well you certainly cant discredit the PS3. One of the main reasons for buying into HD is quality. Blu ray wins on that front and PS3 wins on the player front. It even easily bests Pioneer's £1000 effort. It's not because it's a PS3 that all of a sudden your movies will be 2140p, you will have the same quality of movie like on any Blu-Ray player. The PS3 is an dishonnest exaloke because the PS3 can do loads of other things, too. You could say the Xbox 360 can do all that too, and still people discredit the 360 anyways. On paper the movies should be fairly similar but when you take into account the movies and players its a different story and one where PS3 will give you the best result. Again, if mt movie runs in 1080p at 60 fps with Dolby Digital Audio, than it can't be better on PS3 than it is on any standalone player. It does, it has most of the industry behind it and a better product to sell. That's not marketing. Marketing means getting your name out there, being known, and being known for what you do. BluRay is better marketed as an HD format than HD DVD. Again, you have reduced marketing to something it totally isn't is. Marketing isn't getting as much companies behind you - that's just strategy. Marketing is getting people to know your product and love it. Maybe a MacBook isn't so good of a computer at all, but Apple's marketing still makes a big fuzz around it and people want it. That's marketing. Not really. But they are Blu ray if you needed to know. I know that, but that doesn't mean they'll only support it. There are some rumors that Apple is working on a hybrid drive for it's computers, to give that possibility to professionals. I would understand why Apple would want to stay clear of choice. Apple are a great company and deserve many props. I salute them. But you know where they are going. Lets not act surprised when the anouncements come. I'm not going to act surprised, and yes, Apple is probably supporting your overloved Blu-Ray format, but if Hybrid drives are announced, I will personally see to it that you het laughed in the face. Deal? But the cards are officialy dealed. Toshiba is in huge trouble and is looking into how it can ever defeat Blu-Ray if even it's major contributor, Warner,has given up on them. Toshiba cancelled their HD DVD conference on sunday and seems very sad about Warner leaving the game. The war, my friends, is almost over.
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