I'm furious at Nintendo AS A PUBLISHER...

[AshMat]

Why can't i? Are you going to stop me?

I can't say "I think halo could beat mario in Europe and America"?

Sorry, i just had laugh at that comment.

[mcj metroid]

Why can't i? Are you going to stop me?

I can't say "I think halo could beat mario in Europe and America"?

Sorry, i just had laugh at that comment.

it's worldwide sales for a reason. I'm not going over every point that zechs made again but every game is judged on worldwide sales.....

[AshMat]

Yeh, but i'm sayiong that America and Europe could be where halo does better. IThat's what i came to say, not to talk about wordwide sales.

If you really think Mario's going to do better, you'll tell me that mario is going to win in those territories, not that i ahve to count wordwide sales.

[mcj metroid]

I believe mario win do better in europe yes... But for america.. i'm not sure yet.. But what the hell I'm going to say that mario will win in all territories.

[AshMat]

Now saying it because i mentioned that you weren't saying it

 

It's ridiculous to say i'm not allowed to say that i think it could do better in America and Europe.

[Gizmo]

Can I just say:

 

Zechs: Caris's point is that Halo will sell more in the areas were they both do well. Japan is "left out" of the equation for this comparison because it's clear that it just doesn't do well there. Caris is comparing the sales were both are going strong, as a more direct difference. When he says "you only want to count Japan because your not confident in Mario outdoing Halo in the US alone" he means to point out that the comparison would be slightly shaded as it's not a "fair" comparison.

 

Caris: Zechs is trying to say that no matter how badly the 360 sells in Japan, it should still be counted overall, as thats no fault of Nintendo's and therefore Mario would be losing out on one of its more strong regions.

 

Wow I still can't find the words.

 

Basically: Caris wants to compare them directly to the region to see which sells better in a competitive region; Zechs argues that the whole world is the competitive region.

 

Wow this is a dumb arguement, even for NEurope:laughing:

[Caris]

Erm, i know what he means i'm not stupid. I just don't agree.

[tapedeck]

This thread has fallen into sheer ...well, disrepute. The thought provoking, intellectual threads get 50 posts yet this has over 200. I'm going back to the drawing board. Let's just create controversy! Battallion Wars Wii will NOT sell hardly any units. Or how about Wii Fit is just eye toy for your feet. Wow, it's suddenly so easy to create threads with over 200 thought provoking, interesting points. Am I missing something? I guess a good argument is what really pushes people to say what they think. Verociously!

[Dilli Gee]

I didn't create this thread to become what it has become.

 

I was annoyed at how the Wii is lacking core gamer titles.

[dannbrownn]

I didn't create this thread to become what it has become.

 

I was annoyed at how the Wii is lacking core gamer titles.

 

I am working on a post that will stick us straight back on topic, and hopefully clear some things up, perhaps i will not try to clear things up and just focus on getting back on topic!

 

I'll be back later!

[Dilli Gee]

I think if we're going to compare MGS to Nintendo (as publishers), then this is my analysis:

 

Microsoft Game Studios knows that third parties love to develop casual games, that attract the mass audience, e.g. EA Sports titles are hot sellers.

 

Because they know there's no shortage of casual games, MGS focuses its time and effort (read: money) on core gaming titles, e.g. Blue Dragon, Bioshock.

 

MGS out sources a lot of these games, because let's face it, they're not game developers. These titles don't sell as well as the casual games, but still have their audience.

 

The feeling I get from Nintendo is that they don't care for the core gamer - sure, SSBB, MP3 and SMG are for the "fans", but as said earlier, for every core gamer title on Wii, there are 4 or 5 on the 360.

 

Why doesn't Nintendo directly focus on bring more credible games to the Wii, and leave the casual stuff to the third parties, who seem to thrive on mediocre?

 

The one thing I loved about GameCube was that Nintendo's first/second party games were at the top of their league. Now it seems they're thinking with their wallets, not their heart.*

 

http://n-europe.com/news.php?nid=11029

 

This is a good example of Nintendo doing the complete opposite of what they should be doing...

[Zechs Merquise]

Haha keep your panties on.

 

Anyways i'm not bothered what you say i will be comparing Halo's sales from the US and Europe.

 

Ok, well in thatway, all I can say is Woooo Gamecube onwed the XBOX, fucking hell weren't XBOX sales poor!

 

BTW, I'm only counting Japanese sales because I want to try and prove a point and will choose the best territory to pluck figures from to make it look like I'm right!

[Caris]

Yeah Xbox was shit, all shooters.

 

Gamecube ftw.

[Zechs Merquise]

Yeah Xbox was shit, all shooters.

 

Gamecube ftw.

 

Can't you see I was being sarcastic? I was using your twisted logic to prove something that simply isn't true.

[Hellfire]

I didn't create this thread to become what it has become.

 

I was annoyed at how the Wii is lacking core gamer titles.

 

I'm annoyed that people think this with Zelda, Excite Truck, Red Steel, CoD4, MoH,SSX,DBZ, etc. In fact, most of the Wii games I see on the shelves are for "core gamers". Can't vouch for their quality, but can't vouch for the quality of most other consoles' games either.

[immy]

I'm annoyed that people think this with Zelda, Excite Truck, Red Steel, CoD4, MoH,SSX,DBZ, etc. In fact, most of the Wii games I see on the shelves are for "core gamers". Can't vouch for their quality, but can't vouch for the quality of most other consoles' games either.

 

one good game in that list mate and one alright game

[jammy2211]

I think if we're going to compare MGS to Nintendo (as publishers), then this is my analysis:

 

Microsoft Game Studios knows that third parties love to develop casual games, that attract the mass audience, e.g. EA Sports titles are hot sellers.

 

Because they know there's no shortage of casual games, MGS focuses its time and effort (read: money) on core gaming titles, e.g. Blue Dragon, Bioshock.

 

MGS out sources a lot of these games, because let's face it, they're not game developers. These titles don't sell as well as the casual games, but still have their audience.

 

The feeling I get from Nintendo is that they don't care for the core gamer - sure, SSBB, MP3 and SMG are for the "fans", but as said earlier, for every core gamer title on Wii, there are 4 or 5 on the 360.

 

Why doesn't Nintendo directly focus on bring more credible games to the Wii, and leave the casual stuff to the third parties, who seem to thrive on mediocre?

 

The one thing I loved about GameCube was that Nintendo's first/second party games were at the top of their league. Now it seems they're thinking with their wallets, not their heart.*

 

http://n-europe.com/news.php?nid=11029

 

This is a good example of Nintendo doing the complete opposite of what they should be doing...

 

So just explain to me how nintendo arn't focusing on the core still? Cause when I look at it, every franchise we loved on the GameCube is on the Wii (Pikmin will be annouced soon, Star Fox is gonna happen), and Nintendo are still making the games to a quality level we very much expect. Look at Metroid Prime 3's reception, and the best is yet to come.

 

Your opinion on MGS baffles me but fair enough, I can't be arsed to debate that. Just how you've come to the opinion Nintendo arn't still dedicated to their core base, when they're pretty much got everything we had during the GameCube days (and more), confuses me.

 

Even with the DS, Nintendo are publishing alot of these casuals games, sure, but the ones they develope internally are normally far more then just your casual puzzlers or trainer. I don't think Nintendo are going to risk losing the market that sold so many games during the GameCube era.

[dannbrownn]

Why the Hell is it failing to excite me as a gamer?

 

Sure, casual games are fun and sell really well, but Nintendo has a loyalty to its core gaming audience, and it's failing to deliver. Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 aren't enough in my books. I want more original titles Goddamn it!

 

Microsoft Game Studios is releasing a new big-name exclusive each month (Bioshock and Blue Dragon last month, Halo 3 this month, PGR4 next month, Mass Effect in November, Lost Odyssey in December).

 

Only 2 of these titles are sequels, the rest are original games.

 

I'm afraid it's true, Nintendo are losing their video game making edge... to Microsoft!

 

Let’s roll.

 

Nintendo’s Publishing and the Wii.

 

Firstly I think that to compare it to anything else is always going to have a bias one way or the other so I will try and talk purely about Nintendo and the Wii.

 

Lets get one thing out of the way though, to quote compare the releases of the coming months for Xbox and Wii is a completely false argument as both consoles are in completely different stages of their life cycles, and M$ had the advantage of being the only next gen system for a year. Whereas most people looked down on the wii and didn’t think it would sell well during that same period.

 

On to the real stuff.

 

One year ago Nintendo were preparing to launch a system that (if not for the DS) could have been make or break for the company. Nobody could have ever predicted just how well this would sell, and it is still selling under it’s own power rather than any particular killer app.

Nintendo are a business trying to make as much money as possible so I can’t help but wonder if the wii hadn’t been selling so well whether or not we would have seen more key Nintendo franchises make earlier appearances.

 

However lets look at what they are doing. A quick scan of the wii games page on the awful Nintendo site shows the current Nintendo games either released or in development:

 

Bwii,

Big Brain Academy

Excite Truck

Mario Party 8

(it’s not listed but lets add Mariokart here)

(Add Mario and sonic here)

Mario Strikers Charged

Metroid Prime 3 Corruption

(once again not listed but lets add Pokemon Battle Revolution)

Super Mario Galaxy

Super Paper Mario

Super Smash Bros. Brawl

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Trauma Centre: Second Opinion

Wario Ware: Smooth Moves

Wii Sports

Wii Play

Wii Fit

 

(Look at how many of the real classic games they have on the VC as well, I still can’t get enough of the original Mario Bros and Donkey Kong!)

 

Then there are the games that we have seen hints of and all the others like Star Fox, Animal Crossing and PikMin that are bound to get an airing at some point. We out of the above list only four will not be available in Europe at the end of this year which means there is a total of 14 games that will have been released in the first year, which is not bad, even though not all of them are ‘proper games’ (wii play) and not all of them are first party developed, the fact still remains that that list has some of the best games in the current industry in it.

 

Then there are the weird ones Disaster Day of crisis and Project H.A.M.M.E.R but we will ignore them and put them in the ‘what the hell is going on category’ add to these the titles we can’t even imagine, eg, could you have imagined PikMin on the GC before it was unveiled?

 

I always say, who knows what they have up their sleeves.

 

Nintendo have/will put plenty of fun games out this year and just think about what we might be looking at this time next year is a truly intriguing thought, we will have all the games on that list as well as unknown titles and the franchises we know are going to burst out at a press conference soon.

 

I think I will cut my post shorter than I had intended as once again I have spent far to long one only one of the area’s I had wished to cover!

 

Finally I must also reiterate a point made by zechs, the whole casual/core games thing is a ridiculous proposition, the only place that the idea actually exists is on some high paid ‘consumer psychologists’ desk as they tell M$, sony and Nintendo and the like how to target different people.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, if a game is fun has it not achieved it’s goal?

 

Hardcore? Casual?

 

A rose by any other name.

[darksnowman]

Finally I must also reiterate a point made by zechs, the whole casual/core games thing is a ridiculous proposition, the only place that the idea actually exists is on some high paid ‘consumer psychologists’ desk as they tell M$, sony and Nintendo and the like how to target different people.

 

Casual and core stuff are two deadly pidgeon holes to try and put gamers into cos like... sure you have people that play Brain Training or just Fifa or whatevers casual, then we have those who frown upon the likes of Wii Sports and who are shut in their rooms playing RPGs, huge MMO's, Halo and whatever else we call core...

 

The thing is, personally I have games from all over the spectrum and love em all- and I'd dare say that most people do as well so where's the third letter box for these "misc" gamers?

 

Sorry, bit of a mini rant there and not aimed at you dannybrowny, just using your quote to justify myself. Great post though dann.

[Dilli Gee]

Core games tend to be niche titles, that may sell less, but get a cult following. Hardcore gamers = core gamers.

 

Casual games are titles that are aimed to a mass audience.

 

There is some overlap, but it's usually two separate camps.

 

Examples:

 

The Harry Potters games are casual games. They're not particularly hard or challenging, quickly produced and marketed for all.

 

Oblivion on the other hand is a core game. It's for a niche RPG-loving audience, and is incredibly difficult. Nothing casual about it.

 

WoW is an example of a game that's a bit of both. There are hardcore gamers, that aims for the top, but the game is designed for casual gamers too. Hence its success.

[Hellfire]

one good game in that list mate and one alright game

 

I didn't list all the games and that's not the point( and I like 5 in there), show me the list of good games in 360's first year line up. Then consider the fact that developers are getting a grasp on a new control method.

[Speedfreak]

Nintendo are making, what, 2 casual games for Christmas this year?

 

OH NOS WE'RE DOOMED.

[dannbrownn]

The thing is, personally I have games from all over the spectrum and love em all- and I'd dare say that most people do as well so where's the third letter box for these "misc" gamers?

 

That sums up my games collection as well, i have spent over 80 hours on pokemon diamond and many more hours on other games such as rainbow six vegas on the 360, but i still love playing Big brain academy on the wii and i am currently locked in a high scores battle with two people from work! I also love wii sports so where are the games aimed at me... surely all games want to sell as many copies as possible?

 

Anyway, i agree that most people probably have all sorts of games that they enjoy, which removes the idea of core and casual, so who knows why there has been such a big deal made of it all. I think that Nintendo's endless talk about the casual market could easily lead to this 'Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore' idea, even though it clearly hasn't, they have just added 'casual' on top of what they already did!

 

Nintendo are making, what, 2 casual games for Christmas this year?

 

OH NOS WE'RE DOOMED.

 

lol brilliant

[c0Zm1c]

The feeling I get from Nintendo is that they don't care for the core gamer - sure, SSBB, MP3 and SMG are for the "fans", but as said earlier, for every core gamer title on Wii, there are 4 or 5 on the 360.

The same was said last generation though, with people moaning about Nintendo's Gamecube games being very few and far between. I don't think it's that they don't care, they're just not as prolific. In my opinion, Nintendo's games are usually worth 4 or 5 equivalent titles on other console platforms anyway.

 

So I see their taking the time to produce high quality titles as a good thing myself.

[Goron_3]

Nintendo are still caring for the core gamer; we've basically got all their games apart from Pikmin and F-Zero. The problem is however is that they don't want to develop too many new franchises for the hardcore gamer.