Games that were almost great

[Dcubed]

So I had a thought (I know, very dangerous thing to do), and I was thinking about some games I love certain parts of, but ultimately they just don’t come together to make a truly great game.

This could be a game that you generally really enjoyed, but is let down by one critical flaw that ruins it for you.  Or a game which you don’t generally like as a whole, but really like certain parts of, or games that are almost really fantastic? But ultimately just don’t quite hit the mark for various reasons…

… and I’m gonna kick this thread off with one of the first examples that springs to mind for me…

What’s up motherfucker!!

I utterly adore the dialogue, characters and story in HOTD Overkill.  It’s a brilliant Grindhouse Comedy Horror that leaves me in stitches any time I watch its cutscenes.  But if you strip all of its presentation away and look at the gameplay alone as a HOTD game? Ehh…

Ultimately, once you look past the brilliant grindhouse presentation, it’s just not a very good HOTD game.  The pacing is completely off, it’s ridiculously slow, the enemies and set pieces just aren’t very interesting and are sparsely laid out across each level (which all just drag on and on), and the boss battles are utterly uninteresting from a mechanical standpoint.  Unlike all of the other HOTD games (which were all built for the arcades), this was designed from the ground up as a console game, and unfortunately it really shows in the final product; as it’s painfully obvious that the developers felt the inevitable need to drag out the game’s running time with tons of bloat in order to justify the full priced retail purchase.  What should be a snappy 30-45 minute roller coaster ride ends up being a 4-6 hour long slog.

And it’s a goddamned motherfucking shame, because I bloody LOVE the dialogue and characterisation in this game.  If you’ve never played it? I would still recommend playing it the once, or at least watching someone else play it, because it’s actually one of the most well written comedies that the video game industry has ever seen.  I’d totally watch the crap out of it if it were remade into a movie! But sadly, I can’t bring myself to ever play it again; the gameplay just isn’t good enough, and it has no replay value inherent to the gameplay.

So what other examples spring to mind for you? Post ‘em here! I might even agree with some of them if I’m feeling generous

Edited April 15, 2023 by Dcubed

[WackerJr]

Good idea for a thread! Here are a few off the top of my head:

Sonic Adventure 2 DX (GameCube)
That camera! Oh, that camera! Sega were still getting to grips with how to get Sonic to work in 3D (some would say they still are…) but this was a huge improvement over the first Sonic Adventure game. While the speed of the Sonic / Shadow levels were the better ones, the mix of gameplay types for the different characters added variety, but every good idea was completely ruined by a terrible, TERRIBLE camera and the frustration it caused.

Star Fox Adventures (GameCube)
I was excited when this was first shown as Dinosaur Planet on the N64. A Zelda-esque adventure from a games developer on great form sounded like a sure-fire win. When development moved to the GameCube and the Star Fox crew were swapped in, the game looked wonderful (the fur, look at the fur!). The linear gameplay though, was just so dull though. I didn’t mind the flying sections, which were short and broke things up. It was just the on-foot action, which had little flexibility and just had something missing.

Smash Bros 3DS (3DS)
Cramming everything onto the small 3DS was a monumental achievement! Before the Switch was a thing, being able to play Smash on the go was a marvel. I found it a real shame that they removed so many of the single player features from previous games in the series. Smash Run couldn’t fill the void left by the lack of other modes. Local multiplayer I’m sure would’ve been a blast, but sadly I didn’t have other friends with the game, so I was left with the lack of single player modes.

Settlers IV (PC / iOS)
I loved Settlers. I spent hours playing Settlers 2, and Settlers 4 seemed to play similarly, but improving the interface and ease of placing buildings. The Dark Tribe was where the game shifted down into mediocrity and frustration for me though. It was tough, very tough! Settlers was never an easy game, but the relentlessness and volume of Dark Tribe enemies obliterating any plans was soul destroying.

In a game where you had to trust the CPU pathfinding skills, the game created a element where if any characters came into close contact with bad terrain they were killed instantly, meaning you lost many of your characters when you simply had no control.


I feel I’ve used my reply to simply vent about some games I had such high hopes for, and ended up so disappointed with the experience I ended up having! Thanks! [emoji23]

[darksnowman]

On 15/04/2023 at 12:28 PM, Dcubed said:

So I had a thought

It gets easier after the first one. Or so I've heard.

Not so straightforward to make the distinction between games that were a letdown and those that are almost there but don't quite manage greatness. Then there's the great games I have niggles with that are still great. Here's a few I think could have been great--I'm sure I could think of plenty that snatched mediocrity from the jaws of greatness if I could consult a list of everything I ever played. 

Mario Golf: On Switch. With improved golf mechanics I would have expected this to be a regular fixture. I can't help but feel they've gone in the wrong direction with golf and tennis since the N64. A less abrupt ending to the single player RPG would have been nice, too. But gameplay is king so the game would still be lacking without nailing that. If there'd been a demo I wouldn't have bought the full game. The Game Trial put me off Tennis.

Paper Mario: The Origami King. Very good game that regrettably just lacks that secret sauce. Second Sight could have done with that extra something too to make it a great... so long since I played it I can't say what would have been. I feel like SSX On Tour missed the mark after SSX 3 being excellent but maybe I'm splitting hairs and it was still great anyway, just less great.

Forsaken 64. Buttery smooth to play yet not that satisfying and pretty devoid of personality overall. Could have been a deathmatch mainstay with GoldenEye and Duke Nukem 64 if it didn't feel so soulless. It's a tough one to quantify.

DK64. The pads. The hold this press that button combinations. The Kong changing. Rare had the chops to deliver an all-time great but we ended up with a reskinned Banjo-Kazooie instead. Hollow. And Nintendo shouldn't have sold them so they could course-correct on the GameCube. You wouldn't be wrong to point out this one's further from greatness than this thread is looking for. DK Racing would have been great if it came out.

Which brings me to...

RPGs like Persona 5, Persona 3 (no doubt Persona 4), Xenoblade... just trim it down! You can tell a story that takes me places and makes me feel I've overcome the odds in half the time. I thought DQ VII and IX (great games for the record) were exceptions in this respect in that series but it seems to be spiralling out of control too. Insert justbecauseyoucandoesntmeanyoushould.gif here. One-player games going on and on like this just subtracts from their greatness, imo. Yes, I'm attached to the characters. Yes, I've enjoyed growing their stats and getting them better equips. Yes, it's been a journey for the ages in some memorable locations with great music but it can end now and I'll start a new file if I want more! Oh, it's only the halfway point... nooooooo. No doubt these are still great games but let the point stand. If they could just leave me wanting more because coming away wanting less leaves a bad taste.

Sports Story. Years after Golf Story and it still came out rushed.

They were onto something with Dragon Quest Treasures. Better monster variety could have tipped it over into greatness. (Okay, you got me. That'd only make it greater.)

@WackerJr I'd like to replay SFA because I look back on it pretty favourably. Not saying it doesn't have its issues but I wouldn't put it a million miles off greatness either. I don't mind it being linear so if they made that c-stick menu more intuitive, had the Arwing bits feeling more like Lylat Wars (I'm okay with them not being the focus of the game but they could still be improved) and reworked one or two of those tests/trials that would elevate it in my book. Might be able to come up with a longer list of gripes if I played it within the last 20 years... Fox doing a mini wind kick like Jago was always pretty cool I thought. However I think Sonic Adventure to Battle would need a ground up rebuild to get it anywhere near the greatness conversation...

Now Jet Force Gemini! Change that forced Tribal hunt for something optional and we'd have a great game I'd actually finish.

[CrowingJoe79]

I think RE5 is just as good as RE4, quite frankly. I know this, because it has the same exact gameplay and so on, only this time with a full co-operative mode. Yet in Crazy Land, RE4 always tops all. La la la, la la. You know?

I mean, RE4 is a great game. But it's a terrible RE game in general, because it has too much action and a deliberate emphasis on being a murderer of infected personnel. The story is hardly relevant to past RE canon either. You could easily avoid playing the previous numbered entries and it would hardly feel like anything important was missed out on.

They mention Raccoon City and of course the reasons for shutting down Umbrella. But I feel like it's just a cheap, subtle way to link it to the previous entries. Remove that stuff altogether, and then it's not really connected to RE at all. It's more like an entirely new game that should have been called, "U.S. Secret Service Agent: Run from Da Spanish Villagers." LMAO.

Even so, the amount of folk who both love and defend that game's legacy online is kind of both striking and downright nippy, at least in my eyes. For I mean, really. I'll bet they never even played RE1, 2, or any of the games with fixed camera angles from the classic era of survival horror, because third person shooters are all the rage. But RE4 is not a true horror game. I know I must have told people that hundreds of times online over the years to no avail, but I digress. It's hardly a horror game.

Again, all the links to a parasite making people hostile and bursting out of their torso and so on, is to make you think it's a horror game. There are certainly a few tough cookies like the chainsaw sub-bosses and flying insects that could intimidate inexperienced players, but I think having a merchant selling you a million guns at his stalls is just such a ludicrous concept, and RE4 helped to kill the series. And I stick by my opinion...

Edited November 1, 2023 by CrowingJoe79

[darksnowman]

Sounds like you're saying both are great but RE4 is overrated? It's definitely a darling of the Internet, I'll give you that.

To begin with, they worked Nintendo gamers into a frenzy with REmake and the ports, courting a new generation of RE fans with those dated and archaic entries (couldn't even grace them with the N64 RE2!) before blowing them away with an all-new title that was unlike anything anyone imagined RE could be. And with a chainsaw controller! All the while, series veterans on Playstation looked on in envy as their beloved RE entered uncharted territory graphics and gameplay-wise—it was beyond their wildest dreams and a bitter pill to swallow seeing it on GameCube. So when it went back over to Playstation, they were wound up with more tension and anticipation than anything the Spencer Mansion ever whipped up in them. And the game's status endures. Probably influenced by those pesky Nintendo mags that went overboard with acclaim just because an (at the time) exclusive RE was on their dinky little console. If those reviews weren't out there in print they'd have scrubbed them from the annals of history from their pain and anguish at the Playstation port getting expanded content. Now they were left looking on enviously, barely clinging to the fact it at least had inferior graphics.

And to this day, both sets of fans can't get enough of it.

Notwithstanding any of that, you're right: RE4's a daft game.

Personally, I've only got REmake and RE5 (from the eShop) and neither is almost great, they're both outright great. Five's controls and pace took me some getting used to but after a while I adjusted to the new gameplay style. I agree that survival horror takes a backseat in favour of frantic action. It's unfortunate but still makes for an enjoyable game of a different kind. And like you're getting at, the storyline flows just fine jumping from one to five. I wonder if four's story was different before they scrapped what they were working on and re-did it in the new style.

It says a lot about the gameplay of REmake that I'd gladly play the rest of the pre-4 games if they were to get the REmake treatment. How about starting with getting the N64 RE2 on NSO or even just selling it on the eShop!? The Nintendo audience is so far down Capcom's list of priorities it's not even funny.

Anyway. This is getting a bit off the topic of the current thread.  If you like RE5 maybe you could start a new file in 4 keeping in mind the aspects of 5 you like that are present in 4 and see if you gain any newfound appreciation for what they were going for.  

[Glen-i]

20 hours ago, darksnowman said:

Notwithstanding any of that, you're right: RE4's a daft game.

And that's why it's the best Resi Evil game. Revelations being a distant second. And everything else sucks.

So says a clear expert on the franchise.

[darksnowman]

2 hours ago, Glen-i said:

And that's why it's the best Resi Evil game. 

2 hours ago, Glen-i said:

So says a clear expert on the franchise.

You'll be able to say which one/s are almost great.

[EEVILMURRAY]

On 10/11/2023 at 11:33 PM, darksnowman said:

Paper Mario: The Origami King. Very good game that regrettably just lacks that secret sauce. Second Sight could have done with that extra something too to make it a great... so long since I played it I can't say what would have been. I feel like SSX On Tour missed the mark after SSX 3 being excellent but maybe I'm splitting hairs and it was still great anyway, just less great.

I dunno about Paper Mario, I thought it pulled it off nicely. Waaay better than the Wii travesty.

Second Sight I tried going through a couple of years ago. I get what you're saying, I had to force myself to go through some levels and haven't completed it. I think they tried to do too much, is it a sci-fi, is it a stealth, is it a shooter... I found myself doing the Hitman of trying to sneak and when I didn't hit that one millisecond chance to move past someone you're resorted to whip out the guns like Arnie and go Commando on everyone, with little opportunity to do some of the nice psychic action the game's USP was going for

[CrowingJoe79]

23 hours ago, Glen-i said:

And that's why it's the best Resi Evil game. Revelations being a distant second. And everything else sucks.

So says a clear expert on the franchise.

I know this guy on a site called Biohaze who loves RE6. It was his first ever RE game. So that's probably why he loves it. But while I don't think 6 is especially amazing, some aspects to it like the zombies and Neo-Umbrella storyline makes you know it's a RE game. Although if you play RE7 or 8, they just feel like indie games giving a tighter budget. Nothing about them says RE to myself, until Chris shows up.

I do tire of seeing remakes, however. Konami is basically planning more SH remakes after Silent Hill 2 and possibly new installments. Whether Bloober Team is handling those too is not yet known.