Returnal (30th April 2021)

[Sheikah]

I think the reputation for the difficulty level comes more from having to restart when you die rather than the game actually being hard. Like you, I never really struggled with the game and the boss fights weren't a patch on some of the things that get thrown at you on Housemarque's previous games.
I have actually started a new run today. It's a little confusing how it works. I was making my way through the first area and all of a sudden I took a door and ended up in the third, completely skipping the second. I then I had to fight the boss in the third in order to make it to the fourth.  

There is always a shortcut in both biomes 1 and 4, letting you skip past biomes 2 and 5, respectively. In biome 1 the shortcut to biome 3 is if you hookshot a couple of times over a gap/bridge to go through a door rather than go through the usual Stargate-like portal. In biome 4 the shortcut is just before the boss, near the regular portal to the next level. That shortcut involves you dropping down into the water to skip to biome 6.

The guaranteed pickup at the start of biomes 2, 3, 5 and 6 ups your proficiency level a significant amount if you are under levelled (e.g. due to skipping biomes) so it makes using the shortcuts viable. Basically these shortcuts let you skip to specific biomes quicker in case you need to do just those biomes (e.g. missing collectibles).

Basically, if you don't want to skip biomes then don't take those shortcuts. You will generally be quite a bit weaker and have less gear if you skip biomes.

[Hero-of-Time]

I finished my second playthrough of the game this evening. I collected all the sun...piece...thingies and was hoping I would get the final ending. Nope. Gotta make my way to the final boss and kill it again.  

At least I've managed to find all the collectibles in one of the areas. 1 down and 5 to go...

[Hero-of-Time]

Finally got the true ending. Yeah, not worth it.  To be fair, it wasn't that bad to get. I just skipped most the areas and was lucky enough to grab a gun that shot phase rounds. At first I thought the rounds were coming from enemies. It then dawned on me what was going on.  

Now the slog for the rest of the collectibles beings. Time to pray to the RNG gods...

[Hero-of-Time]

Finally!

Man, the last 2 collectibles ( 1 in levels 2 and 3) took some finding. I spent the best part of yesterday evening running through stages and hoping that they would appear. Nothing. I fired it up again this morning and ended up finding both of them in the space of 2 minutes and on the same run. Crazy.

After these popped, it was then just a question of doing the daily challenge. Thankfully it was pretty straightforward and only took one attempt.

I'm glad the grind is over. It was essentially just running through each of the stages, avoiding all enemies and just hoping the game decided to be nice and give you what you need. It's a very weird trophy set when compared to other 1st party games. They are usually quite straight forward but here there's a stupid amount of luck involved. It's the same for the trophy lists in most of Housmarque's other games, where is all about skill rather than luck.

Overall, not a bad game but not a good one either. For me, it's easily Housemaque's weakest effort.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hero-of-Time

[drahkon]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's a very very trophy set

It really does seem like a very very trophy set  

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

For me, it's easily Housemaque's weakest effort.

Aaaaaand you're banned.

In all seriousness, awesome job  

[Hero-of-Time]

12 minutes ago, drahkon said:

It really does seem like a very very trophy set

Haha. That was meant to say weird. I do like a very very trophy set though.  

[drahkon]

*cough* ehem *cough*

YES!

[drahkon]

Today's the day  

Quote

The moment many of you have been waiting for is almost here!

Our free update, Returnal: Ascension is out tomorrow today(March 22nd, 2022)! 

Ascension brings us two new modes: co-op in the main game, and the Tower Of Sisyphus, the new endless mode.

Ascension update blog post

Will I give it a go later?
Probably not. I've borrowed Kena: Bridge of Spirits and reeeaaally want to start it.

[Hero-of-Time]

6 hours ago, drahkon said:

I've borrowed Kena: Bridge of Spirits and reeeaaally want to start it.

Cracking game. Hope you enjoy it. 

[drahkon]

3 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Cracking game. Hope you enjoy it. 

I'm hoping the same  
My sister's boyfriend recommended that I start on the highest possible difficulty. He said I'd like it.
We'll see  

Anyways, Returnal's Ascension update is live. (coincidentally I've just won an Ascension 20 run in Slay the Spire ).

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

I'm hoping the same  
My sister's boyfriend recommended that I start on the highest possible difficulty. He said I'd like it.
We'll see  

Anyways, Returnal's Ascension update is live. (coincidentally I've just won an Ascension 20 run in Slay the Spire ).

Yup, the difficulty of the boss fights should please you. It's just a shame the higher difficulty level for the trophy is locked behind a playthrough of the game. They should really patch it so it's there from the start. That difficulty setting was a much more challenging but satisfying experience for me.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Started this the other night. What a game. It's wicked. Looks great, sounds terrific, and feels so awesome to play.

We haven't had the PS5 for too long, and I've only really been playing PS4 games on it thus far. Booted up Returnal and thought that the shoulder buttons of the controller felt weird. The L2 trigger felt stuck or stiff. Either that, or the R2 trigger felt loose. I hadn't felt it on the other games I had been playing recently (Miles Morales, hnggggg), so had a bit of concern that we had broken the controller already.

Ladies and gentleman, this guy has only just discovered the adaptive triggers. 

Feels like I'm playing a game in 3022.

[drahkon]

2 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Ladies and gentleman, this guy has only just discovered the adaptive triggers. 

Play Astro's Playroom as soon as possible.
Best platformer in ages and the DualSense is showcased marvelously.

[Fierce_LiNk]

2 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Play Astro's Playroom as soon as possible.
Best platformer in ages and the DualSense is showcased marvelously.

Yeah, I've been told to play this, but just haven't done it yet.

Will give it a blast this weekend. 

[Fierce_LiNk]

Right, so...I've played a few more sessions with this and I've got a lot to say.

Firstly, this game gets top marks for its atmosphere, gunplay, music, sound, graphics, and for having an interesting premise. It's brilliant science fiction and it makes me think that this is sort of what Ridley Scott should have been aiming for with Prometheus instead of attaching the Alien 'lore' to it. There's a great idea here. It feels very next level in many ways and futuristic, especially with the adaptive triggers on the controller. Genuinely blown away by all of those aspects.

Unfortunately, I've given up on the game as the gameplay 'loop' is too big a barrier for me to see past or work beyond. It's just too damn demoralising to play. I've seen posts from @Sheikah saying that this shouldn't have been a roguelike and he is 100% spot on with that. This is the only reason why I am putting the game down and won't revisit it.

It's probably one of the most frustrating games I've played for a very long time...because I actually really like it. When I'm playing it, and in the midst of a fight, it's all rather fun. Then, you die...and you have to do it all over again, from the beginning. It's a shit design choice. In lots of ways, it's rather insulting to a person's time. In theory, you could spend 3 or 4 hours playing this game, dying repeatedly, without actually making further progress with the narrative or progressing through the game toward its final conclusion. That doesn't sit right with me morally. 

When you also look further into that roguelike design, it actually doesn't stand up to scrutiny either. One example is that I picked up the Atropian Blade and died shortly afterwards. Initially, I was quite annoyed, thinking that I would have to start from scratch and work my way back to the blade in order to then make further progress, as these are the rules established so far in the game. You die, you lose everything, you start over. But, for some unknown reason, you get to keep that weapon. You get to keep some of those suit upgrades, but not others...which either isn't explained at the early stage of the game or is never explained. It's a tedious thing that unfortunately pulls one out of the experience and just reminds you that it's a game. If the game really wants to stick to its core roguelike principle of "you die, you lose everything", then you truly should lose everything. But you don't, you get to keep the blade and some of the upgrades. Just not any of the other stuff that could be useful to you at the early stages to keep you playing the game, but hey ho. If I can keep the blade, why can't I keep all of it?! Why can't I keep that weapon that I died with, but I get to keep the blade?

I've mentioned earlier about the game being insulting to a person's time and I'm going to revisit that part one more time. The game forces you to start from scratch and busily avoid not dying. You shoot lots of shit to stay alive to get stronger so that you can stay alive for longer. But, unfortunately, you have to play for a significant amount of time for that to really benefit you when making progress through the game. You can't sit down for 10, 20 or even 30 minutes after work or before going out somewhere, because the game doesn't work that way. The game wants you to sit for hours and hours, doing the same thing over and over, so you can make tiny baby steps. If you make one mistake or get to a really difficult section, it's just too bad, you've got to do it all over again, with the added bonus of the entire map changing. Unfortunately, it's a terrible design choice and has completely put me off the game. Ironically, for all of the talk of the SoulsBorne games being 'difficult', at least the game design there seems fair. You die, but every time you play the game, you make progress of some kind, whether that's the ability to upgrade your weapon, or collect souls or echoes to help you become a stronger character. It's an infinitely more rewarding game than Returnal and is far, far more respectful to your time. 

Gutted that they've attached such a terrible design choice to what is an excellent game. Or rather, the individual components are excellent, wrapped up in a very demoralising, frustrating, and painful loop. Meh. Huge disappointment.

[drahkon]

17 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

If the game really wants to stick to its core roguelike principle of "you die, you lose everything", then you truly should lose everything.

And that's why I, personally, always make the distinction between a rogue-like and a rogue-lite, the latter being a game where you can unlock upgrades/equipment/etc. that persist throughout runs.
And that's why I'd call Returnal a rogue-lite.  

Anyways, not going to try and make you feel different about the game. It seems you really dislike rogue-lites/likes. I gotta ask, though: Didn't you know this was a game from that genre? If you knew beforehand, you probably would've known that this one isn't for you.

[Hero-of-Time]

Welcome to the Rogue genre, @Fierce_LiNk. Some games do well and others have too big of a barrier. For me, Returnal falls somewhere in the middle.

Like Shiekah, I also said the game didn't need to be a Rogue type game. It had all the elements of something great but was let down by the genre Housemarque picked. Combat, graphics, art style and sound design were top notch but the genre hinders the gameplay and the narrative.

I tend to find that I enjoy games in the Rogue genre when you are rewarded even for a little progress.  I'm not a huge fan of the genre but this year I've played and platted Dead Cells, Hades and Children of Morta, all 3 were fantastic experiences. I think each of these games respect the players time and also help struggling players by being able to level up certain things in each run. This makes it feel like no run is ever a waste, even if you make very little progress.

As I mentioned after I finished the game, I think it's Housemarque's weakest game but I do appreciate them wanting to try something different. 

Did we ever get sales numbers for the game? I'm curious to how well it sold compared to their other games. I imagine it done a lot better as it had a more mainstream appeal than say Alienation or Nex Machina, which is by far their greatest achievement and one of my favourite games of the PS4 generation. Funnily enough, I was just listening to the soundtrack for that game today whilst at work. Amazing OST.

Anyway, shame it didn't land for you, Flinky but at least you gave it a fair shake.

[Fierce_LiNk]

10 minutes ago, drahkon said:

And that's why I, personally, always make the distinction between a rogue-like and a rogue-lite, the latter being a game where you can unlock upgrades/equipment/etc. that persist throughout runs.
And that's why I'd call Returnal a rogue-lite.  

Anyways, not going to try and make you feel different about the game. It seems you really dislike rogue-lites/likes. I gotta ask, though: Didn't you know this was a game from that genre? If you knew beforehand, you probably would've known that this one isn't for you.

(the gods of Wikipedia call it a roguelike)

I don't necessarily dislike those games and will never outright choose not to play a game because it belongs to a certain genre or style. I played this because the sci-fi elements seemed interesting and I loved the premise behind it. I'd rather give it a go and give it a chance, rather than dismissing it outright. The first few hours I spent with the game were fantastic and I had a blast with the gunplay and soaking in the atmosphere. But...there's only a certain amount of times you can keep dying repeatedly without progress being made before some of the nicer elements lose its sparkle. 

It's a shame, because I think it's totally the wrong choice and hinders its accessibility to a wider audience. At least scale it up and make the initial first area a bit more forgiving, to ease players into it gently or at least allow 'some' progress to be made. 

Ultimately, I think time is precious. If I'm going to have x amount of hours available to me, I'm using that time for something useful. The game just feels quite insulting to that, because you could spend hours and hours and get nowhere, due to how the game is designed. Can't be fucked with that. 

[drahkon]

 

Interesting.

I disagree, but interesting  

[Fierce_LiNk]

23 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Welcome to the Rogue genre, @Fierce_LiNk. Some games do well and others have too big of a barrier. For me, Returnal falls somewhere in the middle.

Like Shiekah, I also said the game didn't need to be a Rogue type game. It had all the elements of something great but was let down by the genre Housemarque picked. Combat, graphics, art style and sound design were top notch but the genre hinders the gameplay and the narrative.

I tend to find that I enjoy games in the Rogue genre when you are rewarded even for a little progress.  I'm not a huge fan of the genre but this year I've played and platted Dead Cells, Hades and Children of Morta, all 3 were fantastic experiences. I think each of these games respect the players time and also help struggling players by being able to level up certain things in each run. This makes it feel like no run is ever a waste, even if you make very little progress.

As I mentioned after I finished the game, I think it's Housemarque's weakest game but I do appreciate them wanting to try something different. 

Did we ever get sales numbers for the game? I'm curious to how well it sold compared to their other games. I imagine it done a lot better as it had a more mainstream appeal than say Alienation or Nex Machina, which is by far their greatest achievement and one of my favourite games of the PS4 generation. Funnily enough, I was just listening to the soundtrack for that game today whilst at work. Amazing OST.

Anyway, shame it didn't land for you, Flinky but at least you gave it a fair shake.

Completely agree that the genre choice is not necessarily one I'd pick. It's very off-putting. There's more they could have done to at least balance the game and make it a bit more rewarding every time you die. There's too much punishment and very little going the other way.

You've summed up my thoughts with your second paragraph. I made several runs today and gained absolutely nothing. There's too much potential for wasted runs in this game and the gameplay loop encourages players to give far too much time towards each loop. It gets repetitive too quickly. Dying over and over isn't fun unless it's leading up to something or it has some sort of worth, like you unlock a path or get to a new area. But, this game doesn't have that. I would totally keep the 'world changing after every death' element, but more has to carry over in between each run, thus leading to shorter runs.

It's an utter shame, because I want to get to the next areas and find out where the story goes. I love everything about the game bar this one element, which unfortunately is turning out to be too big to ignore. 

[drahkon]

Good. The more people play this, the better  
Now please, Housemarque, announce your next game.

(also...I still need to trophy hunt and actually play the Ascension update - THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME FOR ALL THESE GAMES)

[Julius]

We previously heard that Returnal was coming to PC in early 2023, but now we have a date: February 15th. 

 

[Dcubed]

Nice.  So that pretty much just leaves GOW Ragnarok, GT7, TLOU Part 1, Horizon FW, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart and Demon's Souls left to go as far as Sony's PS5 output goes

Hopefully they'll go back and start porting over their PS4 & PS3 games afterwards.  Would love to see the original GOW trilogy and Ico/SOTC/TLG come to PC!

Edited January 18, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]