Fierce_LiNk Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Haha, lucky buggers. Hardly a week since the last one, and you've got another one to moan at. Well, this title says it all. Who invented what...does it matter? The first thing i've noticed is that this board is just like the old gamecube discussion board during the time when the gamecube was launched. What i mean is that there seems to be this sort of rivalry between nintendo fans and everyone else. Personally, i don't see it as a war. We all like our games, so technically we're all the same. It's just we choose to buy different consoles and different games. Although, it gets on my nerves a bit reading posts where someone says "die microsoft" or "sony sucks!". This reminds me of football fans, who will say that Arsenal are shit just because they're manchester united fans. I don't think it works that way. Instead of being Pro-nintendo, many people are just becoming anti-microsoft/sony. Ok, now, i've also noticed that people will say "sony r crap. Nintendo invented analogue sticks, d-pad, blah blah blah". Does it really matter? Well, it sorta does. It's good to know that Nintendo are trying to change things, but so are Microsoft and Sony. We are all changing, the only difference is we all have different visions. For example, Microsoft want to give gamers a great online service. They more or less have with Xbox live and the ability to download to the xbox hard drive. Surely this is also innovation? It also gets on my nerves that people are getting a little mixed up. Nintendo didn't really invent analogue sticks, they were just the first ones to make them standard in controllers. This is very different to inventing something. Nintendo had analogue shoulder "air" buttons, but they didn't make them industry standard. Shoulder buttons and rumble are now industry standard. Another thing is, it is sometimes good for others to "copy" ideas. If they didn't, then maybe we wouldn't be using dual analogue control for our games. The way i see it, people are taking one idea and building on it. Hardly stealing. If we didn't allow people to build on ideas, then there would be so much lacking in the industry right now. Building on existing ideas is just as important as creating new ones. So, i've kept my rant short this time. Discuss.
Eddage Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Arsenal are crap.... sorry had to say it! Anyway, they do say that imitation is the sincerest (sp?) form of flattery and it's a fact of life htat good things are going to be copied. With regards as to whether it matters who invented something... well I suppose in the end it doesn't really but it's always nice to know that you're backing the side that did!
dabookerman Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Well, nintendo may not of directly invented analogs, and rumble etc etc, they perfected it
Konfucius Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 I also tend to think Sony and MS steal Nintendo's ideas but you're right they built on other invention and GC also has the Dual Stick thing from Sony so Nintendo doesn't only invent everything and never steals anything. Games are also building on other's ideas especially in the FPS and RTS genre but still they are different enough and there would be hardly any invention if no one built upon past inventions. But it seems a bit unfair if someone has a good idea and another one copies it and makes more profit - still that's business :/
RATM_4_EVA Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Arsenal are crap.... sorry had to say it! Arsenal IS crap :p
Bowser.Vs.FWNT Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 I guess it is important to know who invented what gives a good impression to what a company is all about. Is the company a follower of technology or a creator? I'd prefer a company to always strive for something new and exciting regardless of if it turns out good or not.
GoonFace Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Arsenal are crap Ban him! I've noticed that this forum is 80% "fanboy" (it's in inverted commas because the i find the term childish along with calling yourself a "hardcore xxx" gamer). So, you'll never be able to get rid of those comments.
yo yo Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Arsenal IS crap :p whats arsenal? you mean like weapons? and if so what the hell has that got to do with anything?
Towers Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 It's mostly the fact that Nintendo are striving to change or advance gaming in more ways than Sony or MS would. The main reason I back Ninty is because I don't want Ninty to fade away because Sony and MS take less chances to change things. Sure MS and Sony have taken small chances. MS with it's hard drive and Sony with the Eye Toy but it never took them any further than they could of gone. Eye Toy lacked support and wasn't used to it's fullest. MS with the Xbox360 have kind of undone the good work they started with the Xbox by creating a core version of the Xbox360. Meaning that games won't need to make use of the hard drive at all.. kind of making it redundent which is a step back. Also I think the 'fanboys' and all the support one company and kill the other attitude has become more fierce since the death of Sega as a hardware producing company. I loved the Saturn (I know many didn't) and then loved the dreamcast even more but watched as Sony ripped through them like they weren't there killing off Sega. Alot of Sega fans (Myself included) are possibly a little hurt and wary that the same thing 'could' happen to Ninty and don't want to see such a thing. So now there is a real sense of rivallry and side taking because a companies future is at stake. Even though I support Ninty I still buy other products. I own a PS2 and was considering getting an Xbox360 until they decided to make a core version. I'm sure I'll own Revolution as well as PS3 because I love games in general
Eddage Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Arsenal IS crap :p Actually Arsenal are made up of a collective of people therefore they are crap (sorry to go off topic like this but Fierce started it in his original post )
RATM_4_EVA Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Actually Arsenal are made up of a collective of people therefore they are crap (sorry to go off topic like this but Fierce started it in his original post ) No, i was right. A team is one, a collection of people make up one team. So ArsenalS are crap would also be right. :yes: -edit- know what your right. LOL :doh:
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 20, 2005 Author Posted September 20, 2005 Thanks for the replies people. Dammit tho, i was just using the Arsenal thing as an example, and i look to have been proven right. Smalldude, i think you're right. I really doubt that tilting a controller will become as big as, say, the d-pad. Although, it's just a new direction to look at. It's good that us gamers will have the option to play games this way. I welcome ideas like this, because i don't want to play everygame the same way. I like having to play games differently. Whether that's a new control scheme, or just a new method of gameplay. Towers, i also agree with you. I think the xbox hard-drive has enormous potential, but it doesn't really seem like it's used all that much for the new system. Altho, only time will tell about that. At the end of the day tho, this is just another form of entertainment. I don't know about anyone else, but i don't hate bands or artists like James Blunt because they prevent other people from taking the top spot. At the end of the day, i can still listen to their music without them being top dog. This is the same with games, almost. If a game doesn't reach the top spot or dominate the market, it's fine as long we still have the option to play that game. For example, Killer 7? I'm not sure how well this game did, or the mass appeal of it, but i loved having the oppurtunity to place this game.
Matt Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Surely Nintendo did invent the analogue stick...? The Saturn one was technically released before the N64, but was created AFTER the N64 pad was unveiled. This is what Nintendo mean about not unveiling products too early.
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 21, 2005 Author Posted September 21, 2005 Surely Nintendo did invent the analogue stick...? The Saturn one was technically released before the N64, but was created AFTER the N64 pad was unveiled. This is what Nintendo mean about not unveiling products too early. I'm not 100% about it, but i always thought the NiGHTs pad came out waaay before the N64 got unveiled. Anyway, i'm not completely sure, so i could be wrong. It's the principle behind it tho. Nintendo do create a lot of things, but only a handful of them become industry standard. If everything they created became standard, we'd all be playing games using a power glove and a headset.
Towers Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 The Sega Saturn didn't come with analogue control. As far as my memory serves me correct. It was released later on. EDIT! Just found out.. Sega Saturn released the Nights controller after the N64 was released on Japan. Sega saw the N64 design and quickly copied it for their own use but Ninty created it
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 21, 2005 Author Posted September 21, 2005 The Sega Saturn didn't come with analogue control. As far as my memory serves me correct. It was released later on Thinking about it, that was the original point i was intending of making. The Sega Saturn didn't have an analogue control stick for it's "primary" controller, but the N64 did. Then, quickly, every pad followed suit, because it allowed more options and had better precision. It allowed for accurate movement. That's why we play most of our games now with analogue sticks rather than d-pads, because we can get better movement. So, linking back to my first post, Sony just naturally went that step further. They added another stick, so that allowed for more options. The other control stick can be used as a camera stick, or it can be used for movement as well (in FPS games, strafing). Should we really hate Sony or blast them for "stealing" nintendo's idea? I don't think we should. We do have a fair bit to thank for them. Dual analogue control in games now.
Shmotz Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 The Sega Saturn didn't come with analogue control. As far as my memory serves me correct. It was released later on. Just found out.. Sega Saturn released the Nights controller after the N64 was released on Japan. Sega saw the N64 designed and quickly copied it for their own use but Ninty created. Afaik, the controller was released in 1996. Plus Sega had tilt sensors for their Bass FIshing Line (that could also be used in games such as Soul Calibur) and the Samba de Amigo maracas. For the dates of the 64 release. Released 23rd June '96, NiGHTS pad 5th July '96. I'm not sure on the feasibilty of copying a different companies idea, manufacturing it and selling it in about 2 weeks. Plus, NiGHTS will have been in development for a while. I think its unlikely that they suddenly decided to add the analogue pad just as it was being released.
Towers Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 N64 might have only just been released but I'm pretty sure the controller design had been around for many to see for a while. I'm sure that the N64 was shown around atleast 5 months in advance, plenty of time for Sega to create a pad and game to go with it. NiGHTS was a very short game after all
Achilles Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 N64 might have only just been released but I'm pretty sure the controller design had been around for many to see for a while. I'm sure that the N64 was shown around atleast 5 months in advance, plenty of time for Sega to create a pad and game to go with it. NiGHTS was a very short game after all If memory serves me well, Nintendo not only unveiled their idea for the analog control stick early, but also delayed the release of the N64 numerous times. Numerous, I think, being twice. I guess in that sense, the length of time in which SEGA had to develop this controller for 'Nights' would have been significantly longer than the release dates of both products would lead you to believe. I'm not entirely sure on that, but that's what I remember.
darksnowman Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 You know, when I read this rant last night I wasnt struck by it. I thought (and think) the last one was better but it hardly got any response. This one has got a discussion going which is good so Ill add what I think. Well first off, reading it, I felt it was very forced by fiercy. I know what you mean kinda with bits like it being like football and yeah I think that all the die Microsoft and all can be childish. We are meant to be Pro Nintendo like you said. Its important to remember who we are supporting and show our support in a productive way... ie buying the products and evangalising! (Haha, sometimes I think supporting Nintendo can be alot like being a Christian) Personally, I only buy Nintendo. I dont mean Nintendo games... there are a few Ive missed this gen (tennis, golf) and a few EA games Ive got :shock: I only buy Nintendo in the sense that I only buy their consoles. I have considered buying an xbox for Conker and probably would have to buy Halo to see if its any use outside multi. I have also considered buying a Playstation for RPGs, Pro Evo and Ico to see what its like. These thoughts were in my darkest moments. When I think about buying these there are two things that make me get over the idea without buying. Well ok, three things: One is money. Two is that I think of all the games for Cube and GBA and DS that are coming out and games already out that I have to buy. Third is that it would kill my conscience. The following week Id be on here and the software and hardware sales would be posted up. Playstation would be killing GameCube and Xbox probably would be too. Id look at that and instead of thinking about why does everyone buy them and not come to Nintendo, itd be a case of me being in that bracket and me contributing to Nintendo's unsuccess. Hmm, anyway, I dont wanna really get caught up in the other part of your rant about the controller innovations. Everyone here knows that its Nintendo who are pushing things. I wouldnt say they are constantly pushing the boat out because they arent that radical with change (up until Revolution!) and well nothing theyve really done is gonna make em bankrupt, you know? I was gonna say, Microsoft and Sony can push along with their own visions because they have plenty to fall back on. I know Nintendo are loaded but they arent selling TVs and all aswell as games stuff. And we all know Microsoft and Sony are running their consoles at a loss. My main thought concerning all this is more of a question so Ive kept it to close with. You say its all fine and dandy for everyone to copy. I opine that when they copy Nintendo it shows we (Nintendo) are doing the right thing, however I wish all Nintendos great ideas would still remain exclusive to them! Anyway, so if everyone has their own individual visions for what they want to be and create in the games industry then why do they feel the need to copy? Shouldnt they all be trying to set themselves apart fromn each other and capturing their own audiences?
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