Super Mario Maker 2 challenge - June challenge has started!

[Glen-i]

OK, played all of them.

Sorry @Sméagol, couldn't finish your level. It was a really valiant attempt, but your level has the same recurring issue that most "Metroidvania" style levels have, the time limit. It's deflating figuring out where to go or what to do next only to realise that you have nowhere near enough time to carry on and you're gonna have to do it again.

Your use of checkpoints were quite clever though. Props for that.

@RedShell, I was surprised to find that you were the only person to use the Frog Suit, felt like such an obvious tool to utilise. Maybe the other two thought it was too obvious? Lucky you, I suppose. I particularly enjoyed the downward gauntlet. Felt just right with the level of challenge without being too frustrating.

But my vote has to go for @Dcubed, if you told me that he would recreate the feeling of playing Balloon Fight in Mario Maker, I'd dismiss that as too mental. He couldn't possibly get that close. But he nailed it! Loved the Balloon Trip section, you've somehow used the odd hitbox of munchers to your advantage. Which is nuts!

[Sméagol]

Forgot to post this yesterday, but I have plans, so I need to do this quickly.

Looks like @Dcubed won, so let me know what the theme is, and I'll make the official post tonight.

[Dcubed]

3 hours ago, Sméagol said:

Forgot to post this yesterday, but I have plans, so I need to do this quickly.

Looks like @Dcubed won, so let me know what the theme is, and I'll make the official post tonight.

While I'm happy to be the winner, I don't really want to do two themes in a row... feels a bit lame...

So I am officially delegating this month's theme to @Glen-i.  Now that he's back with us, it seems fair to give him another chance to come up with a theme I reckon.

[Sméagol]

2 hours ago, Dcubed said:

While I'm happy to be the winner, I don't really want to do two themes in a row... feels a bit lame...

So I am officially delegating this month's theme to @Glen-i.  Now that he's back with us, it seems fair to give him another chance to come up with a theme I reckon.

I am all up for that, but I'm going to need a theme tonight, or I'll pick one or anyone else can suggest something.

[Glen-i]

5 minutes ago, Sméagol said:

I am all up for that, but I'm going to need a theme tonight, or I'll pick one or anyone else can suggest something.

I'll have to look through the toolsets, see what pops up in my head. Gimme a moment.

[Glen-i]

OK! Here we go.

I have two conditions I want everyone to follow.

- The level must have a clear condition that involves collecting an amount of coins.

The amount you want the player to collect is up to you. Give some wiggle room, or strictly ask the player to collect all of them if you want.

- The level must not use any object from the "Enemies" section.

That's the green section. If it's in there, it's not allowed. Anything else is fair game.

I want to see how you implement Mario's acrobatic feats into your level.

[Sméagol]

You heard the guy.

No enemies huh. Should be interesting.

[Sméagol]

@Glen-i, how about enemies from the other catagories? Kuribo Goombas, Bullet / Banzai Bills? Against the spirit or fair play?

[Glen-i]

11 hours ago, Sméagol said:

@Glen-i, how about enemies from the other catagories? Kuribo Goombas, Bullet / Banzai Bills? Against the spirit or fair play?

Fair play, I specifically said nothing from the green section.

[Dufniall]

 

[Dcubed]

40 minutes ago, Vileplume2000 said:

 

Awesome! Though you've uploaded one day early! (Don't worry, I'm already done with my course, so I won't be nicking any ideas  I'll play it tomorrow along with everyone else's then though)

In the mean time... why not try out my other awesome courses I've made recently! Really! We have a whole other thread for them! (And it's disgusting that none of you have played Beware The Curse Of Boo yet! Seriously!  Come on guys! It's even @Glen-i Approved! )

[Dufniall]

Yeah I know it should be tomorrow but I don't know how much time I have to play tomorrow so I figured why not haha. I tried some of the courses from you and @RedShell from the other thread, but I need to go back to MM some more. But so much to play these days.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Vileplume2000

[Dcubed]

And here it is!

Annoyed that I just so happened to had already made the perfect course to accompany this theme previously; I decided to make the complete opposite of that previous course for this month’s theme!

Enjoy the challenge and aggravation of trying to earn one coin!  

[Glen-i]

I can just imagine the grin on @Dcubed's face when he came up with that name.

Right, here's my entry.

Something tells me by the time all the entries are posted, I'll be offline until Thursday, so I'm gonna hold off on playing the other entries until then, just so I can play them in quick succession before voting.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Glen-i

[RedShell]

Here’s mine:

The target is 100 coins in 100 seconds, but it’s actually possible to hit 999! However, only those that manage to reveal Baby Face can expect to max out the coin counter.  

Also, there’s a nice speed running route in this level. I’ll try to post the vid of my clear check run at some point.

[Sméagol]

I'll comment about the theme and my level later.. For now, have fun frustration!

 

[RedShell]

OK, my thoughts on the July entries:

@Vileplume2000

Spoiler

Enjoyable level.  Having the coin collection broken up into 3 distinctive sections was a great idea, as well as each area providing a unique gameplay challenge.

I actually replayed it to try improving my time, and discovered that tackling it in a different order was also quite helpful, like taking the shoe power-up from the last pipe back to the earlier ones. Cool level design.  

Oh, and was good to see the upside down effect being used a little bit too, don’t tend to encounter that one much.

@Dcubed

Spoiler

First of all, nice title and concept for a coin collecting level. While I did indeed manage to clear it, I have a feeling that I did so in an unintended way. 

After many attempts at the section with the blue skull lift (where you need to jump over 3 spike traps) I instead went back and tried to reach the cloud blocks in an earlier part of the level, and I managed to make a big jump onto those and then proceeded to clear it from there!  

To be honest, I feel little incentive to replay the level on the intended route as there are far too many challenges to contend with for a level without a checkpoint. 

So yeah, cool idea but it’s just a little too long/overly difficult for my liking.

@Glen-i

Spoiler

As with Vileplume2000’s level, I like how the coin collection was split across different areas, each one had a very unique feel (not to mention a mini-game like vibe to it, which I obviously loved ) and definitely required the use of specific skills in order to grab all of the coins.

The length and complexity of these areas (and your level in general) was absolutely perfect though, and you certainly took the lack of a checkpoint into consideration here.

As a result it’s a very replayable level, and I did just that. Even managed to beat your clear-check time.  

@Sméagol

Spoiler

You came out swinging with this one, ey?  From the very first jump there was no doubt I was playing a Sméagol™ level!

I managed to get a few of the coins, but yeah, there’s just no way I’ll be able to get them all in one go.

Reckon you are asking too much of the player this time around, what with all of those perfectly timed jumps needing to be repeated on each run, even if there were checkpoints it would be tough, but as it stands... way too difficult!  

I would love to see a vid of the entire run though, it must be spectacular.

So in the end it was a close call between Vileplume2000 & Glen-i, but my vote is going to...

Glen-i’s 4 Golden Coins!

Thanks to everyone that submitted a level this month.

Edited July 13, 2020 by RedShell

[Dcubed]

Ahh bugger! I thought I made that impossible to reach! Well, that’s what happens when you can’t get someone else to bug test it fully I suppose!

TBH, you’ve basically seen the whole thing now.  The Skull Lift is the last major challenge in the level anyway; after which point, you come to the area that you cheesed into anyway (It’s just basically a way back if you can’t figure out the mini puzzle at the end and to way to stop the player from pseudo soft-locking themselves).

Edited July 13, 2020 by Dcubed

[Glen-i]

I'm glad I decided to reduce the amount of coins you needed from 6 now.

Because I obviously wanted to have 6 different rooms to match the blatant reference I was making, but the lack of checkpoints made me change my mind after a bit. So I decided to handwave it by blaming it on "a lack of budget" in the description.

[Dufniall]

Right, played them all, finished them all except one (you can guess which one haha), and here is the verdict!

@Dcubed

Spoiler

 

Very creative idea with the one coin collection, and all these other coins in sight but inaccessible or destroyed before your eyes, loved these things haha. The skull lift jump was a hard one and it did me in a whole bunch of times. One time I passed it but somehow managed to fall down from the cranes above haha, that's when I gave up for the day. 

I think your inclusion of/obsession with glitchy stuff is the downside of the level. In the first lava area there is a glitchy bit near the pipe in the lava. One time (the first time I played it) I saw a stack of POW blocks there. All the other times they didn't show anymore but I could jump in the lava and go through the pipe. Weird. Same with the area with the one coin. Using the POW drops the coin, and when catching it I also landed in the lava and was surprised I could stand there. First time the coin dropped in the lava but upon reeintereing the room it didn't respawn, I'm not sure if it needs to or not but for me if there are all these strange things going on and I don't know how to control it, I'm not a fan. It's fun in levels built around the glitchiness but here I didn't feel it added something, it only made me feel anxious as to what the hell was happening haha.

 

@Glen-i

Spoiler

A similar approach as my own level, with split areas. I like your setup with the four pipes better than mine, it's a bit cleaner. The mini-level approach is cool as all four areas feel pretty different. I can't believe I'm going to say this but I almost found it too easy haha, think I got it on my second try.

@RedShell

Spoiler

I was thrown off a bit by your comment that you can get 999 coins here, so I was expecting to easily mop up the 100 coins required. I died a whole bunch of times before reaching the end, and then I got to the end and I was short on coins haha. So after that I focused less on speed and more on getting coins and I finished it. Curious about the speedrun/999 coins route though, I haven't found it yet!

@Sméagol

Spoiler

Yep, like RedShell said, from the first jump I knew this was going to be hell. I think I got to about 6 coins. I tried to rush past all the coins just to see how to get to the end but I haven't made it that far. There are some crazy difficult jumps in there, and with 10 coins and no checkpoints I think this is too hard. As said before, these kind of hard levels are just not for me, but I do appreciate the thought and perfect level lay-out that goes behind it!

I'm also voting for @Glen-i, love the simplicity of it. Thanks for all your levels though, quite some different concepts and interpretations of the theme!

[Sméagol]

I wanted to post my comments on my level and the theme in general before I play the others.

First of all:

On 05/07/2020 at 7:13 PM, Glen-i said:

I want to see how you implement Mario's acrobatic feats into your level.

That was my cue to make another level full of wholesome platforming! 

More or less, because I started out doing a troll level (I'm constantly looking for opportunities to submit a troll level) with  a similar concept: "collect the 10 coins". I was doing this on wednesday, and was in my experimental mode, where I just place some set-up ideas in a level. It was all going fine.. untill I realized I used a bob-omb there. It was crucial to that particular set-up I was using it for, and didn't want to scratch the idea, so I scratched the whole level instead. As an entry for the challenge that is, as I'll complete it later.

So then I started doing a more traditional platforming level.. Except you had to collect 10 coins, and there were (almost) no enemies? This was friday or saturday evening, can't remember. Or maybe I even started it wednesday. The first jump and the first real coin challenge are actually a bit of a rehash of one of my other levels (with 0 clears). I don't think any of you played it except for @Nicktendo, who was furious haha. That first jump obviously is easy once you know the trick.. That first challenge is a toned down version of what you had to do in that other level. I kind of like the cannonball bouncing platforming, and with few other options (no enemies), it was a natural choice.

But.. I know my audience. I already knew you were going to hate the platforming (sometimes I take this into account, sometimes I ignore it), and this was going to be exacerbated by @Glen-i's restrictions of a clear condition (i.e. no CP). But I didn't do much work Saturday evening (most of Saturday was spent on a goddamn fishing tournament), and I couldn't do much Sunday afternoon. I knew you were going to hate it, so I started exploring other ideas on Sunday evening.. which is a bit late, so it didn't go well. One idea was a 1 (well, 2) screen 10 second speedrun. Started working on that, looked like I could turn it into something fun, but I was adamant at using 10 seconds and 10 coins, but this would need more time to figure out. Another idea was a Rainbow Ride theme, featuring some relaxing autoscrolling platforming, but I didn't have much inspiration for it apart from the initial idea, so quickly abandoned that one, as that would need even more time. Plus I figured I'd run into the same problems, like not having access to enemies and CPs, or making things too easy.

So I ended up just finishing the 2nd level I started. Funnily enough, I still forgot the no enemy thing, and put a Boom Boom at the end, it was a castle theme, so I wanted at the end of the level. I removed it once I realized it, and put a bullet bill set-up there instead. I toned down some of the jumps (yes, they were harder) and placed more mushrooms than average, and made the 2nd half less difficult overall, because of the lack of CP. It's funny that @Glen-i decided to limit the number of coins to 4 for that reason.. I was adamant at keeping the 10 coins (even though the last one is free), because I wanted enough content, despite the lack of CP and the overall difficulty. Believe it or not, the level is actually quite short (if you know what you're doing). I forgot the cleartime, but I suspect it was around 40 seconds, and I wasn't perfectly speedrunning it, I only tried to do the start perfectly.

So yeah, in hindsight, wasn't a super fan of the theme, though I should have put more work into it during the weekdays. I wasn't a fan of coin clear conditions in general, as there are only few situations I can think of where they actually add something to the level.. In my opinion, in most cases, you can make a normal level, still require to make the player make certain jumps by placing red coins or keys or powerups, and not have the disadvantage of not having a CP. If you remove the clear contition on my level, and place a CP, you would remove almost all of the frustration. Coins would be optional, but an extra challenge for those who want it. I could still require collecting all the coins without changing anything except walling off the goal, resulting in the exact same level, but with the advantage of a CP.

And all this just made me realize enemies are essential. They're not just hazards.. They're often used as utility, platforming, or even just plain decoration. I'm not a super fan of my level myself, simply because it feels too sparse. No other coins to grab since the theme was collecting the 10, and no enemies at all, except for the 2 exceptions. They liven things up, even if you don't want to use them seriously.

I think there is a place for the theme, but I would have needed to start earlier and put more work into it, and well, thought of it in the first place. I think that 10 second speedrun level would be a good fit in hindsight, and thinking about it now, I think a simple and pure exploration based level could be a good fit. But I didn't think of that earlier. And I still think I'm going to miss enemies.

So yeah, This ended up a bit more text than I intended to write, but I'm eager to play your levels, to see if you're going to change my mind haha.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Sméagol

[Sméagol]

Yup, and none of you did!

I have a hard time voting for this one.

[Sméagol]

@RedShell

I probably got the most enjoyment out of this one, from a platforming standpoint, but I had some issues with it, so I replayed it to analyze some more and propery point them out. Your level doesn't need the clear condition. Like most of our levels.  Yours almost does, and could, with some changes, put it to good use, but not in its current state. The thing is, I realized I only hit the clear condition in your bonus room, after my first clear. It wasn't clear to me I needed to collect every coin if I wanted to make the goal without visiting that bonus room, this only became clear with the 2nd clear and analysis. Problem is: those red coins are in your way anyway, and while you put some platforming challenges in front of them, you defeat the purposes of those by giving away mushrooms right after them. So once you reach the goal, you probably have access to the bonus room anyway. You could remedy this by making the red coins harder to reach, and not giving out coins in that bonus room (and give it another purpose,like 1-UPs or something).

@Glen-i

Yup, good that I posted my rant before playing all these levels. It's a good example of the point I was making: this level doesn't need a clear condition. What makes it worse, in your case, is that you overcompensated for it by reducing your initial plan to just collecting 4 coins, and making them very easy to get. Top left is free, the other ones are easy, only the top right was one that made me retry. In its current state, it doesn't even need a CP, but you could have added more coins and made them harder. Change them to red coins, wall off the goal, add a re-usable CP, and there you have it. It's too short and easy in its current state, and doesn't make good use of the clear condition.

@Dcubed

You have the same problem as I did. Level's too difficult, needs a CP, and there's no reason it couldn't have one. Just like Glen-i's and my level, it doesn't make good use of the clear condition. Same thing, you could have just changed it to a red coin, walled off the goal, and you could have added a CP at the start of the 2nd lava level, where it was really needed, and you would have the exact same level otherwise. it's a shame, because it started out good, I love your trolling, teasing with all the coins, and using some clever tricks, and was ready to vote your level because of those things. However, I saw mention of the unintended shortcut, so I tried that one before I saw the 2nd lava section.. Got confused as I was doing things out of order, had to retry, but then tried to do it the intended way. Got to that 2nd lava sections and.. that's where I got annoyed. Died a bunch of times, which obviously made me redo the whole section before it. It's easy up until that point, but re-doing it constantly is annoying, and didn't finish it as a result. If you continued in the same vein as the rest of the level, I'd have enjoyed this one, even if it technically didn't use the clear condition in a good way.

@Vileplume2000

This is the only level to actually make good use of the theme / clear conditon. I.. just wasn't a fan of the execution haha. So I went exploring, arbritarily chose a pipe to go into (bottom pipe of 2nd section).. and timed out. You're not meant to try it that way, but that wasn't clear to me, and was adamant at keep trying it anyway. So I timed out, and tried the first section first after that. This.. is not designed to properly use the powerup given there. it's annoying to collect those coins with the powerball. It's another reason why this level needed a max time limit. It's even more annoying if you decide to explore some more (I gave up collecting them all with the powerball), and then you find the boot, which also makes the first section a lot easier. 3rd section was also the most enjoyable for me.

So.. while I wish @Vileplume2000 created a tighter platforming experience, I think I'm still giving him my vote, as he has the only level you can't really recreate without the clear condition. My level, DCubed's level and Glen-i's level all don't need a coin collecting clear condition, and would be better without it. Redshell's level could make good use of the clear condition with some changes. So yeah, Voting Vileplume.

 

[Dcubed]

Yeah, it really sucks that clear conditions cut off checkpoints.  I don't quite get why they did this anyway, you have to prove that the level is beatable from all checkpoints used anyway!

While it sucks about the unintended shortcut that I've left in my level, I'm not altering it.  I'm taking this month's loss like a Bro!

I'll probably get round to playing all of your courses either tomorrow or Friday.  This week has been pretty rough for me at work; so I want to have a decent chunk of time to hand to play through all of your courses properly!

Edited July 15, 2020 by Dcubed

[Glen-i]

OK! Tried them all now.

@Dcubed and @Sméagol

Spoiler

If there's one thing I absolutely hate in Mario Maker, it's being forced to take a hit to proceed. I shouldn't be punished for doing well.

I'm actually quite surprised at me having an issue with @Dcubed's difficulty, I thought you would have taken the lack of checkpoints into account. @Sméagol clearly didn't give a toss about the lack of checkpoints, but I expect better from @Dcubed. Hilarious concept, but it went on too long.

@Vileplume2000

Spoiler

I'm not sure what @Sméagol is on about, I found it very clear that I had to enter the second area from the top.

Timed out once, but I very much enjoyed it, I particularly like the Super Ball Shooting Gallery, that was my favourite bit. Very nice touch with the indication on how many coins are in each area.

Oh, and because I can't seem to help myself every month, you win the "I managed to kill myself in a really stupid way" award!

I swear I do this every time I enter this!

@RedShell

Spoiler

I found it!

Man, this level was loads of fun. Immediately went back to try and find out how to get that last red coin, and on my third trip there, I made the connection with your hint and got rich!

Even if I was allowed to vote for myself, I'd have to give it to you.

Yeah, I'm voting for @RedShell's Dash for the Cash.