Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[killthenet]

I could be wrong but with the way they have been raising prices of their current models and accessories they are clearly struggling to balance the books as it is with mainstream products so I can't imagine they will sell a niche, low volume product like the Pro for a loss at launch - they will want to be making a profit on it. $600 seems like the bare minimum to me, but I think it could end up being $700 or so without a disc drive. 

Whatever it comes out at I think it's going to be the console with the highest launch price to date - the £1000 smartphone has become commonplace, consumers have gradually been conditioned to accept it over the last 15 years so it doesn't seem too outlandish to me that the RRP for the Pro will be significantly higher than anything that's gone before

[Dcubed]

8 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm baffled why they keep raising prices on their PS goods. Don't components usually get cheaper as time goes on or is that just a thing of the past now? It's crazy how we don't really get cut price consoles at the end of a generation anymore.

I'd say it comes down to three reasons.

Firstly, the traditional console market is shrinking.  Simply put, Sony are selling less PS5s than PS4s, and they need to ensure that their revenue line keeps going up to satisfy their investors.  So they simply raise the price to make up for the shortfall in hardware sales.

Secondly, their main competitor is falling apart, so they can more easily get away with continued price hikes as Xbox becomes less competitive in general and Playstation increasingly becomes the only game in town.

Finally, worldwide consumer inflation has simply conditioned people to accept higher prices for consumer goods in general.  People are getting used to paying inflated prices for other tech goods, so the idea of a more expensive console becomes more acceptable as a response.

As far as the PS5 Pro goes? I think that Sony know that they will be primarily targetting enthusiasts who would otherwise be looking to buy PCs and GPUs at enormously inflated prices with this console; so I think it'll be priced accordingly.  I'm betting on $699.99/€699.99 myself (as an added bonus, it also avoids the dreaded "meme price" of $599.99 too).

Edited September 10, 2024 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

I'd say it comes down to three reasons.

Firstly, the traditional console market is shrinking.  Simply put, Sony are selling less PS5s than PS4s, and they need to ensure that their revenue line keeps going up to satisfy their investors.  So they simply raise the price to make up for the shortfall in hardware sales.

Secondly, their main competitor is falling apart, so they can more easily get away with continued price hikes as Xbox becomes less competitive in general and Playstation increasingly becomes the only game in town.

Finally, worldwide consumer inflation has simply conditioned people to accept higher prices for consumer goods in general.  People are getting used to paying inflated prices for other tech goods, so the idea of a more expensive console becomes more acceptable as a response.

 

10 hours ago, Julius said:

It's a very complex issue with many factors to consider, but first and foremost it's down to Sony/PlayStation needing to search for a way to make profits to please shareholders despite the incredibly weak yen, which has depreciated significantly and consistently since COVID hit back in 2020; in mid-March 2020 the JPY was valued at 0.0077 GBP, whereas today it is valued at 0.0053 GBP, and it seems that search has started to even extend to their accessories, which really sucks. I imagine it's also been factored into Nintendo's reasoning for not reducing the price of the Switch. 

It sucks but Japan has had it really rough the last few years, I remember hearing during the COVID recovery phase (2021/2022, can't remember exactly when because so much of the early 2020s are a blur) that at one point they were literally giving away vouchers worth hundreds of £s worth of ¥ in an attempt to boost their domestic tourism, seeing as they made the decision to keep their borders closed to tourism much longer than many other countries around the world and their typically strong domestic tourism was rocked by people being afraid to move around because, well, COVID.

Rock and a hard place and all that 

Yeah, but it's not just PlayStation. Nintendo hasn't dropped the price of the Switch, nor has Microsoft with the Series X. I get why Nintendo won't because the thing is still selling but Microsoft are in dead last and could do with a boost. As I said, years ago a console would get a discount when it was near the end of its life or not selling well but that isn't the case anymore. Even when a console was doing well (PS2) they would make revisions of it a sell it at a lower price.

I think it a lot of it comes down to what Killthenet and Dcubed said in that customers/younger generation have become conditioned to pay high prices for electronic goods. Paying £800-£1000 for a phone just seems bonkers to me. I begrudged spending £150 on a cheap Samsung phone 2 years ago and so the thought of spending a grand on one is just baffling to me.

[Julius]

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah, but it's not just PlayStation. Nintendo hasn't dropped the price of the Switch, nor has Microsoft with the Series X. I get why Nintendo won't because the thing is still selling but Microsoft are in dead last and could do with a boost. As I said, years ago a console would get a discount when it was near the end of its life or not selling well but that isn't the case anymore. Even when a console was doing well (PS2) they would make revisions of it a sell it at a lower price.

I mean, couldn't part of the reason that Nintendo have avoided price cuts be both that it is continuing to sell well, but also be reinforced by the weaker yen? A very steady 30% drop-off of the yen's value over a 4 year window isn't something I think anyone would be prepared for, and so while I think in the past the components and manufacturing becoming cheaper for manufacturers as the life of a console went on made sense, revisions like the Slim could drop in price because they'd then take additional steps to reduce costs or maximise profits (size of the console for one, as a single shipment could then include more consoles) but also the slim margins/taking a loss wouldn't hit as hard knowing the strength of the console when it comes to software sales. Nintendo, for me, could easily have seen that the margins were tightening on the Switch due to the weak yen and made the decision to not introduce a price cut in part because there just isn't as much room to, and they seem to be getting around this in more creative ways (such as trying to bundle in games and subscriptions). The Switch also wasn't cutting edge tech when it first released and so Nintendo are likely seeing incredibly healthy margins on the sales of Switch units which means they won't need to touch the price because, as you said, it's also just still selling really well. 

As for Xbox, being backed by Microsoft, I do think that is a whole other kettle of fish. Microsoft can live without Xbox and cut it, whereas Sony are still heavily reliant on PlayStation, possibly not to the same extent as they were a decade ago, but it means that PlayStation as a brand impacts Sony's shareholders more noticeably than Xbox does Microsoft's. I do agree that the smart move would be for Xbox to have introduced a price cut by this point - instead they seem to be gearing up for a new console, because..? They can? - because the strength of the US dollar would allow them ample margin to do this, but the strength of the dollar also means that Microsoft are probably not looking to squeeze everything they can out of Xbox as a brand (due to success elsewhere offsetting Xbox) and Xbox seem to be having an identity crisis as it is (I mean, it's been a decade, so a pretty damn long identity crisis), that I'm not sure selling hardware would resolve at this point. 

Also, it would make too much sense for them to introduce a price cut, so obviously they wouldn't do that 

The other thing to consider is that, as far as I can tell, PlayStation and Nintendo both seem to have their manufacturing centralised in East Asia in both Japan and China, where obviously the weaker yen is going to have hit them hard. Compare that to Xbox who, because of Microsoft, seem to manufacture in a number of territories located around the world, and their decentralised manufacturing structure being set literally anywhere but Japan must be something of a boon. 

Again, I think it's only one of a number of factors, but I think it wouldn't give the complete picture if we were to overlook the weakness of the yen, which has pretty clearly had an influence on PlayStation's decision-making here. I don't think it's necessarily the only reason, but it's got to be a big one, and I think the fact that the only price changes we've seen since COVID from the three console manufacturers have been to adjust to the value of currency (Switch had that small price cut in the UK and EU some years ago, was it £20? And then with PlayStation and their price increase) I think it makes some sense, and even going so far as to increase the price of accessories suggests to me that it's not just based on components for, say, the PS5, but it's a case of Sony trying to squeeze everything they can out of PlayStation. 

3 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I think it a lot of it comes down to what Killthenet and Dcubed said in that customers/younger generation have become conditioned to pay high prices for electronic goods. Paying £800-£1000 for a phone just seems bonkers to me. I begrudged spending £150 on a cheap Samsung phone 2 years ago and so the thought of spending a grand on one is just baffling to me.

Yeah, I can see this being a big factor in things too. I mean especially with pretty much all of us here at N-E with PS5s considering the Pro a total waste of time for now, it is leaning very hard on being a specialty and premium product aimed at a very small cohort of enthusiasts, which I'm sure Sony will be looking to take advantage of. From what I've listened to of them recently, Digital Foundry seem to think that there's going to be some pretty great tech included in the Pro, too, and I can definitely see PlayStation wanting to charge a premium for that. 

I think it's also worth considering how PlayStation market themselves these days, they've started turning up at Apple events and seem to be taking more steps to evoke Apple; the DualSense, for example, which is what has turned up at Apple events, in both design and its default colours are clearly manufactured with form in mind over function. It's a far cry from the actual functional form of DualShocks of a bygone era, not to mention the fact that they sell a premium controller sold at 3x the price of a standard DualSense in the Edge which has comparable battery life! It's nuts. 

I think it's also how the price can be spread, we had Xbox All Access doing the rounds early on this gen but it didn't really seem to catch on, there are third-parties who can do this now of course (Klarna and the like) but PS5 Pro just getting a "so it's X amount" without potentially discussing how its price can be spread out like a contracted phone's (where contracts are probably just as common as buying a phone outright these days, if not more so in more developed parts of the world?) also means it's difficult to compare to the pricing of a £1000+ phone. A £1000+ phone being put up for £70 per month phone over 2 years includes a HUGE markup by providers, but given the climate of technology lasting longer, the economic climate, the fact that it is commonplace, etc., means that it's a much easier pill to swallow for most people my age (because I think I'm pretty squarely fitting that younger generation demo you mentioned) compared with the idea of dropping £600+ at once on a gaming console.

It makes absolutely no sense but that's just where this stage of capitalism has taken us I guess 

[Jimbob]

Didn't i read somewhere that Nintendo has enough in the bank, that they could take 10 years worth of losses.  I'd have imagined by now the Switch is either breaking even, or at a loss.  And software is making them bank by comparison.

It's confusing me a little as to why everything is going up, whereas this time in the PS4 gen, we were looking at cheaper consoles with the Slim.  This time, the Slim is the same cost as the standard PS5.  And i'm thinking the PS5 Pro will be £100 more than that.

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, Jimbob said:

Didn't i read somewhere that Nintendo has enough in the bank, that they could take 10 years worth of losses.  I'd have imagined by now the Switch is either breaking even, or at a loss.  And software is making them bank by comparison.

It's confusing me a little as to why everything is going up, whereas this time in the PS4 gen, we were looking at cheaper consoles with the Slim.  This time, the Slim is the same cost as the standard PS5.  And i'm thinking the PS5 Pro will be £100 more than that.

I suppose it's like everything. I mean, the energy crisis has been over for a while and yet most things continue to go up in price. It's ridiculous.

[Hero-of-Time]

Hilarious response.

Still my fav Final Fantasy and I doubt it will ever be topped.

 

[Happenstance]

I'm with Final Fantasy on this one, VIII sucked.

[Julius]

43 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Still my fav Final Fantasy and I doubt it will ever be topped.

What is XVI but twice as great as VIII? 

Still need to get around to playing VIII, it's the only mainline PS1 Final Fantasy I have left to play, which has been the case for...4 years? Damn, time really flies.

I've only seen and heard bits and pieces about it over the years (some tracks, the opening cutscene, the existence of Triple Triad, the weird level-scaling, something about Ifrit?) so it's mostly unspoiled for me, haven't heard nearly enough to piece anything together. Hopefully I'll get around to it sooner rather than later, and before anything gets spoiled! 

Oh, and this is the first mainline FF which is younger than I am.

Sorry, I just had to 

[drahkon]

Already sick and tired of the PS5 Pro discourse...it's everywhere so it's difficult to ignore.

Think I'll just play games.

[Julius]

6 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Already sick and tired of the PS5 Pro discourse...it's everywhere so it's difficult to ignore.

Think I'll just play games.

[drahkon]

16 minutes ago, Julius said:

Nah. Nothing for me to discuss.

I already sold my mom to finance the 1500€ machine that no one else will buy because it's unnecessary but there are still people who will buy it (enthusiasts) but there are no games but Sony will announce games soon but there is no showcase but there will be one but AAHHHHH

 

[Happenstance]

I'd laugh so much if this just turned out to be a PS2 Mini announcement 🤣

[Hero-of-Time]

Just now, Happenstance said:

I'd laugh so much if this just turned out to be a PS2 Mini announcement 🤣

I'd take it.

[Happenstance]

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

I'd take it.

Yeah to be fair I'd probably be more interested in that.

[Julius]

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

I'd take it.

"and we're pleased to announce the PS2 Mi–oh, never mind, I meant a second PS1 Classic with a weaker selection of games than the first" 

[Julius]

[Happenstance]

I think being able to do away with the need to choose your graphics mode is a smart way to frame this

[Julius]

Just now, Happenstance said:

I think being able to do away with the need to choose your graphics mode is a smart way to frame this

Yep, very much so, very smart play.

¾ of players going for Performance over Graphics modes surprised me, too. 

[Julius]

They didn't have a Horizon title to sell the PS5 Pro with like they did the PS4 Pro

So they went back and are now re-selling Horizon Forbidden West 

[Julius]

Oh showing a number of games running on the PS5 Pro in a reel to cap it off is SMART

Everyone who would be interested is going to go to Digital Foundry who will have the breakdown on it all

Edited September 10, 2024 by Julius

[Julius]

£699.99! Damn!

[Hero-of-Time]

Yikes, that price! 

[Julius]

Grabbed a screenshot of all the prices

Something very funny to me about selling a £700 console and still selling the Vertical Stand separately 

[Happenstance]

That's the issue with all our consoles getting more powerful and PC-like. It costs money to build these machines and I can't necessarily dispute its worth that price, especially given what I pay for my gaming PC but I still wouldn't be able to bring myself to pay that much on a console.