FIFA World Cup: Russia 2018

[bob]

Yup. Just the way I likes it. [emoji3] 

My eldest brother hates the sport but now that England are doing well he tries to have a conversation about it with me and it's just embarrassing. The same thing happened at work a few times, which is why the conversation got brought up. Down in the lab we all love football and talk about it on a daily basis. The guys in the office never bother with it but now all of a sudden they try to engage in conversation about it with us and the best you get is "That guy who plays for France who runs really fast looks pretty good, doesn't he?" I'd rather they don't bother at all.

It's like when Andy Murray won Wimbledon. It was great for Scotland/Great Britain but I didn't all of a sudden become interested in the sport and jump on the bandwagon pretending I knew what everything was all about. It's actually a great example to use because when Andy ever lost he was Scottish but as soon as he started winning he was British. [emoji14] 

As I said, this is no doubt an unpopular opinion. [emoji4] 

You've got to be careful, it's a slippery slope. Soon you'll be hating everything popular and complaining about how Pokémon Go ruined the franchise.

 

My friend really doesn't follow football, but has been trying to keep up. We were all predicting the score for the England game last Saturday, and he went with 2-0 to Belgium. Needs to try harder methinks.

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

1 minute ago, bob said:

You've got to be careful, it's a slippery slope. Soon you'll be hating everything popular and complaining about how Pokémon Go ruined the franchise.

 

My friend really doesn't follow football, but has been trying to keep up. We were all predicting the score for the England game last Saturday, and he went with 2-0 to Belgium. Needs to try harder methinks.

 

Arsenal are going to win 3-1 tonight against Croatia.
The thing about Arsenal is they always try and walk it in.

[Happenstance]

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

The part-time fans are annoying, but they're only part-time annoying, too! They're very easy to sniff out and see through. The ones that annoy me are the ones who trash stadiums or start riots, as they give the sport a bad name. I dislike these ones most of all. 

I was reading on Sky News about the state of some places after the match on Saturday.

https://news.sky.com/story/england-fans-warned-against-senseless-behaviour-ahead-of-world-cup-semi-final-11431587

https://news.sky.com/story/london-ambulance-damaged-as-england-fans-celebrate-world-cup-quarter-final-win-11429810

It's a shame people can't celebrate victory in a reasonable manner. I suppose it didn't help that the match was on a Saturday afternoon and the weather was fantastic enough for people to go out and watch it. Hopefully we won't see a repeat of such behaviour after tonight's game.

[Shorty]

43 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

My eldest brother hates the sport but now that England are doing well he tries to have a conversation about it with me and it's just embarrassing. The same thing happened at work a few times, which is why the conversation got brought up.

Blimey, talk about gatekeeping. Shouldn't you be trying to encourage more people to love football, instead of rolling your eyes at people who don't take it seriously enough for you? Tell your brother without making him feel stupid what he's misunderstanding, and he might get interested....

In video game terms, this is like PC master race/neckbeards looking down on casuals. Instead of feeling that your precious interest is being encroached on, encourage those casuals to try a real game and they might be surprised, right?

[Fierce_LiNk]

1 minute ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I was reading on Sky News about the state of some places after the match on Saturday.

https://news.sky.com/story/england-fans-warned-against-senseless-behaviour-ahead-of-world-cup-semi-final-11431587

https://news.sky.com/story/london-ambulance-damaged-as-england-fans-celebrate-world-cup-quarter-final-win-11429810

It's a shame people can't celebrate victory in a reasonable manner. I suppose it didn't help that the match was on a Saturday afternoon and the weather was fantastic enough for people to go out and watch it. Hopefully we won't see a repeat of such behaviour after tonight's game.

Yeah man, some of the stories that I read after the game were downright appalling. People jumping on cars, even that story about somebody jumping on that ambulance. They're the ones that anger me the most as that's just taking it to the next level. People could get hurt and it puts our nation in a bad light. It's a shame because the vast majority of fans are just regular people who want to enjoy the game. I know that @Eenuh wasn't impressed reading these stories and it still seems like England fans have a non-favourable reputation, especially outside of the country.

Unfortunately, that's something that is more cultural and there isn't a lot that the FA and people such as Southgate can solve themselves. There's only so many times you can go on camera and ask fans to be respectful. 

Aside from that, there are always going to be fans who just jump onboard when an international tournament comes around. It happens in every country. I guess the ones who irritate most are the ones who do make up daft statements, e.g. "I think Beckham will score 10 goals tonight in the third quarter!" but it's quite easy to just laugh and accept those. They're fairly harmless. I just want a good result tonight.  

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, Shorty said:

Blimey, talk about gatekeeping. Shouldn't you be trying to encourage more people to love football, instead of rolling your eyes at people who don't take it seriously enough for you? Tell your brother without making him feel stupid what he's misunderstanding, and he might get interested....

In video game terms, this is like PC master race/neckbeards looking down on casuals. Instead of feeling that your precious interest is being encroached on, encourage those casuals to try a real game and they might be surprised, right?

A couple of years ago I visited my brother and his family, something which I often do, and I wanted to watch the Liverpool game while I was down there. He told me no because he didn't want football in his house. He's never been a sporty person and at coming up 50 years old I don't think he ever will.

Nah. I prefer my gatekeeping methods if it's all the same.   

[Shorty]

That's a pretty extreme example then, and one where I appreciate being a little irked by your brother's hypocrisy, but I wouldn't take that as a reason to look down on anyone who is only now gaining interest. Plenty of people could be nudged into a deeper enjoyment beyond the world cup, tell them "if you thought that was a good match check out this youtube video" etc.

I wouldn't consider myself a football fan at all, but my boss' interest often inspires me to pay more attention, learn the player names and teams etc.

And on the idea that it's casual fans making a mess of arenas and causing violence and giving "proper" fans a bad name.... Blimey, hate to break it to you but "proper" football fans have a pretty bad name for these kinds of things most of the time already.

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, Shorty said:

And on the idea that it's casual fans making a mess of arenas and causing violence and giving "proper" fans a bad name.... Blimey, hate to break it to you but "proper" football fans have a pretty bad name for these kinds of things most of the time already.

Where did I say that? I was just posting the news stories about fans causing havoc. It's well known that we have some of the worst football hooligans in the world when it comes to causing damage and creating mayhem. It's an embarrassment and certainly gives the country a bad name.

[Shorty]

You didn't, sorry should've been clearer, I think I read into that in something Flink said

Quote

The part-time fans are annoying, but they're only part-time annoying, too! They're very easy to sniff out and see through. The ones that annoy me are the ones who trash stadiums or start riots, as they give the sport a bad name. I dislike these ones most of all. 

But re-reading that I think I got defensive and misunderstood that anyway.

[Ronnie]

I live and breathe rugby, normally can't stand football but there's something very pleasing about Southgate and the team he's assembled. Not full of the usual egos and big personalities. Makes watching them (as I do every world cup) much more intriguing. The success helps too but I would have watched England even if they'd crashed out at the pool stages. I don't mind if people look down at me as some sort of bandwagon jumper, I'm just enjoying the tournament. That article was hilarious though, it takes pretty much the entire length of it to finally get to his point.

[Fierce_LiNk]

In terms of the whole "gatekeeping" thing: There are definitely some fans who just prefer to watch the internationals rather than club football. They may have their own reason for that, or maybe it's partly down to time commitments. It can be a huge commitment following a club team, especially if you do go to games. Even if you don't go to games, watching the highlights weekly, following the team news, transfers, etc. There are some who also maybe don't feel an affinity to one particular team, whereas with England or a national team, they feel that they maybe have that affinity. E.g. if you've moved from area to area, you may not choose to follow a specific team. Or maybe your family have never "had a team" either. So, in that respect, following a national team may suit. 

About getting people into the game: football isn't some hidden, unknown secret that is locked away somewhere. It is, by far, the biggest sport in the country and is one of the most popular sports on the entire planet. News websites have entire sections dedicated to the sport, so there is coverage there. However, it is now far harder to actually go to games due to the rising cost of ticket prices and, also, it's expensive to follow on tv due to all of the heft tv packages and deals out there. To actually follow your team (if they are Premier League level) you'd need to buy Sky and BT Sport (unless that's changed again) to watch most of your games. Not all are televised. Going to the games isn't just a time commitment, it is just so pricey, too, at least at the top level. There's always the option of going to local games, so that's worth exploring. Even just playing the sport is a way to get into it and there are tons of 5-a-side leagues knocking around the country. I do an afterschool club every week and many of the pupils that I teach are football mad, so it's quite easy to stay "into it". 

It isn't really the same as, say, getting your friend into SEGA games. Once you've given someone a Megadrive and a load of games, that's it. Football is continuous and there are so many intertwining stories that, to explain something such as the Munich Air Disaster or Hillsborough, would take an awful lot of time and specific subject knowledge to do so. One of my favourite ever goals is the goal that Cantona scored in the 1996 FA Cup Final. To explain the significance of that one goal would take ages due to all of the history behind it. The fact that it's between two of England's biggest teams, the history and rivalry between the clubs, the stature of the teams at that specific moment in time, the ban that Cantona had received prior to that fixture, etc. You'd need an hour long tv documentary just to cover it, if that. It wouldn't simply be a case of "watch a 5 minute highlight reel of this game, look at this goal...it's good, isn't it?" 

A large part of it is also down to the person on the other end of it and how much they want to be educated about it. If they are willing to watch the youtube videos, Match of the Day, or even go to games, then good for them and that should be encouraged. It's a good thing to have more people interested in the sport, especially if they are willing to stick with it and do it respectfully. But, I wouldn't go to all of that effort of explaining to somebody why Zidane is, in my opinion, one of the greatest footballers that ever lived (etc) if they weren't willing to listen or would just not take an interest. But, that's person to person and you'll get mixed results on that one. @Eenuh is very good and, although she doesn't have the same level of affinity for Manchester United that I do, she often watches the games with me, knows all of the players names, knows who's having a good season or not and follows the news around the club with regards to transfers, recognises that some tactics aren't working, etc. So, she's a very good example of someone who was willing to listen and put the effort in and now we can have actual interesting football conversations. So, it can happen! 

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I live and breathe rugby, normally can't stand football but there's something very pleasing about Southgate and the team he's assembled. Not full of the usual egos and big personalities.

It's something he wanted to get rid of when taking over the senior squad. He actually took them all away on a trip to do marine training in order to build up the team spirit and break down any walls that may have been built up at a club level.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12098/11417770/jermain-defoe-explains-how-gareth-southgate-transformed-england

[Hero-of-Time]

4 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

@Eenuh is very good and, although she doesn't have the same level of affinity for Manchester United that I do, she often watches the games with me, knows all of the players names, knows who's having a good season or not and follows the news around the club with regards to transfers, recognises that some tactics aren't working, etc. So, she's a very good example of someone who was willing to listen and put the effort in and now we can have actual interesting football conversations. So, it can happen! 

One of my sisters is very much like your example. She started getting into the sport by watching it with her husband and then took the time and effort to learn about things like the squads, transfers and managers etc. She now loves the sport, has her team and Sky Sports app on her phone and watches matches all the time with one of her own kids ( the other 2 aren't bothered about it). 

[Fierce_LiNk]

1 minute ago, Hero-of-Time said:

One of my sisters is very much like your example. She started getting into the sport by watching it with her husband and then took the time and effort to learn about things like the squads, transfers and managers etc. She now loves the sport, has her team and Sky Sports app on her phone and watches matches all the time with one of her own kids ( the other 2 aren't bothered about it). 

There we go then.  

I don't actually have a problem with any set of fans, except the hooligans, because they take it onto another level entirely. What they do is tarnish the reputation for a sport which I, obviously, care about dearly. The other non-hardcore fans of varying degrees, I can live with. Quite easily. It's often quite fun sometimes explaining why a certain player is as good as I believe they are (years of justifying Paul Scholes and Michael Carrick has made me an expert of this!) so I'm not bothered by it really. True, you do get the odd person who makes ridiculous comments that just...make no sense. The gaming equivalent would be something like "My favourite Wii game is Uncharted 4" or something to that effect.

There are going to be tons of fans rooting for England now because, frankly, they have done well and have exceeded all expectations, so naturally we're going to get loads of extra support behind the team than before. Also, as a nation, we've seen the national team fail badly for quite a number of recent tournaments, so it's nice to actually make it into a semi-final and potentially get into the final itself. It just means different things to different people, as there are some who have obviously waited years for England to get to another semi-fina/final and who have experienced the heartbreak (I remember watching Southgate's miss as a young guy and it was a terrible moment) and there will be some who are just pleasant surprised that England haven't fucked up for a change.  

[Fierce_LiNk]

Almost time. Unchanged lineup since the last game. I'm going for a 2-1 England win. Lingard to score first, Croatia to reply and Sterling to get the winner to silence his critics. 

[Happenstance]

8 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Almost time. Unchanged lineup since the last game. I'm going for a 2-1 England win. Lingard to score first, Croatia to reply and Sterling to get the winner to silence his critics. 

I was with you right up until that last bit 

[Fierce_LiNk]

5 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

I was with you right up until that last bit 

He'll come good. All these chances, one of them surely has to go in! I'll stick by him. Would be delighted if Lingard or Rashford get the winner...from a Phil Jones corner or something daft like that.

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

He'll come good. All these chances, one of them surely has to go in! I'll stick by him. Would be delighted if Lingard or Rashford get the winner...from a Phil Jones corner or something daft like that.

I still think Rashford should be starting over Sterling. Hopefully Southgate's faith in him will finally pay off.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

I still think Rashford should be starting over Sterling. Hopefully Southgate's faith in him will finally pay off.

Somewhat controversial, but I think Rashford is better suited to an impact sub. You'll need a player like him to come on and run at the opposition when they're tired. I just hope that Southgate brings him on a bit sooner if the first plan isn't working.

[Happenstance]

I do understand that Sterling does a good job running at defenses as we saw last match but at some point if he isnt producing anything after that then we probably should switch to someone who will.

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Somewhat controversial, but I think Rashford is better suited to an impact sub. You'll need a player like him to come on and run at the opposition when they're tired. I just hope that Southgate brings him on a bit sooner if the first plan isn't working.

True but I think Sterling is just the same. I mean, he got City so many points last season by coming on as a sub and nicking a cheeky goal.

[Fierce_LiNk]

3 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

I do understand that Sterling does a good job running at defenses as we saw last match but at some point if he isnt producing anything after that then we probably should switch to someone who will.

 

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

True but I think Sterling is just the same. I mean, he got City so many points last season by coming on as a sub and nicking a cheeky goal.

At this stage, they're both quite similar, pacey players and will probably have the same amount of impact. I think there's a good argument either way for one starting over the other. If it's not working after an hour, I'd switch Sterling for Rashford. Giving him 10 minutes isn't really enough, he needs a good amount of time to get into the game.

[Happenstance]

I'm thinking either 1-0 England or 1-1 and then penalties anyway.

[Happenstance]

England trying to prove me wrong early!