Savings/Investments

[Raining_again]

My bank are being tits, they said they wont close my save to buy savings account (i bought 6 months ago) and i just recd £85 interest (obviously from when i had money in it) and i keep messaging them but they refuse. They keep telling me they sent a passbook (they did not) and theyd have to file it as missing before they could close it.

 

 

I'm just like.....what really. I've got a mortgage, i'm NO LONGER A FIRST TIME BUYER CLOSE MY FIRST TIME BUYERS SAVINGS ACCOUNTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT /explodes

[Goafer]

I have a bit of an odd situation with my share dealing account with Lloyds. I bought 2069 shares in RBS way back in 2009, but for some reason, I only have 206 now showing in my account. Now the fact that the first 3 digits match make me think it's an error. Is there any way that I could have lost shares?

 

Part of me thinks that they have been taking the admin fee from my shares instead of my nominated account, but payments seem to have been coming out ok.

 

I'm really hoping that it's an admin error that can be rectified, as my shares have quadrupled in value, turning my £1,000 investment into £4,000.

 

I'm going to call them tomorrow to sort it out, just wondering what you guys think in the mean time.

[Will]

I have a bit of an odd situation with my share dealing account with Lloyds. I bought 2069 shares in RBS way back in 2009, but for some reason, I only have 206 now showing in my account. Now the fact that the first 3 digits match make me think it's an error. Is there any way that I could have lost shares?

 

Part of me thinks that they have been taking the admin fee from my shares instead of my nominated account, but payments seem to have been coming out ok.

 

I'm really hoping that it's an admin error that can be rectified, as my shares have quadrupled in value, turning my £1,000 investment into £4,000.

 

I'm going to call them tomorrow to sort it out, just wondering what you guys think in the mean time.

 

Actually your current total is probably correct. It seems like they did a reverse stock split in 2012 where they replaced 10 old shares with 1 new one, upping the value of an individual share but leaving owners holding less shares.

[ReZourceman]

I have a bit of an odd situation with my share dealing account with Lloyds. I bought 2069 shares in RBS way back in 2009, but for some reason, I only have 206 now showing in my account. Now the fact that the first 3 digits match make me think it's an error. Is there any way that I could have lost shares?

 

Part of me thinks that they have been taking the admin fee from my shares instead of my nominated account, but payments seem to have been coming out ok.

 

I'm really hoping that it's an admin error that can be rectified, as my shares have quadrupled in value, turning my £1,000 investment into £4,000.

 

I'm going to call them tomorrow to sort it out, just wondering what you guys think in the mean time.

 

Will's correct. It's called a consolidation and happens fairly often.

 

A company will have so many shares in issue, but the share price will be "low", typically it happens with share prices that are really low (like, 2p or whatever). They will then consolidate the shares, so they will say that all shareholders will receive 1 new share to replace every 10 existing shares they hold. The individual price of the shares (usually/should) then shoot up, meaning people hold the same value of shares (or minimally changed) but the individual share price is much higher, with the usual intention of doing so is that they become more attractive to potential share buyers.

 

The most I ever saw was, I think, 1 new share for ever 215,000 shares held.

 

The RBS one was one of the largest consolidations ever, in terms of the number of people it effected/affected.

 

Double check the amount you paid in and the amount it's now worth though, rather than looking at the share price.

 

https://www.share.com/find-investments/advanced-finder/company-overview/royal-bank-of-scotland/summary/203/

 

Also....check that Lloyds are ripping you off. Most share dealing companies cover transfer out costs, if you wish to transfer, and they make it very simple to do so.

 

Last point, just in case I didn't make it clear, if you have made that much money (entirely probable in eight years, but I haven't checked) then it's unrelated to the fact that you now hold less shares.

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by ReZourceman

[Goafer]

Actually your current total is probably correct. It seems like they did a reverse stock split in 2012 where they replaced 10 old shares with 1 new one' date=' upping the value of an individual share but leaving owners holding less shares.[/quote']

 

 

Will's correct. It's called a consolidation and happens fairly often.

 

A company will have so many shares in issue, but the share price will be "low", typically it happens with share prices that are really low (like, 2p or whatever). They will then consolidate the shares, so they will say that all shareholders will receive 1 new share to replace every 10 existing shares they hold. The individual price of the shares (usually/should) then shoot up, meaning people hold the same value of shares (or minimally changed) but the individual share price is much higher, with the usual intention of doing so is that they become more attractive to potential share buyers.

 

The most I ever saw was, I think, 1 new share for ever 215,000 shares held.

 

The RBS one was one of the largest consolidations ever, in terms of the number of people it effected/affected.

 

Double check the amount you paid in and the amount it's now worth though, rather than looking at the share price.

 

https://www.share.com/find-investments/advanced-finder/company-overview/royal-bank-of-scotland/summary/203/

 

Also....check that Lloyds are ripping you off. Most share dealing companies cover transfer out costs, if you wish to transfer, and they make it very simple to do so.

 

Last point, just in case I didn't make it clear, if you have made that much money (entirely probable in eight years, but I haven't checked) then it's unrelated to the fact that you now hold less shares.

 

 

 

 

That makes sense then. Cheers guys. It does mean that my shares are accurate and I'm £500 down. Balls. It was set up with money I was prepared to lose though, so no huge deal.

 

Which leads me on to my next question. Should I keep them, or sell them? My thoughts so far:

 

Reasons to Sell

It costs me £30-£40 to keep the account open

I don't fully understand the risks/how it works (for example, stock consolidation)

I've already lost £500/50%, they would have to double in value for me to break even

They were worth £300 at some point, so they have increased in value in the past year or two, so wouldn't be a terrible time to cut my losses

I have something I'd like to spend the money on

I only have 206 shares, so if they continue to lose value and they consolidate, I could end up with very few shares.*

 

Reasons to Keep Them

If they go back to pre-recession levels, they could be worth about £14,000 (Very loose maths here)**

The thing I'd like to spend the money on could be seen as frivolous

It was only ever set up as a long term investment, with money I could afford to lose

 

 

*If my very limited understanding is correct. I have no idea how likely this is

 

**I would assume they'd eventually return to pre-recession levels, my worry is that this won't happen in my lifetime.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Goafer

[Rummy]

When I was in like Year 4 or something my mum took me to the bank to open my first, own, savings account where I could put christmas and birthday money etc. She still gave me some reigns on what I could spend etc(basically only one video game for each event, so I was on like 2 a year) - and whilst I used to resent it I'm very glad for it now. I grew up as the 'tight' kid and got mocked for it; but it's because I was always rather acutely aware of the value of my money. Resultantly I was about to(with help from my parents admittedly) able to buy my house at 26 despite not working for a particularly high wage.

 

I've always been a saver rather than a spender. I don't understand the lavish spending, and I am a bit of cheap buyer where 'buy cheap, buy twice' has hit me but I think I'm up on the whole. I basically drink in wetherspoons, and that's about the extent to which I go out :p My main expenditure is feeding myself and general drinking expenses(done more often in company of others in homes).

 

Re: savings - due to having a mortgage I don't save too much unless it's beating my mortgage rate. I'm currently saving £500 a month into a 5% account which is more than my mortgage - I'll cash it out after a year and give the money to my parents(owe them a fair bit). I do have a 'buffer' of about ten grand I've not put onto the mortgage in case I have any house emergencies like boiler, or want to do a room reno etc, but after that I essentially put everything I can into the mortgage - but I'm able to overpay without limits. I keep my buffer fund at the moment because interest rates are low and I don't mind the cost on my mortgage for that flexibility.

 

 

I once attempted to day trade on penny shares once - but man, whilst the gains can big so can the losses - it was too scary to me to be losing that money that quick! I do keep saying one day I'll get like a grand together to play with - but the idea of losing that when it could go on my mortgage at the moment is too scary. I'm always worried I could get too hooked on gambling even though I do set limits!

 

 

Due to the mortgage stuff I don't save in ISAs etc because I want access to my money; but I'm thinking about it soon for the money I owe my parents etc. I, arguably stupidly, don't pay a pension but that's because I'm not sure I trust either myself to live to see it or the government to give it to me before I'm 100 or something and I'd rather put as much as I can into my mortgage at the moment to cut off the excruciating amount the banks make off me in sheer interest. I'd say I've managed to put about 30-40% of my takehome into my mortgage each year so far; I'm hoping if I carry on like this I can clear all my debts on that front by 45-50. Don't know what happens if I meet someone in that time, but I'll cross that bridge later. My plan was to possible re-mortgage this house in 10 years or so to fund a cash buy of something for a rental income; I'm unsure of that given the following now though...

 

The economy worries me a fair bit at the moment. I'm expecting a slump and decline in the housing market after we Brexit, maybe about 2-3 years after. I don't have any formal knowledge or experience to base this on, so it's really just a wild guess, but I am starting to wonder if it may be worth contemplating selling my house; living somewhere cheaper/smaller for a few years, then rebuying something the same size for cheaper if the market crashes. I took a gamble on a tracker and rates not going up when people told me to fix though - and that's paid off for me in quite a big way considering it's my first few years of a mortgage.

 

Of course I'm absolutely heinously fucked on the above if prices just continue to go up. My house has already, accoridng to Zoopla, gone up about estimated £70k in 3 years. I'd be willing to say with patience I could easily get £80-90k more than I paid for it though. More if I did the work inside that's needed(it's very dated, hence the buffer fund I mentioned earlier).

 

 

tl;dr: My advice to anyone: pay your debts before saving if you have them. I've pretty much never had debt barring this mortgage; but yeah. Always pay your debts first unless the interest is better on savings than debts(very rare). Once debt-free - save at the highest interest you can and switch if the rates get poor. Great site for finance advice etc(other than our resident Modwin here) I'd recommend is Martin Lewis's http://www.moneysavingexpert.com too.

[ReZourceman]

*If my very limited understanding is correct. I have no idea how likely this is

 

**I would assume they'd eventually return to pre-recession levels, my worry is that this won't happen in my lifetime.

 

If they consolidate again (currently unlikely), you shouldn't lost/gain money. The actual money value you hold should stay roughly the same. Theoretically, you could get to a point where you have one share but it's worth £500.

 

Kind of unlikely they'll return to pre-recession levels, but only because of the consolidation. Not like it WON'T happen. Anything could happen> They could fold tomorrow...but... yeah.

 

When you say £30 - 40, is that for the year? You can definitely get cheaper than that. Some companies charge £1.80 per month (£21.60) a year for a normal share dealing account. Consider transferring the account.

 

I'm not an advisor so I can't say if you should or shouldn't sell, but shares are long term vybez, and a FTSE 100 firm like that....should...be okay (should). It's probably worth holding on IMO.

 

How much do they charge for buying/selling (dealing) shares?

 

 

[Will]

Which leads me on to my next question. Should I keep them, or sell them?

 

I'd say sell them. From the reasons you give you're not really looking at this as any sort of savings plan, it's more a maybe you'll hit the jackpot on some money that doesn't matter so why not take the risk. I don't really see that happening anytime soon with RBS so I'd pull the money out and get something you enjoy with it.

[Charlie]

That makes sense then. Cheers guys. It does mean that my shares are accurate and I'm £500 down. Balls. It was set up with money I was prepared to lose though, so no huge deal.

 

Which leads me on to my next question. Should I keep them, or sell them? My thoughts so far:

 

Reasons to Sell

It costs me £30-£40 to keep the account open

I don't fully understand the risks/how it works (for example, stock consolidation)

I've already lost £500/50%, they would have to double in value for me to break even

They were worth £300 at some point, so they have increased in value in the past year or two, so wouldn't be a terrible time to cut my losses

I have something I'd like to spend the money on

I only have 206 shares, so if they continue to lose value and they consolidate, I could end up with very few shares.*

 

Reasons to Keep Them

If they go back to pre-recession levels, they could be worth about £14,000 (Very loose maths here)**

The thing I'd like to spend the money on could be seen as frivolous

It was only ever set up as a long term investment, with money I could afford to lose

 

 

*If my very limited understanding is correct. I have no idea how likely this is

 

**I would assume they'd eventually return to pre-recession levels, my worry is that this won't happen in my lifetime.

 

There is absolutely zero chance of RBS going back to pre recession levels. They've sold off so much of the business since then and are really just concentrating on being a small bank again for the moment.

 

I worked for them and they're an absolute joke. Everyone in the industry knows they're a joke.

 

If it were me I'd cut my losses. They still have a fall out coming from Williams and Glyn where they spent 1.5bn and have nothing to show from it. They need to get rid of it by year end and unless they find a buyer that's not happening. If they do find a buyer it'll be a low ball offer.

[Goafer]

But, but... Their branch in Edinburgh has a million in cash on display. That's just the kind of arrogance that reassures an investor such as myself.

 

I am aware that it's not in their branch, but it's money in Scotland, near a castle so it's close enough.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Goafer

[Rummy]

@Mr_Odwin do you have any good beginner's reading/introductory stuff to this FIRE idea? I'm interested in it at least, and wondering if it might be something I decide to pursue and it kinda sounds up my alley...

[Mr_Odwin]

@Mr_Odwin do you have any good beginner's reading/introductory stuff to this FIRE idea? I'm interested in it at least, and wondering if it might be something I decide to pursue and it kinda sounds up my alley...

 

American-centric, but just check out the FAQ on the appropriate subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/wiki/faq

 

There's also https://www.reddit.com/r/leanfire and https://www.reddit.com/r/FIREUK/

[bob]

I just remembered I have half a Bitcoin that I bought for £80. It's now worth £500, which isn't too bad investment wise. Not sure whether to sell it or just leave it and see what happens.