Serebii Posted July 18, 2015 Author Posted July 18, 2015 How exactly did they do it with the SNES? And you talk as if the others never innovate or think outside the box at all. SNES was more of an evolution, yeah, but the control scheme is what caused the innovations. Also, you're inferring something that isn't there.
dazzybee Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Yeah, but he probably has every right to since he has been proven right. No, the guy is a staggering prick, does he do videos about all the stuff he gets wrong? Or just because he made some vague comments about the Wii u that many many many people made that are slightly right, he acts like a cunt... And you defend him? Bizarre. How exactly did they do it with the SNES? And you talk as if the others never innovate or think outside the box at all. I thought people hated it when the other consoles get brought up in comparison for no reason? As for saying the other companies, that isn't what he said,but also they don't do it close to the level of Nintendo. It's like defending nintendos third parties in comparison to th ether consoles because they have a few. Nintendo do it far more than anyone else in the industry, but some distance. What Nintendo do and they way they do it is completely different to the rest. And the one and ps4 are borderline identical.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 No, the guy is a staggering prick, does he do videos about all the stuff he gets wrong? Or just because he made some vague comments about the Wii u that many many many people made that are slightly right, he acts like a cunt... And you defend him? Bizarre. I think its very telling that, instead of speaking on the subject matter, we have to dissect and judge the persona of a random Youtube poster... JUST COMMENT ON THE CONTENT, PLEASE! You haven't commented in any way or form with regards to the game topic we are discussing or the video I posted. This is what is fucking up the Wii U boards.
dazzybee Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I think its very telling that, instead of speaking on the subject matter, we have to dissect and judge the persona of a random Youtube poster... JUST COMMENT ON THE CONTENT, PLEASE! You haven't commented in any way or form with regards to the game topic we are discussing or the video I posted. This is what is fucking up the Wii U boards. It deserves no more, the only thing worse than arrogance is smug arrogance. I dont understand what is in the video that hasn't already been brought up in some way, it's utter nonsense. Hes not even really discussing it, just condemning something we don't know anytning about. What's far more interesting is to discuss what it is, what we want, and before blasting why don't we just wait till we know more. SNES was more of an evolution, yeah, but the control scheme is what caused the innovations. Also, you're inferring something that isn't there. The snes controller was so inventive Sony have never stopped using it.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 It deserves no more, the only thing worse than arrogance is smug arrogance. I dont understand what is in the video that hasn't already been brought up in some way, it's utter nonsense. Hes not even really discussing it, just condemning something we don't know anytning about. What's far more interesting is to discuss what it is, what we want, and before blasting why don't we just wait till we know more. Lets have it your way and not discuss anything whatsoever, and not have opinions and thoughts and ideas - and just wait till it launches to form anything.
dazzybee Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Lets have it your way and not discuss anything whatsoever, and not have opinions and thoughts and ideas - and just wait till it launches to form anything. Did I not say lets talk about what we want it to be? Oh I did. You keep conveniently ignoring things for some weird agenda... I just think it's painful to slam something we have no idea what it is, life is much better when we think of the amazing possibilities of the unknown than be a smug cynic.
somme Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 In each generation, barring the Gamecube generation, they've attempted to revolutionise gameplay too. That was probably the last console of theirs I thought was amazing. I just want good games, without all of the, as I see them, superfluous input methods.
Ashley Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Also, you're inferring something that isn't there. Just pointing out how it read, which was namely "people want Nintendo to be more like others but if they did they'd stop innovating". I thought people hated it when the other consoles get brought up in comparison for no reason? I didn't start that though... But yeah, back to the NX. although I personally hope they do stop trying to come up with new ideas for the sake of saying they've come up with a new idea
dazzybee Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 But yeah, back to the NX. although I personally hope they do stop trying to come up with new ideas for the sake of saying they've come up with a new idea Do you think that is the big problem? Almost doing it for the sake of doing it, rather than hitting on something and thinking it can genuinely offer new ways of playing? I think 3D gaming was a blatant attempt to latch on to a popular tech at the time. Maybe the gamepad was too with tablets but I also think it could've and should've been a far more innovative device. I mean off tv play is enough for me, but the games that use it well gave such a great experience surely there are loads more, but for some reason, whether that be actually it is limited, or they realised quickly and started future proofing their games to not use it, they just never created close to enough games that made it worth it. Can't wait to see what they do! I'm sure it'll be mental, in good and bad ways!
Mr_Master_X2 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) If Nintendo went all "Copy Console No.3" and it failed, the money loss they experience would do VERY bad things to the company. And it WOULD fail. (NOTE: by fail, I mean fail compared to not selling as much as the others, not profit wise/game quality wise...which apparently some people think doesn't matter...LOL) Because... 1) Fanboys have already taken their pick of "uber powerful console". They've made their console bed and stuck to their specific console for 3 or 4 gens now. No radical fanboy is going to touch Nintendo even if it went uber powerful, the same way they refuse to touch their opposite (Sony or Microsoft). 2) They don't have the money to sell it at a loss (because they're gaming only, and can't continue to tank/drain money like the other companies that have sixty-billion other divisions propping them up). Sell it at a loss, not make profit. Sell it at "real price", too expensive for anyone to buy. 3) It'll be 2-3 years later by release for a console the same power as the other two, getting the same multi-plats...but gamers already own one of the other two. So why would they buy it...? That's why Nintendo goes it's own way. That's why they make profit. That's why they're still live and kicking. It's possible they could go uber. They could probably release a PS4 level power console late 2016/2017 now and make profit due to things being cheaper...but will anyone other than Nintendo fans buy it? It's possible there are some PS4/XO buyers that are true Nintendo fans and only buy the other consoles to get those multi plats Nintendo doesn't get anymore, that would come back to Nintendo. Is it enough...? Personally, I don't really care where they go with the home unit as long as they don't ignore their portables in favour of propping up a console that's already fallen down. I'm sure Nintendo doesn't care about matching PS4/XO as long as they make profit. Edited July 18, 2015 by Mr_Master_X2
Ashley Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Do you think that is the big problem? Almost doing it for the sake of doing it, rather than hitting on something and thinking it can genuinely offer new ways of playing? The problem could theoretically be if they spend so much time and energy focusing on trying to re-engineer that one wheel, they could miss out on something else or get to a point where they go with something that seems like it's needed simply because they were stuck to the idea that something was needed in the first place. But it's all theoretical as I say. There's no way any of us know exactly what goes on over there, but from a personal POV I'd be happy with an improved Pro Controller on the next console.
Goron_3 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) If Nintendo went all "Copy Console No.3" and it failed, the money loss they experience would do VERY bad things to the company. And it WOULD fail. (NOTE: by fail, I mean fail compared to not selling as much as the others, not profit wise/game quality wise...which apparently some people think doesn't matter...LOL) Because... 1) Fanboys have already taken their pick of "uber powerful console". They've made their console bed and stuck to their specific console for 3 or 4 gens now. No radical fanboy is going to touch Nintendo even if it went uber powerful, the same way they refuse to touch their opposite (Sony or Microsoft). 2) They don't have the money to sell it at a loss (because they're gaming only, and can't continue to tank/drain money like the other companies that have sixty-billion other divisions propping them up). Sell it at a loss, not make profit. Sell it at "real price", too expensive for anyone to buy. 3) It'll be 2-3 years later by release for a console the same power as the other two, getting the same multi-plats...but gamers already own one of the other two. So why would they buy it...? That's why Nintendo goes it's own way. That's why they make profit. That's why they're still live and kicking. It's possible they could go uber. They could probably release a PS4 level power console late 2016/2017 now and make profit due to things being cheaper...but will anyone other than Nintendo fans buy it? It's possible there are some PS4/XO buyers that are true Nintendo fans and only buy the other consoles to get those multi plats Nintendo doesn't get anymore, that would come back to Nintendo. Is it enough...? Personally, I don't really care where they go with the home unit as long as they don't ignore their portables in favour of propping up a console that's already fallen down. I'm sure Nintendo doesn't care about matching PS4/XO as long as they make profit. No one wants them to sell it at a big loss. If they release the most powerful console they can for around £250, I'm happy. It's worth remembering that Gamecube and N64 were sold for tiny losses at various times in their respective lifespans.. I hope they move away from the Wii U and 3DS model of selling a console at a big loss, it's just not needed. If the 'gimmick' is making the console financially unviable, it's not worth it. Edited July 19, 2015 by Goron_3
Kav Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm asking for a decent online infrastructure and features, architecture similar to the other consoles (not necessarily power, but it has to be in the same ball-park) and aired open attitude toward online within their own games.
Mandalore Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Wasn't the GameCube profitable almost immediately? That was on par power wise with the PS2 and Xbox. How did they manage that back then?
Goron_3 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Wasn't the GameCube profitable almost immediately? That was on par power wise with the PS2 and Xbox. How did they manage that back then? It was super well designed and ridiculously efficient. It also lacked a DVD player which saved costs. According to Emily Rogers, the last minute price drop before launch to £130 meant that it sold at a small loss (very small) but they made money back from 1 game or accessory. The same thing happened when they cut the cost back down to $99 over in the states.
Hero-of-Time Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 1) Fanboys have already taken their pick of "uber powerful console". They've made their console bed and stuck to their specific console for 3 or 4 gens now. No radical fanboy is going to touch Nintendo even if it went uber powerful, the same way they refuse to touch their opposite (Sony or Microsoft). I'm not sure I agree with this. This generation has shown more than ever that a lot of people are quite willing to change sides. You could even look back to the last generation as a good example as well. The PS2 dominated during that generation yet in the next one the 360 took a lot of Sony's sales. Fast forward to this generation and the tables have turned again, with Microsoft now lagging behind Sony. Sure, you will get the crazy people who won't touch anything other than Nintendo/PS/Xbox but the majority of gamers have shown that if you market the product towards them, have a good advertising campaign and a fair price point, you will then have them on your side. I have no doubt in my mind that if Nintendo released a console that was the same as the others, got all the same 3rd party support and had the same kind of online setups then they would clean house. The have one thing that the others don't and that's a history of well known IPs at their disposal. Having those, as well as the same 3rd party support as the others, would kill a lot of the need to have another console. I'm asking for a decent online infrastructure and features, architecture similar to the other consoles (not necessarily power, but it has to be in the same ball-park) and aired open attitude toward online within their own games. This is all I want and I think it's a very simple request. With a robust online system, Nintendo's own games could REALLY shine through and give many games some legs.
Ronnie Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Great post @Mr_Master_X2, agree completely. I don't think anyone would touch a £300+ PS4 style console by Nintendo, (especially in the middle of a generation!) apart from hardcore Nintendo fans. People are willing to switch sides this gen yes, but between PS4 and XB1, Nintendo just aren't as relevant to the hardcore gamer as they once were. They would sell a lot more units if they went ultra cheap and made it a box to play Nintendo's excellent games. Given the success of the other two consoles this generation, positioning NX as an affordable second console that plays great games would be the smartest thing they could do IMO. Again, no one would buy an ultra powerful NX in the middle of a gen. Not hardcore gamers who already have their PS4/XB1s, nor families/casuals (which contrary to popular belief, is still a big market for Nintendo) I have no doubt in my mind that if Nintendo released a console that was the same as the others, got all the same 3rd party support and had the same kind of online setups then they would clean house. I completely disagree sadly. I think there is far too much anti-Nintendo sentiment out there, but even if that were the plan, it would be suicide to do it mid-generation. Give it 4-5 years when next gen launches and it would have a better chance to succeed. Edited July 19, 2015 by Ronnie Automerged Doublepost
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 It was super well designed and ridiculously efficient. It also lacked a DVD player which saved costs. According to Emily Rogers, the last minute price drop before launch to £130 meant that it sold at a small loss (very small) but they made money back from 1 game or accessory. The same thing happened when they cut the cost back down to $99 over in the states. Now that's The Nintendo efficiency I love. And the accessories were legendary: Wavebird, GB player, even those custom discs to fit where the logo clip is. I think the GameCube model is what should have been improved upon ie no proprietary discs, no 'kiddy' purple with lunch box handle... But a powerful system on par with the competition, bringing in ports and exclusive deals.
Ronnie Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I think the GameCube model is what should have been improved upon ie no proprietary discs, no 'kiddy' purple with lunch box handle... But a powerful system on par with the competition, bringing in ports and exclusive deals. Nintendo consoles have been selling less and less with each passing generation since the NES. That's incredibly worrying. The only exception is the Gamecube's successor. Without the casual friendly Wii Nintendo would be in big trouble atm.
Hero-of-Time Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Nintendo consoles have been selling less and less with each passing generation since the NES. That's incredibly worrying. The only exception is the Gamecube's successor. Without the casual friendly Wii Nintendo would be in big trouble atm. Problem is that the casual market is far too fickle. You simply can't rely on them to show up and give you the sales you need. While I agree that launching a machine on par with the others mid gen is suicide, relying on the casual/expanded audience isn't that great either.
Mandalore Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Did the GameCube do that badly early on? The turning point seemed to be when Microsoft released Xbox Live, whilst Nintendo pretty much ignored online gaming entirely. Games like Burnout 3 missed the GameCube, loads of other 3rd party games suddenly lacked the online play that PS2 and Xbox were getting. By the end of the generation, weren't GameCube sales about on par with Xbox? If the console itself had looked less like a purple lunchbox, and Nintendo had taken online gaming seriously, surely it would have been remembered as a relatively successful console.
Kav Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I think releasing any console mid-gen will be a huge mistake from Nintendo right now. They need to ride out the WiiU a little longer. They should give it a Party Chat system, that'd give it the legs it needs for me.
Sheikah Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Isn't it already pretty much a given that the NX will probably release within the next couple of years (considering their winding down at E3 and no Zelda)? I agree that it's a mistake to do that.
Serebii Posted July 19, 2015 Author Posted July 19, 2015 Isn't it already pretty much a given that the NX will probably release within the next couple of years (considering their winding down at E3 and no Zelda)? I agree that it's a mistake to do that. Well in two years, the Wii U will have been out for 5 years and that's been the usual length of a generation, barring the overly long one we just left.
Sheikah Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm thinking more along the lines of how it fits in with the competition - I can easily see them going another 5. It'll be the middle of the generation.
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