liger05 Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I think for games like 1080, Wave Race, F-Zero etc., they need to test the waters with smaller eShop exclusive titles and if they do well, then they can push for retail Treat them small-time and they will likely stay small-time. Also splatoon says hi. Fire emblem was on it last legs with Nintendo saying it had to be a success or that was it. EShop release? No!!! If nintendo can release a metroid game that nobody asked for which by no surprise bombs they can as sure as hell release the games people want. Edited October 23, 2016 by liger05
Goron_3 Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 The lack of titles like F-Zero and Wave Race on the Wii U wasn't just because they 'were not making money.' They size of the teams needed to make Wii U titles was a big jump up from the GC/Wii and they had to adjust to make HD titles too. On top of that they were also supporting the 3DS - there wasn't enough capacity to pump out those types of titles. You also had the issue of Nintendo's internal teams being encouraged to take advantage of the wiimote (motion control, IR) and the Gamepad (asymmetric gameplay) which don't lend themselves to certain types of games. I'm sure we'll get those types of games on the Switch.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Treat them small-time and they will likely stay small-time. Also splatoon says hi. Fire emblem was on it last legs with Nintendo saying it had to be a success or that was it. EShop release? No!!! If nintendo can release a metroid game that nobody asked for which by no surprise bombs they can as sure as hell release the games people want. True. I'm all for big marketing drives, especially for renown franchises. I would just be cautious about the games that Nintendo have left in the back for over a decade - But you're right. But the eShop approach can help with experimental games like Other M.
Glen-i Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 The lack of titles like F-Zero and Wave Race on the Wii U wasn't just because they 'were not making money.' They size of the teams needed to make Wii U titles was a big jump up from the GC/Wii and they had to adjust to make HD titles too. On top of that they were also supporting the 3DS - there wasn't enough capacity to pump out those types of titles. You also had the issue of Nintendo's internal teams being encouraged to take advantage of the wiimote (motion control, IR) and the Gamepad (asymmetric gameplay) which don't lend themselves to certain types of games. I'm sure we'll get those types of games on the Switch. Huh, I never thought about it like that before. This makes a lot of sense. It's easy to forget the WiiU was Ninty's first attempt at HD games.
tapedeck Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Interesting discussions - especially using the eShop to test the waters of titles. What I do find interesting is that Nintendo (specifically Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa) knew the importance of what launch titles were needed for different regions. Since the market expanded, Nintendo let other developers fill gaps where they didn't feel they could 'compete' (There's a quote out there somewhere from Miyamoto). The NS needs big hitters DAY ONE from 3rd parties like FIFA/ACreed/CoD etc. I just worry if a March release is a good time for this meaning Nintendo need to bring the content until the Christmas market push begins. It will be interesting to see how Nintendo fares under Kimishima's stewardship. No doubt he has a handle on the Arakawa/Lincoln approaches to software in the west from his NoA market experiences; but his banking background may bring a fierceness that the Iwata era lacked and Yamauchi era's were built on. With their software developers now working in an improved, cluster-like setup (as recognised by Iwata as the key to any future success), hopefully this time, with flexible hardware and industry-known toolsets and documentation comes a more market-savvy and braver Nintendo. Fascinating and exciting times for sure!. Edited October 23, 2016 by tapedeck
Hogge Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 So you just want them to pretend the Wii/WiiU never happened?I feel like as an approach, that's a total regression. I want them to make it abundantly clear to the consumers and the gaming press that they've learned from their mistakes. Don't pretend that absolutely everything to do with the Wii era was a mistake, because it wasn't. I'm not. The Wii was amazing in its day. They managed to catch lightning in a bottle and created one of the most popular consoles of all time. It was the right product at the right time. However, the Wii era is well and truly over. Retirement homes are NOT going to buy consoles anymore. At least not until our generation gets old enough to go to retirement homes. The things that made the machine so great back then are not so fondly appreciated today. If Nintendo are to succeed with the Switch, they need to make it clear to even the most dense of morons that this is a fresh start and that this machine has NOTHING to do with neither the Wii or that mindset. The Virtual Console idea was made on the Wii. You want them to drop that? No, but Nintendo need to consider doing MASSIVE changes. VC games are way to expensive for what they are (emulated versions of 20+ year old games). It's absurd that you have to purchase VC games for each console seperately and it's equally absurd that each new console has so few VC games at launch, and that the games trickle in at a snails pace. The NES Micro is proof of this. Nintendo are selling a proprietary piece of hardware with wireless controllers and 30 games for less than 30 said games would cost as downloads. That's BONKERS. This is of course a question for a marketing exec, but I'd have nothing against dropping the VC brand and creating a new one. And as much as you disdain them, the Mii's are one of the things they got right. The simplistic art style works well for Ninty, and I personally love rocking my Mii in Mario Kart, I like his stupid dopey voice, and they've provided more than a few hilarious moments on the Mario Kart League. Or would you much prefer the eerily creepy Playstation Home versions? Or the not quite as memorable XBox Avatars? First off, that art style worked well during the Wii era, when they were doing their outmost to make games that would appeal to toddlers, pensioners and republican soccer moms. But like I said, now that era is over, it's time to lure the gamers back. And no, I don't want the Sony or Microsoft equivalents. Neither did their consumers. So now they're gone. And noone misses them. Dropping everything to do with the Wii is just killing progress. Sure it did things wrong, but it did things right as well. I get the impression your hatred for the Wii name is blinding you a bit. What "progress" did Nintendo make with the Wii and Wii U? Which is applicable today, to the audience that Nintendo undoubtedly are going to aim for.
Ashley Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 It's easy to forget the WiiU was Ninty's first attempt at HD games. Not that easy to forget sometimes
liger05 Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 The NES Micro is proof of this. Nintendo are selling a proprietary piece of hardware with wireless controllers and 30 games for less than 30 said games would cost as downloads. That's BONKERS. Never thought of that. Bonkers indeed
dazzybee Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 With regards to the big extremes sport 4 - excitebike, f zero (sort of), wave race and 1080. I would be more than happy with he remakes of 64, gx, blue storm and avalanche with online and some extra tracks maybe. Surely that would be be a huge undertaking?
Hogge Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Either that or they don't happen because they don't make money. Your choice :p Let me correct you there. Nintendo aren't a software publisher, they're a console manufacturer. They should see games as a marketing tool to shift systems. And a game theoretically doesen't need to sell a single copy to make thousands buy the system. As a hypothetical example: let's say that 1080 releases next year. Bob has been thinking of buying the Switch since launch. However, Breath of the Wild alone doesen't justify buying a brand new system. So 1080 comes out, which is one of his all time favorite game series, so he buys a Switch, but he doesen't buy 1080 straight away, he buys BotW instead, as that's a more hyped game, intending to buy 1080 at a later date. But now that he has the Switch, 1080 has to compete with third party games as well as later releases. Perhaps he doesen't buy 1080 at all, or not until Switch 2 hits the shops, perhaps he buys it used. Regardless of which, Bob didn't improve the sales numbers for 1080, but he DID buy a system. With regards to the big extremes sport 4 - excitebike, f zero (sort of), wave race and 1080. I would be more than happy with he remakes of 64, gx, blue storm and avalanche with online and some extra tracks maybe. Surely that would be be a huge undertaking? Perhaps doing that with F-Zero X would be worth the effort due to that games barren environments: But for the other games, I'd clearly say no. An arcade game with four different, unreasonably difficult cups is just lame today. They'd need to make brand new games with WAY meatier singleplayer campaigns.
Serebii Posted October 23, 2016 Author Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Treat them small-time and they will likely stay small-time. Also splatoon says hi. Fire emblem was on it last legs with Nintendo saying it had to be a success or that was it. EShop release? No!!! If nintendo can release a metroid game that nobody asked for which by no surprise bombs they can as sure as hell release the games people want. Splatoon wasn't an existing series that had proven to not be a seller, which is why the risk was taken. You're changing the narrative and changing what I said. The lack of titles like F-Zero and Wave Race on the Wii U wasn't just because they 'were not making money.' They size of the teams needed to make Wii U titles was a big jump up from the GC/Wii and they had to adjust to make HD titles too. On top of that they were also supporting the 3DS - there wasn't enough capacity to pump out those types of titles. You also had the issue of Nintendo's internal teams being encouraged to take advantage of the wiimote (motion control, IR) and the Gamepad (asymmetric gameplay) which don't lend themselves to certain types of games. I'm sure we'll get those types of games on the Switch. Yeah, this is true. The timeline of things really screwed with Nintendo. 3DS stumbled out of the gate so they had to focus on 3DS games. It was their first HD games, and that stumbled, so they took longer. Then the Wii U stumbled so they had to try and make things they knew that would sell. I do expect we'll see a few legacy franchises, but because they stopped selling, I think my theory of eShop games is the most logical course for them. People often use the "oh they have plenty of money, they can just eat the loss", but they can't do that with so many games at once. They can't just take so much loss just to please the fans. They need to make enticing stuff that also sells, and these series proved they weren't top sellers and so they'd need to consider other stuff before it Edited October 23, 2016 by Serebii Automerged Doublepost
tapedeck Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 With regards to the big extremes sport 4 - excitebike, f zero (sort of), wave race and 1080. I would be more than happy with he remakes of 64, gx, blue storm and avalanche with online and some extra tracks maybe. Surely that would be be a huge undertaking? We can dream, right? I still play them all (apart from Blue Storm, ugh) annually. Nintendo never go back and never change up (massively) their previous games so they just need to make more games in these franchises going forward. Ubisoft may put STEEP on the NS but other than that, the days of extreme sports seems to be over for the market. The SSX reboot hardly set the sales charts on fire and if the Stanper brothers hadn't mentioned Jet Ski's to Miyamoto; we would have had F-Zero on water instead of WaveRace64 anyway. Would love to see these franchises return but it seems Nintendo (and NST lol) are done. How about some Ridge Racer from NAMCO while we're wishing too.
dazzybee Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 We can dream, right? I still play them all (apart from Blue Storm, ugh) annually. Nintendo never go back and never change up (massively) their previous games so they just need to make more games in these franchises going forward. Ubisoft should have STEEP on the NS but other than that, the days of extreme sports seems to be over for the market. The SSX reboot hardly set the sales charts on fire and if the Stanper brothers hadn't mentioned Jet Ski's to Miyamoto; we would have had F-Zero on water instead of WaveRace64 anyway. Would love to see these franchises return but it seems Nintendo (and NST lol) are done. How about some Ridge Racer from NAMCO while we're wishing too. Excitebike 64 is still brilliant. But you don't like blue storm? I LOVE blue storm.
liger05 Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Splatoon wasn't an existing series that had proven to not be a seller, which is why the risk was taken. You're changing the narrative and changing what I said. Am I? Even if you take splatoon away doesn't the success of fire emblem show that just because an IP hasn't sold gangbusters before that doesn't mean there is no hope. To treat franchises like F-Zero as some small eShop title would be a joke and would only do more damage. People are not asking for some stripped down cheap F-Zero.
tapedeck Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Excitebike 64 is still brilliant. But you don't like blue storm? I LOVE blue storm. I've got excitebike64 to play still. (Would LOVE an Excitetruck/Bots sequel too!) Didn't mind Blue Storm at the time but it is weak when compared to the original. NST's Blue Storm is too loose when placed next to EAD's majestic control and unparalleled wave physics racer on the less powerful N64. That game has yet to be touched in 20yrs IMO.
Serebii Posted October 23, 2016 Author Posted October 23, 2016 Am I? Even if you take splatoon away doesn't the success of fire emblem show that just because an IP hasn't sold gangbusters before that doesn't mean there is no hope. To treat franchises like F-Zero as some small eShop title would be a joke and would only do more damage. People are not asking for some stripped down cheap F-Zero. How would it "only do more damage"? These games don't sell. This is a fact. If Nintendo were to put them out, and they bomb, and do that for all the desired franchises, it would do significant damage. Also, it being on the eShop doesn't mean it'll be stripped down or cheap. Come on.
Hogge Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 How would it "only do more damage"? These games don't sell. This is a fact. If Nintendo were to put them out, and they bomb, and do that for all the desired franchises, it would do significant damage. Also, it being on the eShop doesn't mean it'll be stripped down or cheap. Come on. First off, check my last post, as I don't want to multipost the exact same thing. Second: Consumers don't care if tha game sells poorly. All they care about is that the games that they buy, or intend to buy, live up to expectations.
liger05 Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) How would it "only do more damage"? These games don't sell. This is a fact. If Nintendo were to put them out, and they bomb, and do that for all the desired franchises, it would do significant damage. Also, it being on the eShop doesn't mean it'll be stripped down or cheap. Come on. You said test the waters with smaller eshop titles? Why would I buy an fzero which is treated as an eshop title or an experiment to see how it performs commercially. Give me a fully fledged experience with a sufficient budget or none at all. You keep saying the games don't sell yet conviently ignore what was said about fire emblem awakening and the demand of 250k sales. Due to declining sales of the Fire Emblem series, Nintendo had told the Fire Emblem team that if sales of this latest game didn’t reach 250,000 copies, the series would come to an end. After a brief moment of panic, the development team decided to throw in all sorts of ideas that would make sure the newest game sold well. Some of the ideas that arose were rather drastic—such as setting the game in the real world—but ultimately, because they knew they had to draw in as many old fans as new ones, the team decided not to risk making any veterans of the series feel betrayed and stuck with ideas that had worked throughout the series. Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/25/fire-emblem-awakening-was-almost-the-last-game-in-the-series/#V4YTY6HJAVBhGix5.99 Now if one would of followed your theory we wouldn't of got that game but some smaller eshop title to test the waters. Edited October 23, 2016 by liger05
Ashley Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Michel Ancel finds original SNES version of Rayman, jokes(?) he should release it on Switch: http://www.polygon.com/2016/10/23/13373254/raymans-canceled-snes-debut-found-by-creator-after-almost-25-years
Clownferret Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 I'm sure most of us would happily take HD remasters of these games with online and chuck in a few extra tracks
Nicktendo Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 I'm sure most of us would happily take HD remasters of these games with online and chuck in a few extra tracks If it means we actually get them then I would in a heartbeat.
Hogge Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 I'm sure most of us would happily take HD remasters of these games with online and chuck in a few extra tracks Atless they were released at a very competitive price point, it would be terrible value for money. Apart for Excitebike 64, which was pretty impressive with its level editor, campaign, desert mode, NES-mode and so on.. Perhaps if Pilotwings 64, 1080 and Waverace 64 were to be sold on the same disc, then maybe it would be worth the money.
Retro_Link Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Perhaps doing that with F-Zero X would be worth the effort due to that games barren environments: OMG I'd die. F-Zero-X is perfection for me. The tracks and music are the best in the series for me.
Retro_Link Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 The SSX reboot hardly set the sales charts on fireThat game was sent out to die I thought - It didn't have multiplayer... Sure you could race your friends ghosts, but they'd have had a sale from me if it had splitscreen/online.
Retro_Link Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) How would it "only do more damage"? These games don't sell. This is a fact. If Nintendo were to put them out, and they bomb, and do that for all the desired franchises, it would do significant damage. Also, it being on the eShop doesn't mean it'll be stripped down or cheap. Come on. And yet Nintendo put out games like Federation Force. Is that supposedly 'testing the water' for another Metroid?... Federation Force - didn't sell, bombed, and did significant damage to both the Metroid franchise and Nintendo's seal of quality. Mario Tennis Wii U - didn't sell, bombed and did damage to the brand. Animal Crossing: Board Game Bollocks - didn't sell, bombed and did damage to the brand. M&L: Paper Jam... yep. All these are example of doing exactly what you just stated they shouldn't do. You're telling me that amongst all this we couldn't get a 1080, WaveRace, Excitebike, Advance Wars, F-Zero too? Edited October 24, 2016 by Retro_Link
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