liger05 Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 could be 360p/540p in handheld mode, then double for the tv - keeps things simple. If things look ok on a 32 inch tv (what is the average tv size these days?) it should look great on a 6 inch or however large the handheld portion would be. 480p is about what the 3ds is capable of, so 540p would be a modest increase in outputand tbh is most likely in my head, with the main console aiming for 1080p 30 or 720 60 3ds is 240p. Vita is 540p There's no way they would go 540p. Maybe only for the handheld and the tv would output the game at 720/1080 but even then. I think either 720p handheld/1080p TV or 900p for both. I the the main issue with 720p+ on a handheld is power drain. 540p with a very good IPS or maybe super LCD would still be very sharp. The issue is if nintendo cheap out and go for a lesser quality screen
Pestneb Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 3ds is 240p. Vita is 540p I the the main issue with 720p+ on a handheld is power drain. 540p with a very good IPS or maybe super LCD would still be very sharp. The issue is if nintendo cheap out and go for a lesser quality screen 3ds has effectively a 800*240p screen, and a 320*240 screen..I didn't do the maths but yes you are right, I probably over estimated the 3ds. 720p = ~922k pixels 800*240 = 192k 320*240 = 76k so 268k for the 3ds...518k for 540p. So having actually done (probably bad) maths 540p sounds all the more likely. True screens use a lot of energy so there also a drain on the battery there (as there would be if a fan was required) and they don't want nxs actually burning holes in peoples pockets, so... I definitely don't expect 1080p from their next handheld.
Rummy Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) It's the same as the X2 that's being referenced, the X2 has yet to be formally announced. The NX dev kits reportedly use a fan cooled X1, so it could be assumed that its being overclocked to run at the base clock speed of the X2. It would be great news if true, as it would put the console closer to the Xbox One than the Wii U in terms of processing power. From the little that I know about graphics card technology the fact that could be using Pascal architecture is very exciting, as its much more efficient than previous tech due to the larger number of transistors they can fit in a chip with the Pascal tech. Ahhh right, that makes perfect sense then! Was just a bit of a curveball I didn't understand. Would it be likely that early games might not be as quite up to scratch as later games, due to a possibly weaker chip in the early dev kits, even overcooled? Not that it'd bother me, if anything it's almost a feeling of natural progression. I wonder if the fact its display is rumoured to be 540p means that the processor can run more efficiently when playing on the go, allowing the system to run cooler and for longer, but the processor can then kick up and use its full power when docked and connected to TV and running games at higher resolutions. I'm not sure how much processing power is freed up when rendering games at almost half the resolution but I'm sure it would be a substantial amount and maybe enough to give the console a reasonable battery life and efficiency. 540p limit for handheld given likely screen size would be ok, would it not? Then maybe the dock is something that can somehow work off the handheld hardware with a GPU/CPU boost and maybe a cooling fan/system to avoid it being under too much pressure etc. It's quite an interesting idea if it works well. Same. I think people are investing too much energy (and emotion) on something that remains just a rumour - Eurogamer have got stuff wrong in the past. Well yeah, I'm still taking it all with a rather large pinch of salt - but it's exciting to speculate! It's invigorated this topic with some pretty good discussions and is getting people excited again. People had been saying for a while that it was difficult to keep thinking/talking about with next to no info - so even if a rumour like this turns out to be dud it'll have got people talking! I imagine there'll be at least some elements of truth inside it, too. Edited July 30, 2016 by Rummy
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) It's not just Eurogamer though. There are multiple sources. I think Nintendo have controlled the leaks to a certain extent TBH I'm happy that you're so hyped - I really want to be too. I think this is amazing news to a primary handheld user, but to the home console enthusiast its leaves a gaping hole. As for the games, if everyone has pretty much accepted that third party support will be on the down low, then Nintendo has the tricky task of agreeing a first party release schedule and whether its a game geared toward the big screen or portable - and if its for the big screen we have to accept some limitations due to the portability, unless something at home will be boosting the console. Generally, I believe hardware is nothing to be excited about if the games aren't flowing. I thought the Wii U was brilliant tech at the beginning and I think I still do, but the software cull was what just made it irrelevant for me. Like @Blade says, they HAVE to market this thing succinctly - I hope that not having the Wii brand will help - but the later this is announced, the less amount of time Nintendo has to relay that message. Well yeah, I'm still taking it all with a rather large pinch of salt - but it's exciting to speculate! It's invigorated this topic with some pretty good discussions and is getting people excited again. People had been saying for a while that it was difficult to keep thinking/talking about with next to no info - so even if a rumour like this turns out to be dud it'll have got people talking! I imagine there'll be at least some elements of truth inside it, too. Of course, of course - I'm not trying to be a Debbie-downer now. Edited July 30, 2016 by King_V Automerged Doublepost
Sheikah Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 3ds has effectively a 800*240p screen, and a 320*240 screen..I didn't do the maths but yes you are right, I probably over estimated the 3ds. 720p = ~922k pixels 800*240 = 192k 320*240 = 76k so 268k for the 3ds...518k for 540p. So having actually done (probably bad) maths 540p sounds all the more likely. True screens use a lot of energy so there also a drain on the battery there (as there would be if a fan was required) and they don't want nxs actually burning holes in peoples pockets, so... I definitely don't expect 1080p from their next handheld. 3DS is not 800*240, it is 400*240. The 800 is misleading - this the result of a double image just used to generate the 3D effect. Actual resolution is 400*240, much too low IMO.
Pestneb Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 3DS is not 800*240, it is 400*240. The 800 is misleading - this the result of a double image just used to generate the 3D effect. Actual resolution is 400*240, much too low IMO. From what I understand, in 3d mode the 3ds sends one 400*240 image to the left eye and one 400*240 image to the other eye. Both images are a tiny bit different, so the console is processing to display the same thing twice - much like the Wii U in starfox zero.... is this not correct? because if it is correct, from a gpu perspective, it is 800*240.
Sheikah Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 From what I understand, in 3d mode the 3ds sends one 400*240 image to the left eye and one 400*240 image to the other eye. Both images are a tiny bit different, so the console is processing to display the same thing twice - much like the Wii U in starfox zero.... is this not correct? because if it is correct, from a gpu perspective, it is 800*240. The effective result of the double image is a 400*240 3D image. If you looked at a 3DS screenshot and a native 800*240 image side by side you would notice that the 3DS image is half the resolution. Turning 3D off demonstrates this even further as then the image is pure 400*240. Kinda mad that they went with 3D over having a higher resolution game.
Dufniall Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 If the handheld is Tegra 2 then surely it wouldn't need to be boosted by a dock st all. That would be fantastic power wouldn't it? Could the Tegra 2 be in the dock as a boost to the Tegra 1 in the handheld? I literally have no idea how any of this works. I know PCs can scale up and down, doesn't make any sense to me how that could work on a handheld to home console, it can either work or not. Better resolution/frame rate only does so much doesn't it? I am not sure how it would work with mobile chips, but for example in laptops this is already being done: http://www.techtimes.com/articles/161982/20160531/asus-rog-xg-station-2-graphics-card-dock-that-turns-any-laptop-into-a-vr-ready-machine.htm Basically a graphics card dock which you can hook onto a laptop to use the extra power for better graphic rendering. Your laptop does work without, but runs a game on say HFD with medium graphics. Slap a dock onto it with a GTX1070 and you are running on ultra settings. This would mean though that the games also need to be able to scale, and I'm not sure how that would work for 3rd party support. A console game plays or doesn't, while a PC game can run at different settings. Although, we do see this with for example MH4U, which runs better on a New 3DS than on a 3DS. And with the 4.5 Playstation and the improved XBox, it will work similar I guess.
Ashley Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 If we are still assuming it will be shown in September, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect Nintendo to be doing the rounds over the last few weeks showing it off.
dazzybee Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Eurogamer, mvc, wall street journal, kataku, ign have all said their sources have verified the info. I really really don't think this is wrong. The rumors of it using the tegra is very exciting, the closer to Xbox one this is the higher the chances of third parties. But it all seems too powerful for a handheld to cope in my completely unkowledgeable mind. Sounds way too good to be true. If the thing docks, what do they do about touchscreen gaming playing on a tele? Maybe quite simply you can't play those games on a tele.
Pestneb Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 The effective result of the double image is a 400*240 3D image. If you looked at a 3DS screenshot and a native 800*240 image side by side you would notice that the 3DS image is half the resolution. Turning 3D off demonstrates this even further as then the image is pure 400*240. Kinda mad that they went with 3D over having a higher resolution game. Ok... so the GPU is doing the same work as it would outputting an 800*240 image... I am well aware that we only perceive half of it's work. I hope you see that in context using a screenshot as an example is a bit disingenuous - my point was related to GPU performance more so than the qualities of the screen and perception of the gamer. Of course if the NX includes 3d tech when on the run then maybe it will only effectively be 480p in handheld mode - I presume that is the point you were attempting to make? Eurogamer, mvc, wall street journal, kataku, ign have all said their sources have verified the info. I really really don't think this is wrong. The rumors of it using the tegra is very exciting, the closer to Xbox one this is the higher the chances of third parties. But it all seems too powerful for a handheld to cope in my completely unkowledgeable mind. Sounds way too good to be true. If the thing docks, what do they do about touchscreen gaming playing on a tele? Maybe quite simply you can't play those games on a tele. maybe that bridge you were talking about has a touchpad... or more likely games will have conventional controls included. One other possibility, what if this really is Wii U in reverse... and the handheld wirelessly sends an hdmi signal to the dock which then displays the image on the tv :|
liger05 Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) The effective result of the double image is a 400*240 3D image. If you looked at a 3DS screenshot and a native 800*240 image side by side you would notice that the 3DS image is half the resolution. Turning 3D off demonstrates this even further as then the image is pure 400*240. Kinda mad that they went with 3D over having a higher resolution game. They mistakenly thought 3D was going to be big. Hollywood has been trying for decades. 3D without glasses actually was a decent idea it's just 3D isn't something people really care about. Edited July 30, 2016 by liger05
Ronnie Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Glasses-free 3D gaming on the go was a very cool innovation tbf and I'll occasionally use it, but in hindsight I would have just preferred a higher res screen. It's a cool selling point though and probably helped shift a few million units
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I thought 3D was a better creative 'gimmick' than most and there was always a curiosity as to how impressive the visuals could be. Would be happy to see it advanced on better tech.
david.dakota Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 In respect of 3DS I always felt the 3D was far more impressive than the hgher resolution of PSV. There was a rumour a while back that NX would be an evolution of Wii U tech - surely we're not physically connecting to this dock - it'll be wireless, right?
Happenstance Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I pretty much only ever used the 3D once per game on my 3DS. I'd turn it on to see how it looked then turn it back off again.
liger05 Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 This is a good short comment on what iwata did say or rather didn't regarding a hybrid: https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/07/30/stop-putting-words-into-satoru-iwatas-mouth/ “Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.”
Ashley Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 So he says we'll get two consoles, more than two consoles and one console in two paragraphs? Granted he's not talking about just the next console in all instances, but it certainly leaves things open!
dazzybee Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 But.... But... @Serebii said he denied it completely! What do people think the chances are of the shop games porting over or is that an impossibility?
killthenet Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 But.... But... @Serebii said he denied it completely! What do people think the chances are of the shop games porting over or is that an impossibility? Because there is the unified My Nintendo account now, I would be very surprised if our Virtual Console games weren't able to be transferred over, but I don't think we'd get access to our other eShop games.
Rummy Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 If the thing docks, what do they do about touchscreen gaming playing on a tele? Maybe quite simply you can't play those games on a tele. Given the presumed setup of this as a handheld that docks - I simply think they'll either not go for touch screen gaming(a bit weird/a bit of a shame given it's commonplace in mobile devices now) - or as someone suggests a touch-screen 'bridge' of sorts for between the control ends when you're docked in at home. I'd considered it a few days ago - maybe as a 'dumb' screen of sorts, but then that brings us back into an element of dual screen gaming/touching and taking eyes of the TV similar to WiiU. Yet we have also been told that Breath of the Wild is to be on NX AND WiiU - so will they change up what they're doing with the Gamepad for it, to make a difference to the NX version? As for VC titles I think they're too easy to make money off - so I think it's likely that some big classics will start appearing on this new system too. Not sure I'm going to say they'll carry over from Wii/WiiU generation though.
dazzybee Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 Because there is the unified My Nintendo account now, I would be very surprised if our Virtual Console games weren't able to be transferred over, but I don't think we'd get access to our other eShop games. Yeah, the worry is as its a new development system they'll have to re-do all the vc games again so it may be yet another trickle, but they better not make us pay. Eshop, yeah highly doubtful. But they moved on the 3ds and Wii u so you never know... Maybe it's up to the developers of the games, can move them over if they want. Just really hope this account is fully operational and effective. Having the full vc library would be great. So moving forward they can focus on GameCube, n64, Wii and the handhelds. Given the presumed setup of this as a handheld that docks - I simply think they'll either not go for touch screen gaming(a bit weird/a bit of a shame given it's commonplace in mobile devices now) - or as someone suggests a touch-screen 'bridge' of sorts for between the control ends when you're docked in at home. I'd considered it a few days ago - maybe as a 'dumb' screen of sorts, but then that brings us back into an element of dual screen gaming/touching and taking eyes of the TV similar to WiiU. Yet we have also been told that Breath of the Wild is to be on NX AND WiiU - so will they change up what they're doing with the Gamepad for it, to make a difference to the NX version? As for VC titles I think they're too easy to make money off - so I think it's likely that some big classics will start appearing on this new system too. Not sure I'm going to say they'll carry over from Wii/WiiU generation though. Yeah, it's a potentially tricky one. It could be a case of the touch screen games you have to play on the handheld, so if mobile games ported over you just play them like you would on a mobile. Maybe that's why Nintendo took it away from Zelda completely. Trying to think of Wii u touch based games, if they're touch focussed you end up looking at the screen anyway really. Say Mario maker, make the games on the handheld device, play them on the tele (well either)
Rummy Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 Hmm. I mean, I like touch and don't want to lose it, just thinking of parity between touching a pad when using the TV - you aren't looking at the pad so unless there's a visual feedback on the screen of where your finger is etc. The 3DS manages dual screens because the distance your eyes have to travel between the two is so much smaller compared to TV vs Controller(something I didn't truly realise until owning the WiiU) so there's an effect there than I'm worried about, but I also don't want to lose touch input either. I just see it being a much more sort of mobile/on-the-go control method when you're looking at the screen you're touching, than on a TV, if that makes any sense?
david.dakota Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 I like how you're all assuming they'll add in a bridge module.. This dock will be wireless, surely. It makes no sense to be putting in additional units, it'll complicate things, add on costs to the consumer. Nintendo will have been working on increasing it's bandwidth with Wii U streaming tech. By using a wireless dock between controller and dock it'll open up the possibility of touch, possibly even asymetric gameplay, maps etc.
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