Ronnie Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 It seems you're only not allowed to jump to conclusions with regards to Sony... It's looking more likely that this thing will be a performance boosting console with New 3DS type enhancements; Ronnie should be allowed to express his concern. Popel rip the NX for not getting 3rd parties, likely not having cross buy, not getting gamers back, being a hybrid, not being a hybrid etc. Discussion is good fun. Except when it's even slightly negative towards sony and i's "advised against"
Hero-of-Time Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 It seems you're only not allowed to jump to conclusions with regards to Sony... It's looking more likely that this thing will be a performance boosting console with New 3DS type enhancements; Ronnie should be allowed to express his concern. Popel rip the NX for not getting 3rd parties, likely not having cross buy, not getting gamers back, being a hybrid, not being a hybrid etc. Discussion is good fun. Except when it's even slightly negative towards sony and i's "advised against" Nothing wrong with being negative about certain things, I myself have been negative about both companies for various reasons. It's different when you know a member has an agenda and that's when arguments occur.
dazzybee Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 You know what? Unless Nintendo provide a great launch, new adopters will probably tend towards buying the new PS4... True, but SURELY it will be an amazing launch - their teams haven't been making anything. And the ps4.5k will get the whole gaming community in the mindset of buying a new console, so I think it's playing into Nintendo's hands. If they capitalise on it of course.
Hero-of-Time Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 True, but SURELY it will be an amazing launch - their teams haven't been making anything. Remember the Wii to Wii U situation? People said exactly the same thing and look what happened there. Still, I think they will come out fighting this time around. They don't have the expanded audience to rely on anymore, so it really is going to come down to them appealing to gamers.
drahkon Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 And the ps4.5k will get the whole gaming community in the mindset of buying a new console, so I think it's playing into Nintendo's hands. If they capitalise on it of course. What it will come down to: Is Sony's - or rather, the PS4's reputation so good that new adopters will get a PS4K instead of an NX? Or to put it differently: Can Nintendo pull the gaming community away from the new PS4. I'm not so sure the PS4K will play into Nintendo's hands. It could, I don't argue against that, but it may also very well be really bad for them. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out in the end.
dazzybee Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Nothing wrong with being negative about certain things, I myself have been negative about both companies for various reasons. It's different when you know a member has an agenda and that's when arguments occur. You are, and it's good, you're also positive about all three; balance. Sometimes this board and some of its members lack balance. Maybe Ronnie has an agenda, but shouldn't make his views invalid, especially when what he's saying is actually fair; and dismissing them by saying it's only a rumour when we chat about rumours all the time really does feel like "don't attack sony", it's happened a lot previously.
Retro_Link Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Thing is, this perceived attitude isn't true. Personally I think with the PS4K, most of the members on this board, other gamers and those working in the industry are just able to take a far more considered and reasoned approach to the news, instead of just somewhat childish responses. If you actually think about the situation, it makes sense... and really was seen coming, even if a lot of people didn't factor it in to their PS4 purchase, myself included. Instead of a juvenile post like GTFO Sony, I'm listening to opinions on the subject from gamers on here and people within the industry whose opinions I care about, along with how I can make best of the situation... whether that be trade in, or simply waiting for further news and confirmation.
dazzybee Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Remember the Wii to Wii U situation? People said exactly the same thing and look what happened there. Still, I think they will come out fighting this time around. They don't have the expanded audience to rely on anymore, so it really is going to come down to them appealing to gamers. I know... but.... surely... I'm actually very very confident Nintendo are going to absolutely smash it now. There's a good feeling coming out of them, even the rumours and leaks are all mega positive (they weren't for wii u), I just think Nintendo have shown enough to show they've learned a lot. Zelda, Mario Galaxy 3, Monster Hunter 5, Animal Crossing, Luigis Mansion 3, Metroid Prime 4!! It's all coming!! What it will come down to: Is Sony's - or rather, the PS4's reputation so good that new adopters will get a PS4K instead of an NX? Or to put it differently: Can Nintendo pull the gaming community away from the new PS4. I'm not so sure the PS4K will play into Nintendo's hands. It could, I don't argue against that, but it may also very well be really bad for them. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out in the end. Yeah, I guess in a way, say NX is more powerful, that could've been an ace for them to have the best versions, which now won't be the case. I guess I see it as the situation has been levelled; people will be upgrading and now have 2 (3? Are MS doing the same thing?)... before there was a concern that Nintendo would jumping in mid-gem and gamers are happy with the ps4/xbone; which now isn't the case. Certainly made E3 even more exciting in some ways.
Ashley Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 You are, and it's good, you're also positive about all three; balance. Sometimes this board and some of its members lack balance. Maybe Ronnie has an agenda, but shouldn't make his views invalid, especially when what he's saying is actually fair; and dismissing them by saying it's only a rumour when we chat about rumours all the time really does feel like "don't attack sony", it's happened a lot previously. Just to reiterate, yes we're all allowed to talk about rumours but to say Sony " is sticking a middle finger up " based on rumours is a bit extreme. You can be annoyed about the possibility but insulting Sony for something that is, at present, unsubstantiated is putting the cart before the horse.
Ronnie Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 The reactions to the NX controller "leak" were just as extreme, if not more so, but of course no one minded because it's fashionable to hate on Nintendo for the slightest thing. I have no agenda, I would just like balance, not one rule for Nintendo, one rule for Playstation, which it so clearly is on here.
Ashley Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I don't recall anyone saying Nintendo was insulting it's audience. Plenty of people were saying they don't want something like that to happen, but I can't recall anyone criticising Nintendo in that moment based on the rumours. Happy to be proven wrong though. I'd hardly call your antics in the other console forum without agenda.
dazzybee Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Just to reiterate, yes we're all allowed to talk about rumours but to say Sony " is sticking a middle finger up " based on rumours is a bit extreme. You can be annoyed about the possibility but insulting Sony for something that is, at present, unsubstantiated is putting the cart before the horse. People were telling him to stop having opinions based on rumours long before he said that (which he only said this morning didn't he?). I think it's fine to completely disagree with Ronnie, not like the way he expresses himself against Sony, anything goes, it's just the dismissing and saying he shouldn't be saying it based on rumours... I'm not sure if anyone said "insulting" specifically, but people definitely said it didn't know it's audience, or ignoring them or something like that... @Hogge was it? Blade, Kav and Lostmario and Fierce_Link have all implied similar too. I think they're fair points though.
Ashley Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 People were telling him to stop having opinions based on rumours long before he said that (which he only said this morning didn't he?). I think it's fine to completely disagree with Ronnie, not like the way he expresses himself against Sony, anything goes, it's just the dismissing and saying he shouldn't be saying it based on rumours... I'm not sure if anyone said "insulting" specifically, but people definitely said it didn't know it's audience, or ignoring them or something like that... @Hogge was it? Blade, Kav and Lostmario and Fierce_Link have all implied similar too. I think they're fair points though. I personally told him there was no point getting angry about what might happen if rumours are true until we see if they are but that's largely for his own good (why get angry about something that might not happen? It's a waste of energy) but it was meant to be advisory (on a personal rather than admin level) rather than insistent. Apologies if it didn't come across this way. As you alluded to people saying Nintendo didn't know their audience are likely to be the result of Nintendo's past more than the rumours themselves.
Zechs Merquise Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Let's look at this objectively - we don't actually know what Sony or Nintendo are planning, but we have a very good idea. Most things we know are based on speculation, but from reliable sources and from different sources - which goes some way to verify the claims. We do know both Nintendo and SOny are releasing new hardware that will most likely be unveiled this year and demoed at E3. As far as I'm concerned, the PS4K isn't necessary - it has been made 'necessary' by developers who seem to be in a bizarre arms race that pushes graphical fidelity over everything else. I still think games running in 720p at a stable frame rate of 60fps would produce gorgeous looking games that most importantly would be stable and run properly. Instead, developers have engaged in a race to see who can pump out the most mind blowing graphics and keep up with PC gaming. This is a nonsense. Last gen my PC could out pace a 360, but it didn't mean that the 360 was a waste of money or that the games looked bad on it! But this new arms race is pushing up costs to the point where more and more studios are being forced to close as the break even point on sales gets higher and higher and games selling millions of copies are no longer regarded as a success! The advantage of a games console is that you don't have to upgrade it, you put in the media (cart or disk) and play the game. Yes, we've seen expansion packs and add ons (at the end of a generation), but the home market has never seen a console be replaced this early and the potential creation of a two tier system where the new adopters of the spec bumped console will get a much better experience! Personally, I think it's a big 'fuck you' to gamers and has a lot to do with Sony's interest in pushing 4K TVs. As far as Nintendo are concerned, people keep bashing them over whether they will get third parties back and whether they are still 'relevant' to gamers. But ultimately, if Sony do go forth with a big enough spec bump to make games much more playable through a PS4K rather than a PS4, then Nintendo could well benefit from that. People will see new hardware coming out from multiple companies and it won't feel as weird seeing Nintendo releasing a console mid-generation. I think it's odd though that when we were all speculating on Nintendo's next controller, any guess was good and speculation was encouraged - to the point where fake controllers were being shown. Now the PS4K has been brought into speculation people are being told not to speculate! How bizarre.
Ashley Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I don't think developers are seeking better specs to make things prettier, but rather get more out of games in terms of features, mechanics and the like. It takes processing power to do that and I believe that, as well as some desire to make things look better, is the driver behind the desire. I don't believe it's as simple as wanting things to look nicer. And again you can speculate based on rumours. Nobody has deleted speculation, just advised against hating on Sony (or others) based on limited knowledge. Plus this isn't really the right thread to be discussing it in details.
Retro_Link Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I'm glad you raised the point that it's seemingly developers asking for this, rather than @Ronnie's assumption that selectively Sony are just out to screw everyone.
somme Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I've put balanced arguments regarding the NX and other consoles many times before but they always seem to get ignored, especially if they're debunking some stupid, cyclical argument Ronnie has started up again such as; no colour in PS4 games, only FPS's, no variety, etc etc. I'm getting quite bored of the whole thing and frankly, Ronnie's constant baiting isn't helping.
Ronnie Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) Baiting by Sheikah and bashing by everyone else is fine of course, as long as it's in Nintendo's direction, but DEFINITELY NOT towards Playstation. God forbid. As far as I'm concerned, the PS4K isn't necessary - it has been made 'necessary' by developers who seem to be in a bizarre arms race that pushes graphical fidelity over everything else. I still think games running in 720p at a stable frame rate of 60fps would produce gorgeous looking games that most importantly would be stable and run properly. Instead, developers have engaged in a race to see who can pump out the most mind blowing graphics and keep up with PC gaming. It's pretty sad, especially as in a lot of cases, it's at the expense of gameplay. Great post and good call as it being a way of selling 4K tvs. As Altano at IGN said, it's a completely unnecessary hardware revision, that will ultimately screw consumers into spending another 300 quid for a spec bump. I seriously doubt developers are asking for the PS4K, when they're having trouble making a profit on AAA games as it is. Edited April 19, 2016 by Ronnie
Mr-Paul Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Ronnie, there's no baiting and bashing from anyone. I don't remember anything unreasonable in the NX's direction, just concerns and hopes based on the rumours, and the exact same is happening here, most people here seem sceptical about PS4K but no-one else is having a big tantrum about it.
Retro_Link Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Ronnie, there's no baiting and bashing from anyone. I don't remember anything unreasonable in the NX's direction, just concerns and hopes based on the rumours, and the exact same is happening here, most people here seem sceptical about PS4K but no-one else is having a big tantrum about it.This. *have run out of Thanks.*
Retro_Link Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 I seriously doubt developers are asking for the PS4K, when they're having trouble making a profit on AAA games as it is. Except that they seemingly are. Every console this generation has been underpowered from launch.
Ronnie Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Ronnie, there's no baiting and bashing from anyone. I don't remember anything unreasonable in the NX's direction, just concerns and hopes based on the rumours, and the exact same is happening here, most people here seem sceptical about PS4K but no-one else is having a big tantrum about it. I didn't mean the NX specifically, have a read through the toxic Wii U thread and you'll see plenty of examples though. Except that they seemingly are. Every console this generation has been underpowered from launch. If that's true then it makes the PS4K even more dodgy, almost as if this is exactly what Playstation planned for. Make an underpowered console at launch, then release a new one three years later.
Retro_Link Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) I didn't mean the NX specifically, have a read through the toxic Wii U thread and you'll see plenty of examples though. If that's true then it makes the PS4K even more dodgy, almost as if this is exactly what Playstation planned for. Make an underpowered console at launch, then release a new one three years later. Take off your blinkers man! Underpowered because the industry moves so quickly. Ok underpowered IS the wrong word. Obsolete, out dated, compromised. 'OMG Nintendo are so dodgy, they released the 3DS knowing they'd release a NEW 3DS a few years later. 'Screw you Nintendo! Releasing that ugly as sin Nintendo DS and then expecting me to buy that beautiful looking DS lite a year later' 'A Wavebird controller!!??... But I already have a Gamecube controller. GTFO' 'My Gameboy games but in colour?!!... Nintendo you scheming bastards! Edited April 19, 2016 by Retro_Link
dazzybee Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) I personally told him there was no point getting angry about what might happen if rumours are true until we see if they are but that's largely for his own good (why get angry about something that might not happen? It's a waste of energy) but it was meant to be advisory (on a personal rather than admin level) rather than insistent. Apologies if it didn't come across this way. As you alluded to people saying Nintendo didn't know their audience are likely to be the result of Nintendo's past more than the rumours themselves. Oh no, I agree with you, it isn't worth getting actually angry about it until we know exactly what it is; others weren't advising to not be angry, but actually advising not to comment on them. But whatever, it's an interesting twist to the NX release I think, all of a sudden maybe all three will be releasing new consoles in a matter of speaking, and a new approach to what we've seen in the hardware space; I think it's great to discuss what could happen. I was getting an Ultra HD player anyway, so PS4k could actually be a decent option for me on that alone as the players are quite expensive. Unless NX could play Ultra HD but that really would be a new nintendo! Edited April 19, 2016 by dazzybee
Ronnie Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Take off your blinkers man! Underpowered because the industry moves so quickly. Ok underpowered IS the wrong word. Obsolete, out dated, compromised. 'OMG Nintendo are so dodgy, they released the 3DS knowing they'd release a NEW 3DS a few years later. 'Screw you Nintendo! Releasing that ugly as sin Nintendo DS and then expecting me to buy that beautiful looking DS lite a year later' 'A Wavebird controller!!??... But I already have a Gamecube controller. GTFO' 'My Gameboy games but in colour?!!... Nintendo you scheming bastards! The new 3DS was released four years after the original and only added a few minor alterations. The games still looked the same. No one felt like they were being screwed. The DS lite was the same console as the DS just in a different shell and the Gameboy Colour was released a decade after the original. If the PS4K simply output visuals in 4K, was slimmer, made less noise, had more storage etc, I wouldn't care less, but it's likely to be a major hardware revision that'll make every game look far more impressive. This isn't the same as throwing in an analog nub and NFC.
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