Hero-of-Time Posted July 11, 2014 Author Posted July 11, 2014 I carried on my journey late last night and then managed to get a bit done before I set off to work this morning. After defeating the second club I ran into my rival. I was defeated by him first time as my deck wasn't best suited to battle against him. Luckily I had saved before I encountered him so I altered my deck accordingly. I made up a water based deck and went at him again. I was hold him off with my Seel and then a Dewgong card came along which allowed me to evolve and start decimating his team. I beat the SOB and grabbed his rare Jigglypuff card off him. You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse I called it a night after that. This morning I headed off to the Rock Club in high spirits after my victory. First challenger was Matthew. I used the Caterpie card mostly during this battle. It turned out to be pretty useful. Due to the type weakness and the fact I could stun them with string shot, I manged to take down most of his team. I finished him off by bringing Pinsir out to play. Andrew was next. I started by using Nidoran, when then I evolved into Nidorino. I used Horndrill for the most part, which was doing double damage taking off a nice 100hp with each attack. The only obstacle was Jynx as it wasn't weak to my attacks. Thankfully Horndrill still does 50 damage as a basic move, so it was still good enough to do the business. Ryan stepped up to the plate for my next battle. We both used Cubone at the start and while he was trying to power his up I was using mine as bait while I sorted out my team behind the scenes. I kept healing Cubone until it was time to unleash Nidorino again. Once again Horndrill did the job and at that point I sweeped away his team. The final fight was against the Club leader, Gene. I used Caterpie at the start, once again just holding off the enemy until I could unleash Pinsir. Once I switched Pinsir in it was game over. Ryhorn was already weak from Caterpies attacks so he got hit with one shot and went down. Diglett came out and got one shotted. Geodude arrived and then got defeated instantly. At this point Gene couldn't keep up with placing his energy cards and every Pokemon he sent out had nothing attached. It made no difference anyway as all of them got beaten in one hit. Bye bye, Gene. You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse That's me done until I get in from work today.
Glen-i Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 How the fuck does this not have multiplayer, it's twenty-fucking-fourteen! Seriously getting some deja vu here... Seriously no multiplayer? what is wrong with Nintendo If you're expecting multiplayer on a 3DS Virtual Console game, you're only deluding yourself. I can only imagine it's because of how unstable wireless connections can be. You have to remember, we busted out Link Cables back then. Picture it now, the instant some bad connection issues happen, BAM! Connection error. There would be so many problems, I can see why they didn't bother.
Debug Mode Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I can only imagine it's because of how unstable wireless connections can be. You have to remember, we busted out Link Cables back then. Picture it now, the instant some bad connection issues happen, BAM! Connection error. There would be so many problems, I can see why they didn't bother. And yet there have been 2 generations of wireless multiplayer, I'm not sure if you've thought through your reasoning..
Serebii Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Link cables required a constant stream of data both sent and received. Wireless is done through packets. It'd require significant recoding to allow for it.
Debug Mode Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Link cables required a constant stream of data both sent and received. Wireless is done through packets. It'd require significant recoding to allow for it. And yet you can play ports of old games on, for example, a PS3, via wireless absolutely no problem despite the fact the multiplayer for those games were originally rendered by the one console and were entirely dependent on the constant stream of information from both players. So. If these developers could put in the significant recoding required !!!(CITATION NEEDED)!!! , how come Nintendo can't? It's either laziness or lack of competency, your choice on how to spin it Going one step further, emulators have been able to pull off multiplayer over online for a decade, and Nintendo can't manage to pull off even local multiplayer?
Dcubed Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) And yet there have been 2 generations of wireless multiplayer, I'm not sure if you've thought through your reasoning.. No, his reasoning makes sense. It wouldn't be impossible, but it would be very difficult to do well. GB/GBA games that use the link cable would be designed to expect a perfect connection at all times (after all, a physical link cable is binary. You've either got it plugged in or you don't); wireless however can suffer from interference or just a weak signal. The moment a single packet is lost, the game would think that the "link cable" would be unplugged and would just kick you out of the game. These games aren't designed to deal with any sort of packet loss or signal interference. Even games that are re-coded to run natively can struggle with this (Four Swords Anniversary is a good example as it is very sensitive to even the smallest bit of interference and can lose connection much more often than most other DS games - it's very demanding when it comes to latency). There are ways you could design around it (you could run two emulator instances on the one 3DS each, running with a simulated link cable internally, and send button inputs/save files over wireless - but that brings about potential performance and synchronization issues of its own). It's a very difficult thing to get right and I'm not surprised that they can't be bothered to do it, as disappointing as it is And yet you can play ports of old games on, for example, a PS3, via wireless absolutely no problem despite the fact the multiplayer for those games were originally rendered by the one console and were entirely dependent on the constant stream of information from both players. So. If these developers could put in the significant recoding required !!!(CITATION NEEDED)!!! , how come Nintendo can't? It's either laziness or lack of competency, your choice on how to spin it Going one step further, emulators have been able to pull off multiplayer over online for a decade, and Nintendo can't manage to pull off even local multiplayer? I'm not sure what PS3 games you're referring to here, but I'm sure that you're aware that ports and emulation are two very different things... ... likewise, sending game button inputs over a wireless connection, either local or online, is very different from sending link cable data over wireless. If a button input is lost, then the input is missed but the game carries on. If a link cable packet is missed, the game just shuts down completely. While we're at it, the reason why Nintendo don't offer online play with VC games is because that form of online play is unreliable. They do actually do this with local wireless on NES VC games on 3DS, because that kind of connection is much more stable and predictable; but online is wholly different... It can work, but rarely does it work well (as demonstrated by the countless retro games on PSN/XBLA with shoddy quality online play). Edited July 11, 2014 by Dcubed
Debug Mode Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 The ports I was talking about are the megadrive games, which have been absolutely flawless for me personally. I had as many hiccups with them as any other game on the 360. I honestly don't buy it. Emulators have clearly been able to do it fine, and a game like TCG that handles gameplay with turns should be absolutely fine. I know you say the game completely shuts down, but I just don't get how people who make emulators as a fucking hobby can manage what Nintendo supposedly can't.
darksnowman Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 And H-o-T predictably flies out of the blocks. This guy is a sprinter, not a marathon man, folks. I've done the opening tutorial battle and to be brutally (and embarrassingly) honest, I thought it was pretty complicated! You can do quite a bit in a single turn in the TCG, eh. I've gone with the fire deck cos if in doubt, I always tried to burn my way through the normal Pokémon games. I'm gonna aim to be finishing this in two weekends time. If its as short as you all say, that should be pretty achievable! So if @Jonnas could be on call for the next fortnight that would be great. I'll get a Serebii.net tab open as well for when the going gets too complicated for me. Well, that's how they handled old school Jynx I guess. To compare, here's the original image They just washed the colour out then. Political correctness gone mad.
Jonnas Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 The ports I was talking about are the megadrive games, which have been absolutely flawless for me personally. I had as many hiccups with them as any other game on the 360. I honestly don't buy it. Then let me introduce you to something nifty. Surprise! The Mega Drive already had Wireless controllers! They worked just fine, as long as the controller was facing the right direction. Sure, they weren't Wi-Fi (they were Infra-Red), but it's pretty clear that Mega Drive games have zero issue with running games where the controller can be unplugged/disconnected at any time (can you name any Mega Drive game that pauses itself when it detects no controller?) Emulators have clearly been able to do it fine, and a game like TCG that handles gameplay with turns should be absolutely fine. I know you say the game completely shuts down, but I just don't get how people who make emulators as a fucking hobby can manage what Nintendo supposedly can't. I'm not sure if you ever owned a Link Cable. The thing disconnects, bugs, and kicks you out if the plug rotates too much. That's how sensitive it is, and that's what the game expects. It's not just card games, it's also trading and "Pop up!", but that's beside the point. It really doesn't matter if it's turn based or not, if the original game was coded with the Link Cable in mind, then it's the same amount of work involved in undoing/changing it. So, what emulators are you talking about? Are there emulators turning Gameboy games into Wireless multiplayer fests? Because you seriously need to tell me if that's the case, I wanna try Mole Mania's multiplayer for once!
Debug Mode Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 So, what emulators are you talking about? Are there emulators turning Gameboy games into Wireless multiplayer fests? Because you seriously need to tell me if that's the case, I wanna try Mole Mania's multiplayer for once! Firstly, thanks for the image and information about the Megadrive wireless controllers, I had absolutely no idea they existed! But continuing on the debate at hand.. Two Gameboy emulators that I have used that have working multiplayer: Visual Boy Advance (For PC online and local, not sure if any other platform works) MyBoy! (For android, has working multiplayer links locally) Apparently quite a few work for PC. I was under the impression there was an emulator for PSP that supported ad hoc multiplayer for gameboy games, but I must have been imagining things.
Jonnas Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Firstly, thanks for the image and information about the Megadrive wireless controllers, I had absolutely no idea they existed! No prob You were speaking of Wireless like the controllers I used to have were sci-fi-tech But continuing on the debate at hand.. Two Gameboy emulators that I have used that have working multiplayer: Visual Boy Advance (For PC online and local, not sure if any other platform works) MyBoy! (For android, has working multiplayer links locally) Apparently quite a few work for PC. I was under the impression there was an emulator for PSP that supported ad hoc multiplayer for gameboy games, but I must have been imagining things. I thought MyBoy! only ran Gameboy Advance games? If it's Gameboy Advance we're talking about, that one also had Wireless. (Lol, what kind of Spanish-speaking country uses feet?) But I don't know if GBA games were coded the same way GBC games were. The earlier ones could've been made expecting this add-on to be released at one point, too.
f00had Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Only certain Pokemon games worked with the wireless adapter, every other GBA game could only be played with the link cable.
darksnowman Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Yeah, I got the GBA wireless adaptor with Pokémon Leaf Green when I bought it along with a NES SP. :awesome: Aside from Leaf Green, I'm not sure what other games it's compatible with. Think I used it once, twice at a push. Anyway, out with the old... And in with the new old eShop version. I started my new file and to cut a long story short, this game is every bit as slow and unforgiving as I remembered. How H-o-T or anyone could power through it I don't know. Firstly as I said above, the opening tutorial duel (that the game talks you through, step by step. Yep that one), I found it quite a bit to take in. So of course after that I went round and 'checked' everything and spoke to everyone. A guy in the room next door, Aaron, said we could duel and he would give me energy cards for winning. He'd even let me pick what type of deck he used. Sweet deal I thought. I selected grass for him and we duelled. He beat me in two turns. I went against him again. This time he beat me in 25 odd turns. I only made two or three attacks during the course of all those turns cos he had me either paralysed or confused! Urgh. I had to beat this chump so third time I picked fire for him and finally got a win under my belt after another lengthy duel. This game. I hightailed it over to the Grass Club and took on the first person that offered a duel. I won this one first time (!) but it didn't look good at all and nor was it swift. It wasn't until I FINALLY got a Charmeleon on the go that I was able to turn a losing situation into a win. You boys make it sound like you just kick back and press b to win and the game will be over in no time.
Hero-of-Time Posted July 12, 2014 Author Posted July 12, 2014 Here's my progress tracked by Miiverse. You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse Just the final area left to clear now. I may do a bit of deck building before hitting the Dome though.
Glen-i Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Geez, I've only done one club so far. No more waiting around. I'm gonna up my game! You boys make it sound like you just kick back and press b to win and the game will be over in no time. Luck plays a big part in this game. No matter how good your deck is, sometimes you're just going to be put in a hopeless situation. Have you changed the text speed? It makes things go so much quicker. It's not unheard of to get matches done in 5 minutes most of the time, once you know your way around the menu.
Dcubed Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Hmm... Trying to steamroll my way through the Water Club with my Fire/Fighting deck isn't working... (I beat the first two, but that 3rd git and his stupid army of Lapras' just won't get out of my way!) ... sigh... Looks like I'll have to do this the non-retarded way and tackle the clubs that I actually should be ploughing through
darksnowman Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Geez, I've only done one club so far.No more waiting around. I'm gonna up my game! Luck plays a big part in this game. No matter how good your deck is, sometimes you're just going to be put in a hopeless situation. Have you changed the text speed? It makes things go so much quicker. It's not unheard of to get matches done in 5 minutes most of the time, once you know your way around the menu. No rush but yes text speed is up to max. Luck seems to play a huge part. I was in a duel there and was able to time my coin tosses well for a few turns, while the cpu messed their own up with a Geodude, meaning they inflicted zero damage on me. Then their luck was in and they got heads heads heads heads... and inflicted something like 70 damage on me, which was ample to finish the duel. Hmm... Trying to steamroll my way through the Water Club with my Fire/Fighting deck isn't working... (I beat the first two, but that 3rd git and his stupid army of Lapras' just won't get out of my way!) ... sigh... Looks like I'll have to do this the non-retarded way and tackle the clubs that I actually should be ploughing through Yes, do. I don't want to read about how easy this game is as I toil away.
Jonnas Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 This game. I hightailed it over to the Grass Club and took on the first person that offered a duel. I won this one first time (!) but it didn't look good at all and nor was it swift. It wasn't until I FINALLY got a Charmeleon on the go that I was able to turn a losing situation into a win. You boys make it sound like you just kick back and press b to win and the game will be over in no time. Hmm... With a Fire deck, it's not a bad idea to rely on one good attack. Charmander and Growlithe are good staples (evolving into Charmeleon and Arcanine), but Ponyta/Rapidash are also very good. And both Magmars. Just gotta keep a steady stream of cards flowing, it needs energy. Don't be afraid to use Prof.Oak if you're in a pinch, with Fire, it pays off better to think short term than long term. Is there another element in your deck? Hmm... Trying to steamroll my way through the Water Club with my Fire/Fighting deck isn't working... (I beat the first two, but that 3rd git and his stupid army of Lapras' just won't get out of my way!) ... sigh... Looks like I'll have to do this the non-retarded way and tackle the clubs that I actually should be ploughing through If you don't own have Lightning or Poison, Lapras is a tough cookie to crack. If none of those are available, try another club for now. Unless you want to beat that guy with another type of deck, but I advise you to do that more as a personal challenge later on, instead of making it essential to beat the game.
Gizmo Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Yeah, I got the GBA wireless adaptor with Pokémon Leaf Green when I bought it along with a NES SP. :awesome: Aside from Leaf Green, I'm not sure what other games it's compatible with. Think I used it once, twice at a push. Anyway, out with the old... And in with the new old eShop version. I started my new file and to cut a long story short, this game is every bit as slow and unforgiving as I remembered. How H-o-T or anyone could power through it I don't know. Firstly as I said above, the opening tutorial duel (that the game talks you through, step by step. Yep that one), I found it quite a bit to take in. So of course after that I went round and 'checked' everything and spoke to everyone. A guy in the room next door, Aaron, said we could duel and he would give me energy cards for winning. He'd even let me pick what type of deck he used. Sweet deal I thought. I selected grass for him and we duelled. He beat me in two turns. I went against him again. This time he beat me in 25 odd turns. I only made two or three attacks during the course of all those turns cos he had me either paralysed or confused! Urgh. I had to beat this chump so third time I picked fire for him and finally got a win under my belt after another lengthy duel. This game. I hightailed it over to the Grass Club and took on the first person that offered a duel. I won this one first time (!) but it didn't look good at all and nor was it swift. It wasn't until I FINALLY got a Charmeleon on the go that I was able to turn a losing situation into a win. You boys make it sound like you just kick back and press b to win and the game will be over in no time. If you can get a Magmar out you'll OHKO most of the L1 stuff any of the Grass Clubbers are putting out. Stick in a few trainer cards for additional draws or deck searches and you'll be grand. Have you changed the text speed? It makes things go so much quicker. It's not unheard of to get matches done in 5 minutes most of the time, once you know your way around the menu. Just quoting this again incase anybody misses it and hasn't done it already...it makes things actually bearable!
Hero-of-Time Posted July 12, 2014 Author Posted July 12, 2014 Victory!! The stupid cow who uses the fire deck in the Elite 4 kept screwing me over with her Moltres. I eventually beat her after about an hour trying, after that the rest were a pushover. With them defeated it was time to fight Ronald for the last time. My team of Pikachus butchered him and the legendary cards were mine! You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. View post in Miiverse Quality game and just as good as I remember it. It's just a shame a lot of the game relies on luck rather than skill. What's our next play through?
Jonnas Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Victory!! The stupid cow who uses the fire deck in the Elite 4 kept screwing me over with her Moltres. I eventually beat her after about an hour trying, after that the rest were a pushover. I honestly felt like she had one of the better decks, that Ninetales is hellish. Moltres is not a big fighter, but it makes any fire deck run really smooth.
Hero-of-Time Posted July 12, 2014 Author Posted July 12, 2014 I honestly felt like she had one of the better decks, that Ninetales is hellish. Moltres is not a big fighter, but it makes any fire deck run really smooth. Yeah, that 8 coin toss move is a right pain in the butt!
darksnowman Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Hmm... With a Fire deck, it's not a bad idea to rely on one good attack. Charmander and Growlithe are good staples (evolving into Charmeleon and Arcanine), but Ponyta/Rapidash are also very good. And both Magmars. Just gotta keep a steady stream of cards flowing, it needs energy. Don't be afraid to use Prof.Oak if you're in a pinch, with Fire, it pays off better to think short term than long term. Is there another element in your deck? I weeded out the Rattatas and Ratticates as I got a few boosters, the Machop and its evolution too. There's still a Diglett and Dugtrio and some fighting cards but they are just fodder if they come up during a duel, tbh. Electric is my other main element so far. Which I actually feel could be fun after duelling that NPC who has all the varieties of Pikachu. I want. I have a couple of Pika's and Raichu as well as Magnemite, Magneton and Zapdos. Starting to do ok in the game would you believe. The Diglett/trio will be getting the chop to make room for other more fitting cards. I think fire and electric could be a good enough combo. I have Omanyte and Omaster which I LOVED in Pokémon Red so would like to work it in sometime - probably to a new deck. I gave an NPC a Rapidash card and they gave me nothing in return. What gives? If you can get a Magmar out you'll OHKO most of the L1 stuff any of the Grass Clubbers are putting out. Stick in a few trainer cards for additional draws or deck searches and you'll be grand. I have two Magmars in my deck now and they are pretty great. If I can get the poison move working, it usually means I've a good shot at making a decent duel out of things. Victory!! What's our next play through? Well done! The cards must have fell really luckily for you today. :wink: Our next play through? Well, um, we'll decide on that when we get through this current play through. You may go work on your gamerscore for a week or two.
Glen-i Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Well, that was fast... Back in my game, I chose the grass deck, (I named it the "Psychic in my grass deck") so naturally, I went for Rock Club. Easy peasy! Next I made a deck called "Dirt ruined my Deck" (I like making names that utilise the word "deck" at the end) and was all ready to wage an epic children's card game against the Lightning club! I wiped out 2 of his Pokemon with a Diglett and he had nothing left. Talk about anti-climactic...
Gizmo Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Just finished the Science and Rock clubs. Pushed through Science with more or less the same Fire deck as I was using before, since half of the poison types are weak to Fire. Didn't have too much issue. Then switched to Grass type purely because that was the type I had the most energy for and moved onto Rock. Enjoyed the grass stuff alot - managed to get a Nidoking and a Butterfree out together in one fight, then had a Venasaur more or less immediately in the leader fight and walked through it without incident. I kinda wish at times that the matches were a bit longer ; getting a level 2 out and powered up is very satisfying but its not all that often that you need to get that far in order to win. Even the 6 prize matches aren't that lengthy, usually; think I'd prefer some other method of scoring, though the only thing that comes to mind is some kind of life points which a) doesnt make sense in Pokemon universe and b) is just a YuGiOh ripoff because thats the only other card game I've played much.
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