Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) I'm not all that clued-up on bendable screen tech, but I take it they suffer from the same glare issues as flat screens, right? No idea about glare but it would be a nice way of keeping the dual screen design, while also allowing for a nice big vertical display (plus I would be able to nickname it the "BendyS" - which is such a stupid name that Nintendo would simply have to go with it; and I would love them forever for doing so :p ) See I've heard this a lot, but having recently spent quite a bit of time using an iPad mini (apps and gaming) I'm not sure if I agree. Yes you get a few occasions where it doesn't recognise your input, or just does something weird. But it's actually pretty solid I reckon. And of course if it was part of a Nintendo device, there would still be the traditional directional controls/buttons for precision purposes. I definitely think they should look into it at least. Price will probably be the biggest problem though. Everything on phones and tablets uses large touch targets and simple touch gestures. You could never play something like Trauma Centre, Kirby Power Paintbrush, Zelda Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks or Meteos without hugely dumbing down the experience... Capacitive screens aren't even really expensive at all (in fact I wouldn't be surprised if high quality Resistive screens like what the Wii U Gamepad uses are actually more expensive, given that Capacitive screens have become commodity tech). It's not a matter of one form of tech being "better" than the other, but rather that they offer different advantages (Capacitive = multi touch, while Resistive = better accuracy and cheaper styli) And of course it's also a matter of what advantage is more important to the device in question. Does a Nintendo handheld really need multitouch when you already have a full complement of buttons; has there ever been a DS/3DS/Wii U game that would've really have benefitted from multitouch? (The only one I can think of is Taiko Drum Master on DS/3DS and that was cleverly designed around by making the middle of the virtual drum, which is "touched" when both sides of the drum are touched at the same time, act as the touch target for when you're supposed to hit both drums at the same time - likewise, Pokemon B&W's Feeling Check also used the same trick ). Or is that extra accuracy that makes stuff like Trauma Centre and Art Academy Sketchpad possible more important? Edited April 6, 2014 by Dcubed
Agent Gibbs Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 i feel like since everyone is agreeing on 2016 that i should disagree wildly to offer a counter point so 2015...December 2015 for the holiday season...in japan 2016 everywhere else :p I could see them going the dual screen route again, but the 2DS uses 1 screen doesn't it? so in theory they could go a single screen route, but only if they did a bendable screen tech route, which is currently far more advanced than i'd expect from nintendo, but 3DS was more than i'd expect so who knows Probably a 720p dual screen set up with a Tvout/homeconsole dock, i think thats almost a given now
Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I don't know people are so steadfastly confident that Nintendo are going to merge their handhelds and consoles when Iwata has repeatedly stated that they don't intend to do this... Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. They're looking to adapt the Wii U's hardware architecture into the next console and handheld respectively and have them both run on the same kind of hardware (with appropriately differing specs - just like iPhone and iPad), but that doesn't mean that they will be combined into one machine, or that they'll play the same games... (in fact, the specs will probably vary quite a bit between the two - despite being binary compatible with each other)
liger05 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Why? Why do they need to go to such ridiculous resolutions on such a small screen. It's a waste of power and money at this point. Removing the second screen is also a terrible idea. It's great. Removing it is counter intuitive and will cause things to get cluttered and counter-intuitive again. At worst use, it removes clutter from the gameplay screen. I don't like it when the HUD of a game takes up ridiculous amounts of space. There is actually zero reason to remove the second screen and countless reasons to keep it. Waste of money? 3D technology was a bigger waste of money easily. You can get phones now for £100 with high res screens. Screen technology gets cheaper and cheaper and by the time the new handheld is released it would be ridiculous if there wasn't a high resolution screen. Times have changed changed and an market where smartphones and tablets are taking over Nintendo can't release a handheld which spec wise is way behind. The next handheld can't look and feel antiquated compared to what people use every day. You want people to stop using phones then the handheld has to not only have the software but also look 'cool'. I like the dual screens but do they get used enough? I'm not sure they do and think it's time for a reboot in design of a handheld and time to release something which doesn't look like it's from the DS / 3DS family. Edited April 6, 2014 by liger05
Serebii Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 i feel like since everyone is agreeing on 2016 that i should disagree wildly to offer a counter point so 2015...December 2015 for the holiday season...in japan 2016 everywhere else :p I could see them going the dual screen route again, but the 2DS uses 1 screen doesn't it? so in theory they could go a single screen route, but only if they did a bendable screen tech route, which is currently far more advanced than i'd expect from nintendo, but 3DS was more than i'd expect so who knows Probably a 720p dual screen set up with a Tvout/homeconsole dock, i think thats almost a given now The 2DS does have one screen in a technical sense, yes, but that's for cost saving factors. Waste of money? 3D technology was a bigger waste of money easily. You can get phones now for £100 with high res screens. Screen technology gets cheaper and cheaper and by the time the new handheld is released it would be ridiculous if there wasn't a high resolution screen. Times have changed changed and an market where smartphones and tablets are taking over Nintendo can't release a handheld which spec wise is way behind. The next handheld can't look and feel antiquated compared to what people use every day. You want people to stop using phones then the handheld has to not only have the software but also look 'cool'. I like the dual screens but do they get used enough? I'm not sure they do and think it's time for a reboot in design of a handheld and time to release something which doesn't look like it's from the DS / 3DS family. You asked if they get used enough? Short answer: Of course. Long answer: Of course they bloody do. Every bloody 3DS game uses it. Some to extend the HUD, others for a variety of other factors. Dual screen gaming is the most beneficial "innovation" Nintendo has done in the last 10 years. It also separates the console from the generic single screen dross that plagues phones etc. and gives people reason to see it as a separate device. I don't know people are so steadfastly confident that Nintendo are going to merge their handhelds and consoles when Iwata has repeatedly stated that they don't intend to do this... They're looking to adapt the Wii U's hardware architecture into the next console and handheld respectively and have them both run on the same kind of hardware (with appropriately differing specs - just like iPhone and iPad), but that doesn't mean that they will be combined into one machine, or that they'll play the same games... (in fact, the specs will probably vary quite a bit between the two - despite being binary compatible with each other) Yep, I've been repeating this continually around the net. People, somehow, interpreted Iwata's words to mean a hybrid is coming -_-
Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Waste of money? 3D technology was a bigger waste of money easily. You can get phones now for £100 with high res screens. Screen technology gets cheaper and cheaper and by the time the new handheld is released it would be ridiculous if there wasn't a high resolution screen. Performance is a good enough reason to eschew the kinds of ludicrous resolutions that you see in high end mobiles. These devices aren't even powerful enough to run the kinds of 3D games you'd expect from a handheld device anyway - so they end up having to drop the rendering resolution - making the high res screen a complete waste (see Vita for the same problem with almost every 3D game released on it) I'd be more than happy with a 4 odd inch top screen running at 854 x 480 (assuming a similar form factor as the DS/3DS - and even that resolution feels like overkill for the size IMO) - the same resolution as the Wii U Gamepad in a smaller size - so better DPI. That would also be perfect for VC games as every single pre Wii U game would scale up to that resolution perfectly which, given that it would be using the same architecture as Wii U (and assuming that the specs are good enough), would also leave the handheld perfectly equipped to run the entire Wii U VC library from day 1 Edited April 6, 2014 by Dcubed
nekunando Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I always use the 3D when I'm playing the 3DS as I feel it does add to the experience.. but, I won't be particularly disappointed if it isn't a feature of the next Nintendo handheld! I'm certainly more than happy for them to continue with the dual screen approach but one major criticism I have with the current hardware is that there is too much emphasis on the top screen The fact that the most prominent screen doesn't feature touch means that some of the creativity that made some of the original DS games so impressive has been negated for the large, 3D screen. Excellent games, such as Trauma Centre: Under the Knife and The World Ends With You, focus your attention on the touch screen of the DS to provide awesome new experiences that weren't possible with conventional inputs. Due to the lower screen not being inferior to the top, this wasn't a problem but the 3DS feels like it forces games to focus on the top screen and therfore the touch screen is very much secondary. As unlikely as it is, and I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why it would be a bad idea, but I'd love something like this.. A Nintendo DS Phone that I would take with me everywhere as my main device would be amazing Both screens would be touch screens and, with the phone closed, would allow you to play your typical smart phone games that Nintendo could provide themselves, such as a simple Donkey Kong Country mine cart game where you just have to touch the screen to jump through increasingly difficult levels and obstacles. Little apps like that, for a small price, plus the ability to slide the screen up and play traditional DS style experiences with the buttons and stylus along with Nintendo's Virtual Console library of NES, SNES and N64 games and that is one hot device.. It'll never happen, but it would be perfect for me
liger05 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Performance is a good enough reason to eschew the kinds of ludicrous resolutions that you see in high end mobiles. These devices aren't even powerful enough to run the kinds of 3D games you'd expect from a handheld device anyway - so they end up having to drop the rendering resolution - making the high res screen a complete waste (see Vita for the same problem with almost every 3D game released on it) I'd be more than happy with a 4 odd inch top screen running at 854 x 480 (assuming a similar form factor as the DS/3DS - and even that resolution feels like overkill for the size IMO) - the same resolution as the Wii U Gamepad in a smaller size - so better DPI. That would also be perfect for VC games as every single pre Wii U game would scale up to that resolution perfectly which, given that it would be using the same architecture as Wii U (and assuming that the specs are good enough), would also leave the handheld perfectly equipped to run the entire Wii U VC library from day 1 I mean as a media device as well though. I'm expecting the handheld to have a lot more media functions than the 3DS and watching HD content should be standard. Watching YouTube and other streaming services in HD should be the norm for a device by the time the next Nintendo handheld is out.
Grazza Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 OK, a few more thoughts that I didn't have time for yesterday: Dual Screens - I can't criticise dual screens too much (heck, they surely inspired the whole Etrian Odyssey series) and I think it works well enough. However, I do suspect Nintendo will be ditching it. My prediction is that the 3DS will be the last "DS", and that the next handheld will be the start of a new era. No backwards compatibility with previous handhelds, apart from via Virtual Console. Look at how Nintendo has DS running on the Wii U - that's how I think they'll emulate it (and, when they can, the 3DS) going forwards. Resolution - I've always said resolution is important, but I'm not getting my hopes up for anything other than 853x480 (ie. 480p in 16:9). This links into screen size. People have been debating whether there's any benefit to going single screen... well, it's cheaper and means you can put the cost towards better resolution on the main screen. Controls - I really, really hope it has all the buttons of the 3DS + dual analogue. In my opinion, dual analogue is very important, even on a handheld. There are so many occasions when I'd like to give the right-hand stick a nudge and change the view... only it's not there.
Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I mean as a media device as well though. I'm expecting the handheld to have a lot more media functions than the 3DS and watching HD content should be standard. Watching YouTube and other streaming services in HD should be the norm for a device by the time the next Nintendo handheld is out. Well then it calls into question what kind of device their next handheld will be first and foremost. Is it a game console with media functionality or is it an iPod/iPhone competitor that just so happens to play games as a secondary function? I know this may come across as insane, but I get the feeling that Nintendo are looking to make the 3DS successor a game playing device first and foremost That means that their hardware decisions will be focused around making the best portable gaming experience possible before any other considerations are made (not to mention that you wouldn't be able to really see the difference at that screen size anyway - hell the majority of content watched on mobile screens are low quality SD videos anyway ) If you're expecting Nintendo to come out with a phone that directly competes against the iPhone and other smartphones on its own turf, I reckon you'll be disappointed... (not to mention that it would be suicide to do so anyway)
canand Posted April 6, 2014 Author Posted April 6, 2014 Does anyone think Nintendo will announce a next gen handheld on a Nintendo Direct or at E3?
Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Does anyone think Nintendo will announce a next gen handheld on a Nintendo Direct or at E3? If you're implying that it's gonna happen this year, then you're dead wrong (3DS still has many years of life left in it - you're probably looking at a 2016-2017 timeframe for its successor) but E3 will likely remain as the venue of choice for grand hardware unvels (though actual announcements of upcoming hardware will still continue to happen several months beforehand, as per usual).
Grazza Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I've got a feeling they're going to announce a "Quality of Life" handheld at E3, but it won't be a successor to the 3DS. It'll probably be very low-quality, graphically, but have pulse/blood pressure monitors, that sort of thing.
liger05 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Well then it calls into question what kind of device their next handheld will be first and foremost. Is it a game console with media functionality or is it an iPod/iPhone competitor that just so happens to play games as a secondary function? I know this may come across as insane, but I get the feeling that Nintendo are looking to make the 3DS successor a game playing device first and foremost That means that their hardware decisions will be focused around making the best portable gaming experience possible before any other considerations are made (not to mention that you wouldn't be able to really see the difference at that screen size anyway - hell the majority of content watched on mobile screens are low quality SD videos anyway ) If you're expecting Nintendo to come out with a phone that directly competes against the iPhone and other smartphones on its own turf, I reckon you'll be disappointed... (not to mention that it would be suicide to do so anyway) Oh it should defiantly be a gaming devise first and in no way does it have to be an ipod competitor. To me things like a decent Web browser, and media capabilities are pretty standard now among handheld devices now. Mobile tech moves so fast that I think for £199 Nintendo should be able to produce a very decent piece of kit.
Serebii Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 OK, a few more thoughts that I didn't have time for yesterday: Dual Screens - I can't criticise dual screens too much (heck, they surely inspired the whole Etrian Odyssey series) and I think it works well enough. However, I do suspect Nintendo will be ditching it. My prediction is that the 3DS will be the last "DS", and that the next handheld will be the start of a new era. No backwards compatibility with previous handhelds, apart from via Virtual Console. Look at how Nintendo has DS running on the Wii U - that's how I think they'll emulate it (and, when they can, the 3DS) going forwards. I disagree. I'd say if anything, Nintendo has proved that they want to make it a standard by trying to shift the concept into the home console space.
Cube Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I do think that the next one will have dual screens, but it won't be a "DS". The product line is way too cluttered to carry on with that name. Time for a triumphant return of the Game Boy.
Pestneb Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I think the secondary screen really works on the DS series. Unlike home consoles, which can be hooked up to any sized tv, a hand held is limited in size by the constraint of pocket size. Even the XL is pushing those limits. In effect the second screen doubles the screen size through a clam shell design. In regards to resolution. I think 480p may be a possibility, more so than 720. Firstly, as has been mentioned, screen size, resolution isn't as pressing and rewarding as in the home console scene, where a 60" screen more or less actually NEEDS 720p minimum. a 6" screen... less so Secondly, looking at previous handhelds, Nintendo don't do big jumps. max resolution per eye on 3ds is something like 400*240 I think? so upping to 480 would already be a big jump... which would mean a larger screen. the 3dsxl already has a small enough battery life span. I don't imagine the standard model having larger screen size than the 3dsxl, for that exact reason. remember the hardware will be more powerful too, requiring more expensive hardware to be power efficient, or a more expensive battery. Nintendo want to keep the price reasonable... I'm assuming the hardware will be comparable to the Wii's level of power, battery life is probably an issue, but unlike Serbii's suggestion Nintendo are making home consoles energy efficient for the benefit of the environment, I suggest it is more to do with the benefit of their handheld hardware (so perhaps yes, handhelds ARE holding back Nintendo's home consoles such as Wii U...). But it will be interesting.. will we get stylus-motes that attach to our fingers? I'm remembering the vitality sensor all of a sudden as well I actually want to play wii-DS sports now.
liger05 Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I think the secondary screen really works on the DS series. Unlike home consoles, which can be hooked up to any sized tv, a hand held is limited in size by the constraint of pocket size. Even the XL is pushing those limits. In effect the second screen doubles the screen size through a clam shell design. In regards to resolution. I think 480p may be a possibility, more so than 720. Firstly, as has been mentioned, screen size, resolution isn't as pressing and rewarding as in the home console scene, where a 60" screen more or less actually NEEDS 720p minimum. a 6" screen... less so Secondly, looking at previous handhelds, Nintendo don't do big jumps. max resolution per eye on 3ds is something like 400*240 I think? so upping to 480 would already be a big jump... which would mean a larger screen. the 3dsxl already has a small enough battery life span. I don't imagine the standard model having larger screen size than the 3dsxl, for that exact reason. remember the hardware will be more powerful too, requiring more expensive hardware to be power efficient, or a more expensive battery. Nintendo want to keep the price reasonable... I'm assuming the hardware will be comparable to the Wii's level of power, battery life is probably an issue, but unlike Serbii's suggestion Nintendo are making home consoles energy efficient for the benefit of the environment, I suggest it is more to do with the benefit of their handheld hardware (so perhaps yes, handhelds ARE holding back Nintendo's home consoles such as Wii U...). But it will be interesting.. will we get stylus-motes that attach to our fingers? I'm remembering the vitality sensor all of a sudden as well I actually want to play wii-DS sports now. Wii level of power? That would mean it's not as powerful as a Vita. No way.
Grazza Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Wii level of power? That would mean it's not as powerful as a Vita. No way. Quite likely, I think. Whilst I'm not sure of the graphical comparison regarding 3DS vs. PSP, the 3DS is lower-res than the older machine (PSP = 480 × 272, 3DS = 800/400 × 240 - not a massive difference, but 3DS is 7 years newer). Nintendo doesn't automatically try to better the competing handheld, unfortunately.
Pestneb Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 3DS = GC DS = N64 GBA = SNES GBC = Nes so yes, it would seem plausible that Nintendo would go for a Wii level of power. Weaker specs require less power, which allows for a weaker battery/longer battery life.
Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) 3DS = GCDS = N64 GBA = SNES GBC = Nes so yes, it would seem plausible that Nintendo would go for a Wii level of power. Weaker specs require less power, which allows for a weaker battery/longer battery life. The 3DS is already Wii levels of power though... And we know that the next handheld is gonna be using the Wii U's hardware architecture, so it'll probably end up being around the same performance as the Wii U, just running in 854 x 480 instead of HD (having an S3D screen might hold it back from quite hitting that same mark though...) I reckon it'll end up using the same CPU as the Wii U (maybe clocked slightly lower at around 1ghz instead of 1.3, but with the same number of cores), but the GPU won't have quite the same grunt (which it wouldn't need if it was only running at the Gamepad's 854 x 480 resolution). Edited April 6, 2014 by Dcubed
Jimbob Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 2016 seems plausable for a new handheld for Nintendo. There is enough life left in the 3DS for at least another year or so in my eyes. Should they ditch the stylus for a new handheld, i don't think so. And the need for 2 screens is fine by me, bring the idea for the WiiU tablet to it.
Serebii Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 The 3DS is already Wii levels of power though... And we know that the next handheld is gonna be using the Wii U's hardware architecture, so it'll probably end up being around the same performance as the Wii U, just running in 854 x 480 instead of HD (having an S3D screen might hold it back from quite hitting that same mark though...) I reckon it'll end up using the same CPU as the Wii U (maybe clocked slightly lower at around 1ghz instead of 1.3, but with the same number of cores), but the GPU won't have quite the same grunt (which it wouldn't need if it was only running at the Gamepad's 854 x 480 resolution). I wouldn't say that. The processor on the 3DS is less than half the power of the Wii's, from what I remember.
Dcubed Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I wouldn't say that. The processor on the 3DS is less than half the power of the Wii's, from what I remember. The CPU is weaker, but the GPU is better than what's in the Wii. It's more powerful in some ways and weaker in others but is generally in the same power bracket.
Pestneb Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 The 3DS is already Wii levels of power though... And we know that the next handheld is gonna be using the Wii U's hardware architecture, so it'll probably end up being around the same performance as the Wii U, just running in 854 x 480 instead of HD (having an S3D screen might hold it back from quite hitting that same mark though...) I reckon it'll end up using the same CPU as the Wii U (maybe clocked slightly lower at around 1ghz instead of 1.3, but with the same number of cores), but the GPU won't have quite the same grunt (which it wouldn't need if it was only running at the Gamepad's 854 x 480 resolution). Is it that powerful? I didn't realise that! My comparison isn't 100%, the handhelds tend to be marginally more powerful than their home console equivalent, plus the fact that the screen resolution is lower should help too... But perhaps Nintendo have been edging towards 1 generation back thanks to Sony's Vita. Your idea of the gamepads resolution holds water, certainly, I don't see them releasing a new handheld that's no more powerful than the current one. If it remains dual screen though, the GPU may still need a bit of "grunt" to out put to two screens.
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