Jonnas Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 At this point I MUST point out that, even in these early days, I think we all know that the Wii U is NOT the Shawshank Redemption of video games. I mean, come on. At best, it's Rocky V. I think Shawshank is the Gamecube in that analogy (A small point, but I really don't think you're in the position to be questioning people's maturity). At this point, neither are you. It takes two to argue, so drop it, you two.
Sheikah Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Except that I'm not calling into question somebody's age, which is in both irrelevant and personal. As long as people stay on the issue of Nintendo's situation then I've nothing to drop, whether it gets heated or not.
Jamba Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 When two people with a bit more perspective than you suggest that you should drop it @Sheikah then you probably should.
Sheikah Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 When two people with a bit more perspective than you suggest that you should drop it @Sheikah then you probably should. Out of interest, why do you think they have more perspective than me? I'm curious.
Jamba Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Out of interest, why do you think they have more perspective than me? I'm curious. That's both massively off-topic and a passive aggressive way of trying to pick a fight with me. I'm trying to do both you and everyone else here a favour. Lighten up mmmmkae
liger05 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Cracking post from Gaf which echoes some of my concerns and puts them across far better than I ever could. Wii u sales are in zombie territory everywhere yet there seems to be very little talk on how Iwata aims to change this. It's like are now just hoping MK does something even though prior to MK the sales are going to be disgraceful. Seems like an acceptance that they royally messed up with the wii u and there is little they can now do to change things around.
daftada Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 If Nintendo want to put some IP on smartphones they could look into bringing their Touch Generations titles like Brain Training, English Training, Cookbook etc. They're already familiar to many of the casual crowd that flocked to smartphones, they'd be relatively easy to port across. Personally, I'd love to see Clubhouse games on my iPhone/iPad.
Rummy Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 HoT and Mokong have hit most of my thoughts on what's come out of this investor's meeting - mostly for me it all seems to be outdated realisations too little and too late. The only positive I really take is that they apparently plan to put some proper focus on the Gamepad - which is something that should have always been the case imo, and the reason why a number of people bought a Wii U in the first place.
Josh64 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 If Nintendo want to put some IP on smartphones they could look into bringing their Touch Generations titles like Brain Training, English Training, Cookbook etc. They're already familiar to many of the casual crowd that flocked to smartphones, they'd be relatively easy to port across. Personally, I'd love to see Clubhouse games on my iPhone/iPad. I agree, there's loads of great stuff they could port to smartphoones. And I know they keep saying 'no Mario' but stuff such as Yoshi's Touch and Go would be the perfect fit, in fact, that game always feels as though it should have been on a smartphone. Anyway, whilst the health thing could be interesting, Nintendo really don't seem to have taken drastic action and just as I suspected, have decided to rely on Mario Kart when it comes to Wii U. I guessed it last week: I'm honestly curious as to if anything will happen at all. I know stuff needs to happen but knowing Nintendo I can't help but think they'll just keep plodding on as they are and claim that "one game can change everything" until Mario Kart and Smash are out, at which point they'll find themselves in the same position this time next year and probably spout the same old "we're learinng, lol" shit that they usually do. It will be an endless cycle until they stumble upon another success, like the original Wii, or just fade into obscurity Considering the position they're in right now, this is really not acceptable. And DS Virtual Console games? Are they have a fucking laugh? I'll just add that to the pile of empty promises, like no software droughts, N64/GBA VC games and Nintendo TVii. It's annoying because I really like the Wii U, but the steps they have taken, or lack of, is a complete piss take. And what's this about utilising the GamePad? Jesus christ, they should have been doing that from the start. The fact that (what I'm assuming to be) the top 3 titles this year, DK, Mario Kart and Smash, won't use the Pad in any way, makes me think this is yet another load of garbage... just like the DS VC. I dunno, maybe we'll see it in 3 years.
Mokong Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Not wanting to re-start the whole "is it possible to have the WiiU without the gamepad" thing again. But I just learned something new. @Serebii you said it shouldn't be done cause it would require "considerable manpower" to "Overhaul the OS" to make it work for bundles that are sold sans Gamepad. You said some apps required the Gamepad to work, which is true, eShop, dispite displaying on the TV can only be controlled with teh GP...but can be controller using just the buttons so already works fine without touch screen. System Settings, while only displays on the GP can also be controller with just the buttons, no touch "needed" Miiverse was a slightly different one as I assumed input was only done through the GP and would therefor require a patch to add an onscreen keyboard and/or USB keyboard. Well I just found out it already has an onscreen keyboard (don't know bout USB Keyboard support, I don't have a working one to test with) I was just playing 3D World (and failing once again on Champion Road) decided to take a break, watch some Netflix/Doctor Who, went to Home Menu noticed Miiverse flashing and opened it using the Pro COntroller which I forgot I was using. Went to make a post then realised I wasn't holding the GP, had an idea and navigated to the text field with teh Pro Controller, pressed A, and low and behold on screen keyboard. It's tricky. The entire OS would have to be recoded due to it, especially in regards to eShop, Miiverse etc. Yeah a patch could do it, but it'd still require a lot of work. So Miiverse is already fully functional without the GP (aside from the drawing of course) Now once again I do love the GamePad, the few games that have used it well I think show great potential, but I am very upset that Nintendo themselves have failed to do anything truely meaningful with it. Iwata saying today that they are now going to focus on making the GP more relevent is ridiculous cause they should have been doing that from before the console launched! Only starting to work on that now means that is a long term goal as they are unlikely to have any full proper retail games made that will show us the true value of the GP for at least a year or 18months? In the interm why not offer a reduced price bundle sans Gamepad and with Pro Controller to try and grow the install base. When those games that will make the GP proper relavent do then come out they can also put it on sale. If people want the game they will have to buy the Pad. Any concerns over "oh people won't know what games need it and don't and such even if Nintendo spell it out on the box", well that didn't stop them from pushing out Motion+ or the Balance Board. Hell the first of these "new GP games" could be sold bought on its own and in a bundle with a GP for those that might have bought a bundle sans GP. Edited January 31, 2014 by Mokong
Cube Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Well I just found out it already has an onscreen keyboard (don't know bout USB Keyboard support, I don't have a working one to test with) USB keyboards work.
Rummy Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Not wanting to re-start the whole "is it possible to have the WiiU without the gamepad" thing again. But I just learned something new. @Serebii you said it shouldn't be done cause it would require "considerable manpower" to "Overhaul the OS" to make it work for bundles that are sold sans Gamepad. You said some apps required the Gamepad to work, which is true, eShop, dispite displaying on the TV can only be controlled with teh GP...but can be controller using just the buttons so already works fine without touch screen. System Settings, while only displays on the GP can also be controller with just the buttons, no touch "needed" Miiverse was a slightly different one as I assumed input was only done through the GP and would therefor require a patch to add an onscreen keyboard and/or USB keyboard. Well I just found out it already has an onscreen keyboard (don't know bout USB Keyboard support, I don't have a working one to test with) I was just playing 3D World (and failing once again on Champion Road) decided to take a break, watch some Netflix/Doctor Who, went to Home Menu noticed Miiverse flashing and opened it using the Pro COntroller which I forgot I was using. Went to make a post then realised I wasn't holding the GP, had an idea and navigated to the text field with teh Pro Controller, pressed A, and low and behold on screen keyboard. So Miiverse is already fully functional without the GP (aside from the drawing of course) Now once again I do love the GamePad, the few games that have used it well I think show great potential, but I am very upset that Nintendo themselves have failed to do anything truely meaningful with it. Iwata saying today that they are now going to focus on making the GP more relevent is ridiculous cause they should have been doing that from before the console launched! Only starting to work on that now means that is a long term goal as they are unlikely to have any full proper retail games made that will show us the true value of the GP for at least a year or 18months? In the interm why not offer a reduced price bundle sans Gamepad and with Pro Controller to try and grow the install base. When those games that will make the GP proper relavent do then come out they can also put it on sale. If people want the game they will have to buy the Pad. Any concerns over "oh people won't know what games need it and don't and such even if Nintendo spell it out on the box", well that didn't stop them from pushing out Motion+ or the Balance Board. Hell the first of these "new GP games" could be sold bought on its own and in a bundle with a GP for those that might have bought a bundle sans GP. But....considerable man power! Look how much you used just to learn that this already happens! Regardless; on the Gamepad argument - they've presumably got a ton of unsold Wii Us no? all with Gamepads, no? So it's an investment already made, right? Dropping the gamepad to drop the price doesn't rectify the then present surplus of Gamepads they'll have? I may have become a little Australian?
Mokong Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Regardless; on the Gamepad argument - they've presumably got a ton of unsold Wii Us no? all with Gamepads, no? So it's an investment already made, right? Dropping the gamepad to drop the price doesn't rectify the then present surplus of Gamepads they'll have? I may have become a little Australian? That's a fair point I guess, didn't think about the current stock they'd have in their warehouses. Still if it helpped them get the console into homes even sans GP, wouldn't that be better than both console and GP bundles gathering dust in warehouses?
dazzybee Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I thought the issue with the gamepad was more changing all the games more than OS. That'd be a bigger job surely!
Rummy Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I thought the issue with the gamepad was more changing all the games more than OS. That'd be a bigger job surely! I'd certainly agree! That's a fair point I guess, didn't think about the current stock they'd have in their warehouses. Still if it helpped them get the console into homes even sans GP, wouldn't that be better than both console and GP bundles gathering dust in warehouses? I guess - but coming back to the issue of loss/money - this does little to recoup that; it's money already spent that they kinda need back. That's why they're going for the 'added value' angle; it brings more in(and also, if done right, does give more to the consumer, albeit at a cost). I imagine they'll be trying to add this value cheaply/still make profit on the content. One thing? More Nintendoland-esque asymmetrical gaming things; released via eShop as a sub-£15 download. WHY they never designed Nintendoland for DLC/expandable content I don't know. Imo the theme park theme makes for the perfect addition of promotional attractions and added content, such a missed trick.
dazzybee Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 One thing? More Nintendoland-esque asymmetrical gaming things; released via eShop as a sub-£15 download. WHY they never designed Nintendoland for DLC/expandable content I don't know. Imo the theme park theme makes for the perfect addition of promotional attractions and added content, such a missed trick. Yes! I was saying this to Dakota the other day. Nintendoland should've been installed on the machine. Maybe 3 free attractions (one from each category) and then additional attractions at a few quid each. Then they could create new attractions for up and coming games (or anything I suppose). It would be amazing, everyone would have it, new do tent, promote other game series etc etc Maybe even 3rd parties (ha) could create attractions or whatever... Just thinking about it frustrates me, Nintendo never try anything ambitious with online! Then what point are you trying to make? I made the point that Nintendo isn't really coming up with features that people want, you argue that they are actually innovative and really good. It's all opinion and preference at the end of the day, but I don't think if they were that groundbreakingly innovative / cornerstone to the industry that Nintendo would be faring so badly right now. I really don't rate Miiverse at all. (A small point, but I really don't think you're in the position to be questioning people's maturity). You're missing my point completely, I don't know how many ways to word it until you understand... Irrespective of the reasons why no one is buying (I think it's the software rather than the ideas), what I'm saying is whether or not many people buy in to the concept, whether you like it, gamers like it, kids like it, whatever it's success etc. I am saying it is very important there is a company TRYING and DOING new things with their hardware and services. The same way it's great developers make new games, even if I and the industry hate them. I think it's important, vital, it happens.
Cube Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 One thing? More Nintendoland-esque asymmetrical gaming things; released via eShop as a sub-£15 download. WHY they never designed Nintendoland for DLC/expandable content I don't know. Imo the theme park theme makes for the perfect addition of promotional attractions and added content, such a missed trick. Speaking of asymmetrical gameplay, where the hell is Pac-Man Vs U?
Mokong Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I thought the issue with the gamepad was more changing all the games more than OS. That'd be a bigger job surely! We were talking hypothetically in a situation if Nintendo ever decided to make a WiiU bundle with the Pro Controller and without the GamePad. As I was saying I don't think it would require a big overhaul to the OS at all since most stuff already works without the gamepad. Miiverse as I found out last night already functions just fine without the Gamepad (if you are using a Pro Comtroller you get an onscreen keyboard or you can use a USB Keyboard as Cube tested) so Gamepad isn't required at all for Miiverse. The only changes I see that would need to be made for the OS would be for the console to be able to recognise when turned on if there is no Gamepad connected it would default the TV screen to the Menu screen (something already possible by pressing X on pro controller or 1 on a Wiimote, but having it auto switch would be needed for any new owners that might buy a bundle sans GP as they'd be unaware they'd need to toggle screens) The menu can be operated with a Pro Controller or Wiimote just fine once the Menu is displayed on the TV screen. Then there's eShop and System Settings. eShop currently only works with teh GP, but it already displays on the TV and can be operated using the Buttons/Sticks on the GP so adding at minimum Pro COtroller support shouldn't be that difficult. Same goes for System Settings, it can be operated with the buttons/sticks on the GP, no need to touch anything on screen. The only extra for that is System Settings currently only displays to the GP screen but I doubt it would be that difficult for them to be able to mirror it to the TV screen which at present doesn't do anything for System Settings except provide explanations for the options. In terms of the OS, I can't think of any other changes that would be needed if they ever were to do a sans Gamepad bundle, and the changes I described above hardly seem like massive changes that would overhaul the OS, in fact seem pretty minor to me. Of course it would take them some work to implement them but they are constantly making patches anyway, saying it would create extra work hardly seems like a good enough reason as to why it couldn't be done. EDIT I just re-read your post I think I might have misread it and you were asking about "changing games" but I'll leave what I just typed above anyway. In terms of games...they don't need to change anything. How many games require the Gamepad to be played? I can think of just 3 (NintendoLand, ZombiU and Deus Ex) and 1 of them (Deus Ex) could be patched to work woth Pro Controller...assuming it doesn't already, it might do, I should check that. All other games work with either Pro COntroller or Wiimote or both already so there's no need to make changes to 99% of games. But again this is all in a "what if" situation but I hardly think the reason Nintendo have decided to not make a sans GP bundle is cause they think they couldn't be bothered to do the work to make eShop and System Settings work without it. Edited January 31, 2014 by Mokong
Sheikah Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I will just have to disagree with you then. I think Sony have done just as much if not more different with their latest console than the Wii U (off screen play is also one of those things).
Mokong Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 WHY they never designed Nintendoland for DLC/expandable content I don't know. Imo the theme park theme makes for the perfect addition of promotional attractions and added content, such a missed trick. So simple yet such a great idea, Nintendo definately missed a trick there!
liger05 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Going back to the presentation I think Nintendo have accepted there isnt anything which is turning this around. They are going to limp along and release games when they can and try to ride it out.
Sheikah Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 We were talking hypothetically in a situation if Nintendo ever decided to make a WiiU bundle with the Pro Controller and without the GamePad. Yeah that was one of the reasons I brought it up (not out of trying to be rude to Serebii) - on the surface, the OS looks to be not too heavily tied to the gamepad. Apart from the second screen functionality it seems like a controller could be substituted for a lot of it.
Jonnas Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I will just have to disagree with you then. I think Sony have done just as much if not more different with their latest console than the Wii U (off screen play is also one of those things). Honestly, if Microsoft was doing things the way Nintendo was doing (leaving Sony as the one doing things differently), I think dazzybee would be making the same point, saying he's glad Sony is there. His point is not about picking sides, it's about respecting both. The same way one could respect Sega's attempts at innovation back in the day, even if you were more pro-Nintendo or Sony (or even if Sega's rash practices hurt them in the long run).
Sheikah Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I know his point, it's just that I don't agree that having done something different is necessarily respect-worthy. In my opinion, in the last 2 generations Nintendo have gone down an 'innovation' path with their hardware that has done long term damage to their image as well as put them in the pretty bad position they are in now. And in really pursuing that 'innovation', I think they've lost sight of who they were and what made them special.
Goron_3 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I still want my Wind Waker themed Zelda expansion pack for Nintendo Land
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