#02 - N-Europe: Let's Talk Games (Super Mario Sunshine)

[Grazza]

Super Mario Sunshine is the game that showed me what that console generation was going to be like - that is to say, very, very good indeed. It was the first game I played on the GameCube, and so was the first time I saw how far Nintendo's hardware had come on since the N64.

 

I loved it before I'd even pressed Start. Miyamoto apparently wanted to make us feel like we were on holiday - well, he succeeded. Super Mario Sunshine transported me to a tropical paradise and genuinely helped me forget any troubles I might have had at the time. Very often I jumped into a zone depending on what mood I was in, whether it was the Caribbean-esque Gelato Beach, the towering Noki Bay or my personal favourite, the Hawaiian-styled Sirena Beach.

 

All this was aided by the superlative GameCube controller, which fitted my hand like a glove. With its built-in rumble and twin analogue sticks, Mario has still never controlled better. Most amazing of all were the analogue triggers, which I actually didn't understand how to use until some way into the game. Discovering I could perform a gentle squirt, a powerful blast or something in between thrilled me far more than motion control ever could.

 

Difficulty level was quite well-judged. With some effort, I managed to get all 120 Shines - some annoying moments, for sure, but I never got as frustrated as in Super Mario Galaxy 2. By the time I was exploring the Pianta's Village, I felt I was truly au fait with the new generation.

 

Overall, I feel Super Mario Sunshine is entirely indicative of the GameCube itself and much of its other software - massively underrated, lovingly crafted and the peak of Nintendo in recent times.

 

95/100 - 3D Mario has never climbed higher, before or since.

[flameboy]

It's weird this should get posted..I had a yearning to play but my copy is stuck in England I decided to acquire it via other means as a stop gap measure....and fallen in love all over again. The single greatest thing about this game is it's colour palette so bright and beautiful you instantly feel like your on holiday!

[nekunando]

I've been wanting to return to Isle Delfino for a long time now as my feelings and memories of the game have become somewhat cloudy over the years..

 

I really enjoyed Super Mario Sunshine when it came out and it was possibly the first game I ever purchased on release I missed some of the moves that were absent, such as the long jump, but enjoyed messing around with FLUDD

 

I will say, though, that it's the only Mario game I can remember that I have never beaten 100% as I just never found any desire to hunt down the blue coins and some of the missions really frustrated me at times, such as the pachinko level

 

Platformers have often been blasted for taking us through the typical forest, snow, ice and desert levels over the years so I admire this game for trying something different in creating a theme for the entire game. Having said that, I personally missed the diversity and have always been a sucker for wintery levels in my games

 

Without playing it again (which I may do soon ) I don't feel like I can given a proper score for Super Mario Sunshine in this post, but my gut feeling is that I won't enjoy it as much now as I did back then.. which is a shame

[S.C.G]

I actually have really fond memories of Super Mario Sunshine even though if you asked me to draw a map of how the general hub layout was I would probably struggle after the first right corner that you take at the start of the plaza.

 

What I do remember though is being able to jump between the rooftops with the aid of the magnificent FLUDD device which was as much fun to use as it was awe-inspiring at the time to be able to control the actual flow of the water using the pressure sensitive analogue triggers! It's this game alone which makes me wonder why on earth Nintendo didn't include pressure sensitive triggers on the Wii U's controllers but I already know the answer plus I don't wish to dig up that old debate but just at the time all I know is that it was mesmerising.

 

Riding on Yoshi was even made more memorable because of the ability to projectile vomit fruit juice, which in writing sounds disgusting but in a Nintendo game it somehow becomes magical, what was also a nice addition I found was that Yoshi automatically ate fruit when you were near it, just like in Super Mario World with the apples - if I remember this correctly - which I found to be a nice throwback plus they obviously earned extra points just for having the popular dinosaur in the game due to him being a taunting extra just out of reach for anyone who properly finished Super Mario 64 back in the day.

 

Cleaning up Isle Delfino was another thing that could only be made fun by Mario but even beyond this it was other things such as the whole place being interconnected, each area could be placed geographically within the resort - if you can recall where all the places were at least unlike me - plus there were many secrets waiting to be uncovered including the blue coins but the main joy came from simply playing one of the most revolutionary Mario games ever made that has long been misunderstood and should be properly enjoyed by all if it is ever granted a re-release by some small miracle.

 

Verdict: Any game which lets you make the main character do a 'seal' impression by repeatedly jumping while belly-sliding deserves a high rating in my books.

 

95/100

[Jonnas]

Just putting this here, from the SS thread, so that it doesn't get misplaced.

 

Not a different thread?

 

My memory if this was the worst mario game ever, still better than 95% of other plat formers loved the non FLUD levels like I imagine most people will say. The art design was my biggest issue, terrible.

 

I do mean to go back to it though as haven't played it since, wonder how it's aged.

 

-----------------------

 

And now, for my opinion on Super Mario Sunshine.

 

	Audio

 

This was my second ever Gamecube game. Super Mario 64 had quickly become one of my favourite games of all time, and I was really looking forward to Sunshine. What I played wasn't exactly what I expected, but I had plenty of fun with it.

 

After that, I would occasionally (re)play a few levels of this, and complete whatever was left, but I never did a full blown, pondered replay. However, the Game Grumps played this quite recently (visiting most of the levels along the way), and I got to re-experience everything indirectly.

 

First things first: the control is marvellous. Mario controls like a dream, FLUDD or not (belly flop, flop, flop!). The FLUDD itself is also incredibly responsive (and a clever use of the analogue triggers). Using it never feels like a chore, even when what you're doing is, literally, the chore of cleaning someone else's crap (belly sliiiiiiiiiide!)

 

The graphics look amazing. I didn't really appreciate them at the time, but I later came to appreciate the subtle cel shading, the good use of colour, the small details in certain levels (like the sandbird's dripping sand) and, most of all, that gorgeous, gorgeous water. I recall developers at the time saying they wanted to do water like Sunshine did, and I have to agree. It looks AND feels great.

 

Those two aspects are at their strongest with the secret levels. They're amazing, most of them, both the ones that use FLUDD and the ones that don't. I already mentioned the sandbird, but remember the pachinko/pinball machine or the one where you had to jump a huge distance using the Turbo? Great stuff.

And confess it, that music has to be the best ever rendition of the Mario theme. That's saying a lot.

 

The normal levels aren't too bad, either. Some fun, interesting missions there (like the one where you're FLUDD-less in a level filled with lava-goop, the Manta Ray boss, the Eel Dentist mission, Blooper Surfing, etc.). Sure, some of them were a tad hard or frustrating, but every platformer has such levels.

 

The summer theme is well made. It goes well with the water mechanics. I like how they still managed to make several levels out of it (Village, Marina Docks, Beach, Theme Park, Hotel, Cultural Ruins Site, Mountain).

 

	Audio

 

There were, however, some odd design choices with this game. The main levels are designed with an open world in mind (much like in Super Mario 64), but each mission is linear, with barely (if any) deviation from the goal they give you (you can't find shines out of order, for example). Maybe this is why the secret levels stick so much more in our mind, since they're so much more straightforward about what they are.

 

At this point, the Super Mario 64 comparison is inevitable. The above is the most significant difference, but there are other aspects that bother SM64 fans, like the lack of level diversity (no snow, no desert, and certainly no level like Tick Tock Clock), or the excessive amount of missions in a given level.

While I was like this back in the day, I now feel like this is an unfair criticism. Sunshine should be judged on its own merits, not on what its predecessor was.

 

And now, with the really bad: Blue Coins. I hated, hated these back in the day. Still do. I'm all for collectibles and stuff, but this is a perfect example on how not to do it. First, many of these were a nightmare to find (you know those dozens of windows at Ricco Harbor? One of them gives you a coin if you spray it. Why? Hell if I know!), which brings us to the second problem, no way of tracking which ones you already have. That last one is not always a problem, but there were 30 effing blue coins per level. Even with a FAQ, it took me forever to find them.

 

Cutscenes! Plot! This game had them. A silly plot, mind you, and all would be fine and dandy (bad voice acting included), but this is a serious issue: you can't skip cutscenes, and they're so boring! So many times I've had someone over who wanted to try Sunshine but gave up before the end of that damn trial.

 

 

My verdict is that this is still a very fun game, oozing with Nintendo magic. All of its flaws seem to fade away when you're swimming in gorgeous water, or spinning around in place, or running those excellent obstacle courses. It's a shame it needs to live in the shadow of Mario 64

 

8.5/10

 

(And now, to read the other posts)

[Wii]

I really liked Super Mario Snshine. I liked pretty much everything about it. Never understood the hate for Fludd. Some of its abilities were cool. Blazing around on the open water was great fun. I didn't like the blue coins, that's one negative I remember and maybe not enough areas to explore.

[nekunando]

I've actually plummeted to a few deaths trying to reach the flagpole or distant platforms in Super Mario 3D World by hitting the right shoulder button to try to get more distance.. only to ground pound into oblivion

 

I couldn't understand why I was, seemingly instinctively, reaching for ZR until I went to play Super Mario Sunshine the other day and realised that it was because of FLUDD's ability to hover with R on the GC controller that my memory seems to have connected with getting further distance on my jumps

 

It's a strange thing to have held onto for a decade, but I assume it is a symptom of finally playing another 3D Mario adventure, on a home console, with a traditional controller..

[Fused King]

FIRST POST UPDATED!

 

Average Score: 89/100

 

I guess this reflects people's comments of the game despite not everyone giving a grade.

 

Memorable Quotes:

 

I hope this game gets HD treatment so people realise that it's a fantastic game, albeit not the successor to SM64 that some were hoping.

This is a game that I found myself terrible disappointed in when I first played it when it came out, but on subsequent playthroughs have come to appreciate it much moreso.

Some black spots on the Banana don't stop it from tasting great otherwise

I fucking adore this game. The naysayers need to back off or I'll squirt them right in the face with my darling FLUDD

Younger me was also seriously impressed with the cutscenes and voice acting, but I know I'll loathe it if I go back and replay the game now.

People moan about 'gimmicks' like the Fludd but then also moan about Mario games being too silmilar. Mario Sunshine was about as far a departure from the usual Mario platformer as it gets.

A happy evolution if not a revolution in Mario.

The voice acting was absolutely terrible for the game. A lot of people use this as an excuse as to why Mario doesn't need a story or voice actors. Personally, I think it would be fine if they wrote a decent story and got some decent voice actors to flesh out the characters. Ratchet and Clank & Jak and Daxter managed to pull it off, so i'm sure Mario could if they actually tried.

Overall, I feel Super Mario Sunshine is entirely indicative of the GameCube itself and much of its other software - massively underrated, lovingly crafted and the peak of Nintendo in recent times.

 

3D Mario has never climbed higher, before or since.

I

Platformers have often been blasted for taking us through the typical forest, snow, ice and desert levels over the years so I admire this game for trying something different in creating a theme for the entire game. Having said that, I personally missed the diversity and have always been a sucker for wintery levels in my games

Riding on Yoshi was even made more memorable because of the ability to projectile vomit fruit juice, which in writing sounds disgusting but in a Nintendo game it somehow becomes magical.

 

Verdict: Any game which lets you make the main character do a 'seal' impression by repeatedly jumping while belly-sliding deserves a high rating in my books.

Just putting this here, from the SS thread, so that it doesn't get misplaced.

 

 

 

-----------------------

 

And now, for my opinion on Super Mario Sunshine.

 

	Audio

 

This was my second ever Gamecube game. Super Mario 64 had quickly become one of my favourite games of all time, and I was really looking forward to Sunshine. What I played wasn't exactly what I expected, but I had plenty of fun with it.

 

After that, I would occasionally (re)play a few levels of this, and complete whatever was left, but I never did a full blown, pondered replay. However, the Game Grumps played this quite recently (visiting most of the levels along the way), and I got to re-experience everything indirectly.

 

First things first: the control is marvellous. Mario controls like a dream, FLUDD or not (belly flop, flop, flop!). The FLUDD itself is also incredibly responsive (and a clever use of the analogue triggers). Using it never feels like a chore, even when what you're doing is, literally, the chore of cleaning someone else's crap (belly sliiiiiiiiiide!)

 

The graphics look amazing. I didn't really appreciate them at the time, but I later came to appreciate the subtle cel shading, the good use of colour, the small details in certain levels (like the sandbird's dripping sand) and, most of all, that gorgeous, gorgeous water. I recall developers at the time saying they wanted to do water like Sunshine did, and I have to agree. It looks AND feels great.

 

Those two aspects are at their strongest with the secret levels. They're amazing, most of them, both the ones that use FLUDD and the ones that don't. I already mentioned the sandbird, but remember the pachinko/pinball machine or the one where you had to jump a huge distance using the Turbo? Great stuff.

And confess it, that music has to be the best ever rendition of the Mario theme. That's saying a lot.

 

The normal levels aren't too bad, either. Some fun, interesting missions there (like the one where you're FLUDD-less in a level filled with lava-goop, the Manta Ray boss, the Eel Dentist mission, Blooper Surfing, etc.). Sure, some of them were a tad hard or frustrating, but every platformer has such levels.

 

The summer theme is well made. It goes well with the water mechanics. I like how they still managed to make several levels out of it (Village, Marina Docks, Beach, Theme Park, Hotel, Cultural Ruins Site, Mountain).

 

	Audio

 

There were, however, some odd design choices with this game. The main levels are designed with an open world in mind (much like in Super Mario 64), but each mission is linear, with barely (if any) deviation from the goal they give you (you can't find shines out of order, for example). Maybe this is why the secret levels stick so much more in our mind, since they're so much more straightforward about what they are.

 

At this point, the Super Mario 64 comparison is inevitable. The above is the most significant difference, but there are other aspects that bother SM64 fans, like the lack of level diversity (no snow, no desert, and certainly no level like Tick Tock Clock), or the excessive amount of missions in a given level.

While I was like this back in the day, I now feel like this is an unfair criticism. Sunshine should be judged on its own merits, not on what its predecessor was.

 

And now, with the really bad: Blue Coins. I hated, hated these back in the day. Still do. I'm all for collectibles and stuff, but this is a perfect example on how not to do it. First, many of these were a nightmare to find (you know those dozens of windows at Ricco Harbor? One of them gives you a coin if you spray it. Why? Hell if I know!), which brings us to the second problem, no way of tracking which ones you already have. That last one is not always a problem, but there were 30 effing blue coins per level. Even with a FAQ, it took me forever to find them.

 

Cutscenes! Plot! This game had them. A silly plot, mind you, and all would be fine and dandy (bad voice acting included), but this is a serious issue: you can't skip cutscenes, and they're so boring! So many times I've had someone over who wanted to try Sunshine but gave up before the end of that damn trial.

 

 

My verdict is that this is still a very fun game, oozing with Nintendo magic. All of its flaws seem to fade away when you're swimming in gorgeous water, or spinning around in place, or running those excellent obstacle courses. It's a shame it needs to live in the shadow of Mario 64

 

8.5/10

 

(And now, to read the other posts)

 

Most people seemed to agree that the blue coins and the story/voice acting were the low points of the game, along with certain stages such as the Delfino Hotel.

I have to say though, @Jonnas, your post, along with some others', has really got me hoping that we'll get an HD remake of this on the WiiU eShop.

If this takes too long, however, I will most certainly be picking it up and play it with those perfect Cube Controller Shoulder Buttons

 

Appreciate the input fellas, and I would like to ask a mod if it were at all possible to add these threads to an archive of some sort and adding #01 - #02 to the titles of the previous N:LTG. It would be neat if N-Europe has an archive of their visions on countless games and I promise I will keep this series going!

 

Onwards to the next thread!

 

[tapedeck]

Bit late but sure that's ok.

I've been playing this lately as have bought a few GC games as I sold my console and games years ago when the Wii came out.

I'm onto the port level. It's still a marmite game in the series to me. I really enjoy it when Mario has the FLUDD but without it he's really clippity cloppity and almost 'too sensitive' to control. That's what makes the block bonus worlds so hard too.

I remember this being a flaw when I played it at launch and I never thought it controlled as well as Mario64, which is strange considering it was built on a foundation. Might be just me though...

As others have mentioned, the blue coins irked. I didn't like the new swimming controls over Mario64’s and the way you had to get a specific star 90% of the time was a backward step over the freedom in 64.

 

The EDGE review at the time said it was the second best platformer of all time. I think nintendo have bested it in subsequent outings but it still remains a brilliant platformer. The FLUDD adds a variety to the play and the water and atmosphere in general is lovely. I remember Miyamoto saying Mario would be more mature on the GC. This was definitely achieved via the setting of the game having character - a more 'real world' as opposed to the Mushroom Kingdom/outer space etc. the way the world was connected really made Isle Dolphino have character. Unfortunately I think the setting somewhat limited the games scope. I'm glad Nintendo added the various bonus sections for variety sake - and I'm glad they went back to the variety model in Galaxy/3D world seen in Mario64.

 

A great curio in the Mario series. One where you really felt the winds of change blowing through Nintendo. They gave Mario a 'contraption' a real-world setting and for that it will always be a fascinating entry in the series.

 

If we're giving ratings. I'd give the game 8/10 shine gets.

Edited January 27, 2014 by tapedeck

[Retro_Link]

Just for old times sake...

 

 

 

I wasn't really a fan of the setting in Super Mario Sunshine, but it's better than this at least. Seeing Mario running around an even more suburbia type of environment gives me a bit of a Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 vibe :p

[Rummy]

Late to the party on this one(no way I can keep up with the whole forums and this LTG weekly!) but here goes anyway.

 

Now it's, what, 12 years(?!!?) since this bad boy was released and I won't have played it since then neither, as I only gave it the once through - so be mindful this is a dated memory of a review!

 

Anticipation was through the roof - THE sequel to the revolutionary Super Mario 64! To start with, that was a big anticipation, and Sunshine started off with a giddy little feeling for me. It was bright and vibrant, with colour everywhere(especially in some of the paint mechanic) and it had some fantastic tunage for the sunshine vibe.

 

Going on with it though, it became clear this wasn’t quite SM64 though a worthy successor. The stages were fairly well crafted, but my oft-complained-about-linearity first crept in here. You could only Shine Get the one you were supposed to be getting – no accidental findage of another. Except arguably via blue coins. Bloody blue coins.

 

Why?! Why did they think blue coins were a good idea? Iirc it was collect 10 blue coins, buy a shine from a guy right? It was a cheap way to long out the game with weak content – and I never felt compelled to find them all. NOT finding them though kinda still niggled at me, it was too much and constantly sat at the back of my mind but not in a good way that made me want to do it.

 

Another criticism would be that of the story – wasn’t it baby bowser thinking Peach was his mama or something? I rmemeber thinking as a final boss it was a bit pants too. I remember thinking some story bits were a bit….weird, really. That and fludd all felt a bit weak, even though the gameplay itself was fairly good.

 

Good things that stand out in memory though are, as mentioned, the visuals and audio, in addition to fairly nicely crafted stages. Not all were perfect, but I felt it was pretty good on average. Also standing out in my mind were the little mini-puzzle-platform shines where you went to a more linear sort of world and had to get through it to the shine. It’s a nod to old school Mario, but with some real challenge. THEN once you’ve done it you have to do it again against a clock….and get 8 red coins too iirc? Man, THAT was hard. However it was so frustratingly hard that it was actually really quite satisfying finally doing it – and it had a very ‘one more go’ sort of nature which was good.

 

 

Final verdict: Shine got! A super summery successor albeit with a chance of rain. 8/10.

[Retro_Link]

Yep Bowser Jnr (wearing somewhat of a bib) thinking Peach was his 'Mumma' and then interrupting Bowser in his bath are definitely 3D Mario low points IMO :p

 

Oh and Bowsers awkward Father Son chat where he has to explain to 'Junior' that Peach isn't his Mum, which he knew anyway. lol, oh dear.

 

That's ma Boy!

[Fused King]

Yep Bowser Jnr (wearing somewhat of a bib) thinking Peach was his 'Mumma' and then interrupting Bowser in his bath are definitely 3D Mario low points IMO :p

 

Oh and Bowsers awkward Father Son chat where he has to explain to 'Junior' that Peach isn't his Mum, which he knew anyway. lol, oh dear.

 

That's ma Boy!

 

Oh man, I want this game badly now

[Jonnas]

Bowser bonding with his son was funny, I thought That, and Peach just chilling on a rubber ducky while scalding hot bathing water stormed around her.

[Captain Falcon]

I wrote most of this a while back but never did get round to finishing it. Seeing this thread, howver, inspired me to get back to it - so thank you Mr F - but if it appears slightly disjointed, you'll know why.

 

 

 

Six years is a long time and it’s an even longer time in videogames. What was once fresh, new and exciting can be become stale, over familiar and simply worn out. Unique ideas are copied so blatantly, and repeatedly, that whilst it ensures the original stands out more prominently, all eyes are on the inevitable sequel to set the standard once again. Legacy. Not only the hallmark of a quality title, it is also the biggest foe any follow up could possibly dare face. Six years is a long to wait for a sequel and you’d be forgiven for having more than a little in terms of anticipation for the title.

 

And this is Nintendo’s offering – Super Mario Sunshine. Sticking very closely to the formula laid out by Super Mario 64, this does not have the luxury of being different on the scale that distinguished Majora’s Mask from Ocarina of Time – as the first proper Mario game for the console, it can’t afford to have it. There is a central hub, as ever, and a host of worlds that can be accessed from this with more opening up as you progress. It’s nothing new but it makes finding the next set of levels a much easier task and a map that can be brought up further aid this.

 

Familiar in style it may be but familiar in setting, not so much. Gone are the castle walls that played host to his first 3D outing. Taking place on an island resort, it’s made clear from the very beginning that this is no holiday. Worlds are based on various attractions around the retreat such as beaches and err… more beaches.

 

Taking the game out of the Mushroom Kingdom to inject variety proves a relatively pointless exercise. The only thing consistent about it from game to game is its ability to provide whatever backdrop Nintendo needed it to. It was never short on offering the player something new to look at and explore. This change in location proves positively stifling with some worlds being too similar and others fairly unremarkable. As impressive a level as Noki Bay is, it only serves to highlight the issue further and when added to the fact there are so few worlds compared to 64, it’s even more apparent.

 

Mario controls almost as he did in his last game only this time, his movement is a lot tighter to the point it’s almost twitchy. On the whole, that’s a good thing considered some of the tasks you’ll be asked to complete. The difficulty is often lessened, however, by the introduction of the FLUDD gadget. This device allows Mario to expel water in a variety of direction, depending on the attachment, for the purposes of washing away paint/sludge, suspending him in mid-air, or propelling him either forward or upward at great speed.

 

Whilst each function offers a degree of novelty, it disappears quicker than one would hope and it’s not enough to sustain the adventure. This is made most apparent in the “void” levels that see Mario robbed of his crutch and forced to rely solely on the techniques he is most famous for. The variety and challenge is at welcome odds with much of the game where repetition is a factor and curious, one-shot, ideas are let down by suspicious physics or simply not fun. The game’s finale is also something of a let-down and proves than you need more than a gargantuan sized foe to generate spectacle and excitement.

 

The new hardware brings with it some obvious enhancement to the presentation as the graphics are lovely and the music is of much higher quality technically though only a handful of the tunes are remarkable enough to sit in memory despite all riffing on the same theme. The analogue shoulder buttons also bring a level of control that would be impossible on the older hardware.

 

When faced with the end credits, it’s difficult to shake the sense that this game has been forced out the door before it was ready. The Nintendo 64 did not release until Super Mario 64 was finished and was all it could be – something that benefitted both the game and its host hardware. With the GameCube already on store shelves and missing its mascot, it’s understandable why there was a need to get this game out on time. Nintendo’s stance with regards to release dates has always been when the game was finished, regardless of what was happening in the retail space and yet this under baked release shows the dangers of deviating from the strategy – the blue coin hunt being the a throwback to the darkest days of the prior generations’ “collectathon” style game design by a studio that knows far better. It’s much easier to forgive those who have skim read the rule book on acceptable design when they miss a few things – forgiving those who wrote it on the other hand proves a much trickier task.

 

That’s not to say this is a bad game, far from it. The underlying structure is as sound as ever and when it’s good, it matches its forbearer. The problem is that it never really excels it and when it attempts to deviate from the path, it quickly finds itself adrift at sea.