#01 - N-Europe: Let's Talk Games (Skyward Sword)

[Sheikah]

At the time I didn't mind this game too much, but looking back...

 

Two big problems for me were motion controls and the NPCs/town. The town was pretty barren, and I don't remember any of the NPCs. This is a complete contrast to Majora's mask, which had a world which felt alive on account of good characters with engrossing backstories and quests tied to them.

 

The motion controls were incredibly unwelcome. It was like a continuously surfacing simple puzzle reminiscent of a 'match the shape to the correct hole' baby toy. Except instead of a shape, you were looking for blatant gaps to deduce which direction to swing your arm. It wasn't really fun, and it felt like what you needed to do was so obvious that it never felt rewarding. And it was more effort and less precise than using buttons.

 

The game was also a continuation of a 'let's put a weird way of getting around' concept that seemed to have triggered with the Wind Waker and has since been stuck to since. Flying didn't really feel all that great (flying always feels a little cheap and easy to me).

[Shorty]

Funnily enough, this game didn't really approach any of the issues I had with Twilight Princess, or bring anything that I had wanted to see in a Zelda game for years, such as a vibrant, believable, living overworld. It also had its fair share of immensely irritating features, repetitive bosses, Fi, or basic UI irritations like being told about a pickup a million times or being warned about my battery being low.

 

And yet somehow, I absolutely loved it. Everything it did wrong was easy to ignore because the world looked wonderful, the gameplay was so much fun. I even loved the controls. Whilst the overworld was mostly weak and the lower worlds 99% devoid of NPCs, Skyloft itself was fantastic. It actually felt lived in, unlike most Zelda towns. Everybody had a home and a life and you really felt like Link belonged there. I loved the story too, especially Zelda's own part in it, and some of the reveals.

[lostmario]

Never understood the hate for this, like Shorty above, I absolutely loved it and was gutted when it ended.

 

Motion controls worked perfect for me with the graphics, story, music & gameplay, all being great.

 

Coming off completing Ocarina of Time on the 3DS a few months before, I enjoyed playing and completing this just as much.

[Retro_Link]

That's so the right voice for Ghirahim! :p

[Fused King]

All in good time @Jonnas, all in good time.

[Mandalore]

It never really captured me like other games in the series. I think I'm quite far through but just lost interest, I'll probably go back and finish it off eventually.

 

I generally dislike motion controls. I could tolerate them in this most of the time, but those Ghirahim fights were possibly the most horrible Nintendo thing I've ever experienced.

[Fused King]

Right, wonderful comments so far, but let us keep pushing the boundaries of discussion on videogames

 

What was up with this?

 

[Retro_Link]

Still a better water species than...

 

 

:p

[Rummy]

Top idea, @Fused King! Due to this being an at work post, it'll probs be disjointed as I attend to it sporadically.

 

Like many others, I would have to say thinking about it now and trying to post in this thread - the game was somewhat forgettable. What I do remember - the brilliant vibrance of it, memorable art style/effects, very bright and cool. Interesting attempts with motion controls, some nice items and cool bosses(some not so cool, too). I definitely understand what people say about not neccessarily 'getting' the motion controls - I felt like I was managing, getting by, but not neccessarily having it down 100% even after the very end. Still having said that there was some cool uses of it.

Zelda - awesome characterisation from the get go, felt actually vested in her. Dissappointed they damsel'd her though, was hopeful that you might actually quest together, or you might save her sooner or something after all that workup in the beginning. The item upgrade system, which I forgot about until making my next point, was actually quite a cool idea that I enjoyed(if only it didn't tell you about everything all the time).

 

The bad - lots, probably.

I remember feeling that it lacked the sense of exploration Zelda should have; the three areas were very much 'three areas' seperate and distinct, with particular things to do and not a great amount of exploration. Batreux's quests and collectibles(bug net woo!) kept things a bit interesting in that respect though. I thought, similar to Twilight Princess but on a lesser scale, that the game was rather large but without much in it, or what there was wasn't all that wowing. Skyloft was lovely, and I guess that's good given it was sort of the hub of the game, but I would have liked a bit more of that elsewhere, and a bit more from it within.

Final boss/demise, iono. I felt the story fell a bit flatter towards the end, like they went with this idea of legend and curse blahblah then didn't know how to quite wrap it up without Gannondorf. Fi, as already stated muchly, was rather annoying. They really rinsed the areas out, which is good in some ways as they have to make it different each time, but in other ways makes it feel a bit repetative. I've no urge, and probably no likelihood, of playing it again.

 

The good-some, I think? NPCs, there was some good NPC characterisation(the fetch robot who loved Fi and not you springs to mind, item check girl, Ghirahim, Groose, lots!). The visual style, as said. Sidequests and collectibles helped for something to break things up. Motion controls, whilst I felt a bit at odds all the way, DID work well in some places, did some fun things.

 

 

All in all - a fun and enjoyable title with minor niggles. The biggest being that you might struggle to remember it in a few years, especially living in the shadow of its namesake. 7/10.

[pratty]

I enjoyed the game a lot.

 

I remember befor the game was released Nintendo had said the game was going to focus on new ways to play, rather than going for epic scrawling landscapes to explore, so I was prepared for that. Though with that in mind I found the world be be more open than I expected, I was expecting short levels and or small dungeons, maybe even the overworld replaced with a map menu like No More Heroes 2. Still I found the sky area to be disappointingly empty, it made the experince feel a bit more streamlined which I knew it would be but I still prefer a bit more exploration. Not a game breaker for me though.

 

Controls weren't an issue at all. I really liked them, and I think it will be a step back to abandon them. Even if they're just a one off though I think it was a sucessful experiment and offered a genuinely new experience.

 

It's interesting to see people say that they didn't like the new approaches and things Skyward Sword did differently to other games in the seires. That's fair enough, but people also often remark that the Zelda gaems are too simmilar, yet when they change it up it's usually the very differences that people take issue with, differences which apparently don't exist, yet eveidently do.

 

If nothing else surely with Skyward Sword we can put to bed the myth that all Zelda games are the same, sure they share simialrities and certain formulae, that's because they are games in the same series after all, but Skyward Sword is substantinally different to A Link To the Past, Majoras Mask, Windwaker, Four Swords Adventures, Phantom Hourglass, to name just a few. The idea some have that once you played one Zelda game you've played them all is a gross generalisation of the series in my opinion.

[Ealdst]

I have mixed opinions on this one, during the journey I was mostly in love with it (in fact I put it at number 2 in my list when the n-europe top Wii games was compiled) but whenever I look back on it I don't seem to remember it so fondly.

 

To start with the more negative things, as many have said the controls and the lack of a huge explorable world! On the controls side I wouldn't say I hated them, for the most part I liked the idea but found some things more resonsive than others - my main problem always seemed to be when needing to execute diagonal slashes it seemed quite hit and miss - however I've not had a problem with the exact same controls in the Zelda Nintendoland games so I'm not against them making a return if they can be made more reliable. I did also feel that things like the beetle did not need to be motion controlled, an option to set this to the analogue stick would have been nice. Also on a positive note, the ability to choose whether you wanted to roll or throw a bomb was great.

 

As far as the game world is concerned, I was ok with the flying but I would have preferred a Hyrule field hub. I've often seen complaints about the sky feeling empty with not a lot to do, and to me this is just the nature of the sky theme. Hyrule field in Ocarina of Time doesn't serve much purpose beyond being the hub for all other areas of the game, but because it has various geographical features it gives the player more to do, if even just to make a slight detour to get from one side of a river to the other, or because you see an interesting looking area in the distance and want to check it out. When flying in Skyward Sword I always found myself taking the straightest route between where I started and where I wanted to be and can't remember ever having something catch my eye enough for me to detour and check it out.

 

The only other thing I didn't like were the Silent Realm sections, but I don't think I've seen anyone else ever mention a dislike for these so I think this is unique to me! Personally I found these very annoying and actually dreaded doing them, and are the single thing that has stopped me replaying the game so far (well that and all the other games I need to play through ).

 

So now for some positives, the art style was beautiful and I would have no objections to the series continuing with this kind of look.

The upgrade system was a welcome change, although I do remember some tedious moments in Lanayru Desert waiting for tumble weed to spawn!

Ghirahim and Groose, need I say more?

Some great puzzles, specifically the timeshift stones come to mind.

 

Overall, although I have focussed more on the negative in this post I still think this game is very enjoyable, but I kind of see it as a test run for future instalments - I would be a little disappointed if some of the newer mechanics didn't carry over the the next console Zelda - things like the combat being refined and the upgrade system expanded upon.

 

Final Score: 80/100

Edited January 19, 2014 by Ealdst
Forgot to add a score in my original post.

[Grazza]

The only other thing I didn't like were the Silent Realm sections, but I don't think I've seen anyone else ever mention a dislike for these so I think this is unique to me! Personally I found these very annoying and actually dreaded doing them, and are the single thing that has stopped me replaying the game so far (well that and all the other games I need to play through ).

 

They were one of my least favourite bits too, it's just that I forgot what they were called and referred to them as "Trials". They are one of things I think of most when I say the game is like a series of scenes set up for you to play through.

[Retro_Link]

Tbh I don't really feel the sky overworld has a great deal less to explore than the fields in OOT, MM or TP... the difference I guess is you feel more connected with it because you're grounded on it and because other places lead directly off of it and you can ride into them, but other than that it's just a few holes in the ground and rocks to bomb, not really any different than what you have in the Sky.

 

The sky had quite a similar setup to Wind Waker, in that the main 'temple' islands were the equivalent of the holes you skydived down through, both had some interesting puzzle like islands where you'd find things or do secondary tasks, and then the rest were just empty rocks really.

 

I'd agree with those who have said Skyloft has the most homely feeling of any of the Zelda's. Everyone had a home they went home to and everyone had someone they'd do during the day and I loved that about the place. I enjoyed exploring it and finding it's little secrets. The school, the dorms, and all your classmates etc... I thought were brilliant. How getting up in the night felt like sneaking out to go on an adventure.

 

Lon Lon Ranch gives Ocarina of Times over world an advantage because it's a very integral part of the story. I think the pumpkin bar was fun but yeah it didn't really serve much of a purpose. Had you been able to fly at night it could have become a very important outpost. I did like it's atmosphere though.

[Ealdst]

I'd agree with those who have said Skyloft has the most homely feeling of any of the Zelda's. Everyone had a home they went home to and everyone had someone they'd do during the day and I loved that about the place.

 

And people say Nintendo only make kids games.... :p

[Retro_Link]

LOL... Something! Everyone had someTHING they'd do during the day! :p

 

Although who knows with these two...

 

 

Edited January 16, 2014 by Retro_Link

[Ealdst]

Hehe, I did mean to mention Skyloft itself in my post (not that I didn't ramble on enough as it was), I agree it was a highlight. I particularly liked the item check girl, as it genuinely felt like you were getting her to warm to you rather than her saying the same thing constantly until you triggered plot point x to make her say something else.

 

Also on the overworld subject, that is pretty much what I was trying to say! I feel that there is an illusion of there being more to the world than there actually is in OoT etc just by as you say being grounded in the world, I have just re-read my paragraph on this and I really did not explain my point very well!

[Retro_Link]

I think you explained it well. Yeah that was the problem with the sky, it didn't offer you any choices... 'shall I go over the bridge, or go through the river... shall follow the path for a change, or shortcut over the hill'. Although where possible in OOT for example I think you would end up trying to take the most direct route/straightline, you would still have a couple of objects to navigate around on the way. Warping later in the game also shook locations up in the second half.

 

The hurricans acted as distractions to navigate around but were pretty badly implemented/annoyances. They could at least of had some rock formations poking above the clouds to play around with. Also they really should have had a few more other friendlies and enemies about the sky.

 

Hopefully the power of the Wii U means we might be able to see land, sea and sky all interconnected in the next Zelda? with nothing to stop you taking off from the land on the back of your bird/dragon/eagle/Kaepora Gaebora, climbing vertically and then nose diving down over the ocean, creating a wake behind you fly low above the surface.

 

Give us land, an ocean, some islands and a Skyloft to revisit all in one, with a horse, a boat to rent and an animal to get about the sky

Edited January 15, 2014 by Retro_Link

[Fused King]

I'd agree with those who have said Skyloft has the most homely feeling of any of the Zelda's. Everyone had a home they went home to and everyone had someone they'd do during the day and I loved that about the place. I enjoyed exploring it and finding it's little secrets. The school, the dorms, and all your classmates etc... I thought were brilliant. How getting up in the night felt like sneaking out to go on an adventure.

 

 

Lon Lon Ranch gives Ocarina of Times over world an advantage because it's a very integral part of the story. I think the pumpkin bar was fun but yeah it didn't really serve much of a purpose. Had you been able to fly at night it could have become a very important outpost. I did like it's atmosphere though.

 

Completely forgot about this. I found this to be such a shame because I would've loved to check out the colour scheme and the sun setting in this marvelous artstyle.

 

======================================================

 

So we are entering massive spoiler territory here, so I'll just spoiler-tag this for those who haven't finished the game:

 

So what do people think of the massive build up to Demise?

 

Fighting off hordes of these Moblins/Goblins (not sure:laughing:) then finally reaching...

 

...Ghirahim and his many forms which I personally thought were freaking awesome.

Discovering that he was the sword of Demise just like Fi is your sword was a brilliant twist.

 

Then you have Demise and his badassery. And of course him explaining the curse when you defeat him.

 

It would be interesting if in a future Zelda game they would actually be aware of this curse and try to break it opening up a new 'timeline' so to speak in which the enemies and such cannot be related back to Demise's curse.

 

 

 

Will we ever see more Zelda games in which Hyrule isn't the main area/focus of the plot?

Will we ever see a Zelda game in which Hyrule is only present as a fallen ruin and the Royal family nothing but ghosts. And no I don't mean like in WindWaker, because that game was all about discovering Hyrule and its legacy.

 

Let us have another world like Termina only without the well-known races. Heh, in Skyward Sword they did the opposite sort of. And whilst Skyward Sword was all pre-Hyrule, we all knew that is was there to set up the Hyrule we've come to know and love, for better or for worse (imagine, Fi dwells in the Master Sword in every Zelda game:blank:).

Edited January 16, 2014 by Fused King
none

[Fused King]

 

Well, looks like this thread got pushed to the side a li'l bit in light of Iwata's recent outings, which is understandable because it's an extremely interesting period for NINTENDO.

 

Anyway, I'd like to stress that aside from giving your impressions on the game or on what you remember of it, this thread is also there to get a bit of a discussion going regarding certain aspects of the game.

That's why I asked people about the ending in my latest post, but sadly it got added to it as an edit and I guess nobody saw it.

 

As Jonnas has said, I haven't put my impressions + grade + short sentence up yet so here it goes:

 

The first thing I recall when thinking about Skyward Sword is me and a buddy o' mine meeting up and me asking him what he thought of the game.

 

He lowered his head, shook it in disappointment and sighed.

 

This, we both thought, was surely not the Zelda we were thinking we would get considering Aonuma's quotes about the game.

 

Why the hell was the sky over world so depressingly empty?

Why on earth was the game so incredibly linear?

Why was the music soooo not memorable?

 

We were rather disappointed.

 

Time has past since then, and one of the unique properties of the Zelda series is that you get to look at them differently over time (especially when a new Zelda comes out, though that hasn't happened yet). Skyward Sword is no exception.

 

Now, I look back fondly on certain aspects of the game.

 

*Put me in camp 'loving Motion Control', because I thought it worked pretty damn sweet in Skyward Sword. Hitting stuff got that extra oompf thanks to Wii Motion+ and it felt quite satisfying.

*The art style was truly eye candy and made for some of the most beautiful environments in a Zelda game I've ever seen.

*Characters that oozed personality with Ghirahim being the pinnacle. I thought Zant was fucked up, but damn this guy was a theatrical treat to watch.

*Some really, REALLY great dungeons and enemies such as the obvious Koloktos and the time shifting sea area.

*The Ancient Cistern and the Buddhist story behind it. If you haven't looked this up yet you seriously should.

 

And then there are a good handful of aspects that I thought to be rather dull:

 

*Fi. The Worst ever. I just couldn't bring myself to love her because of the way she talked and acted. Put there simply to annoy you with her talk of percentages. REALLY! Talk of percentages in a Zelda game? Would've thought they'd build some sort of stock exchange mini game around her at the very least...

*A handful of incredibly beautiful music could not stand up against the amount of tracks that just did nothing for me. This was more of a 'atmospheric' Zelda game considering music than it was a Zelda of memorable tunes. Just see one of my earlier posts of Link and Fi playing the harp and singing respectively...

*The linearity of it all. Thinking about the game now, and this goes for Twilight Princess as well to an extent, it really didn't feel like a game that had much open exploring in it. It was one of those games in which you had to go from A to B to C to D AND you were able to get pretty much all the collectibles and such during the journey. Sure you had to go back to certain areas from time to time, but it's not as if you would discover anything worthwhile...

 

 

Then you have the dynamic between Link and Zelda which I thought was done in a pretty unique way once again and seeing Kaepora Gaebora in human form was also nice to see. The new races were also really well done I thought, except for those strange jellyfish which didn't do it for me.

 

 

In conclusion I'd say that Skyward Sword brought some good and it brought some bad, with the good outweighing the bad by somewhat. This means the game ends up getting a 70/100 for me and I shall bestow upon it the quote:

 

'This one is in desperate need of a replay'

 

-------------------

 

Tomorrow evening I shall put the average score for this game in the OP, add some quotes from you guys, and also post the new game we will get to share impressions on and of course discuss.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Fused King

[Jonnas]

This thread is making me want to play SS all over again

 

So what do people think of the massive build up to Demise?

 

 

Fighting off hordes of these Moblins/Goblins (not sure:laughing:) then finally reaching...

 

 

...Ghirahim and his many forms which I personally thought were freaking awesome.

Discovering that he was the sword of Demise just like Fi is your sword was a brilliant twist.

 

 

Then you have Demise and his badassery. And of course him explaining the curse when you defeat him.

 

It would be interesting if in a future Zelda game they would actually be aware of this curse and try to break it opening up a new 'timeline' so to speak in which the enemies and such cannot be related back to Demise's curse.

 

 

 

Good thing you brought this up. I loved all of that.

 

The Bokoblin Horde was great. I love how each group of Bokoblins actually faces you with a different strategy, I love how every single one of the hornblowers runs away from you to gain time, I love that you can use everything you have to mow through them. Makes you feel invincible, and it puts you in a true state of urgency, because you already know exactly how far the path ahead of you is.

 

(On a side note, I find it elegant game design, how much mileage and segments they got out of that one location, that spiral hole)

 

Ghirahim's reveal (being Demise's sword) was amazing. Everything suddenly clicks: he's Fi's evil counterpart. She's dull, robotic, emotionless, orderly and female-looking. He's male-looking, overly emotional, flamboyant, chaotic and interesting (), it's perfect!

 

The battle with him was damn good, as well. Not in the same vein as the previous ones, but it follows the rule of cool to the max.

 

Demise himself has a design that makes his build-up justice. We keep hearing about this ancient demonic god, and how The Imprisoned is just a "larval" or "hungover" phase of him, and when he shows up... His hair looks like living paint, his scales shine like nothing else in the game, and his dialogue boxes are different than any other. Brilliant. His presence is larger than every mortal you see (including the ancient dragons).

 

The battle with him is epic incarnate, and it makes perfect sense, considering it's a literally divine duel on his terms. I also like that his curse is simply a statement of "Evil will always exist". His existence is a concept, not a life.

 

[Fused King]

OP updated, and all I can say is

 

DAT FI HATE!

*Fi. The Worst ever.

Fi, as already stated muchly, was rather annoying.

It also had its fair share of immensely irritating features, repetitive bosses, Fi, or basic UI irritations like being told about a pickup a million times or being warned about my battery being low.

Fi was the worst thing about the game, unfortunately. A nagging thing that won't go away. If only she was likeable, but she wasn't.

Fi definitely isn't as good a companion as Midna.

It just felt like I was completing minor activities stacked on top of each other to view another Fi-fest. :-(

I HATED Fi

Fuck Fi. Fuck her to hell.

Worst Bits

Fi!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fi, the sword ghost, was really annoying.

Hate Fi, the most annoying sidekick.

 

Edited January 19, 2014 by Fused King

[dazzybee]

Not a different thread?

 

My memory if this was the worst mario game ever, still better than 95% of other plat formers loved the non FLUD levels like I imagine most people will say. The art design was my biggest issue, terrible.

 

I do mean to go back to it though as haven't played it since, wonder how it's aged.

[Jonnas]

I propose creating a new thread for that one, Fused King. This thread's title still reads Skyward Sword, plus you're bound to catch the attention of more people like that.

 

Either way, my thoughts on Sunshine will come later.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jonnas

[Fused King]

Hmmmmm, my idea was to create a big thread with the OP as a central HUB for all the games we've discussed, but I guess a new thread is also possible...

[Dog-amoto]

Can we have two versions of this thread? A spoiler and non spoiler one.