"Only the English should play for England"

[Fierce_LiNk]

This thread is inspired by Jack Wilshere's comments earlier today regarding Adnan Januzaj, a Belgium born footballer who has parents from Kosovo-Albania and also qualifies for Turkey due to his ancestry. There's a slim possibility that he might be able to play for England one day, although he would have to have not played for another country before 2018, which is unlikely, but still possible.

 

My issue with this is what defines "what you are"? Is it your ancestry and heritage, or where you are born? It's also worth noting that this guy hasn't committed his future to any team yet, including Belgium.

 

""The only people who should play for England are English people. If I went to Spain and lived there for five years, I'm not going to play for Spain." - this seems to be the comment that has provoked a lot of discussion. I think it's interesting. It's also again worth pointing out that Germany also have the likes of Lukas Podolski, who is Polish born and moved to Germany when he was 2 and represents them, as well as the likes of Mesut Ozil who is a third generation Turkish-German.

 

What are your views on this one?

[Jon]

To clarify what Wilshere said, he wasn't referring to the likes of your Kevin Pieterson's, Andrew Strauss, etc. Just the whole turning up at any age and staying 5 years to play for the national side.

 

Personally, I'd love to say it's all black and white and you play for where you were born but there's plenty of examples that are a little unfair in that regard. My sister was born in Portsmouth purely because my Mum was posted there by the army. She moved up back to Scotland when my sister was 2 weeks old. She's been raised exactly the same as someone born in this country.

 

To play for the national side should be the ultimate fulfilment of pride, unless you've been raised in that country I can't see how you'd feel like anything other than a fraud by doing it. I don't agree with being able to play for another country because your Grandmother/Grandfather are from there.

[Mr-Paul]

I think it's been blown out of proportion. Every few years the media raises the possibility of "[iNSERT NAME OF FOREIGN BORN PLAYER] COULD PLAY FOR ENGLAND" and nothing ever comes of it. As you said, with Januzaj, if he is good enough to play at international level, he has four more obvious choices of country to play for ahead of England.

 

It's interesting how different sports look at the citizenship debate. Jack's right, never would an English player go to Spain and in five years time become a citizen and hope to play for Spain. But in athletics it's a different matter. It's even common. Bernard Lagat ran for Kenya for years before moving to the USA and representing them (Athletics' rules allow this though, football's don't. Another example - Martina Navratilova)

 

I think the likes of Podolski, Mesut Özil, and then the likes of Mo Farah in athletics, is a different case all together. They grew up in the country they now represent - despite their lineage, they can actually identify as German/English respectively. The same can't be said of Januzaj.

 

So what would my rules be, if I was to select who was eligible to represent England? I think you'd either to have to have English parents/grandparents, or to have spent a certain number of years (five?) before the age of 18 in the country to be eligible. Sure, you can become a British citizen if you live here long enough as an adult, but I don't think that makes you British in nationality, if you get what I mean.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Mr-Paul

[Iun]

I don't give a rats ass who they are or where they come from, can they help us win a tournament?

[Ramar]

It's also again worth pointing out that Germany also have the likes of Lukas Podolski, who is Polish born and moved to Germany when he was 2 and represents them, as well as the likes of Mesut Ozil who is a third generation Turkish-German.

 

Don't think Ozil fits your point to well, three generations clearly by that time makes you where ever you are from. He's German.

 

I don't think Januzaj should play for England, the same way I don't want Arteta or Almunia playing for England (remember when that went around, no one kicked up a fuss over Rio Ferdinand's words).

 

Clearly there's a difference between moving to a country at a young age, be that for family reasons, being a refugee/seeking aid or what ever. Moving to get in an academy of a professional football club does not make you eligible in my opinion.

 

I wouldn't expect our lads Gnabry, Olsson or Eisfeld to want to play for England for example.

 

As for what Jack actually said, he's been caught out by the media. I don't think he's said anything particularly wrong. He's just your typical footballer, not really thought about what he's saying and not articulated his point very well. Then again you never know how much of the interview has been left out, to suit an agenda these days. What's more upsetting is how he thinks England should play a tough tackling thug style of football.

[Charlie]

 

(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

© His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association

 

I agree with all but 4. If you just live in a country for 5 years after turning 18 you are not that nationality and should not be able to turn out for them. It would seem a bit like a 'fake' player playing for your country. The Home Nations Agreement (below) has it right, if you went to school in that country for a certain length of time then you can claim to be of that nationality. I also think that you should go through some sort of testing to prove you know about the country and its history but that will never happen.

 

Moving over to tennis, Greg Rusedski was born in Canada but has a British mother and chose to play for Britain. I can wholly accept that. For him it was the best decision and our funding helped his game more than Canada would have. Laura Robson was born in Australia, lived there for 6 months, then moved to Singapore until aged 6 when they relocated to the UK. She's British, she has an English accent and went to school here her entire life.

 

As for Adnan Januzaj, even if he stays in the country for 5 years and doesn't play for another national team he is ineligible due to the Home Nations Agreement. He would had to have gone to school in the country for a minimum of 5 years before he was considered eligible to play. There is no debate on this matter, he's ineligible.

 

1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

d) He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Charlie

[nekunando]

I'm moving to San Marino for the next five years so I can get a few international games below my belt before it's too late I could probably get in their team

[Rummy]

I don't particularly care for football and only watch when it's national but...I kinda sorta half agree with the lad on this one. Not wholly, but 5 years is a bit wank to be able to call yourself English. I think if you've grown up here/been here for a solid length of time then yeah.

 

EDIT:Basically agree with Charlie's first few sentiments.

[Charlie]

EDIT:Basically agree with Charlie's first few sentiments.

 

What about the rest of my sentiments? :P

[bob]

No need to get sentimental guys.

[Iun]

No need to get sentimental guys.

 

My sentiments exactly.