Fierce_LiNk Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I disagree. We've seen lots of awesome use for it. However, people seem to want this huge massive killer use for it to "justify", but it doesn't need it. It has many awesome, albeit small, uses. It isn't a revolution as they intended, sure, but it's certainly an evolution and I struggle going back to games without it. I can't agree with this. When the controller is as physically large as the console, you expect it to do something. It was obvious from the start that the Wiimote was special and did something unique, same with the DS dual screens. There haven't been that many games that have used the GP in an interesting way, certainly not enough to warrant the price tag. I wouldn't have minded an updated Wiimote one bit. I agree, it is definitely the biggest problem in my eyes in terms of getting people to buy it. The only other thing I can think that would match would be a bit more power may have got more third parties on board, but that would have then pushed the price of the console very very high. It arguably was already a too high price for a Nintendo console, it's crazy to me how people paid £350/£400 for the PS4/XBO after the failure of the PS3 at that price - I'd never spend that much on a console personally, but maybe that's just me! The PS4 cost just over a hundred quid more than the WiiU at launch, I believe. It is a lot, I paid £199 for my WiiU and £299 for the PS4. Looking back, I feel that I overpaid for the WiiU and got a good deal on the PS4 considering that it also comes with a 3D blu ray player built into it. In terms of the value for money, there's some insanely good deals out there at the moment for the One and PS4.
Goron_3 Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 First party wise, Nintendo's output has been the best it has been in such a condensed period in years. I disagree on hardware, considering how before this gen, it was mostly the weakest one that came out on top. I never spoke about the quality of it. Where did you get that from? Their quality has been great, but the games have virtually no appeal. Nothing on it sells systems. You seem to be implying that I was talking about hardware specs? I never said this, please stop putting words in my mouth. Edit. We've had this bloody discussion 10x in the past, jesus christ @Serebii.
Zechs Merquise Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 The three problems: MARKETING: No one knew quite what it was, the marketing was confusing and there wasn't enough of it. Was it a tablet, a new controller for the Wii or a whole new console? It just was marketed like the Wii and DS. The ads were few and far between and they weren't fronted by celebs or the clean and white ads from the Wii/DS era which were so recognisable. I remember the ads being quite dark and gloomy, with non-de-script actors, bad voice overs and nothing that jumped out. PRICE: £300 was too expensive for the Wii crowd and too much for the Nintendo audience. It was beyond the impulse buy of the Wii pricing. £179.99 with a game was perfect. No one struggled to find that money, but £300 seems steep, it's a serious consideration. I'm more than happy to go out after pay day and drop £180 on something I want, but start pushing £300 and it's a more difficult decision, couple the fact that the cheaper unit went without a game, it's a tough call. ACCESSIBILITY: The Wii and DS were accessible to everyone. The control interface simplified gaming and made it understandable to people who weren't typically gamers. The Gamepad is confusing from both a gameplay and marketing perspective. When you picked up the Wii Remote, you instinctively knew what to do with it. Every time the Gamepad was brought into play, it had to tell you how to hold it, what to do with it and even where to look when you played! Hardly something to reach out to the masses. However, the argument that the console is somehow underpowered and the consumer base is so well read and bothered over this issue is nonsense. If consumers cared so much about performance and spec lists Apple wouldn't sell a single phone at the price they charge. The shit-tier specs of the iPhone 6 are worse than those of the leading Android and Windows Phone devices by a mile! The public still lap them up like sheep. In essence, Nintendo literally tore up all the good they did with the Wii. They went from an affordable, well marketed and advertised console that was accessible to all and fun and involving to non-gamers to a confusing, comparatively pricey console that was poorly marketed, under advertised and would seem wholly unapproachable to the swarms of people that loved Wii Sports, Wii Fit and the classic Nintendo franchises that sold tens of millions of units on the Wii.
Rummy Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 It's been 2 and a half years and we're still waiting to see what the GamePad actually does. The controller has killed the machine, tbh. Nintendo could have gone for a cheaper system from the start had the GamePad not been there or they could have gone with a machine that was on par with the others. In part I certainly feel like I bought a big chunk of the console on promises I haven't seen. Interesting uses of the gamepad for gameplay, asymmetrical gameplay titles, good and robust online integration on par with other systems. I just didn't get it. I've got lots of titles on my WiiU but they aren't really what I bought it for - I don't feel I got enough of what I *did* buy it for. Another chunk of that was actually Smash, and that's been good but not quite as great as I'd hoped for either.
Sheikah Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 First party wise, Nintendo's output has been the best it has been in such a condensed period in years. I disagree on hardware, considering how before this gen, it was mostly the weakest one that came out on top. They're not very interesting though. I'm looking at Smash 4, Mario Kart 8, New Super Mario 3D World, NSMB, Pikmin. You'd be hard pushed to say a bad word about them, but at the same time it's all old ground. It's not really surprising they don't really resonate with most gamers these days.
Mr-Paul Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 The PS4 cost just over a hundred quid more than the WiiU at launch, I believe. It is a lot, I paid £199 for my WiiU and £299 for the PS4. Looking back, I feel that I overpaid for the WiiU and got a good deal on the PS4 considering that it also comes with a 3D blu ray player built into it. In terms of the value for money, there's some insanely good deals out there at the moment for the One and PS4. I guess price/value really comes down to your own preferences, your personal budget thresholds and how much use you get out of something. Personally, £199 including a game is probably my max for a games console - I already have a blu-ray player/Sky+HD/Netflix/Chromecast so those extra capabilities don't mean a lot to me, although they are definitely nice features to have. £199 is what I paid for my original 3DS with a game, it's what I paid for my Wii U with a game, and what I paid for my PS3 with two games! I'll probably get one of the other consoles at some point, but right now, they don't feel like good value for me personally, especially as there isn't anything i'm desperate to play on them yet.
liger05 Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 However, the argument that the console is somehow underpowered and the consumer base is so well read and bothered over this issue is nonsense. If consumers cared so much about performance and spec lists Apple wouldn't sell a single phone at the price they charge. The shit-tier specs of the iPhone 6 are worse than those of the leading Android and Windows Phone devices by a mile! The public still lap them up like sheep. People care. They may not care about every crunching number but when they buy a console they still care about the graphics on offer.
Sheikah Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 However, the argument that the console is somehow underpowered and the consumer base is so well read and bothered over this issue is nonsense. If consumers cared so much about performance and spec lists Apple wouldn't sell a single phone at the price they charge. The shit-tier specs of the iPhone 6 are worse than those of the leading Android and Windows Phone devices by a mile! The public still lap them up like sheep. Comparing it to phones, really? Nearly all games (and certainly the most popular ones) can be run on most modern phones regardless of spec. Nintendo's Wii U cannot run new games that people want to play, or where it can, at a considerably lower level of performance. And why would people settle for what they had 7-8 years ago? Compare it to phones in this way instead; in 2007 they were selling the original iPhone. A hunking pile of shit by today's standards. But it would be like going and buying that instead of today's model, for all intents and purposes (even the dates match up). Who would do that? Nobody! Also with regards to why it's a bad comparison; a phone is also a fashion accessory, in the case of the iPhone. It's something you're seen with. And it does more than play games. Some people buy for those reasons; reasons that don't apply in the case of a Wii U. Wii U failed on specs, features and the fact most people knew the franchises they already loved would appear on the next gen Sony / MS formats (and loyalty to the game downloads/friends lists they had accumulated). Marketing of Wii U sucked but it ultimately failed on so many levels that it wouldn't have mattered a jot.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I guess price/value really comes down to your own preferences, your personal budget thresholds and how much use you get out of something. Personally, £199 including a game is probably my max for a games console - I already have a blu-ray player/Sky+HD/Netflix/Chromecast so those extra capabilities don't mean a lot to me, although they are definitely nice features to have. £199 is what I paid for my original 3DS with a game, it's what I paid for my Wii U with a game, and what I paid for my PS3 with two games! I'll probably get one of the other consoles at some point, but right now, they don't feel like good value for me personally, especially as there isn't anything i'm desperate to play on them yet. It does come down to preference. The longer you wait, the better the deals will be. We're never going to get a system as cheap as the GameCube again which is a shame as that was a fantastic price at launch! For me, I don't mind paying a bit extra if I'm certain that there is a future to it. There's a nice bit of security knowing that you've got a gaming console that will get at least 6 or 7 years worth of games coming to it.
Wii Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 The PS4 cost just over a hundred quid more than the WiiU at launch, I believe. It is a lot, I paid £199 for my WiiU and £299 for the PS4. Looking back, I feel that I overpaid for the WiiU and got a good deal on the PS4 considering that it also comes with a 3D blu ray player built into it. In terms of the value for money, there's some insanely good deals out there at the moment for the One and PS4. The price difference was only £50 (£300 versus £350) but when consider the differences under the hoods, the 3D blu ray player, the guarantee of 3rd party support and a long life cycle then £50 doesn't seem like much more to pay. The Wii U was a disaster even before it launched. The list of mistakes was huge, I said before it released that it was probably going to fail. If you were a Sony or Microsoft spy within Nintendo you couldn't have sabotaged the Wii U any worse than they did themselves.
Ronnie Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I reckon £129.99 with Nintendoland or ZombiU (for a Gamepad showcase) would be reasonable would it not? I honestly believe that rising above that it's not worth it. Have them lose money with every console, great idea! It's a great console, with a great and ever growing library of first party games. £199 is about right.
Kav Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Have them lose money with every console, great idea! It's a great console, with a great and ever growing library of first party games. £199 is about right. Given that they've got absolutely billions of cash in reserves, yes, it is a great idea. They can afford to do so and at least if they did then it'd start pulling bigger numbers in sales... at least then Nintendo would be recognised as a console seller again! If they started shifting units then the positive press it'd gain them would bode well for future consoles. Instead they've become forgettable!
Ronnie Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Given that they've got absolutely billions of cash in reserves, yes, it is a great idea. They can afford to do so and at least if they did then it'd start pulling bigger numbers in sales... at least then Nintendo would be recognised as a console seller again! If they started shifting units then the positive press it'd gain them would bode well for future consoles.Instead they've become forgettable! What absolute rubbish. Make a big loss with every console, plunge their financials back into the red (prompting more "Nintendo in decline" articles), but it's ok because they'd "be recognised as a console seller" again. Gotcha. Write a letter to Nintendo suggesting they start selling the Wii U at £130, you obviously know more about how to run a business than they do.
Wii Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Nintendo should be doing more to save the Wii U. Do something, advertise, price drop, 3rd party exclusives, anything. I really do think the new console will launch next Christmas and for them to just let the Wii U die and be seen to actively do nothing to save it and then expect people to fork out another few hundred pounds on a new console? Nintendo will be in for even greater rude awakenings. They're damaging their brand and reputation.
somme Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 People say Nintendo would be crazy to lower the price of the Wii U as they'd lose loads of money. Well, how much money are they making with them sitting on shelves or in warehouses? I definitely feel I overspent on the WiiU, especially as it's basically a machine for playing Mario Kart and nothing else, at least for me. I really won't miss the gamepad if they ditch it next time around.
Ronnie Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I really do think the new console will launch next Christmas and for them to just let the Wii U die and be seen to actively do nothing to save it and then expect people to fork out another few hundred pounds on a new console? Nintendo will be in for even greater rude awakenings. They're damaging their brand and reputation. You keep saying Nintendo are letting the Wii U die. Yoshi, Splatoon, Kirby, Mario Maker, X, Zelda, Starfox, Smash DLC, Mario Kart DLC, amiibo integration and whatever new games they announce at E3 prove you very very wrong.
Kav Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 What absolute rubbish. Make a big loss with every console, plunge their financials back into the red (prompting more "Nintendo in decline" articles), but it's ok because they'd "be recognised as a console seller" again. Gotcha. Write a letter to Nintendo suggesting they start selling the Wii U at £130, you obviously know more about how to run a business than they do. In all honesty, I don't give a fuck about their business, I'm just making a suggestion that might get their dead in the water console selling based on what I think the console is worth at max.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 You keep saying Nintendo are letting the Wii U die. Yoshi, Splatoon, Kirby, Mario Maker, X, Zelda, Starfox, Smash DLC, Mario Kart DLC, amiibo integration and whatever new games they announce at E3 prove you very very wrong. You've basically listed everything that's coming out for the rest of the year, with the exception of whatever they possibly might show at E3. Nintendo have to go into overdrive because they're the only ones really supporting the system; it's not sustainable for the long term.
Zechs Merquise Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Comparing it to phones, really? Nearly all games (and certainly the most popular ones) can be run on most modern phones regardless of spec. Nintendo's Wii U cannot run new games that people want to play, or where it can, at a considerably lower level of performance. And why would people settle for what they had 7-8 years ago? Compare it to phones in this way instead; in 2007 they were selling the original iPhone. A hunking pile of shit by today's standards. But it would be like going and buying that instead of today's model, for all intents and purposes (even the dates match up). Who would do that? Nobody! Also with regards to why it's a bad comparison; a phone is also a fashion accessory, in the case of the iPhone. It's something you're seen with. And it does more than play games. Some people buy for those reasons; reasons that don't apply in the case of a Wii U. Wii U failed on specs, features and the fact most people knew the franchises they already loved would appear on the next gen Sony / MS formats (and loyalty to the game downloads/friends lists they had accumulated). Marketing of Wii U sucked but it ultimately failed on so many levels that it wouldn't have mattered a jot. You're clearly either not reading the post or misinterpreting it on purpose. It's illustrative of what marketing can do to boost sales of a product. iPhones didn't just become 'cool' and a 'fashion icon', they were marketed as such. Apple became a cool brand due to its marketing and advertising campaigns. Hence, an iPhone with comparably poor specs, a propensity to shatter when dropped from the smallest of heights - yet a price tag that exceeds that of almost any other device on the market - sells more than any other phone. That's the power of marketing. The Gamecube also failed - yet that had a library of cutting edge technology that was arguably the best that generation. From Rogue Squadron and Wave Race on day one right through to Resident Evil 4 and Twilight Princess in it's later years, the GC had a great library and was priced competitively. Yet it failed. This is marketing. Once a company creates the right 'buzz' around a product it will succeed - or has a much higher chance of success. Nintendo's adverts once featured Nicole Kidman, Ant & Dec and the Gladiators. They were on during prime time TV - Saturday night viewing like X-Factor, Friday night comedy like Peep Show, they even sponsored shows. The Wii U had NONE of that. That lack of marketing push was a major let down. People didn't know the system was out and those who did didn't know what it was! That's all a marketing miscommunication. But stop trying to twist my points - I also clearly said that both the focus of the system, its lack of accessibility and its price were all major issues too.
Ronnie Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 In all honesty, I don't give a fuck about their business, I'm just making a suggestion that might get their dead in the water console selling based on what I think the console is worth at max. Great insight there then. Why not just suggest they sell Wii U's for a fiver, that'll have them fly off the shelves as well, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
Kav Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Great insight there then. Why not just suggest they sell Wii U's for a fiver, that'll have them fly off the shelves as well, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. At the rate they're selling they should pay people to take them! I was simply saying a price that I feel the console is worth... and is around an impulse-buy figure.
Zechs Merquise Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Great insight there then. Why not just suggest they sell Wii U's for a fiver, that'll have them fly off the shelves as well, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Kav is actually making a reasonable point - one of the Wii's strength was it was in the impulse buy range. At £179.99 with a game, it was a steal! You would literally see people walking out of Tesco with one as part of their weekly shop. Nintendo had hit the mainstream and their product was instantly recognisable and affordable. The Wii U was always just out of that impulse buy range, and without a game it was quite pricey. I'm obviously not saying they should give the Wii U away. But if you look at the way Sony trounced the Saturn and the XBO, it's no coincidence that in both cases the system was unveiled after their competitor's system and at a $100 less! That's a major win. Whilst I also acknowledge that Nintendo can't afford to make the sizeable losses Sony and MS can, they also have to be realistic and assess that the Wii U wouldn't have the same initial 'grab and buy' appeal that the Wii did.
nekunando Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 When you picked up the Wii Remote, you instinctively knew what to do with it.. I mostly agree, and I do love the Wii Remote, but my big brother has been gaming for as long as I have and if he couldn't figure out how to play a particular game, such as Pro Evolution Soccer, he'd start waggling the remote and nunchuk all over the place as if that was going to solve everything
Sheikah Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) You're clearly either not reading the post or misinterpreting it on purpose. It's illustrative of what marketing can do to boost sales of a product. iPhones didn't just become 'cool' and a 'fashion icon', they were marketed as such. Apple became a cool brand due to its marketing and advertising campaigns. Hence, an iPhone with comparably poor specs, a propensity to shatter when dropped from the smallest of heights - yet a price tag that exceeds that of almost any other device on the market - sells more than any other phone. That's the power of marketing. Hang on a bleeding minute. I misinterpreted that you were arguing 'power isn't important' by using phones as a comparison? You CLEARLY just argued that power is not one of the Wii U's issues by using the example of phones. What exactly am I misinterpreting, Zechs? You must have known when you made the point that there is almost no comparison - phones are bought for different reasons, one of which is the fashion element. You don't carry a Wii U around, and games don't exactly get much better on the higher spec phones. Tell me, how did I misinterpret this? I'll put it here again for you: However, the argument that the console is somehow underpowered and the consumer base is so well read and bothered over this issue is nonsense. If consumers cared so much about performance and spec lists Apple wouldn't sell a single phone at the price they charge. The shit-tier specs of the iPhone 6 are worse than those of the leading Android and Windows Phone devices by a mile! The public still lap them up like sheep. Edited April 14, 2015 by Sheikah
Ronnie Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 At the rate they're selling they should pay people to take them! I was simply saying a price that I feel the console is worth... and is around an impulse-buy figure. Yes a whopping 1 million less units sold than Xbox One. If you think the Wii U is worth £130 then you're tighter than Wii.
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